As I sit on the sideline watching this debate.........
Yet, when we bring up religion all hell breaks loose (pun intended)......
I was in the last one, not sure I didn't start it, but nonetheless I learned several things, both helping me, and on both sides.
First, I do go to church and I do believe...and I learned in the last Great Debate , that this song plays on both sides...
I am adamant in my beliefs but I do not use them unless I think it deems it. A response to Phil knowing his beliefs would end as most of mine do now (Love and Hope). A response to Lisa42 knowing her beliefs as I do might end as God Bless...
During the last debate I learned some very important lessons. One, is that others feel just as strongly as you do about their beliefs so to critic them is to be a hippocrite yourself, and yes , I was PM'd and was informed that I was a hippocrite and that I should also quit calling ladies hun, that it was demeaning.....Well, ladies is it ? I am normally a very warm , cuddly teddy bear and sweetie, hun, or girlfriend is simply a term used to show affection and thoughtfulness. But anyway, my concern here is that there is a freedom of speech clause at risk here. We do have the freedom of speech in here, and I love it that way. I have spoken with soccerfreaks also on here in another thread and he is very articulate , well read, and is an agnostic, or unknower if you will. Yet, I do not feel threatened by any post he makes, I use to think "How arrogant" but since then I have noticed that by looking in the mirror I saw someone who was doing the exact thing he was admonishing someone else for doing, speaking their peace. I think that Phil and I have met halfway on everything. He knows my stand and I know his , and both of us are able to converse at will and never step on each others toes while doing it (unless we want some exercise).
For the most part, I have met some wonderful people here, people that for the life of me mean everything to me and I have never met any of them......yet........and through all of this I have learned that to allow someone to let it out means more than just talk..It means if they need to shout out to the Man upstairs, then they deserve to do so...On the other hand we or I will say I as a believer have to assure myself that if a non believer shouts out Satan or blasphemes we have to allow him his freedom of speech as well....for you need to understand that freedom of speech allows them the same freedom as me...I am not taking nor will I ever take another side on this debate...it is a losing proposition to debate religion or politics.....but its still a right to do so for every American citizen....and my sign offs will end as I see fit , but with taste, and disgression as to whom I am addressing...simply as a courtesy to my fellow semi colon men and women, and anyone else I speak with......Love Hope and Bless all of you.......
I have learned that you can't have it one way and not the other ...It has to be all or none...
Comments
-
Thank you for your post
Thank you for your post Buzzard. Very thoughtful of you. I for one want it to be known that when you say hon, sweetie etc. I find it very endearing and take it as you mean it. Terms of endearment.
I have not been posting much lately as I'm having trouble with concentration and putting my thoughts into words. I have very much love and respect for all who post here. I have been hesitant to post anything because I'm afraid that I will unintentionally offend someone.I would never do that intentionally. I type long posts and then read them before posting and end up deleting them. When I first came here I felt a freedom to respond, ask questions, vent etc. without even thinking. Now I find myself second guessing everything I write. What I'm trying to say is......lets all give each other the benefit of the doubt. Let's give grace to everyone...let's believe that we all want only the best for each other, let's love and respect one another in our diversity. Let's accept each other for who we are. That is what makes us so unique, our differences. We aren't helping anyone by arguing amongst ourselves. I wonder how I would feel if I had just come here for the first time and saw all this division or if I just lost a loved one who was a part of this wonderful family.
Please let us all try to care for one another, respect one another, and begin helping one another again.
Please take this the way I mean it...with love, respect and a desire for healing to take place.
Debbie (gramma) I'm going to push post now before I chicken out. Hehe0 -
I was waiting for your response.unknown said:This comment has been removed by the Moderator
I was waiting for your response. You are a good man! Thank you for taking the sting out.0 -
Hey Buzzard
I was wondering where you were! You know me and I know you, at least as much as anyone can really know someone through their posts. Most of us are probably the same in here as they are on the outside. Then there are those who would NEVER act as they do on here in the "real world" but the anonymity, and lack of a face to face encounter makes some people feel like they can act however they want because no one can see them.
I hope you read my post and what I politely requested. It had NOTHING to do with stifling free speech at all. All I requested was that maybe that post asking for Prayer Requests for the week might be better suited in the Religion, Spirituality, and Meditation forum.
"There is a place that has been set aside for this type of post over in the Spirituality, Prayer, and Meditation thread. I totally understand that prayer for many, is a part of the support. That is why there is a section just for that."
I believe in free speech, you know that about me. I also believe in the power of prayer and positive healing thoughts. It's certainly a very gray area when we get into prayer and posting prayer requests in my opinion which is why I requested/suggested that just maybe it might be more in line with how the forums are set up to be over there. I obviously knew, and I said as much, that this would NOT be a popular opinion at all but while free speech lets you say what you want, you can not yell FIRE in a movie theater. Isn't yelling fire just an expression of free speech? Could I have continued to look the other was with that post? Certainly I could have. Could that post have been moved or written in the Religion forum? Certainly it could have. Tolerance on this forum has seemed to mean "don't look at it if you don't like/agree with it". If it were in the Religion forum I could do just that if I wanted to but I doubt I would have. I'm sure I would have chimed in. You know I post there as you have yourself and you also know that I do not attack people but encourage them to post their beliefs and thank them when they do. Yes, I will discuss and throw questions at them but that forum is for discussion or religion.
I think that some of this has to do with "Netiquette", the guidelines of being part of a public forum. Manners is part of it too.
There have been a slew of attacks and name-calling directed at me. I have found that the attacks I read made references to imaginary comments people think I made. I responded a few times but I'm not visiting those posts so if "you guys", and you know who you are, wish to tell me something then email me because I am not seeking them out and responding to them anymore. I do not need to justify nor do I wish to give you the attention you are seeking. People who have been here a while know me. They can draw their own conclusions or do nothing at all. What you guys post seems to stem from a personal beef you have since I don't agree with you and visa-versa. I really do not care. I do appreciate all of the requests from you for me to take a hike, or take a hike to he11. All that has done is made me want to stay and continue to help those who need it so I do thank you for that.
So if you guys want to get a rise, put lifts in your shoes or go on an elevator.0 -
Thank you
Thank you for your post.
Our efforts need to be directed against the common enemy, Cancer.
As many others have posted...I will take good wishes for recovery and health in whatever form they come...because I know they come from truely good hearts.
By the way, at my age, being called 'hun or sweetie, etc.' brings a smile not a frown! lol
Wishing all here only good things in this fight against Cancer...and in every aspect of their lives.0 -
Glad you are gonna stay.PhillieG said:Hey Buzzard
I was wondering where you were! You know me and I know you, at least as much as anyone can really know someone through their posts. Most of us are probably the same in here as they are on the outside. Then there are those who would NEVER act as they do on here in the "real world" but the anonymity, and lack of a face to face encounter makes some people feel like they can act however they want because no one can see them.
I hope you read my post and what I politely requested. It had NOTHING to do with stifling free speech at all. All I requested was that maybe that post asking for Prayer Requests for the week might be better suited in the Religion, Spirituality, and Meditation forum.
"There is a place that has been set aside for this type of post over in the Spirituality, Prayer, and Meditation thread. I totally understand that prayer for many, is a part of the support. That is why there is a section just for that."
I believe in free speech, you know that about me. I also believe in the power of prayer and positive healing thoughts. It's certainly a very gray area when we get into prayer and posting prayer requests in my opinion which is why I requested/suggested that just maybe it might be more in line with how the forums are set up to be over there. I obviously knew, and I said as much, that this would NOT be a popular opinion at all but while free speech lets you say what you want, you can not yell FIRE in a movie theater. Isn't yelling fire just an expression of free speech? Could I have continued to look the other was with that post? Certainly I could have. Could that post have been moved or written in the Religion forum? Certainly it could have. Tolerance on this forum has seemed to mean "don't look at it if you don't like/agree with it". If it were in the Religion forum I could do just that if I wanted to but I doubt I would have. I'm sure I would have chimed in. You know I post there as you have yourself and you also know that I do not attack people but encourage them to post their beliefs and thank them when they do. Yes, I will discuss and throw questions at them but that forum is for discussion or religion.
I think that some of this has to do with "Netiquette", the guidelines of being part of a public forum. Manners is part of it too.
There have been a slew of attacks and name-calling directed at me. I have found that the attacks I read made references to imaginary comments people think I made. I responded a few times but I'm not visiting those posts so if "you guys", and you know who you are, wish to tell me something then email me because I am not seeking them out and responding to them anymore. I do not need to justify nor do I wish to give you the attention you are seeking. People who have been here a while know me. They can draw their own conclusions or do nothing at all. What you guys post seems to stem from a personal beef you have since I don't agree with you and visa-versa. I really do not care. I do appreciate all of the requests from you for me to take a hike, or take a hike to he11. All that has done is made me want to stay and continue to help those who need it so I do thank you for that.
So if you guys want to get a rise, put lifts in your shoes or go on an elevator.
Glad you are gonna stay.
The experiences of you and others who have been fighting cancer for a long time are often the best information to be found. It gives others of us more to consider about how to fight this dreaded disease.
May we all find what we need to help make it one day at a time and plan for a long future.0 -
Wonderful
Hey, Clift.
Again, you have said just what needed to be said to calm the waters. Thank you!
I'm a southern girl, so it doesn't bother me at all if you call me "Hun" or anything like that. I'm maybe somewhat shyer about it here, but in person I'm just as apt to call someone "Babe" as anything else.
Thank you for being you.
*hugs*
Gail0 -
Buzzard
I too was sitting this one out - painful as it was, I was watching to see how it played out and was hoping for a quick resolution.
Yours are great words and I am glad to hear from you. I wrote this to the group, but it was on Roy's (shrevesbud) post on his passing. I'll leave it again here, since you opened up this post with your thoughts:
Everyone - we are LOSING our friends here everyday - this is the BIG PICTURE. It saddens me that our energies are being expended on anger among our family here. I came here to help and be supportive - and I've spent my entire time trying to do that. To see Our World come so unglued like this, in such a short time is very hurtful to me. Can we please get back to the business of helping, supporting and loving one another? Please?
All of this bitterness is not doing anyone any good - and for new people coming here to look for support and answers, and seeing what's going on, will certainly turn them away from here. And in the hour they so desperately are looking for answers and hope.
I just logged on and saw the other posts and then I read this one of Adrian's and it's a stark contrast, isn't it?
I fell in love with this board and the people on it when I found it. It took me 5-years of my cancer battle to find this "safe haven"...there is too little time to be "wasting" sniping at one another. We're all better than this.
With Respect and Love
-Craig0 -
Having found this sit early last October,Sundanceh said:Buzzard
I too was sitting this one out - painful as it was, I was watching to see how it played out and was hoping for a quick resolution.
Yours are great words and I am glad to hear from you. I wrote this to the group, but it was on Roy's (shrevesbud) post on his passing. I'll leave it again here, since you opened up this post with your thoughts:
Everyone - we are LOSING our friends here everyday - this is the BIG PICTURE. It saddens me that our energies are being expended on anger among our family here. I came here to help and be supportive - and I've spent my entire time trying to do that. To see Our World come so unglued like this, in such a short time is very hurtful to me. Can we please get back to the business of helping, supporting and loving one another? Please?
All of this bitterness is not doing anyone any good - and for new people coming here to look for support and answers, and seeing what's going on, will certainly turn them away from here. And in the hour they so desperately are looking for answers and hope.
I just logged on and saw the other posts and then I read this one of Adrian's and it's a stark contrast, isn't it?
I fell in love with this board and the people on it when I found it. It took me 5-years of my cancer battle to find this "safe haven"...there is too little time to be "wasting" sniping at one another. We're all better than this.
With Respect and Love
-Craig
it has proven to be a lifesaver. While my doctors have/had provided me with info as to what to expect during my treatment,etc the people on this site have given me info from experience which has proven priceless (wish I knew of site back in May, 09 when my battle began) I don't think anyone comes to this site because they wanted to. Like myself, I think most logged on for help, be it moral support, empirical knowledge, inspiration, someone to talk/vent to,whatever. Whether religion should be discussed here is not my call but we all have the option to read or not read postings, to respond or not respond.To argue publically while some amongst us are getting weaker and losing their battle, I think, hurts everyone. That some,unfortunately, die, there are others joining this site, just like in the greater world of life.For what its worth, thats my opinion, let the chips fall where they may......Steve0 -
I agree with StevecoloCan said:Having found this sit early last October,
it has proven to be a lifesaver. While my doctors have/had provided me with info as to what to expect during my treatment,etc the people on this site have given me info from experience which has proven priceless (wish I knew of site back in May, 09 when my battle began) I don't think anyone comes to this site because they wanted to. Like myself, I think most logged on for help, be it moral support, empirical knowledge, inspiration, someone to talk/vent to,whatever. Whether religion should be discussed here is not my call but we all have the option to read or not read postings, to respond or not respond.To argue publically while some amongst us are getting weaker and losing their battle, I think, hurts everyone. That some,unfortunately, die, there are others joining this site, just like in the greater world of life.For what its worth, thats my opinion, let the chips fall where they may......Steve
I care for you all no matter what you beleive.
Life is funny sometimes
Brooks0 -
Luna Loco
It must be the full moon. The inmates are acting up again......
I am sooooooooo glad I'm not in the thick of this debate. Everyone knows I'm a Jesus Freak so I say BRING ON THE PRAYERS!
I do have to say, Phil has always been very respectful to me of my Jesus beliefs. Just wanted to add that for what it's worth. $ .02
peace, emily
jeremiah 30:170 -
Thank you all for the rebuttalsjust4Brooks said:I agree with Steve
I care for you all no matter what you beleive.
Life is funny sometimes
Brooks
but this is a place of refuge for all fo us that need it. We are gatekeepers for all who are lost, scared, emotionally drained, and those that need a direction , a calming hand to hold when their live goes south on them. They depend on us to be strong for them, until they can be strong for themselves, as we all started here, and as we pass on the torch to keep this sane station alive and keep the new people coming in at an alarming rate calm and try our best to wrestle our own lives while we try and give them the right paths to follow as well.
We all are an integral part of this forum, and all play a major role in here. We actually feed off each other to give someone new an ease or an escape where before was an unimaginable bad dream that they could never wake up and it would be gone. We have all had that feeling, and we all have had the feeling of despair. Then comes this place. A sanctuary of Hope and Love, with some of the most intellectual and loving people of all walks of life. It is simply amazing how so much can be learned in here and how so many of the ones doing the hardest battles still take the time from their lives through all they go through and can still be the front runners in the guidance department.
To be Stage 4 and still take the time to share Hope and Love with others just amazes me.
My applause to all the stage 4 past and present that help us everyday, giving up time they could spend with their own family to help support their other family here.
Everything I write in here now I try to write as if my sons or daughters are reading it also. I want them to see how these people in here share their feelings with others so that maybe some of the personna in here will rub off on them. I want them to see how to treat others. This is a great place for lessons learned.
I just want for people to forget the old and bring on the new. There is a place for different threads to be posted, there are threads for different cancers, there are threads for different categories such as emotional, caregiver, young survivors, etc. I am old enough that nothing hardly bothers me anymore so if this disturbs anyone, don't take it personal, its not directed at any one individual. Its like my preacher told me once, he said "Son, Im not in the business of making all people happy, Im in the business of serving the Lord"....so not everyone is gonna be happy all of the time. But name calling needs to stop, period. If anyone wants to call me a terd, go ahead, I get called worse than that everyday and Im still here. Warning though, if ya call me a terd and I ever see ya in person, Im gonna open my bag on ya and you think your farts stink !!! So, please don't go there, it makes my own eyes water...
Im gonna take any lengthy views that I have on my faith and also any verses that I may want to share and I will either pm them to the people that I want to receive them or I am going to go to the Spirituality thread and post away on them in there.
Follow suit if you like or don't if you dislike, its a free country and Im going to treat my friends, believers, non believers, or agnostics as they want to be treated, as my friends period. I will not force my views on them as I wish them to do the same in retrospect, and Im sure that will be the case. Im not losing or giving up a fight, there was never one to begin with, and with cancer trivial things such as squabbles seem just as they are, trivial. One of the friends was the 2nd person to ever speak to me when I came in here lost, scared, and emotionally a wreck. He did not turn his back on me ever, and I will forever remember that. Beliefs have nothing to do with what he gave me when I needed it most. Knowledge, and a place I could run to to be comforted when there was no comfort to be found. Yes, he can sometimes seem to be an ****, but thats a fascade he hides behind because everyday of life is a gift to him, every day of his life he struggles with coping, work, and then in here to be haggled, not no but hell no, I wouldn't listen to the ridicule he has either without some type of rebuttal. If I lose every friend in here I have over this then at least I have stated my thoughts and I can rest easy knowing I told the truth as I feel I needed to...I intend on all of you living til your 120 years old. I also intend on people getting back to what made this the "Hotspot" for cancer newbies. A place where all the knowledge originates from, a place where anyone would be honored to be a part of this family as I am. A place where it was a year ago that was the reason I stayed and now have met so many wonderful people.
This is a place for us all, lets keep it that way. There's plenty of room without crowding the bed so scoot over and lets all get a little peace and quiet.
and just for chits and giggles....I wouldn't have anyone to haggle with if he left and thats what keeps me young.....
Love Hope and M & M's..........Buzzard0 -
I am new to these boards, but not I know we are a real family. Only family fights like this and can still love each other LOL
Buzz, just in case your keeping track hun or sweetie doesn't bother me either
Tina0 -
To Funnylostit2003 said:I am new to these boards, but not I know we are a real family. Only family fights like this and can still love each other LOL
Buzz, just in case your keeping track hun or sweetie doesn't bother me either
Tina
You guys really make me laugh
0 -
no flames from pluckey...Buzzard said:Thank you all for the rebuttals
but this is a place of refuge for all fo us that need it. We are gatekeepers for all who are lost, scared, emotionally drained, and those that need a direction , a calming hand to hold when their live goes south on them. They depend on us to be strong for them, until they can be strong for themselves, as we all started here, and as we pass on the torch to keep this sane station alive and keep the new people coming in at an alarming rate calm and try our best to wrestle our own lives while we try and give them the right paths to follow as well.
We all are an integral part of this forum, and all play a major role in here. We actually feed off each other to give someone new an ease or an escape where before was an unimaginable bad dream that they could never wake up and it would be gone. We have all had that feeling, and we all have had the feeling of despair. Then comes this place. A sanctuary of Hope and Love, with some of the most intellectual and loving people of all walks of life. It is simply amazing how so much can be learned in here and how so many of the ones doing the hardest battles still take the time from their lives through all they go through and can still be the front runners in the guidance department.
To be Stage 4 and still take the time to share Hope and Love with others just amazes me.
My applause to all the stage 4 past and present that help us everyday, giving up time they could spend with their own family to help support their other family here.
Everything I write in here now I try to write as if my sons or daughters are reading it also. I want them to see how these people in here share their feelings with others so that maybe some of the personna in here will rub off on them. I want them to see how to treat others. This is a great place for lessons learned.
I just want for people to forget the old and bring on the new. There is a place for different threads to be posted, there are threads for different cancers, there are threads for different categories such as emotional, caregiver, young survivors, etc. I am old enough that nothing hardly bothers me anymore so if this disturbs anyone, don't take it personal, its not directed at any one individual. Its like my preacher told me once, he said "Son, Im not in the business of making all people happy, Im in the business of serving the Lord"....so not everyone is gonna be happy all of the time. But name calling needs to stop, period. If anyone wants to call me a terd, go ahead, I get called worse than that everyday and Im still here. Warning though, if ya call me a terd and I ever see ya in person, Im gonna open my bag on ya and you think your farts stink !!! So, please don't go there, it makes my own eyes water...
Im gonna take any lengthy views that I have on my faith and also any verses that I may want to share and I will either pm them to the people that I want to receive them or I am going to go to the Spirituality thread and post away on them in there.
Follow suit if you like or don't if you dislike, its a free country and Im going to treat my friends, believers, non believers, or agnostics as they want to be treated, as my friends period. I will not force my views on them as I wish them to do the same in retrospect, and Im sure that will be the case. Im not losing or giving up a fight, there was never one to begin with, and with cancer trivial things such as squabbles seem just as they are, trivial. One of the friends was the 2nd person to ever speak to me when I came in here lost, scared, and emotionally a wreck. He did not turn his back on me ever, and I will forever remember that. Beliefs have nothing to do with what he gave me when I needed it most. Knowledge, and a place I could run to to be comforted when there was no comfort to be found. Yes, he can sometimes seem to be an ****, but thats a fascade he hides behind because everyday of life is a gift to him, every day of his life he struggles with coping, work, and then in here to be haggled, not no but hell no, I wouldn't listen to the ridicule he has either without some type of rebuttal. If I lose every friend in here I have over this then at least I have stated my thoughts and I can rest easy knowing I told the truth as I feel I needed to...I intend on all of you living til your 120 years old. I also intend on people getting back to what made this the "Hotspot" for cancer newbies. A place where all the knowledge originates from, a place where anyone would be honored to be a part of this family as I am. A place where it was a year ago that was the reason I stayed and now have met so many wonderful people.
This is a place for us all, lets keep it that way. There's plenty of room without crowding the bed so scoot over and lets all get a little peace and quiet.
and just for chits and giggles....I wouldn't have anyone to haggle with if he left and thats what keeps me young.....
Love Hope and M & M's..........Buzzard
i appreciate everyone's input, no matter what.
Buzzard, you are a gem, luv ya and keep on posting!
Peggy0 -
anonymous
I still cannot get quote to work!
Phil said: Most of us are probably the same in here as they are on the outside. Then there are those who would NEVER act as they do on here in the "real world" but the anonymity, and lack of a face to face encounter makes some people feel like they can act however they want because no one can see them. End of Quote
This is just one reason I use my real name and real location, because I am the same here as in real life.
Diane
) 0 -
Family
I believe we are family and like it was already pointed out, families fight, and then life goes on. I totally appreciate everyeone here and all their different beliefs, its what makes each of us their own person. Regardless of religion, we all have one thing in common and that is cancer, we all struggle with it either as having it, or caring for someone that does. This has always been a place for anyone to come and be welcomed. For me this board holds no borders.
This board and everyone on it has and continues to be such a great support for me. I love everyone here, and pray for everyone (my beliefs).
I just want us all to be healthy and happy.
Buzz, hun or sweetie is fine with me, if you keeping track.
Phil, love ya man, and your views o nthings, always makes me think and sometimes see the other side of things, Keep on!!
God Bless
Beth0
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