"Hundreds of herbal Medicines Off the Market in European Union Today"

KathiM

John23 said:

Kathi -

Re:
”….Now, John, before you quote only part *smile*….
….if certain 'herbals' are taken, it can be deadly…..”<\i>

Absolutely right of course! (Did I shock you?)

Although it's true that many herbs were the basis for western meds,
that’s where the similarity stops.

In Western Medicine, manufactured drugs are used to take away
only the symptom(s) of an underlying problem .

With Traditional Chinese Medicine, the Herbs (natural drugs)
and/or acupuncture are used to energize whatever organ isn't
working properly, fixing the underlying problem. Once that is
accomplished, the symptoms of the malfunctioning system are gone.

Most people can’t wait, so they take a quick-acting pill to get rid
of the symptoms, and get back to work.

The symptoms may be gone, but the problem isn’t, and it will
eventually produce a worse problem with worse symptoms.

Can herbs kill? Water can kill. If I have a problem, I worry more
about taking a drug for it, since -all- drugs have side effects and
interactions; herbs (for the most part) do not.

Yes, there have been problems reported with herbs like St.John's wart,
etc., but that can occur when people take herbs without knowing fully
what the herbs are capable of doing. That's the real problem; people
are not interested in learning about what they are about to undertake.

When we do something blindly, we will suffer the consequences
sooner or later; It's no different with OTC medicine.

Some people don't read instructions with over-the-counter medicine,
but that doesn't make the medicine bad, or cause it to be regulated.

Tylenol is a good example. The manufacturer tells us not to take
it for more than ten consecutive days. Too much of it can cause
serious liver and renal problems.

How many actually heed that warning? The company's caveat,
of: "only do so if your physician tells you to", is a great CYA move.
Your attorneys will fight both your physician and Tylenol, but
Tylenol will win, since they did inform you of the safe dosage limit.

TCM herbal concoctions are never prescribed beyond the time
the herbal concoction resolves the problem.

I took herbs for AF, and after about 9 months my AF was gone.
I have not taken herbs for AF since it was cured! With TCM,
herbs are not prescribed for a steady, life-time diet, as Western
Medicine's drugs are.

So the claims made that "herbs cause problems", is ill founded.
They don't cause problems if we take them they way they were
intended to be taken; not much different with Tylenol, right?

Both of my oncologists said that if I did chemo, I could not take any
herbal compounds to relieve any side effects of the chemo. Instead
they both said they would prescribe other medications to offset
the side effects.

It was interesting to recently read, that “chemo brain” and other
neurological problems may be caused by the interaction of the
drugs used to offset the side effects of the chemo.

The studies indicated that the interactions of the drugs appeared
to cause some chemicals to cross the “blood/brain barrier”.

No herbs; not safe? I prefer to pick my poison, thank you.

Getting back to topic…..

Individuals should have the freedom to choose their own remedies.
What “right” does any government have, to dictate an individual’s
choice of pharmaceutical?

There are basic human rights involved that no entity should encroach;
the right to choose what may bring you good health, is only one.

This is another reason why this website, and its allowance of all
information is important!. Anyone can gather enough data here
to make an informed decision that may well save their life!

It isn’t the “herbs” at fault, it’s the refusal of the industry to accept
the use of herbal compounds instead of their money-making, factory
produced chemicals. The cancer industry lobbies for what they want,
and they use donations and profits for their fight.

Our marches, fund raising events, and all donated funds would be
better off donated to the ones involved that are seeking a real cure,
instead of an industry that is profiting from the lack of a real cure.

That's my two cents, and a few million screen pixels worth
of rant. I'll stop now, I'm giving me a headache.

(and besides, I've probably offended a few million readers by now)

Stay well; think “cured”,

John

I think you made the point well....
(Did I shock you?).

I believe that we can be our own worst enemy...as you pointed out, anything taken other than how it was intended is what gets us into trouble.

I have no passionate side in this, actually. Although, I will tell you that when I visited China, one of our 'stops' was to a 'clinic' where the doctors would on-the-spot diagnose, and then recommend a combo of herbs for treatment. The problem? The total cost was over $200 per month...I found myself wondering how the (at that point) poor people of China could afford that....So, there can be snake oil salesmen on every side of the coin....

In the final analysis, we need to accept that we all have different opinions. Can I tell you why, with 'traditional' chemo/rads/surgery that I survived 6 years so far, instead of 6 months like was suggested, and that there are other warriors that have fallen in the mean time? Nope. I have my theories, but I am no doctor. I am a computer consultant. So, I pick the people for the job that I feel the most trust in, and go from there.

I envy you, John. You have a passion in this! I, sadly, do not....

Hugs, Kathi

John23

KathiM said:

I think you made the point well....
(Did I shock you?).

I believe that we can be our own worst enemy...as you pointed out, anything taken other than how it was intended is what gets us into trouble.

I have no passionate side in this, actually. Although, I will tell you that when I visited China, one of our 'stops' was to a 'clinic' where the doctors would on-the-spot diagnose, and then recommend a combo of herbs for treatment. The problem? The total cost was over $200 per month...I found myself wondering how the (at that point) poor people of China could afford that....So, there can be snake oil salesmen on every side of the coin....

In the final analysis, we need to accept that we all have different opinions. Can I tell you why, with 'traditional' chemo/rads/surgery that I survived 6 years so far, instead of 6 months like was suggested, and that there are other warriors that have fallen in the mean time? Nope. I have my theories, but I am no doctor. I am a computer consultant. So, I pick the people for the job that I feel the most trust in, and go from there.

I envy you, John. You have a passion in this! I, sadly, do not....

Hugs, Kathi

Kathi -

Computer consultant!

Hey, when I vacuum the keyboard of all the crap our parrot
tosses into my area, I end up having to pick the keys out of
the vacuum! dometimes if ejds up likr tgis. Is there an easier way?

Re:
"Can I tell you why, with 'traditional' chemo/rads/surgery that I
survived 6 years so far, instead of 6 months like was suggested,
and that there are other warriors that have fallen in the mean
time? Nope. I have my theories, but I am no doctor. "

Ya' know kid.... it's funny you mention this. I was told I had
about the same amount of time as you, back in 2006, and my
observations are the same!

I've had two stage one cancer guys (friends) die within two years
of diagnosis, that were re-staged as a late four prior to leaving...

One took chemo, and the other insisted that his herbalist gal
knew everything about everything. Both were upset about
getting worse, while I was (what I thought) a stage 3c, and
remained in good health. (I just recently found out that I've
been a stage four since 2006, not 3c).

So I'm alive. Big deal. It doesn't "prove" that imported herbs
work, any more than your situation "proves" that chemo worked.

That's why I don't make any claims, just suggestions.... and hopefully
limited to those that may have been told that Western Medicine
has run it's course, and that they've reached their end point.

There is always something else to try. It's unfortunate, that
chemo can take so much out of a person, that nothing else
will fix the too weakened soul, but the choice is still there.
Who knows if it'd be too late?

I was originally told that 30% of cancer hostages live 5 years
or more, even if they do nothing after surgery. The real figure
is 26%. Of those that do chemo after surgery, the % goes way
up to 28%. But that doesn't factor in second cancers, permanent
neurological problems,etc, ad infinitum... Some causing death
that is reported as "cancer related". It wouldn't be "cancer related"
if chemo wasn't involved, but hey....

On the other hand, Phil has some really fantastic oncologists, and if
it weren't for his chemo, he may not have lasted 7 or so years.
They apparently adjust the chemicals to meet his specific needs,
and do so with great care, avoiding major problems.

How often do we find great oncologists? It as difficult to find
great TCM practitioners!

So no, neither of us can "prove" one method is better than
the other. The point I always try to make (without causing
a rectal incident), is that no-one should limit themselves to
only one health science; there are indeed other things to
try that may just work for them.

I hate seeing people getting so damned sick, and eventually
dying, because they won't at least try something other than
the mainstream medicine.

There's so much out here that might be of value, why deny
one's self to life?

Nice to meet you Kath.....

Stay well !!

John

KathiM

John23 said:

Kathi -

Computer consultant!

Hey, when I vacuum the keyboard of all the crap our parrot
tosses into my area, I end up having to pick the keys out of
the vacuum! dometimes if ejds up likr tgis. Is there an easier way?

Re:
"Can I tell you why, with 'traditional' chemo/rads/surgery that I
survived 6 years so far, instead of 6 months like was suggested,
and that there are other warriors that have fallen in the mean
time? Nope. I have my theories, but I am no doctor. "

Ya' know kid.... it's funny you mention this. I was told I had
about the same amount of time as you, back in 2006, and my
observations are the same!

I've had two stage one cancer guys (friends) die within two years
of diagnosis, that were re-staged as a late four prior to leaving...

One took chemo, and the other insisted that his herbalist gal
knew everything about everything. Both were upset about
getting worse, while I was (what I thought) a stage 3c, and
remained in good health. (I just recently found out that I've
been a stage four since 2006, not 3c).

So I'm alive. Big deal. It doesn't "prove" that imported herbs
work, any more than your situation "proves" that chemo worked.

That's why I don't make any claims, just suggestions.... and hopefully
limited to those that may have been told that Western Medicine
has run it's course, and that they've reached their end point.

There is always something else to try. It's unfortunate, that
chemo can take so much out of a person, that nothing else
will fix the too weakened soul, but the choice is still there.
Who knows if it'd be too late?

I was originally told that 30% of cancer hostages live 5 years
or more, even if they do nothing after surgery. The real figure
is 26%. Of those that do chemo after surgery, the % goes way
up to 28%. But that doesn't factor in second cancers, permanent
neurological problems,etc, ad infinitum... Some causing death
that is reported as "cancer related". It wouldn't be "cancer related"
if chemo wasn't involved, but hey....

On the other hand, Phil has some really fantastic oncologists, and if
it weren't for his chemo, he may not have lasted 7 or so years.
They apparently adjust the chemicals to meet his specific needs,
and do so with great care, avoiding major problems.

How often do we find great oncologists? It as difficult to find
great TCM practitioners!

So no, neither of us can "prove" one method is better than
the other. The point I always try to make (without causing
a rectal incident), is that no-one should limit themselves to
only one health science; there are indeed other things to
try that may just work for them.

I hate seeing people getting so damned sick, and eventually
dying, because they won't at least try something other than
the mainstream medicine.

There's so much out here that might be of value, why deny
one's self to life?

Nice to meet you Kath.....

Stay well !!

John

As far as the keyboard.....
When I have a client with a workstation that is messy (if there are cracker crumbs or liquids spilt, etc...*smile*) I suggest buying a flexible plastic cover for the keyboard. It saves wear and tear on the keys, as well. Because these things are a very soft plastic, but durable, you may find an adjustment to the pressure on the keys is necessary...but my one person kept spilling coffee on her keyboard, and the company was tired of continually supplying new ones. She adjusted within a week, and I showed her how to take it off so she could rinse in the sink when she spilled....

I LOVE your example of what happens! If you go this route, you might invest in a new keyboard first...these keys should not be coming off...I used to clean them by turning them sideways, and tapping (lightly!) them against the inside of a plastic wastecan. This got most of the stuff. If you want to go REAL fancy, there are 'low suction mini vaccums' made just for computers...

As far as your last comment, "There's so much out...." do you mind if I steal it? I am now lecturing to hospice (!?) staff as to how to handle certain situations...and this is the best comment to describe what I have done now with my life...living in 2 countries, traveling, etc!

Nice to meet you, too, John! I am planning a return trip to China. Or maybe other parts of Asia...I find a quiet calm in many places there.

Hugs, Kathi

John23

KathiM said:

As far as the keyboard.....
When I have a client with a workstation that is messy (if there are cracker crumbs or liquids spilt, etc...*smile*) I suggest buying a flexible plastic cover for the keyboard. It saves wear and tear on the keys, as well. Because these things are a very soft plastic, but durable, you may find an adjustment to the pressure on the keys is necessary...but my one person kept spilling coffee on her keyboard, and the company was tired of continually supplying new ones. She adjusted within a week, and I showed her how to take it off so she could rinse in the sink when she spilled....

I LOVE your example of what happens! If you go this route, you might invest in a new keyboard first...these keys should not be coming off...I used to clean them by turning them sideways, and tapping (lightly!) them against the inside of a plastic wastecan. This got most of the stuff. If you want to go REAL fancy, there are 'low suction mini vaccums' made just for computers...

As far as your last comment, "There's so much out...." do you mind if I steal it? I am now lecturing to hospice (!?) staff as to how to handle certain situations...and this is the best comment to describe what I have done now with my life...living in 2 countries, traveling, etc!

Nice to meet you, too, John! I am planning a return trip to China. Or maybe other parts of Asia...I find a quiet calm in many places there.

Hugs, Kathi

Kathi -

Re:
"As far as your last comment, "There's so much out...." do you mind if I steal it?"

It isn't stealing after I receive your check!

Seriously, not only would I -not- mind, I would feel tremendously honored!

Unless.... unless you're just using it to get a laugh? It's not often that anyone
quotes me without using it to get a laugh. </self pity>

(I also accept PayPal, btw)

Have fun in Asia. I never went there, but wish I could. Now that
I think about it, I never went to Delaware either...

Let us all know what's going on over there, ok? See if everything
they sell there is made in America. I heard about that, but would
like to know for sure.

Stay well.

John