Anyone able to avoid PEG and feeding tube?
Comments
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Hi Shorecatshorecat99 said:Hi Brian
I just joined the site looking for info on that subject. I'm in week 5 of 7 weeks treatment and opted not to get the tube. It seemed too unnatural for me and I worried about risk of infection etc. My radiation doc said as long as I can take stuff orally, he agreed with my decision as it would keep my throat muscles working correctly with less chance of long term problems in that area. Started at 180 lbs and am now at 165. In the beginning, taste was just "going away" so I still ate regularly. Later, taste changed to none, saliva turned to paste and yet later, taste changed to disgusting with most things I was familiar with, which made me not want to eat or drink. At my lowest point, I felt dizzy when getting up quick and knew I pushed it too far. But that was 2 days ago and it was sort of a kick in the head! I have increased my intake and the weight stabilized over the 2 days and hopefully will increase now. I had to keep looking and trying different things and I found the following to be most tolerable. It seems the plainer the better and nothing too hot either. Light soups like chicken or potato or tomato.. Farina or cream of wheat. Also, strawberry powder in milk to which I sometimes add protein powder. Many people would probably prefer chocolate but strawberry is my preference. I can actually taste that somewhat still. Premixed protein drinks seem to promote more pasty saliva and don't taste good at all to me but I am forcing 1 or 2 a day as they do have the nutritian we need and I stocked up on many of them in the beginning based on a doctor's advise. So a little is pleasant, a little disgusting but I do have high hopes to make it through without the tube. Best of luck in whichever way you decide to go.
Glad to hear you are doing so well, keep up the good work and keep us posted on how you are doing. Also welcome to the family here on CSN my friend.
All the best too you
Hondo0 -
Hey jayneJayneday said:Hi
I have only just been
Hi
I have only just been told im having cisplatin and radiotherapy for scc in nasal cavity and hard palate. I havent been told anything about a peg tube or feeding and suspect this is going to be a problem? Brian did you opt for it and how is the treatment going?
Any tips on coping with the IMRT and chemo would be appreciated
Thanks
Jayne uk
I just finished week two. I'd say that the latter part of this last week has been the worst. While I don't read similar side effects from others, my worst has been how my tongue feels. That being said, I have always eaten six meals a day and have been able to continue to do so. Of course, I have many more Protien shakes than I used to and the enjoyment of eating is gone for the time being. So far I've been able to work out every morning and continue to go to work.
Its definitely no fun, but you'll get through and be better for it. Good luck on your treatment and I'd love to hear how it goes.
Brian0 -
Hey jayneJayneday said:Hi
I have only just been
Hi
I have only just been told im having cisplatin and radiotherapy for scc in nasal cavity and hard palate. I havent been told anything about a peg tube or feeding and suspect this is going to be a problem? Brian did you opt for it and how is the treatment going?
Any tips on coping with the IMRT and chemo would be appreciated
Thanks
Jayne uk
I just finished week two. I'd say that the latter part of this last week has been the worst. While I don't read similar side effects from others, my worst has been how my tongue feels. That being said, I have always eaten six meals a day and have been able to continue to do so. Of course, I have many more Protien shakes than I used to and the enjoyment of eating is gone for the time being. So far I've been able to work out every morning and continue to go to work.
Its definitely no fun, but you'll get through and be better for it. Good luck on your treatment and I'd love to hear how it goes.
Brian0 -
PEG tube
Hi,
I'm new to this listing. Wish I'd found you all sooner!
I'm now almost 3 months out of treatment (7 weeks radiation/chemo, modified radical neck surgery). I'm almost 50, and went through it without a feeding tube, but if I had to do it over again, I would have one placed prior to treatment (if you don't need it, don't use it, but at least it's available if you find you do need it). I did OK until the last two weeks of radiation (the 3 weeks after treatments stopped were actually my worst weeks, as far as pain and swallowing). I got so that I was only able to get about 350 calories/day down (NOT enough!!!). Rather than place a feeding tube so close to the end of my treatments, my doctors had me go in for daily IV fluids/vitamins/minerals for almost two weeks, which did help a lot, but I still wasn't getting the calories I really needed. I felt extremely weak, and lost about 34 lbs. (I had been training for a marathon when I was diagnosed, so my doctors felt I was strong enough to do it without a feeding tube. Plus, they wanted to preserve my swallowing function). My feeling is that I could have still preserved my swallowing by forcing myself to drink, but that one needs proper nourishment to go through this. It was tough for me at the end, but I'm happy to say it does get much better. My recent PET CT was clear, I'm back to work part time, back to easy jogging, and my taste is coming back, and my swallowing is fine (though still having trouble putting on weight).
Also, there is a high calorie, weight gainer shake called "Substi-meal" that can be ordered from a company called Supplimed (online). The shakes are almost 700 calories each (and the texture is way better than Ensure!).The Substi-meal shakes have been life savers for me, as I'm still having trouble putting my weight back on. Wish I'd discovered that product during my treatments, as I might have been able to get more calories down.
Good luck to you! It feels great when you finally finish and start feeling better. It's all worth it!0 -
No Peg
I had a mild (almost Stage 1) tumor of the larynx. I opted for NOT using a PEG. I lost only three pounds. I was on a short-acting liquid narcotic, which I took every 4 hours around the clock. I set an alarm to take the med throughout the night. Twenty minutes after I took the med, I was able to eat/drink for about an hour.
After that hour, I did not even swallow for 3 hours. I spit into a tissue. This gave me about 3 almost pain-free hours out of every 4. I found that Recola Cherry Sugar-Free Cough Drops a great help. Normally, I would not choose cherry; but during and after radiation it was the only flavor that helped.
Like many others, the last week and the first three weeks after radiation were the worse. Also you will need to find shirts with very loose necks.
If I need neck radiation again, I would again try to maintain my weight without a PEG. However, I would certainly opt for the PEG, once I found I could not eat. I would not let my weight drop a dangerous amount. We all need our nutrition to get through this.0 -
Done but far from doneadventurebob said:Welcome Shorecat
Glad you found us. Lots of experience and kindness here. Sounds like you're doing really well. Stick around and let us know how it goes. Keep the calories rolling in.
Bob
Finished actual treatments - Radiation this past Wednesday and Chemo the Wednesday before. Both docs said they are surprised how well I made it through although I must say, I may seem ok on the outside but things seem to be worse to me inside. I am actually getting down less and less. Ensures which I was able to force down before, burn the throat going down and my body actually rejected some I had the other morning with heaving it back up in a few minutes. Juice, soda, and most other drinks also burn going down or end up drying me up in a major way. Even bottled water has a nasty taste and I shy away from that. Fresh milk, mixed with strawberry powder or malt mix was one of the last things I enjoyed. Now it tastes like old sour milk but I still force some when I can. Anything more than fluid, like cream of wheat, makes me feel sick actually "in the stomach" so don't know if the tube would have been different in that respect. Had 6 spoonfuls today but pretty much opted to pass out on the couch and not use energy rather than eat more. So I'm back, looking for more suggestions as I'm having company next weekend and need to get some stuff in order but without intake, I can't put out... But most thoughts of food/drink make me mentally sick before trying now where in the past, I'd at least try a spoon of this or that. So,,, any more suggestions are appreciated.0 -
no tube here!
I was really opposed to doing a tube, just wasn't for me. My docs, in particular my chemo doc, was supportive. I was upfront about my opposition to it. I did lose a ton of weight, but I was at LEAST 30 pounds overweight (40 is probably more accurate) to begin with, so I figured I had a "cushion." Even with losing 45-50 pounds, my lowest weight was still in a healthy range for my height and frame.
So now, I'm a lean, mean, rockin' machine. It can definitely be done if you want it bad enough and you don't have too much to deal with from surgery or other problems (like nausea, which I never had). I did about 8 weeks of both chemo and radiation. You can always try and if it gets to be be too bad, switch over.0 -
BriankrashpadBrianKrashpad said:no tube here!
I was really opposed to doing a tube, just wasn't for me. My docs, in particular my chemo doc, was supportive. I was upfront about my opposition to it. I did lose a ton of weight, but I was at LEAST 30 pounds overweight (40 is probably more accurate) to begin with, so I figured I had a "cushion." Even with losing 45-50 pounds, my lowest weight was still in a healthy range for my height and frame.
So now, I'm a lean, mean, rockin' machine. It can definitely be done if you want it bad enough and you don't have too much to deal with from surgery or other problems (like nausea, which I never had). I did about 8 weeks of both chemo and radiation. You can always try and if it gets to be be too bad, switch over.
Brian, dude. I love you, love your posts, but I have to take issue with, ''it can definitely be done if you want it bad enough". We all know treatment is different for everyone. Some get more severe side effects, like the nausea you mentioned. (which I'm glad you didn't have) I think it does help if someone has 40-50 extra pounds to loose, and you want to gamble with going into treatment without a peg, that's fine, I can understand that. For someone that is at optimum weight. I say no. Some people also are not big eaters or stress eaters and it gets even harder for them to get calories in. Those pounds come off quickly when they get going and sometimes your body gets too weak to have the tube put in. Also you can want bad enough to eat, but if your mouth is bleeding constantly and your mouth and tongue are severely burned, all the will you possess is not going to help you eat. Sometimes there comes a point for some that their mouth is so severe it's impossible to eat. I don't want those people feeling guilty and thinking that they just 'didn't want it bad enough'. Hope you understand what I mean. I may be overly sensitive on this issue as I had my mouth destroyed by rads. I know it doesn't happen to everyone, we are all different, but it does happen.
I had no intention of using the tube when I got it. Thank God I had it because I needed it. When my body needed 2400 calories a day there was just no way I could do that by mouth.0 -
Not 100% anti-tubesweetblood22 said:Briankrashpad
Brian, dude. I love you, love your posts, but I have to take issue with, ''it can definitely be done if you want it bad enough". We all know treatment is different for everyone. Some get more severe side effects, like the nausea you mentioned. (which I'm glad you didn't have) I think it does help if someone has 40-50 extra pounds to loose, and you want to gamble with going into treatment without a peg, that's fine, I can understand that. For someone that is at optimum weight. I say no. Some people also are not big eaters or stress eaters and it gets even harder for them to get calories in. Those pounds come off quickly when they get going and sometimes your body gets too weak to have the tube put in. Also you can want bad enough to eat, but if your mouth is bleeding constantly and your mouth and tongue are severely burned, all the will you possess is not going to help you eat. Sometimes there comes a point for some that their mouth is so severe it's impossible to eat. I don't want those people feeling guilty and thinking that they just 'didn't want it bad enough'. Hope you understand what I mean. I may be overly sensitive on this issue as I had my mouth destroyed by rads. I know it doesn't happen to everyone, we are all different, but it does happen.
I had no intention of using the tube when I got it. Thank God I had it because I needed it. When my body needed 2400 calories a day there was just no way I could do that by mouth.
This is DrMary's husband (see 12 April) and, as she says I didn't have a tube and have been against one if at all possible.
HOWEVER, I have come to agree with Sweets and some of the others that toughing it out is not possible for some and inadvisable for many. There was someone on here whose mother was 105 pounds and they were considering a tube. Get it. There are others who really got worked over in the throat whether with rads or the knife. For them, they should get it. There are others for whom wanting is badly just isn't going to be enough. They should get it.
HOWEVER2,I do not think everyone should just blindly go in for this and take it as if it were an easy prophylactic measure with no consequences kind of like opening a home equity line you never hope to use. Getting the thing and keeping the thing can have real ramifications as a few discussion here have pointed out. Obviously, any time you open up your body and stick things in it and then leave it open, there is a cost and a danger. So be very careful in making the calculation. And then do what you think is right and what you are comfortable with.
I was lucky, I made it though it was hell for some weeks swallowing and forcing it. I lost a bunch of weight that I didn't have to lose because it was all muscle. But I have recovered faster than I would have with a tube (I and the doctors - including DrMary - believe!) and this was right for me.
Now I have to sign off because I have to go play in a hockey game.
Best of luck, Doug0 -
I agree with pretty muchGoalie said:Not 100% anti-tube
This is DrMary's husband (see 12 April) and, as she says I didn't have a tube and have been against one if at all possible.
HOWEVER, I have come to agree with Sweets and some of the others that toughing it out is not possible for some and inadvisable for many. There was someone on here whose mother was 105 pounds and they were considering a tube. Get it. There are others who really got worked over in the throat whether with rads or the knife. For them, they should get it. There are others for whom wanting is badly just isn't going to be enough. They should get it.
HOWEVER2,I do not think everyone should just blindly go in for this and take it as if it were an easy prophylactic measure with no consequences kind of like opening a home equity line you never hope to use. Getting the thing and keeping the thing can have real ramifications as a few discussion here have pointed out. Obviously, any time you open up your body and stick things in it and then leave it open, there is a cost and a danger. So be very careful in making the calculation. And then do what you think is right and what you are comfortable with.
I was lucky, I made it though it was hell for some weeks swallowing and forcing it. I lost a bunch of weight that I didn't have to lose because it was all muscle. But I have recovered faster than I would have with a tube (I and the doctors - including DrMary - believe!) and this was right for me.
Now I have to sign off because I have to go play in a hockey game.
Best of luck, Doug
I agree with pretty much everything you said there, Doug. Especially with the reccomendation that 105 lb woman should get a peg. IMO any other reccomendation is just completely irresponsible.
As my Facebook friends will tell you, I am pretty much food obsessed, and if I could have eaten, I would have eaten. I was miserable because I couldn't eat. I was always a 'live to eat' kinda girl. If I'm not eating, something is really wrong. My father always used to tease me about not getting in-between me and food. If it went on sheer will to eat, I would have had no problem there.0 -
full sentences, sweetie, full sentences...sweetblood22 said:Briankrashpad
Brian, dude. I love you, love your posts, but I have to take issue with, ''it can definitely be done if you want it bad enough". We all know treatment is different for everyone. Some get more severe side effects, like the nausea you mentioned. (which I'm glad you didn't have) I think it does help if someone has 40-50 extra pounds to loose, and you want to gamble with going into treatment without a peg, that's fine, I can understand that. For someone that is at optimum weight. I say no. Some people also are not big eaters or stress eaters and it gets even harder for them to get calories in. Those pounds come off quickly when they get going and sometimes your body gets too weak to have the tube put in. Also you can want bad enough to eat, but if your mouth is bleeding constantly and your mouth and tongue are severely burned, all the will you possess is not going to help you eat. Sometimes there comes a point for some that their mouth is so severe it's impossible to eat. I don't want those people feeling guilty and thinking that they just 'didn't want it bad enough'. Hope you understand what I mean. I may be overly sensitive on this issue as I had my mouth destroyed by rads. I know it doesn't happen to everyone, we are all different, but it does happen.
I had no intention of using the tube when I got it. Thank God I had it because I needed it. When my body needed 2400 calories a day there was just no way I could do that by mouth.
That's why I didn't just say "it can definitely be done if you want it bad enough"-- the sentence was CONDITIONAL and went on to say IF one wasn't having too many other problems to deal with. Obviously, if you're rad-burned too bad, bleeding, throwing up, it won't happen.
So what I inartfully attempted to say was if you aren't dealing with too many other issues that conflict with keeping off the tube, it can be done. But that conditional "if" will necessarily take a lot of people out of the group that can avoid a tube.
Sorry, my apologies.0 -
LOL...Always a Hot TopicBrianKrashpad said:full sentences, sweetie, full sentences...
That's why I didn't just say "it can definitely be done if you want it bad enough"-- the sentence was CONDITIONAL and went on to say IF one wasn't having too many other problems to deal with. Obviously, if you're rad-burned too bad, bleeding, throwing up, it won't happen.
So what I inartfully attempted to say was if you aren't dealing with too many other issues that conflict with keeping off the tube, it can be done. But that conditional "if" will necessarily take a lot of people out of the group that can avoid a tube.
Sorry, my apologies.
You are correct Brian...
You are correct Dawn....
Just as the old standby that all of us understand, "Everyone is Different"....
I too didn't have the PEG, it wasn't an issue, I didn't avoid or turn it down...it just wasn't a concern from my MD's, so it wasn't for me.
I didn't have complications like some on here have...
The option was always there I'm sure if I did become ill and need it.
Should I have gotten the PEG because I might have needed it...some say YES others NO.
If I was like Dawn and others whom are already very light and small in nature. It goes without saying that the PEG should be inserted prior to treatment. If you have underlying conditions or a history that might cause you to have problems during treatment, also probably a very good decision to have one inserted.
But like myself whom had extra pounds going in, rarely sick, not on any meds, and generally in very good health. I don't think it's a given that I should have had the PEG inserted.
Yes, there's always a possibility that I reacted totally negative to treatment, couln't eat, got sick...whatever and would have had to have a PEG inserted during treatment.
All of that is hindsight, I didn't have the advantage of this forum, or others history prior to treatment. But in reality, looking back, I still don't think I would have had the PEG unless my MD's felt I needed one.
JG0 -
To AllGoalie said:Not 100% anti-tube
This is DrMary's husband (see 12 April) and, as she says I didn't have a tube and have been against one if at all possible.
HOWEVER, I have come to agree with Sweets and some of the others that toughing it out is not possible for some and inadvisable for many. There was someone on here whose mother was 105 pounds and they were considering a tube. Get it. There are others who really got worked over in the throat whether with rads or the knife. For them, they should get it. There are others for whom wanting is badly just isn't going to be enough. They should get it.
HOWEVER2,I do not think everyone should just blindly go in for this and take it as if it were an easy prophylactic measure with no consequences kind of like opening a home equity line you never hope to use. Getting the thing and keeping the thing can have real ramifications as a few discussion here have pointed out. Obviously, any time you open up your body and stick things in it and then leave it open, there is a cost and a danger. So be very careful in making the calculation. And then do what you think is right and what you are comfortable with.
I was lucky, I made it though it was hell for some weeks swallowing and forcing it. I lost a bunch of weight that I didn't have to lose because it was all muscle. But I have recovered faster than I would have with a tube (I and the doctors - including DrMary - believe!) and this was right for me.
Now I have to sign off because I have to go play in a hockey game.
Best of luck, Doug
Enough said...
kcass0 -
That damn tubeSkiffin16 said:LOL...Always a Hot Topic
You are correct Brian...
You are correct Dawn....
Just as the old standby that all of us understand, "Everyone is Different"....
I too didn't have the PEG, it wasn't an issue, I didn't avoid or turn it down...it just wasn't a concern from my MD's, so it wasn't for me.
I didn't have complications like some on here have...
The option was always there I'm sure if I did become ill and need it.
Should I have gotten the PEG because I might have needed it...some say YES others NO.
If I was like Dawn and others whom are already very light and small in nature. It goes without saying that the PEG should be inserted prior to treatment. If you have underlying conditions or a history that might cause you to have problems during treatment, also probably a very good decision to have one inserted.
But like myself whom had extra pounds going in, rarely sick, not on any meds, and generally in very good health. I don't think it's a given that I should have had the PEG inserted.
Yes, there's always a possibility that I reacted totally negative to treatment, couln't eat, got sick...whatever and would have had to have a PEG inserted during treatment.
All of that is hindsight, I didn't have the advantage of this forum, or others history prior to treatment. But in reality, looking back, I still don't think I would have had the PEG unless my MD's felt I needed one.
JG
Hated it; loved it. Doc insisted I get it. Something went wrong with putting it in and my digestive system shut down for 4 days. It was the only time I was hospitalized throughout the whole thing. The most intense pain by far as well. Dropped me to my knees even with 2 shots of Dilaudid in me. And still I would recommend it to anyone going through radiation to the head and neck. Not only did it keep me nourished after week 2/3 when it just hurt too bad to swallow anything other than water but it also allowed my mouth/throat to heal rapidly when the radiation was done. I was ready to start eating solid foods before my mouth was and having the tube gave everything the break it needed to heal up properly so I could begin eating solid foods sooner. Of course I could have toughed it out. Everyone here could have. We're the toughest group of people in the world. Sometimes we gotta save that toughness for other things. Sometimes we need to stop being tough and rest and take the gentler way. There will always be something else to be tough for. I am thankful for that damn tube. It allowed me to stop being so tough for a brief moment.
Bob0 -
Tube
Hi Brian,
I was diagnosed on Feb. 8, had tonsillectomy Feb. 11. I had the PEG put in the next week. The following week had to have 8 of my 2nd and 3rd molars removed - My mouth and throat...ouch. My first rad treatment was March 22. I could still taste food for the first 15 treatments, then tomato products started tasting like pennies, my beloved iced tea tasted like wet dirt smells, chocolate was awful, etc. My doc had told me that the tube would become my best friend. And he was right. Although I hate having to use it I'm glad I have it. I'm not a large person (116-122 lbs) and have managed to keep my weight relatively constant. The tube is really not all that bad, I pretend I'm having lobster and shrimp, not Isosource 1.5 Cal. (Nestle Nutrition makes it.) BUT if you don't NEED the PEG...well there you go!
Summing up, it is not bad having this device, and it is a very good thing I have it for the good nutrients in the cans, I mean it it LOADED with good things. (And it tastes like crap) But as soon as possible.....who wants to come over for a seafood party extravaganza?!!! I wish you well and hope that you can continue to eat normally and all of this goes by quickly for you.
Ruby0 -
SEAFOODRubytoos said:Tube
Hi Brian,
I was diagnosed on Feb. 8, had tonsillectomy Feb. 11. I had the PEG put in the next week. The following week had to have 8 of my 2nd and 3rd molars removed - My mouth and throat...ouch. My first rad treatment was March 22. I could still taste food for the first 15 treatments, then tomato products started tasting like pennies, my beloved iced tea tasted like wet dirt smells, chocolate was awful, etc. My doc had told me that the tube would become my best friend. And he was right. Although I hate having to use it I'm glad I have it. I'm not a large person (116-122 lbs) and have managed to keep my weight relatively constant. The tube is really not all that bad, I pretend I'm having lobster and shrimp, not Isosource 1.5 Cal. (Nestle Nutrition makes it.) BUT if you don't NEED the PEG...well there you go!
Summing up, it is not bad having this device, and it is a very good thing I have it for the good nutrients in the cans, I mean it it LOADED with good things. (And it tastes like crap) But as soon as possible.....who wants to come over for a seafood party extravaganza?!!! I wish you well and hope that you can continue to eat normally and all of this goes by quickly for you.
Ruby
Now you're talking.....
I just don't think it's up to anyone here to say that it's an absolute...it's not. Doesn't have anything to do with being tough, stubborn, or any of those mind over matter low pain threshold beliefs.
It's just another tool, piece of equipment, and device in the arsenal to get through treatment. Some need it some don't, to me, it's the doctors call...I'm not a medical professional. If they say I need it, I presume I need it, same goes the other way.
Yes it has helped many.....
But does everyone advocate saying I had Cisplatin, you have to have that...or I had a dissection, it's the gold standard....
When we post, it's because that's the experience that worked best (or not) for us, doesn't mean that it will for everyone.
I'm not trying to force anyone or influence anyone to not use the PEG. I'm just saying with me it wasn't an issue.
For others it was a very big issue.
Ultimately, everyone has to make their own choices based on (to me) trusting their doctors decisions, not mine or others here....we just share our experiences.
Anyways...just me....
John0 -
more infoSkiffin16 said:SEAFOOD
Now you're talking.....
I just don't think it's up to anyone here to say that it's an absolute...it's not. Doesn't have anything to do with being tough, stubborn, or any of those mind over matter low pain threshold beliefs.
It's just another tool, piece of equipment, and device in the arsenal to get through treatment. Some need it some don't, to me, it's the doctors call...I'm not a medical professional. If they say I need it, I presume I need it, same goes the other way.
Yes it has helped many.....
But does everyone advocate saying I had Cisplatin, you have to have that...or I had a dissection, it's the gold standard....
When we post, it's because that's the experience that worked best (or not) for us, doesn't mean that it will for everyone.
I'm not trying to force anyone or influence anyone to not use the PEG. I'm just saying with me it wasn't an issue.
For others it was a very big issue.
Ultimately, everyone has to make their own choices based on (to me) trusting their doctors decisions, not mine or others here....we just share our experiences.
Anyways...just me....
John
I stated I made it through without the peg. I failed to mention that I was overweight. I weight 240 lbs when I started. I remember telling the Dr that his diet was better than Weight Watches as I fell below 175. ThenI started to worry because I couldn't gain any and I bottomed out at 137. Had I not been overweight I don't think I would have made it. Weight should be around 175 - 180 and I have not been over 165 in 15 years.
Guess I'm saying - if you have the extra weight then it is probably ok with no tube (if Dr says so), if you are normal then I might reconsider.0 -
NormalGreend said:more info
I stated I made it through without the peg. I failed to mention that I was overweight. I weight 240 lbs when I started. I remember telling the Dr that his diet was better than Weight Watches as I fell below 175. ThenI started to worry because I couldn't gain any and I bottomed out at 137. Had I not been overweight I don't think I would have made it. Weight should be around 175 - 180 and I have not been over 165 in 15 years.
Guess I'm saying - if you have the extra weight then it is probably ok with no tube (if Dr says so), if you are normal then I might reconsider.
"If you are normal then I might reconsider".... Dang It Man, well there you go.....
I'm the leader of the Abi-Normal Clan....
JG0
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