Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and Panic Attacks/Anxiety

bluerose

I just answered another post from someone who felt they were dealing with anxiety attacks and I answered him/her as I have been going through a patch of this I believe myself too. I have only had little bits of anxiety here and there but it seems to have built up big time recently with more stresses.

I also thought about this whole issue of cancer suvivors and the possibility of post traumatic stress disorder. I have actually seen an expert about this possibility with some cancer patients and he felt I have aspects of PTSD, those being 'startle responses' (jump abnormally at the smallest sound) and flashbacks of scenes dealing with my treatment periods that were harsh.

I was just wondering if anyone else has comments on these matters and if they affected you then I would like to hear about it all, if you would like to share.

Blessings, Bluerose

Barbara53

interesting question
When my dad died 3 weeks after diagnosis and I had a hard time with it, the counselor I saw said it was a form of PTSD. The way he explained it, when we don't have time to process the loss of a close loved one because of the suddenness of their leaving, we can have trouble putting it all to bed in retrospect.

Suddenness is also involved in how dogs "imprint" the fears of guns, thunder, etc. Once suddenly traumatized, the imprinted fear does not easily go away. Interesting, eh?

Although panic attacks can certainly be a part of this syndrome, they can come and go from obvious and not-so-obvious stress that has nothing to do with PTSD. Low dose valium is great for panic attacks, but doctors prefer to use drugs with many more side effects, and much higher price tags.

It also helps to remember to breathe.

SIRENAF42

PTSD
How funny that on Saturday, I was talking about this same thing with a girl freind of mine. That I am having anxiety issues and I sometimes feel angry at people when they take life for granted. Like my friend who complains about everything. I got so mad at her, I felt my hear racing and like someone was taking my breath away.. all over her whining about having sore feet LOL

I have never really connected the two, but woow, I think you are right. I think my fear of reoccurence and my own battle with cancer may be causing this.... HMMMM I wonder what one does to deal with this.

Man it never ends does it????

bluerose

Barbara53 said:

interesting question
When my dad died 3 weeks after diagnosis and I had a hard time with it, the counselor I saw said it was a form of PTSD. The way he explained it, when we don't have time to process the loss of a close loved one because of the suddenness of their leaving, we can have trouble putting it all to bed in retrospect.

Suddenness is also involved in how dogs "imprint" the fears of guns, thunder, etc. Once suddenly traumatized, the imprinted fear does not easily go away. Interesting, eh?

Although panic attacks can certainly be a part of this syndrome, they can come and go from obvious and not-so-obvious stress that has nothing to do with PTSD. Low dose valium is great for panic attacks, but doctors prefer to use drugs with many more side effects, and much higher price tags.

It also helps to remember to breathe.

Hello Barbara
Lots of issues like anxiety and stress may not have anything to do with PTSD but I am just saying that it's something to be considered for some. It's important too of course to see a reputable specialst for proper diagnosis of any disorder and not to try and diagnose yourself. I am just saying that PTSD should be taken into consideration for the traumas that can be associated with the cancer journey for some.

Blessings, Bluerose

bluerose

SIRENAF42 said:

PTSD
How funny that on Saturday, I was talking about this same thing with a girl freind of mine. That I am having anxiety issues and I sometimes feel angry at people when they take life for granted. Like my friend who complains about everything. I got so mad at her, I felt my hear racing and like someone was taking my breath away.. all over her whining about having sore feet LOL

I have never really connected the two, but woow, I think you are right. I think my fear of reoccurence and my own battle with cancer may be causing this.... HMMMM I wonder what one does to deal with this.

Man it never ends does it????

Never seems to end for some that's for sure
Like I was saying to Barbara it's important to get a proper diagnosis for anything that is affecting your life, emotional or physical. I have spoken with alot of survivors though and some of them have often wondered about the possibility of PTSD as well in their cancer journies. PTSD is pretty specific and has long since only been associated with traumas like war and witnessing horrific accidents but think of diagnosis of cancer, its life threatening too - pretty horrific or can be - and some of the scenes in our treatments I have heard can induce recurring frightening scenes and memories.

Hope your anxiety issues fade away. They aren't fun, that's for sure. Take care.

Hugs, Bluerose

Perstephanie

bluerose said:

Never seems to end for some that's for sure
Like I was saying to Barbara it's important to get a proper diagnosis for anything that is affecting your life, emotional or physical. I have spoken with alot of survivors though and some of them have often wondered about the possibility of PTSD as well in their cancer journies. PTSD is pretty specific and has long since only been associated with traumas like war and witnessing horrific accidents but think of diagnosis of cancer, its life threatening too - pretty horrific or can be - and some of the scenes in our treatments I have heard can induce recurring frightening scenes and memories.

Hope your anxiety issues fade away. They aren't fun, that's for sure. Take care.

Hugs, Bluerose

More recently PTSD has been
More recently PTSD has been talked about re: cancer survivors, actually. It's pretty interesting if you look at the DSM-IV "official" definition of PTSD and then think about it in terms of cancer... it's different but at the same time it makes sense. I've always had horrible anxiety issues and mine have gotten worse, but more due to thyroid issues and medication dosage stuff than directly due to the cancer (although I can't separate all the causes of things apart anymore).. good luck. Remember that a panic attack is not going to kill you and it will end even though they feel like they never will... just keep reminding yourself that they do end, and after a little while, it will. You don't want to get trapped in the cycle of avoiding certain things in case you get a panic attack, because that just reinforces them.

bluerose

Barbara53 said:

interesting question
When my dad died 3 weeks after diagnosis and I had a hard time with it, the counselor I saw said it was a form of PTSD. The way he explained it, when we don't have time to process the loss of a close loved one because of the suddenness of their leaving, we can have trouble putting it all to bed in retrospect.

Suddenness is also involved in how dogs "imprint" the fears of guns, thunder, etc. Once suddenly traumatized, the imprinted fear does not easily go away. Interesting, eh?

Although panic attacks can certainly be a part of this syndrome, they can come and go from obvious and not-so-obvious stress that has nothing to do with PTSD. Low dose valium is great for panic attacks, but doctors prefer to use drugs with many more side effects, and much higher price tags.

It also helps to remember to breathe.

Hey Barbara
Ya I wasn't saying anxiety and PTSD were linked necessarily, or at least didn't mean to, but they are both interesting to think about when it comes to cancer treatments/our journeys with cancer. One of my many specialists is a psychologist who specializes in trauma and anxiety and I see him once in awhile to continue to keep on track. Right now my anxiety levels are way up and funny you should mention it but deep breathing is something he has taught me, seems simple but boy does it work. I told him that sometimes I find, like when I am typing on the computer I realize HEY I'M NOT BREATHING and then I quickly start to now use the deep breathing and ever since I started that my anxiety levels are not as extreme.

I personally believe that many survivors do form if not full blown PTSD then they do have aspects of it from their experiences with cancer. I for example have a huge startle reflex that has never gone away and flashbacks come and go from all sorts of scenes during treatments. I just have heard it so often now amongst survivors I think it's worth a study. Have spoken with our cancer hospital here and they agree it is an interesting idea for sure. Heck our bodies were at war with cancer, some still are, and since PTSD is common in war times with soldiers battling the enemy, I don't know a greater and more deadly enemy in many cases than cancer. I am going to investigate this further with my counsellor, too many survivors are finding the same thing.

Thanks for your post.

Blessings,
Bluerose

bluerose

SIRENAF42 said:

PTSD
How funny that on Saturday, I was talking about this same thing with a girl freind of mine. That I am having anxiety issues and I sometimes feel angry at people when they take life for granted. Like my friend who complains about everything. I got so mad at her, I felt my hear racing and like someone was taking my breath away.. all over her whining about having sore feet LOL

I have never really connected the two, but woow, I think you are right. I think my fear of reoccurence and my own battle with cancer may be causing this.... HMMMM I wonder what one does to deal with this.

Man it never ends does it????

HI Sirenaf
My counsellor just recently taught me deep breathing, from the diaphram instead of your upper chest, take in air and push out your stomach at the same time, exhale and bring in your stomach/diaphram. It totally works to bring down my anxiety levels. such a simple thing. He is trying to teach me visualization and self hypnosis too, give your mind a break for awhile but I like my meditation better, everyone finds what works best for them. I do transcendental meditation.

I think the breathing is the key though, well there are drugs but hey if you can calm yourself down with breathing techniques - less side effects right?

Take care

Bluerose

SIRENAF42

bluerose said:

HI Sirenaf
My counsellor just recently taught me deep breathing, from the diaphram instead of your upper chest, take in air and push out your stomach at the same time, exhale and bring in your stomach/diaphram. It totally works to bring down my anxiety levels. such a simple thing. He is trying to teach me visualization and self hypnosis too, give your mind a break for awhile but I like my meditation better, everyone finds what works best for them. I do transcendental meditation.

I think the breathing is the key though, well there are drugs but hey if you can calm yourself down with breathing techniques - less side effects right?

Take care

Bluerose

Bluerose
Im thinking the breathing, extended vacations and spa days are the key. Massage therepy and the sounds of waterfalls sounds great right about now!!!

bluerose

SIRENAF42 said:

Bluerose
Im thinking the breathing, extended vacations and spa days are the key. Massage therepy and the sounds of waterfalls sounds great right about now!!!

Hey Sirenaf
Breathing and stress relief help with symptoms definately but at the same time you really need to talk things through with a good counsellor - personally I like psychologists who specialize in this kind of issue as they, to me anywho, are well rounded in this specific issue but have rounded phsycological training as well. The breathing and meditation will reduce symptoms no doubt, sure does for me, so it helps you get through the day more comfortably for sure but you also (in my humble opinion anywho) still need to go through your issues and get feedback on thought patterns and stuff like that. I am no expert, obviously - lol - but this I find from personal experience with anxiety and trauma.

Anywho hope we can keep up this discussion as I know it's going to certainly help to validatge many survivors and thereby help them in their journey to a far healthier recovery.

Blessings, Bluerose

bluerose

Perstephanie said:

More recently PTSD has been
More recently PTSD has been talked about re: cancer survivors, actually. It's pretty interesting if you look at the DSM-IV "official" definition of PTSD and then think about it in terms of cancer... it's different but at the same time it makes sense. I've always had horrible anxiety issues and mine have gotten worse, but more due to thyroid issues and medication dosage stuff than directly due to the cancer (although I can't separate all the causes of things apart anymore).. good luck. Remember that a panic attack is not going to kill you and it will end even though they feel like they never will... just keep reminding yourself that they do end, and after a little while, it will. You don't want to get trapped in the cycle of avoiding certain things in case you get a panic attack, because that just reinforces them.

Hello Perstephanie
Oh I'm sure that PTSD and cancer survivors have become a bigger issue as many of us are living longer after treatments and are presenting in our doctors offices with many similar symptoms for sure.

I have not had anxiety issues before all of this started 20 years ago, my journey with cancer I mean, so for me it has been a real shocker. One of many. It actually didn't start to be noticable (the anxiety) til about 10 years into recovery and only really nasty the last year or so. Sure amazing how anxiety sneaks up on you isn't it?

I too have found that telling yourself there is an ending to the attack does help as when they hit, as you know, it's like an aftershock of a quake - you never know if it's going to be harsher than the one before or how long will it last?

I have avoided some things due to anxiety but nothing that interferes with my daily activities and feel it's more about trauma in avoidance such as staying away from chemo treatments areas in the hospital where I received my chemo - things like that.

Currently, as I said before, I am back working with my trauma/anxiety counsellor and check in with him when I feel it's on the verge of getting out of control again. I just look back and wonder how much of some of my past negative experiences had more to do with this aspect of side effects of all my intense treatments, more than I had thought. Not that that changes anything about the anxiety or trauma, being a curious person it would be fascinating to know.

Like someone else said here though for many of us we have so many side effects from treatments, so many side effects to the many meds we are on, so many flashback scenes of anxious times and trauma surrounding our diagnosis that it is hard to tell where one issue starts and another one ends much of the time.

Anywho thanks for your input. Hope we can keep this subject going with more input from those who have experienced similar things.

Blessings, Bluerose

DMP

Startle Response
Wow, I thought this was just one of my weird reactions! Actually, I had this a lot for the first 2 weeks after surgery. Thought maybe result of drugs or something used during surgery. Now you make me wonder. Does not happen so much anymore, maybe 2 or 3 times a day, mostly as I am just starting to relax.

Peace,
Debbie

bluerose

DMP said:

Startle Response
Wow, I thought this was just one of my weird reactions! Actually, I had this a lot for the first 2 weeks after surgery. Thought maybe result of drugs or something used during surgery. Now you make me wonder. Does not happen so much anymore, maybe 2 or 3 times a day, mostly as I am just starting to relax.

Peace,
Debbie

Startle responses
Startle responses can indeed be a part of PTSD but there have to be several other key symptoms present in order for the diagnosis of course. People can become startled for a ton of reasons but it's the frequency of it and the degree of how often and under what types of circumstances that determne what is truly going on.

Of course best to not self diagnosis but make notes of your symptoms and pass it all by a knowledgeable professional. Could be nothing.

Blessings,
Bluerose

Trew

SIRENAF42 said:

PTSD
How funny that on Saturday, I was talking about this same thing with a girl freind of mine. That I am having anxiety issues and I sometimes feel angry at people when they take life for granted. Like my friend who complains about everything. I got so mad at her, I felt my hear racing and like someone was taking my breath away.. all over her whining about having sore feet LOL

I have never really connected the two, but woow, I think you are right. I think my fear of reoccurence and my own battle with cancer may be causing this.... HMMMM I wonder what one does to deal with this.

Man it never ends does it????

I'm one year into this
I'm one year into this cancer thingie. Surgery and radiation are behind me, but there is a real possiblity of reoccurance- I think of that, too. PSTD may explain the deep sense of loss that stays with me all the time.

RE the future, I know one does not need to worry about trouble to come, the present has enough, but planning the things left undone yet to do is a challenge. I am 61, and I have always wanted to hike the CDT from Mexico to Canada. I still want to do this, but now I have both age and reoccurance to push me.

My, I do hate this cancer thing as we all do. Can't go back.....

neephee

Trew said:

I'm one year into this
I'm one year into this cancer thingie. Surgery and radiation are behind me, but there is a real possiblity of reoccurance- I think of that, too. PSTD may explain the deep sense of loss that stays with me all the time.

RE the future, I know one does not need to worry about trouble to come, the present has enough, but planning the things left undone yet to do is a challenge. I am 61, and I have always wanted to hike the CDT from Mexico to Canada. I still want to do this, but now I have both age and reoccurance to push me.

My, I do hate this cancer thing as we all do. Can't go back.....

moving forward
Cancer has a way of hanging over us like a bad dream. It is very difficult to get over the fact that it can come back at any time, but as the weeks turn into months, and the months turn into years, you begin to realize that you can start to plan the things you want to do. It may take a while to gain confidence in your dreams again, so please, be patient with yourself. It's only been a year, which is really not enough time to digest everything you've been through. Yes, it will change how you look at and approach your life from here on out, but that's not a bad thing in most cases.

If you are experiencing life limiting anxiety symptoms, see your doctor. I was home bound for 3 years before I sought treatment for my anxiety. There are a number of things your doctor can prescribe, and/or he may refer you to a specialist, so you really don't have let PSTD keep you from living out the rest of your life.

bluerose

Trew said:

I'm one year into this
I'm one year into this cancer thingie. Surgery and radiation are behind me, but there is a real possiblity of reoccurance- I think of that, too. PSTD may explain the deep sense of loss that stays with me all the time.

RE the future, I know one does not need to worry about trouble to come, the present has enough, but planning the things left undone yet to do is a challenge. I am 61, and I have always wanted to hike the CDT from Mexico to Canada. I still want to do this, but now I have both age and reoccurance to push me.

My, I do hate this cancer thing as we all do. Can't go back.....

Hey Trew
I agree with Neephee about the anxiety issues. Don't let that go for too long without being seen by a specialist, one who deals with anxiety and trauma is best as far as I am concerned and a psychologist if you can. Anxiety can be very difficult if left unchecked, I have gone through that and still it rears it's head every now and again when I least expect it. I have a trauma and anxiety councellor and he has helped me with deep breathing which has really helped plus counselled me in being more nurturing towards myself by validating my emotions instead of stuffing them down. I hope you look into this kind of counselling as PTSD and anxiety need proper diagnosis and there is help for both. If you find anxiety interring with your lifestyle do give this a thought.

I hope you are able to go ahead with your dreams of that trip and the way I always looked at the fear of recurrance stopping me from doing many things is by thinking of surviving many years without a recurrance but realizing I did nothing for all those years. That would be a shame wouldn't it? I mean the cancer wouldn't have stopped you, the fear did. Something to think about. I am a 20 year survivor by the way.

Blessings,

Bluerose

halsons

panic attacks
You brought up a subject that I am dealing with right now with my 10 year old daughter. My husband her dad just died three months ago of Esophegeal Cancer. She has been ok but this past month started the panic attacks and had bad stomach aches and acid reflux symtoms. She also has been having bad dreams about her dad coming back to hurt all of us. I am in the process of getting her into to see someone for some counseling other than hospice consuling. I do think she is not making this up it is just very hard to watch and I feel so helpless knowing what to do.

bluerose

halsons said:

panic attacks
You brought up a subject that I am dealing with right now with my 10 year old daughter. My husband her dad just died three months ago of Esophegeal Cancer. She has been ok but this past month started the panic attacks and had bad stomach aches and acid reflux symtoms. She also has been having bad dreams about her dad coming back to hurt all of us. I am in the process of getting her into to see someone for some counseling other than hospice consuling. I do think she is not making this up it is just very hard to watch and I feel so helpless knowing what to do.

So sorry to hear of your loss and challenges
Hello Halsons,

First off please accept my condolances on the recent passing of your husband and now your challenges ahead with you your daughter and what you think might be panic attacks.

Of course my posting had to do with survivors/patients who developed anxiety or PTSD or panic attacks but of course as you well know once cancer is in a family it affects everyone to some degree. You are doing the very best thing getting your daughter into grief conselling and you may also look for someone, a psychologist preferrably who deals with anxiety disorders. These attacks seem to just materiliaze out of nowhere at least that is how it happened to me.

One thing that has really helped me, and the counsellor will no doubt teach your daughter this, is deep breathing from the abdomen. When she feels an attack coming on
you get her to put her hand flat on her chest and breath in deeply but from her stomach area - pushing the stomach out as she breaths in so she isn't breathing shallowly from the chest. If she does that enough times, even 5 or 6 time slowly then more likely than not the attack will simmer down alot. This sounds so simple it seems useless but it totally works. Also just telling her that this attack WILL PASS helps too as when you have one it's like it will never pass and just worse and worse but knowing it will pass soon really makes a difference.

Anyways I hope it turns out that the counsellor will be able to help your daughter sooner rather than later and in time she will learn better coping skills to get her through this grieving process.

Blessings to you and yours, Bluerose.

ruthelizabeth

bluerose said:

So sorry to hear of your loss and challenges
Hello Halsons,

First off please accept my condolances on the recent passing of your husband and now your challenges ahead with you your daughter and what you think might be panic attacks.

Of course my posting had to do with survivors/patients who developed anxiety or PTSD or panic attacks but of course as you well know once cancer is in a family it affects everyone to some degree. You are doing the very best thing getting your daughter into grief conselling and you may also look for someone, a psychologist preferrably who deals with anxiety disorders. These attacks seem to just materiliaze out of nowhere at least that is how it happened to me.

One thing that has really helped me, and the counsellor will no doubt teach your daughter this, is deep breathing from the abdomen. When she feels an attack coming on
you get her to put her hand flat on her chest and breath in deeply but from her stomach area - pushing the stomach out as she breaths in so she isn't breathing shallowly from the chest. If she does that enough times, even 5 or 6 time slowly then more likely than not the attack will simmer down alot. This sounds so simple it seems useless but it totally works. Also just telling her that this attack WILL PASS helps too as when you have one it's like it will never pass and just worse and worse but knowing it will pass soon really makes a difference.

Anyways I hope it turns out that the counsellor will be able to help your daughter sooner rather than later and in time she will learn better coping skills to get her through this grieving process.

Blessings to you and yours, Bluerose.

Not PTSD
I am definitely going to try to remember to breathe, but I know what I'm dealing with isn't PTSD. It is Don's stepdaughter threatening me. She tried to break into the house and I am pressing charges and have a temporary restraining order. Now her mother and her mother's boyfriend (a lawyer) are threatening to sue me for asking for a restraining order. Since the girl (22) has been violent before, but has never been arrested -- the whole family protected her -- I expect them to do all they can to make me look nasty or demented or to keep this going until I either give up, go broke from lawyer's fees or simply get too sick to fight any longer.

The house is locked all the time. I hide my car when I'm at work. I rekeyed the house before she tried to break in which saved me that time. I have cans of pepper in various rooms. The hurricane shutters are never completely up and the windows are only open if the shutters are down. I find myself looking out the peephole in the door when I go past it. She has beaten me up over the seven years Don and I were married. The day after the wedding was the first time; I had bruises and bite marks on my honeymoon. I am very frightened of her.

I always tried to be good to all Don's children. Even after she tried to break in, I still gave her and all the children copies I bought of the video from Don's visitation. I don't wish her ill. I just want to be safe.

If Don were here, he'd never let her hurt me. He loved her and made allowances for her behavior and would never call the police, but he told her he'd deck her if she laid a hand on me. I haven't even had time to miss him. I wish we were together.

bluerose

ruthelizabeth said:

Not PTSD
I am definitely going to try to remember to breathe, but I know what I'm dealing with isn't PTSD. It is Don's stepdaughter threatening me. She tried to break into the house and I am pressing charges and have a temporary restraining order. Now her mother and her mother's boyfriend (a lawyer) are threatening to sue me for asking for a restraining order. Since the girl (22) has been violent before, but has never been arrested -- the whole family protected her -- I expect them to do all they can to make me look nasty or demented or to keep this going until I either give up, go broke from lawyer's fees or simply get too sick to fight any longer.

The house is locked all the time. I hide my car when I'm at work. I rekeyed the house before she tried to break in which saved me that time. I have cans of pepper in various rooms. The hurricane shutters are never completely up and the windows are only open if the shutters are down. I find myself looking out the peephole in the door when I go past it. She has beaten me up over the seven years Don and I were married. The day after the wedding was the first time; I had bruises and bite marks on my honeymoon. I am very frightened of her.

I always tried to be good to all Don's children. Even after she tried to break in, I still gave her and all the children copies I bought of the video from Don's visitation. I don't wish her ill. I just want to be safe.

If Don were here, he'd never let her hurt me. He loved her and made allowances for her behavior and would never call the police, but he told her he'd deck her if she laid a hand on me. I haven't even had time to miss him. I wish we were together.

Ruth you have to seek help
Ruth what you are going through is nothing short of horrendous and that seems like an understatement. Are you under a doctor's care for stress and trauma? You may not have PTSD now but you could be headed for it with all the trauma you are going through with this situation. I don't know all of the details of course but it seems clear that you need protection and what you have so far I'm not so sure is enough. Have you anywhere you can go to stay with someone for awhile so you can get your head together? What about a woman's shelter would that help?

You certainly do have to go through the normal stages of grieving for Don but you are so stuck in turmoil and fear with this daughter you can't and you just have to see someone who can help you. Please stay safe and let us know how you are doing. Hugs. God Bless, Blueroses

halsons

bluerose said:

So sorry to hear of your loss and challenges
Hello Halsons,

First off please accept my condolances on the recent passing of your husband and now your challenges ahead with you your daughter and what you think might be panic attacks.

Of course my posting had to do with survivors/patients who developed anxiety or PTSD or panic attacks but of course as you well know once cancer is in a family it affects everyone to some degree. You are doing the very best thing getting your daughter into grief conselling and you may also look for someone, a psychologist preferrably who deals with anxiety disorders. These attacks seem to just materiliaze out of nowhere at least that is how it happened to me.

One thing that has really helped me, and the counsellor will no doubt teach your daughter this, is deep breathing from the abdomen. When she feels an attack coming on
you get her to put her hand flat on her chest and breath in deeply but from her stomach area - pushing the stomach out as she breaths in so she isn't breathing shallowly from the chest. If she does that enough times, even 5 or 6 time slowly then more likely than not the attack will simmer down alot. This sounds so simple it seems useless but it totally works. Also just telling her that this attack WILL PASS helps too as when you have one it's like it will never pass and just worse and worse but knowing it will pass soon really makes a difference.

Anyways I hope it turns out that the counsellor will be able to help your daughter sooner rather than later and in time she will learn better coping skills to get her through this grieving process.

Blessings to you and yours, Bluerose.

getting my daughter help
Thanks for the information on getting someone who deals with anxiety disorders. I will start the search next week. My daughter also seems to have her attacks just come out of the blue. She even runs up to me and makes me feel her heart to make sure it is beating. This sometimes can last for an hour or so and it is very hard to get her to calm down.She makes me feel her heart about every 3 seconds or so and this continues for a long time. I like the idea of deep breathing and will make sure the counsler touches on that tomorrow. The boys of mine are 22,19, and 17 and my daughter is 10. We are all walking this weekend for Relay for Life. I am hoping this also will help the kids a little by seeing others that have been affected by cancer and by walking maybe will give them an outlet for the pain. Wish us luck and thanks for the ideas, I know this will make a big difference.