cimetidine (Tagamet??)

dianetavegia
dianetavegia Member Posts: 1,942 Member
edited March 2014 in Colorectal Cancer #1
Saw this discussion on the bottom of another thread. Can we bring that discussion here since it seems pretty important?

So, what did the Onc recommend?

I found some OLD studies (1998- 2002) which said 'we've known for 20 years...' I have not yet found anything current.

Lisa, the numbers were much larger. I saw 85% of Dukes C survived 10 years vs 50% without cimetidine.

All those in the tests took the cimetidine for 1 year following surgery. Does cimetidine do the same thing the aspirin does?

If studies have proven such great survival stats, why are we not all tested for the Lewis whatever and given cimetidine?
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Comments

  • jscho
    jscho Member Posts: 62
    #2
    cimetidine
    It is my understanding that cimetidine acts differently from aspirin. Aspirin apparently inhibits the activation of a transcription factor that leads to cellgrowth and inflammatory response (via cytokines IL-1 and IL-6). Cimetidine, on the other hand, supposedly prevents histamine binding and indirectly enhances local anti-tumor response via IL-18 signalling to the immune system's natural killer and T cells. It also seems to lower the levels of some molecular hooks in blood vessels that cancer cells use to anchor (using the Lewis things) and form metastases.

    I think this work is too new to become part of mainstream treatment at the moment, and there are so many potential biological markers one could test. If the side-effects aren't too severe, it seems worthwhile to take it as a precautionary measure, particularly for stage III people who seem to benefit more, probably since they are more likely to overexpress sLx and sLa (Lewis things).

    Cheers,
    Jeremy
  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625 Member
    #3
    not new
    Hi,

    Cimetidine showing help for cancer is not new, as the clinical study on it was a few years ago- I think one in 2002 and one in the 90's. WHY isn't it being prescribed and tried more for cancer? Interestingly, I really don't know. The one study, as Diane referred to, was on earlier stage colorectal cancer patients. Some were given cimetidine (generic version of Tagamet at a much higher dose than the over-the-counter)a week before their colon resection surgery and then continued to take it for a year following surgery. All had chemo after surgery. The group that had cimetidine in addition to the chemo had a much higher 5 year survival rate- over 30% better than the group that had just chemo alone. I guess it does something to help prevent metastasis. Since I'm stage IV and already have metastasis, I'm wondering if/what it can do for metastasized tumors already there. But, even if it prevents more metastasis, that could be worth a lot! I am planning on mentioning this to my oncologist at my appt next week Monday, along with also discussing several other things- like "what next!".
  • dianetavegia
    dianetavegia Member Posts: 1,942 Member
    #4
    lisa42 said:

    not new
    Hi,

    Cimetidine showing help for cancer is not new, as the clinical study on it was a few years ago- I think one in 2002 and one in the 90's. WHY isn't it being prescribed and tried more for cancer? Interestingly, I really don't know. The one study, as Diane referred to, was on earlier stage colorectal cancer patients. Some were given cimetidine (generic version of Tagamet at a much higher dose than the over-the-counter)a week before their colon resection surgery and then continued to take it for a year following surgery. All had chemo after surgery. The group that had cimetidine in addition to the chemo had a much higher 5 year survival rate- over 30% better than the group that had just chemo alone. I guess it does something to help prevent metastasis. Since I'm stage IV and already have metastasis, I'm wondering if/what it can do for metastasized tumors already there. But, even if it prevents more metastasis, that could be worth a lot! I am planning on mentioning this to my oncologist at my appt next week Monday, along with also discussing several other things- like "what next!".

    Let us know
    I did see a reference that said not to take cimetidine if you are on any blood thinners. I also saw mention that Japan found it works only on tumors prone to mets (is there any other sort?) ....

    Makes me wonder if we all missed out.

    One article said the drug company stopped all 'cancer trials' ....
  • lmliess
    lmliess Member Posts: 329
    #5
    dianetavegia said:

    Let us know
    I did see a reference that said not to take cimetidine if you are on any blood thinners. I also saw mention that Japan found it works only on tumors prone to mets (is there any other sort?) ....

    Makes me wonder if we all missed out.

    One article said the drug company stopped all 'cancer trials' ....

    Cimetidine
    I emailed my dr about this today and he said the results are unclear, but given that there are very little side effects, if I choose to take it then go ahead.

    In my opinion, if it isn't going to hurt me and there is a chance these studies are onto something, then I think I will.

    I know you aren't supposed to mix with Avastin or any of the chemo drugs in the Folfox mix. I think the Tagamet does what Avastin does so they may rule each other out. However, I am not on Avastin anymore. If tagamet can work like that and stop any metasis, then that would be great!

    So I think I am adding it to my daily 'supplement' routine.
  • HollyID
    HollyID Member Posts: 946 Member
    #6
    lisa42 said:

    not new
    Hi,

    Cimetidine showing help for cancer is not new, as the clinical study on it was a few years ago- I think one in 2002 and one in the 90's. WHY isn't it being prescribed and tried more for cancer? Interestingly, I really don't know. The one study, as Diane referred to, was on earlier stage colorectal cancer patients. Some were given cimetidine (generic version of Tagamet at a much higher dose than the over-the-counter)a week before their colon resection surgery and then continued to take it for a year following surgery. All had chemo after surgery. The group that had cimetidine in addition to the chemo had a much higher 5 year survival rate- over 30% better than the group that had just chemo alone. I guess it does something to help prevent metastasis. Since I'm stage IV and already have metastasis, I'm wondering if/what it can do for metastasized tumors already there. But, even if it prevents more metastasis, that could be worth a lot! I am planning on mentioning this to my oncologist at my appt next week Monday, along with also discussing several other things- like "what next!".

    I'm flabbergasted...
    I'm asking my onc about this next Tuesday. For me, I don't see a reason not to take it. I read somewhere that it suggests you take 1000mg a day. OTC come in 800mg doses.

    Lisa, thanks for bringing this up again. You too, Diane. I'm just flabbergasted that the overall 5 year survival rate is so much higher.

    Let us know what your onc says. I'll be curious to hear what s/he has to say.
  • dianetavegia
    dianetavegia Member Posts: 1,942 Member
    #7
    30 years later....... ???
    So they've known this for nigh on 30 years and it's not given to everyone?

    Back when they did the trials, all cc patients had a full year of chemo with 5 FU only. It was only given before surgery and for the 1 year following.

    One of the pages I read said the drug company stopped the 'for cancer' trials when they cut back on production. I have to say it the results were really this promising, you'd think the drug company would have continued production and made huge profits off saving lives.

    Something just doesn't add up.
  • feniks
    feniks Member Posts: 33 Member
    #8
    dianetavegia said:

    30 years later....... ???
    So they've known this for nigh on 30 years and it's not given to everyone?

    Back when they did the trials, all cc patients had a full year of chemo with 5 FU only. It was only given before surgery and for the 1 year following.

    One of the pages I read said the drug company stopped the 'for cancer' trials when they cut back on production. I have to say it the results were really this promising, you'd think the drug company would have continued production and made huge profits off saving lives.

    Something just doesn't add up.

    I read about cimetidine
    a lot and I want to buy it but here in Czech republic they don't sell cimetidine!?You can buy all around:Germany,Austria,Slovakia but not in Czech republic.From what i read it could be sucess but we can't buy it.And we probably start with artemisinin.We think he couldn't do serious damage,maybe increase AST and Alt but we monitoring that.I e-maild DR.Lai,who is one of the leader in research and work on Washington university,I dont know which,and he told me he received mail from someone who have regressed his colon cancer and mets to liver.I hope it's true because wife decide to try it.
  • HollyID
    HollyID Member Posts: 946 Member
    #9
    lisa42 said:

    not new
    Hi,

    Cimetidine showing help for cancer is not new, as the clinical study on it was a few years ago- I think one in 2002 and one in the 90's. WHY isn't it being prescribed and tried more for cancer? Interestingly, I really don't know. The one study, as Diane referred to, was on earlier stage colorectal cancer patients. Some were given cimetidine (generic version of Tagamet at a much higher dose than the over-the-counter)a week before their colon resection surgery and then continued to take it for a year following surgery. All had chemo after surgery. The group that had cimetidine in addition to the chemo had a much higher 5 year survival rate- over 30% better than the group that had just chemo alone. I guess it does something to help prevent metastasis. Since I'm stage IV and already have metastasis, I'm wondering if/what it can do for metastasized tumors already there. But, even if it prevents more metastasis, that could be worth a lot! I am planning on mentioning this to my oncologist at my appt next week Monday, along with also discussing several other things- like "what next!".

    I brought this up with my onc today...
    I printed out this thread so I could go armed and let him know I wasn't pulling this out of thin air.

    He looked at a few different sites. He teaches at the University of Utah which is highly recommended here in the west. His partner worked at the Huntsman clinic in Salt Lake City.

    He really couldn't find anything that correlated recurrence and tagamet. Like he said though, it's not gonna hurt to take it, so do it.

    Maybe it's a placebo effect, I don't know. If we think it's gonna work, it will? I have no idea. When my dad had cancer, I read of a woman who dreamt she had pacmans eating her cancer cells. She went into remission. I have no idea if there is any correlation with tagamet and hoping and wishing.

    I'm gonna do it. Just add it to my VitD3s. It ain't gonna hurt, but it might help more than anyone knows.
  • JR
    JR Member Posts: 139 Member
    #10
    HollyID said:

    I brought this up with my onc today...
    I printed out this thread so I could go armed and let him know I wasn't pulling this out of thin air.

    He looked at a few different sites. He teaches at the University of Utah which is highly recommended here in the west. His partner worked at the Huntsman clinic in Salt Lake City.

    He really couldn't find anything that correlated recurrence and tagamet. Like he said though, it's not gonna hurt to take it, so do it.

    Maybe it's a placebo effect, I don't know. If we think it's gonna work, it will? I have no idea. When my dad had cancer, I read of a woman who dreamt she had pacmans eating her cancer cells. She went into remission. I have no idea if there is any correlation with tagamet and hoping and wishing.

    I'm gonna do it. Just add it to my VitD3s. It ain't gonna hurt, but it might help more than anyone knows.

    HollyID
    My onc is at the Huntsman Cancer Institute. I don't see her for a couple of weeks but intend on bringing this up with her. She is Dr. Kim Jones, great onc. Is she possibly your onc's partner ??

    John
  • ron50
    ron50 Member Posts: 1,723 Member
    #11
    accidental tourist
    I had problems with naprosyn a nsaid. It caused severe gastritis and I was passing quite a lot of disgested blood. I was initially put on zantac then changed to tagamet which I took continuously before during and after cancer. I have since been put on somac a stronger drug for duodenal and peptic ulcers and to lessen the damage caused by prednisone and methotrexate.Ron
  • HollyID
    HollyID Member Posts: 946 Member
    #12
    JR said:

    HollyID
    My onc is at the Huntsman Cancer Institute. I don't see her for a couple of weeks but intend on bringing this up with her. She is Dr. Kim Jones, great onc. Is she possibly your onc's partner ??

    John

    JR... she might be...
    I have two oncs I see. The one onc's name is Dane Dickson. He's the one that came from the Huntsman center. A wonderful, caring KNOWLEDGEABLE man. In fact, they refer a lot of cancer patients that live in Idaho to see him. My second onc is Jeffery Hancock. He's from the U of U. He's an adjunct professor there. Another caring, KNOWLEDGEABLE man who makes sure your questions are answered. I talked to Dr. Hancock yesterday about the tagemet.

    I'm curious what your onc would have to say, JR. Please do ask her and see what she has to say.

    I've heard such great things about the Huntsman center. They are truly top of the line. If Dr. Dickson and Dr. Hancock weren't so close, and so highly recommended, I'd be at Huntsman in a heartbeat!
  • PRN
    PRN Member Posts: 5
    #13
    dianetavegia said:

    Let us know
    I did see a reference that said not to take cimetidine if you are on any blood thinners. I also saw mention that Japan found it works only on tumors prone to mets (is there any other sort?) ....

    Makes me wonder if we all missed out.

    One article said the drug company stopped all 'cancer trials' ....

    If you have blood tests with
    If you have blood tests with relatively highly expressed CA19-9 or CA-242, sialylated isoforms that have available blood tests, then, yes, the published Science indicates a major missed chance in Stage III/IV colorectal cancer at initial treatment. Like maybe 95+% survival in 10 years (Matsumoto, 2002) along with one year of daily chemo.

    Personally I think every potential Stage III/IV colorectal patient should be blood tested for CA19-9 (commonly available test) and if the value is over 2, they should strongly consider cimetidine (common population genetic variations 0-20, centered around 5, or 3, for young and healthy). If no blood test, and prospect is stage III/IV colorectal cancer, others say just do it.

    If the serum CA19-9 is over 15, I would change doctors, surgeon, hospital, lab etc until I had support for cimetidine 7+ days before surgery, IN SURGERY too, and a pathology lab that stained for CA19-9 (sialyl lewis A) or CA-242 if not the best CD15s antigens for sialyl Lewis X. I would ask for a COX-2 stain also. I talked to a number of oncs about cimetidine after reading dozens of sialyl Lewis and cimetidine papers, their heads were full of Roche eggs, they knew nothing or had Roche stuff falling out on the floor.

    Hearts and minds: $10,000-$25,000 per month from my interviews vs $2 per month treatments, and frankly I would not take the others for free (toxicity, lack of meaningful effectiveness).
  • PRN
    PRN Member Posts: 5
    #14
    ron50 said:

    accidental tourist
    I had problems with naprosyn a nsaid. It caused severe gastritis and I was passing quite a lot of disgested blood. I was initially put on zantac then changed to tagamet which I took continuously before during and after cancer. I have since been put on somac a stronger drug for duodenal and peptic ulcers and to lessen the damage caused by prednisone and methotrexate.Ron

    Cimetidine is a specific,
    Cimetidine is a specific, sialyl Lewis responding agent for advanced epithelial cancers. The other, more recent proton pump, stomach acid inhibitors simply don't have the same dendritic cell action as cimetidine.
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331 Member
    #15
    PRN said:

    Cimetidine is a specific,
    Cimetidine is a specific, sialyl Lewis responding agent for advanced epithelial cancers. The other, more recent proton pump, stomach acid inhibitors simply don't have the same dendritic cell action as cimetidine.

    Is there any info on the net about this?
    Just to send it to my Onc.
  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625 Member
    #16
    pepebcn said:

    Is there any info on the net about this?
    Just to send it to my Onc.

    google cimetidine colorectal cancer study
    Pepebcn,

    Just google cimetidine colorectal cancer study or something like that & I would think you'd find it on the net.
    My onc said he didn't know what to think of the results, as the study was based on stage I and II patients taking it along with Xeloda for the year following their initial surgery to prevent any metastasis. The difference was pretty big, as Diane stated above, between the group taking Xeloda only for the year and the group taking Xeloda with cimetidine.

    Since I am stage IV, my onc didn't know what it would do for me- it doesn't seem to make tumors go away, but seems to help prevent spreading or metastasis. My onc's thoughts for me in my case were that it couldn't hurt, so why not take it- it is really pretty harmless to take. His thoughts were maybe taking it would keep the cancer from spreading any further. I have had it in liver and lungs & so far it hasn't spread beyond that point. I do get the results back of my PET/CT scan later this afternoon & hopefully it will show that I still have not had any further spreading of disease.

    I'd take the cimetidine if I were you- pose it to your onc that if it's not harmful to take, why NOT try it?!

    Good luck,
    Lisa
  • Livingbyfaith
    Livingbyfaith Member Posts: 55
    #17
    Tagamet or cimetidine
    Has anyone been taking this before and after colon with liver mets surgery and have you had success? Thank you. Husband due for liver resection surgery Thursday and his doctor said he could take it.
  • GaryinUK
    GaryinUK Member Posts: 62
    #18
    Livingbyfaith said:

    Tagamet or cimetidine
    Has anyone been taking this before and after colon with liver mets surgery and have you had success? Thank you. Husband due for liver resection surgery Thursday and his doctor said he could take it.

    Speak up please
    Good idea to bring this thread up, I remember reading something about it somewhere before.

    So, for those that said they were going to take it or any that have, what happened next?

    Love to hear

    Gary
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    #19
    GaryinUK said:

    Speak up please
    Good idea to bring this thread up, I remember reading something about it somewhere before.

    So, for those that said they were going to take it or any that have, what happened next?

    Love to hear

    Gary

    i am going to start on this
    hi gary.

    It sounds good to me.

    Cheers.
    Pete
  • Marianne313
    Marianne313 Member Posts: 124
    #20
    pete43lost_at_sea said:

    i am going to start on this
    hi gary.

    It sounds good to me.

    Cheers.
    Pete

    bump
    interesting.
  • chikinkan
    chikinkan Member Posts: 1
    #21
    Marianne313 said:

    bump
    interesting.

    Colorectal stage IV survivor
    Hi,

    I am colorectal cancer stage IV with mets for over 3 years. Just found out about Cimetidine's properties in fighting cancer mets. I really would like to hear from anyone out there who has been taking this drug to fight the disease. Would love to hear from you, especially Lisa42. Let us carry on the discussion with this thread.

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