alternative medicine

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kersha
kersha Member Posts: 63
edited March 2014 in Colorectal Cancer #1
I am a caregiver and would like to know if anyone has done alternative medicine overseas and the results. I know that John23 has been doing TCM and that seems to be working. I was wondering if I can send you a PM to learn more about what you have done.

Comments

  • Erinb
    Erinb Member Posts: 293
    Options
    Kersha,
    My husband is going

    Kersha,
    My husband is going to see an integrative doctor at the end of this month. I will be interested to see what he has to say. I'm hoping he can help get my husband's body in balance while undergoing treatments.
    I agree with John, but I'm not the one going through it.
    Good Luck, Erin
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member
    Options
    Kersha -
    Although I'll be happy to discuss most anything "off-board", I have
    always felt it best to say things out in the public domain.

    My personal reasons for that are fairly simple: Any information any
    of us receive should be available for questioning and/or challenged by
    others in the group. It's like getting second, third and fourth opinions!

    And of course, others benefit from the board only when things
    are discussed on the board.

    So, all that said (and feel free to drop me a note anyway), let me
    begin by saying one thing about alternative medicines:

    We are here because what we have is considered a terminal illness.
    There isn't too much room to play, when you're playing with something
    that can kill you.

    It's dangerous for anyone to "self medicate"; even doctors rarely
    treat themselves, just as lawyers don't defend themselves
    .
    When -you- have the problem, you're too close to that problem
    to be able to use the good judgement you might usually have at your
    disposal for other's problems.

    Now, is an alternative as good as the mainstream? We can't even
    ask for a "show of hands" here, since those that come here, come
    here for the peer support for the mainstream medicine they're taking,
    and the board doesn't give "rogue renegades" a room of our own...
    (Probably be empty anyway)

    I almost went the "chemo" route myself. My oncologist(s) had initially
    thoroughly convinced me and my wife, that chemo was the most
    important thing to do if I want to stay alive; there was no other choice.

    They also said that it had to be started within the first month after the
    operation, or two months at the most. They showed us charts that
    managed to indicate a 60-70% better chance of survival with chemo.
    And they said that once chemo began, it had to be finished; stopping
    would be perilous. They wouldn't start chemo until my wounds healed.

    Well.... It took almost 6 months for my wounds to heal, and at that time
    they said that chemo was a 50/50 chance; and also admitted that initially,
    chemo wouldn't have given me a 60-70% better chance, the real figure
    was 2%, and that's not including second cancers, etc.....

    So.... what to do? My TCM practitioner didn't believe in using herbs to
    kill cancer cells specifically. He already had two late-term cancer patients
    in his care that western medicine gave up on. For them, he was doing
    what his Chinese schooling taught, and that was to work on the patient's
    immune system, etc. (Both patients remain in fine shape, to this day).

    The difference between those patients and me, was that they had chemo
    to kill cancer, and even though it didn't work well enough, it did kill
    some tumors.

    I wanted to kill cancer cells first and foremost, and also get my immune
    system working...

    So I did a ton of research, and found herbs that are said to kill cancer cells.
    My TCM doc didn't have those herbs, and didn't use them in his practice,
    but he agreed to help me if I ran into problems taking the herbs.

    I bought the herbs from an importer of medicinal strength herbs here
    in Florida. The cost was minimal, with a months supply costing around $100.

    The herbs are cooked in 9 cups of water, reducing it to 3 cups. The
    mess is then strained and cooled. I drank 3 cups per day, for a six month
    period, then nothing for six months, and repeated again, for six months.

    I did have some problems, but my TCM doc gave me herbs to get my
    system back on track each time I did. There's a combination of a toxic
    effect of too many cancer cells dying at once, and/or the (possible) toxic effects
    and system imbalances caused by too much of one or another of the herbs.

    That.... is the reason the herbs should not be taken without a qualified
    doctor of TCM, or a qualified herbalist on hand to oversee your condition
    every step of the way.

    My last scans were the same as each past year's series..... clean. CEA= 0.6.

    I keep in mind, that my condition is subject to change for the worse at any time,
    just as it could, had I gone the mainstream route; There are no guarantees.

    Herbs cannot be used as a substitute for surgery; If you have a tumor that's
    about to kill you, have it removed.

    There is nothing "wrong" with taking the chemotherapy route, but don't let
    fear drive you to it.

    Do not ever, allow fear to steer you into an alternative either. Take your time
    and try to lose your fears, and make choices that your own instinct tells you
    is right.

    People can die of cancer after taking chemo, just as they can die of cancer
    after using an alternative to chemo; there is no guarantee with anything.

    Many here are "juicing" to help fight against cancer, and it appears to be
    working out just fine! It's very interesting to learn of all the ways one can
    do battle against cancer, and have great results to show for it.

    To tell you the truth...... I just can't understand the logic of making yourself
    sick as a dog, with the notion that it will help you survive.

    It really does sound ridiculous, doesn't it? Weaken the immune system,
    make your body so sick you can hardly stand up, give yourself severe
    neurological problems that may be permanent, and do it all in the name of
    "trying to get better".

    I guess that's just my silly inner self talking.....trying to make sense
    of what seems so wrong, while doctors tell us it's right.

    Some good reading material is here:
    http://www.taoofherbs.com/articles/56/BasicsOfTCM.htm


    Stay well; think healthy.

    John
  • Carl_Renee
    Carl_Renee Member Posts: 84
    Options
    John23 said:

    Kersha -
    Although I'll be happy to discuss most anything "off-board", I have
    always felt it best to say things out in the public domain.

    My personal reasons for that are fairly simple: Any information any
    of us receive should be available for questioning and/or challenged by
    others in the group. It's like getting second, third and fourth opinions!

    And of course, others benefit from the board only when things
    are discussed on the board.

    So, all that said (and feel free to drop me a note anyway), let me
    begin by saying one thing about alternative medicines:

    We are here because what we have is considered a terminal illness.
    There isn't too much room to play, when you're playing with something
    that can kill you.

    It's dangerous for anyone to "self medicate"; even doctors rarely
    treat themselves, just as lawyers don't defend themselves
    .
    When -you- have the problem, you're too close to that problem
    to be able to use the good judgement you might usually have at your
    disposal for other's problems.

    Now, is an alternative as good as the mainstream? We can't even
    ask for a "show of hands" here, since those that come here, come
    here for the peer support for the mainstream medicine they're taking,
    and the board doesn't give "rogue renegades" a room of our own...
    (Probably be empty anyway)

    I almost went the "chemo" route myself. My oncologist(s) had initially
    thoroughly convinced me and my wife, that chemo was the most
    important thing to do if I want to stay alive; there was no other choice.

    They also said that it had to be started within the first month after the
    operation, or two months at the most. They showed us charts that
    managed to indicate a 60-70% better chance of survival with chemo.
    And they said that once chemo began, it had to be finished; stopping
    would be perilous. They wouldn't start chemo until my wounds healed.

    Well.... It took almost 6 months for my wounds to heal, and at that time
    they said that chemo was a 50/50 chance; and also admitted that initially,
    chemo wouldn't have given me a 60-70% better chance, the real figure
    was 2%, and that's not including second cancers, etc.....

    So.... what to do? My TCM practitioner didn't believe in using herbs to
    kill cancer cells specifically. He already had two late-term cancer patients
    in his care that western medicine gave up on. For them, he was doing
    what his Chinese schooling taught, and that was to work on the patient's
    immune system, etc. (Both patients remain in fine shape, to this day).

    The difference between those patients and me, was that they had chemo
    to kill cancer, and even though it didn't work well enough, it did kill
    some tumors.

    I wanted to kill cancer cells first and foremost, and also get my immune
    system working...

    So I did a ton of research, and found herbs that are said to kill cancer cells.
    My TCM doc didn't have those herbs, and didn't use them in his practice,
    but he agreed to help me if I ran into problems taking the herbs.

    I bought the herbs from an importer of medicinal strength herbs here
    in Florida. The cost was minimal, with a months supply costing around $100.

    The herbs are cooked in 9 cups of water, reducing it to 3 cups. The
    mess is then strained and cooled. I drank 3 cups per day, for a six month
    period, then nothing for six months, and repeated again, for six months.

    I did have some problems, but my TCM doc gave me herbs to get my
    system back on track each time I did. There's a combination of a toxic
    effect of too many cancer cells dying at once, and/or the (possible) toxic effects
    and system imbalances caused by too much of one or another of the herbs.

    That.... is the reason the herbs should not be taken without a qualified
    doctor of TCM, or a qualified herbalist on hand to oversee your condition
    every step of the way.

    My last scans were the same as each past year's series..... clean. CEA= 0.6.

    I keep in mind, that my condition is subject to change for the worse at any time,
    just as it could, had I gone the mainstream route; There are no guarantees.

    Herbs cannot be used as a substitute for surgery; If you have a tumor that's
    about to kill you, have it removed.

    There is nothing "wrong" with taking the chemotherapy route, but don't let
    fear drive you to it.

    Do not ever, allow fear to steer you into an alternative either. Take your time
    and try to lose your fears, and make choices that your own instinct tells you
    is right.

    People can die of cancer after taking chemo, just as they can die of cancer
    after using an alternative to chemo; there is no guarantee with anything.

    Many here are "juicing" to help fight against cancer, and it appears to be
    working out just fine! It's very interesting to learn of all the ways one can
    do battle against cancer, and have great results to show for it.

    To tell you the truth...... I just can't understand the logic of making yourself
    sick as a dog, with the notion that it will help you survive.

    It really does sound ridiculous, doesn't it? Weaken the immune system,
    make your body so sick you can hardly stand up, give yourself severe
    neurological problems that may be permanent, and do it all in the name of
    "trying to get better".

    I guess that's just my silly inner self talking.....trying to make sense
    of what seems so wrong, while doctors tell us it's right.

    Some good reading material is here:
    http://www.taoofherbs.com/articles/56/BasicsOfTCM.htm


    Stay well; think healthy.

    John

    Alternative options
    John thank you for your post. We had always been adamant that should something like this ever happen we would not go the course of chemo and such just doesn't make sense. However now with it in our face obviously now we have reservations and looking for ways to somehow make the 2 work together. The clinic we are considering going to for 2nd opinion has an on site naturopath. Our current NP referred us. It is a couple hours away so may move the RV there and see where life takes us...first things first have the meeting to see how the team treats questions we have and in general.

    Our NP started my husband on probiotics post op and has given us many diet things to do some changes but for most part same diet we were already on. Off to look at site you suggested and email to our NP as well.
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member
    Options

    Alternative options
    John thank you for your post. We had always been adamant that should something like this ever happen we would not go the course of chemo and such just doesn't make sense. However now with it in our face obviously now we have reservations and looking for ways to somehow make the 2 work together. The clinic we are considering going to for 2nd opinion has an on site naturopath. Our current NP referred us. It is a couple hours away so may move the RV there and see where life takes us...first things first have the meeting to see how the team treats questions we have and in general.

    Our NP started my husband on probiotics post op and has given us many diet things to do some changes but for most part same diet we were already on. Off to look at site you suggested and email to our NP as well.

    Carl_Renee -


    Re:
    "It is a couple hours away so may move the RV there and see where life takes us..."

    Congratulations on the RV life! My friend and his wife full-timed for
    ten years before moving back into their home. My wife and I full-timed
    for about two years while looking for a new home in Florida.

    Full-timing or not, it's a great way to go!! Living in an RV really brings new
    life to old relationships..... (or it causes you to commit murder) (haha).

    TCM has been used as an adjuvant to chemotherapy for many years
    by oncologists that allow it. Both my oncologists would not permits me
    to use TCM for the side effects of chemo, claiming that "if it takes away
    the side effects, it may take away the usefulness".

    Imagine that? They would prefer to use more drugs to take away the
    side effects that other drugs are causing, and disregard the interaction
    of compounding drugs that haven't been thoroughly tested with one another.

    By the way.... some new studies have indicated that it might be the
    drugs that are used to counteract the side effects, that could be causing
    "chemo brain". Good grief. They had been saying that "chemo brain"
    isn't a fact, it's just a myth.....

    Don't allow fear to steer you into anything, alternative or otherwise.
    I think you're headed into the right direction... Getting healthy in spite
    of cancer, is the way to go. A healthy body fights best! And we have to
    continually do battle.

    Keep us all posted, willya'?

    Best wishes for a long, long life!

    John
  • Carl_Renee
    Carl_Renee Member Posts: 84
    Options
    John23 said:

    Carl_Renee -


    Re:
    "It is a couple hours away so may move the RV there and see where life takes us..."

    Congratulations on the RV life! My friend and his wife full-timed for
    ten years before moving back into their home. My wife and I full-timed
    for about two years while looking for a new home in Florida.

    Full-timing or not, it's a great way to go!! Living in an RV really brings new
    life to old relationships..... (or it causes you to commit murder) (haha).

    TCM has been used as an adjuvant to chemotherapy for many years
    by oncologists that allow it. Both my oncologists would not permits me
    to use TCM for the side effects of chemo, claiming that "if it takes away
    the side effects, it may take away the usefulness".

    Imagine that? They would prefer to use more drugs to take away the
    side effects that other drugs are causing, and disregard the interaction
    of compounding drugs that haven't been thoroughly tested with one another.

    By the way.... some new studies have indicated that it might be the
    drugs that are used to counteract the side effects, that could be causing
    "chemo brain". Good grief. They had been saying that "chemo brain"
    isn't a fact, it's just a myth.....

    Don't allow fear to steer you into anything, alternative or otherwise.
    I think you're headed into the right direction... Getting healthy in spite
    of cancer, is the way to go. A healthy body fights best! And we have to
    continually do battle.

    Keep us all posted, willya'?

    Best wishes for a long, long life!

    John

    Most Definitely
    Will be keeping in touch and progress. We are pretty much decided there will be natural methods to help build immunity the best we can to help offset some of the problems that could arise. Before he is all done with all this we will be well into the winter...and in Montana that sucks.

    We have been fulltiming for 2 yrs...Sept begins our 3rd year. Our kids fight less since we have. Sounds crazy and I certainly never would have expected it but they have learned to co exist better they had to get along in small spaces there isn't a place to run off to etc so it is just easier to get along lol.

    I do think this upcoming winter with all the changes my husband will be going thru we may put the RV down and find a place to live. Not really on my highlights of things to do as the RV is finally paid for and would go a long way of alleviating stress of that extra huge bill of paying someone $1000+/month, but he needs to be able to regulate his body heat so we will see where this goes for now. I still think if we add an Eden Pure to supplement the furnace he would be fine, but then it isn't my body going thru it. This was to be the winter we went south but he will be in the middle of treatments so not a smart time to change things up.

    Renee
  • sharpy102
    sharpy102 Member Posts: 368 Member
    Options
    We used the following
    We used the following alternative "medicines":

    - B17
    - DCA (dichloroacetic acid)

    But we used these because the doctor said "no chemo, or surgery needed anymore. Go home, and...live as long as you live". So, I would say, you do whatever you can without alternative approaches until the doctor doesn't give you this message...then turn into alternative methods...

    Good luck, Kersha!
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    Options
    Hi Kersha
    It seems that many who seek alternative therapies do not frequent this site with the exception of John23 and a few juicers who I believe used western medicine to have the cancer removed, then did alternate methods after surgery. Maybe there are other sites that have more testimony from alternative survivors? If they are on this site, most of them are keeping how they beat cancer a secret (except the above mentioned). This site tends to be more mainstream.
    Best of luck to you with your journey
    -phil
  • 2bhealed
    2bhealed Member Posts: 2,064 Member
    Options
    Alternatives
    Hi Kersha,

    Though I did not go overseas, I DID do alternatives post surgery. I opted to NOT do any of the prescribed adjuvant chemo for my Stage III colon cancer. You can read my story on my web page on this site.

    I don't post often anymore, but if you do a search on here you'll find oodles of my posts (ad nauseaum) about what I did and my juicing regime.

    I have remained cancer free going on NINE years (this August). Diet played a huge part in my cancer-healing regime as did exercise, TCM (acupuncture, massage, herbs etc), yoga, and prayer. I also got rid of as much negative energy in my life (people, expectations on my life etc).

    I'm in the process of moving (today in fact) so not a lot of time here these days; but John gave me the heads up and I wanted to let you know there ARE successes on here with alternatives. When I was looking 9 years ago there was no one to help me from this site. OVer the years there has been a lot of arguments and animosity towards alternative medicine vs chemo, but lately in the last year or so I have witnessed an increase of folks using complementary meds or adding juicing to their regimes. It's been a wonderful turnaround to say the least for someone like me. I'm not longer alone.

    I do think that John and I are the only ones I can think of that did ONLY alternatives post surgery with NO chemo, though. Most do the chemo, suffer the affects, and then try alternatives.

    Good luck!

    peace, emily the juice chick
  • kersha
    kersha Member Posts: 63
    Options
    John23 said:

    Kersha -
    Although I'll be happy to discuss most anything "off-board", I have
    always felt it best to say things out in the public domain.

    My personal reasons for that are fairly simple: Any information any
    of us receive should be available for questioning and/or challenged by
    others in the group. It's like getting second, third and fourth opinions!

    And of course, others benefit from the board only when things
    are discussed on the board.

    So, all that said (and feel free to drop me a note anyway), let me
    begin by saying one thing about alternative medicines:

    We are here because what we have is considered a terminal illness.
    There isn't too much room to play, when you're playing with something
    that can kill you.

    It's dangerous for anyone to "self medicate"; even doctors rarely
    treat themselves, just as lawyers don't defend themselves
    .
    When -you- have the problem, you're too close to that problem
    to be able to use the good judgement you might usually have at your
    disposal for other's problems.

    Now, is an alternative as good as the mainstream? We can't even
    ask for a "show of hands" here, since those that come here, come
    here for the peer support for the mainstream medicine they're taking,
    and the board doesn't give "rogue renegades" a room of our own...
    (Probably be empty anyway)

    I almost went the "chemo" route myself. My oncologist(s) had initially
    thoroughly convinced me and my wife, that chemo was the most
    important thing to do if I want to stay alive; there was no other choice.

    They also said that it had to be started within the first month after the
    operation, or two months at the most. They showed us charts that
    managed to indicate a 60-70% better chance of survival with chemo.
    And they said that once chemo began, it had to be finished; stopping
    would be perilous. They wouldn't start chemo until my wounds healed.

    Well.... It took almost 6 months for my wounds to heal, and at that time
    they said that chemo was a 50/50 chance; and also admitted that initially,
    chemo wouldn't have given me a 60-70% better chance, the real figure
    was 2%, and that's not including second cancers, etc.....

    So.... what to do? My TCM practitioner didn't believe in using herbs to
    kill cancer cells specifically. He already had two late-term cancer patients
    in his care that western medicine gave up on. For them, he was doing
    what his Chinese schooling taught, and that was to work on the patient's
    immune system, etc. (Both patients remain in fine shape, to this day).

    The difference between those patients and me, was that they had chemo
    to kill cancer, and even though it didn't work well enough, it did kill
    some tumors.

    I wanted to kill cancer cells first and foremost, and also get my immune
    system working...

    So I did a ton of research, and found herbs that are said to kill cancer cells.
    My TCM doc didn't have those herbs, and didn't use them in his practice,
    but he agreed to help me if I ran into problems taking the herbs.

    I bought the herbs from an importer of medicinal strength herbs here
    in Florida. The cost was minimal, with a months supply costing around $100.

    The herbs are cooked in 9 cups of water, reducing it to 3 cups. The
    mess is then strained and cooled. I drank 3 cups per day, for a six month
    period, then nothing for six months, and repeated again, for six months.

    I did have some problems, but my TCM doc gave me herbs to get my
    system back on track each time I did. There's a combination of a toxic
    effect of too many cancer cells dying at once, and/or the (possible) toxic effects
    and system imbalances caused by too much of one or another of the herbs.

    That.... is the reason the herbs should not be taken without a qualified
    doctor of TCM, or a qualified herbalist on hand to oversee your condition
    every step of the way.

    My last scans were the same as each past year's series..... clean. CEA= 0.6.

    I keep in mind, that my condition is subject to change for the worse at any time,
    just as it could, had I gone the mainstream route; There are no guarantees.

    Herbs cannot be used as a substitute for surgery; If you have a tumor that's
    about to kill you, have it removed.

    There is nothing "wrong" with taking the chemotherapy route, but don't let
    fear drive you to it.

    Do not ever, allow fear to steer you into an alternative either. Take your time
    and try to lose your fears, and make choices that your own instinct tells you
    is right.

    People can die of cancer after taking chemo, just as they can die of cancer
    after using an alternative to chemo; there is no guarantee with anything.

    Many here are "juicing" to help fight against cancer, and it appears to be
    working out just fine! It's very interesting to learn of all the ways one can
    do battle against cancer, and have great results to show for it.

    To tell you the truth...... I just can't understand the logic of making yourself
    sick as a dog, with the notion that it will help you survive.

    It really does sound ridiculous, doesn't it? Weaken the immune system,
    make your body so sick you can hardly stand up, give yourself severe
    neurological problems that may be permanent, and do it all in the name of
    "trying to get better".

    I guess that's just my silly inner self talking.....trying to make sense
    of what seems so wrong, while doctors tell us it's right.

    Some good reading material is here:
    http://www.taoofherbs.com/articles/56/BasicsOfTCM.htm


    Stay well; think healthy.

    John

    thanks
    Thank you all for responding to my post. My husband has done surgery and chemo and is stabilized at this time. He does not want to do anymore chemo and i do not blame him. Therefore we have been looking into other types of treatments. We have already changed our diet and have slowly added new things and hope that we have good response like you all will keep you posted. Again thank you all.