Not depression
Comments
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Back to Nature?lizzydavis said:Black Dog
This is a guest post from John Van Sickel of Walking the Black Dog, a blog about overcoming depression.
Over 120 million people worldwide are affected by the black dog of depression, as Sir Winston Churchill described it. Depression is one of the leading causes of disability, missed work, broken relationships and more.
Chances are you or someone you know will suffer from it in your lifetime.
It is truly one of the most devastating of dis-eases (not at ease!) in that it robs you of the ability to simply enjoy life. Activities that you used to enjoy leave you feeling empty. Interacting with friends, family and coworkers can be overwhelming.
So what can we do? Traditional routes of therapy and even medication are effective and should definitely be considered if depression is disrupting your life.
However there are other, natural steps to take that can, over time, be very effective. In fact, some studies have shown these to be as effective (or more so) than traditional therapies.
As an added bonus these are good lifestyle changes that will enhance anyone’s life, depressed or not, and most don’t cost a thing!
Here are the very practical caveman therapies for modern men and women.
1. Get outside. Our caveman friends saw lots of daylight; getting up at sunrise and going to sleep at sunset. Exposure to bright sunlight for 30 minutes a day either through sunlight or a light made for this, helps keep your internal clock set. This circadian rhythm helps to regulate our sleep/wake cycle and insures a good night’s sleep which in turn, helps our physical and mental health. Don’t wear sunglasses though; the exposure must come through your eyes!
2. Aerobic Exercise. Primitive folks had to forage or work in the fields for their food. 30 minutes at least 3 times a week means those ‘runner’s high’ endorphins get released regularly. It’s also a good way to work through and release stress. You don’t have to run a marathon, just get your heart rate up to your target range – around 120 to 160 beats per minute depending on your age and condition. Walking works wonders. Get your doctor’s approval first!
3. Omega-3 fatty acids. 1,000 mg daily. Omega-3’s aid in the brain’s neuron connectivity. Enteric coated capsules help prevent burping the fishy tasting oil but you can also freeze them. Throw in a good multi-vitamin and avoid overly processed foods in favor of complex carbohydrates (whole grains), fish, free range meats, & vegetables and you’re good to go.
4. Sleep. Change your sleep routine so that it’s more conducive to a good night’s rest. Turn your lights down and go to bed at the same time everynight. Turn the t.v. off. Engage in calming, quiet activities like reading, listening to soft music, taking a warm bath, rubbing soothing lotion on your body, drink sweet dreams hot tea, etc. Avoid caffeine and alcohol. Don’t work late or do other stressful activities that cause your mind to race. Think positive & good thoughts - Remember a tired body and quiet mind are the requirements for quality sleep.
5. Socialize. Remember the Amish farmer has his family and community to fall back on for support. There’s no reason you can’t too. Involve yourself with close friends and family. You don’t have to engage in heavy conversations about your plight, just have fun. Keep it simple and go to a movie, visit an art gallery or museum, go to a ball game, grab a cup of coffee or have a meal together. Just be with other people and your feelings of isolation will fade. Do this face to face (not online!) and do it regularly.
6. Watch your thinking! Anti-rumination strategy is vital to breaking out of depression and other emotional ruts. Become aware of those times you dwell on the negatives in your life – both real or imagined – and stop them. It takes work and persistence but if you constantly tell yourself to ’stop it’ when you start to go over and over the negatives, then you are building a positive habit that will change your life for the better. Whether it’s the jerk who cut you off in traffic or something a little closer to home, don’t give yourself the luxury of a negative thought.
To read more excellent posts from John, check out his blog, Walking the Black Dog.
Suppose that we did evolve with lots of light, exercise, sleep, family, (not saying we did -- did cavemen get light?) then why would getting more of all this good stuff keep us from being depressed? There's nothing wrong with being depressed in evolutionary terms, since being depressed doesn't keep you from procreating, which is all that counts in natural selection. I think John Van Sickel owes us some evidence to back up his recommendations. Without wishing to seem mean, it sounds to me like BS.
--Greg0 -
Not to be contrary...PGLGreg said:Back to Nature?
Suppose that we did evolve with lots of light, exercise, sleep, family, (not saying we did -- did cavemen get light?) then why would getting more of all this good stuff keep us from being depressed? There's nothing wrong with being depressed in evolutionary terms, since being depressed doesn't keep you from procreating, which is all that counts in natural selection. I think John Van Sickel owes us some evidence to back up his recommendations. Without wishing to seem mean, it sounds to me like BS.
--Greg
but the comments posted from John Van Sickel make absolute sense.
-p
PS: I just looked back at your first response:
"I think there is a deep difference between people who get depressed and those who don't, and it's pretty hard for the one group to have any sympathy with the other."
I now see how you can say Van Sickel's comments are BS ...0 -
Not lack of sympathyPhillieG said:Not to be contrary...
but the comments posted from John Van Sickel make absolute sense.
-p
PS: I just looked back at your first response:
"I think there is a deep difference between people who get depressed and those who don't, and it's pretty hard for the one group to have any sympathy with the other."
I now see how you can say Van Sickel's comments are BS ...
I've never been depressed tho I have been very, very sad when horrible things have happened to my family or those I love.
I believe, just as someone who has never had a cancer dx cannot understand when a cancer patient feels, someone like me, who has never been depressed, cannot understand what it feels like to be depressed.
That doesn't mean I cannot feel sympathy for those who are dealing with depression, I just cannot understand how those people feel.
I hated it when my brother (only sibling) was murdered two 1/2 years ago and people would say, 'I know how you feel'. No they did NOT!0 -
I Agree Dianedianetavegia said:Not lack of sympathy
I've never been depressed tho I have been very, very sad when horrible things have happened to my family or those I love.
I believe, just as someone who has never had a cancer dx cannot understand when a cancer patient feels, someone like me, who has never been depressed, cannot understand what it feels like to be depressed.
That doesn't mean I cannot feel sympathy for those who are dealing with depression, I just cannot understand how those people feel.
I hated it when my brother (only sibling) was murdered two 1/2 years ago and people would say, 'I know how you feel'. No they did NOT!
It is possible to have sympathy or empathy for those who are depressed even if one is not depressed themselves. I don't even know what to think of those who feel it's "all in your head" or to just "shake it off" as many people say. I'm not saying anyone on the board said that. To excuse exercise, diet, social contact and other things to help ward off depression as BS is silly at best in my opinion.
People often do not think before they speak or they will ask a question like "how are you doing?" when they really do not want to know, they just do it out of habit.
I do remember you mentioning about your brother.
I have no idea how that must feel. I'm very sorry Diane.
-p0 -
I understand MURDERdianetavegia said:Not lack of sympathy
I've never been depressed tho I have been very, very sad when horrible things have happened to my family or those I love.
I believe, just as someone who has never had a cancer dx cannot understand when a cancer patient feels, someone like me, who has never been depressed, cannot understand what it feels like to be depressed.
That doesn't mean I cannot feel sympathy for those who are dealing with depression, I just cannot understand how those people feel.
I hated it when my brother (only sibling) was murdered two 1/2 years ago and people would say, 'I know how you feel'. No they did NOT!
Good mornin' Diane
I am so sorry to hear about your brother's murder - that is terrible to have to deal with.
I certainly DO UNDERSTAND exactly how you feel...why?
Because I share something else in common with you as it turns out - my sister Suzanne was also murdered, back in 1986 - and she was my only sibling too. I have a picture of her out on my Expressions page if you want to see her
And people told me the same things and no, they just did not get how I felt.
On the night she was murdered, I was at a basketball game in another city than her, during one of the timeouts, the crowd was loud and hollering - and then a "quiet" came over me and I could see the fans yelling, but could no longer hear them.
I felt this "funny" feeling that I cannot quite describe, but it was as if you she was reaching out in her dying breaths to tell me something, or just goodbye.
That's a true story.
So, I understand you and am so sorry for your loss - you're such a nice lady.
Thanks for sharing - we all learn about each other when we do that and it takes courage.
-Craig0 -
BuzzardBuzzard said:BDee
I hope I didn't come across wrong..I wasn't trying to be a fart, just posting is all. Emotions just don't carry over in posting and I was very calm when posting to this, everythings good here, Im sure it is there also....Your Buddy, Clift
No, you didn't come across wrong and I didn't mean to make you feel that way. I just did not realize the furor I would start with my topic. I had no idea that the topic of depression could cause so much emotion in so many people.
Debbie0 -
Emotionbdee said:Buzzard
No, you didn't come across wrong and I didn't mean to make you feel that way. I just did not realize the furor I would start with my topic. I had no idea that the topic of depression could cause so much emotion in so many people.
Debbie
I know this was addressed to Buzzard but I happened to read it and have another comment. I think what got people going is that there are many people out there who do not realize this is an issue with many people in general but even more so with people who are fighting cancer. It's almost like saying "Ah, you don't have cancer, it's all in your head!"
People!0 -
I've just got to comment on the Cavemanlizzydavis said:Black Dog
This is a guest post from John Van Sickel of Walking the Black Dog, a blog about overcoming depression.
Over 120 million people worldwide are affected by the black dog of depression, as Sir Winston Churchill described it. Depression is one of the leading causes of disability, missed work, broken relationships and more.
Chances are you or someone you know will suffer from it in your lifetime.
It is truly one of the most devastating of dis-eases (not at ease!) in that it robs you of the ability to simply enjoy life. Activities that you used to enjoy leave you feeling empty. Interacting with friends, family and coworkers can be overwhelming.
So what can we do? Traditional routes of therapy and even medication are effective and should definitely be considered if depression is disrupting your life.
However there are other, natural steps to take that can, over time, be very effective. In fact, some studies have shown these to be as effective (or more so) than traditional therapies.
As an added bonus these are good lifestyle changes that will enhance anyone’s life, depressed or not, and most don’t cost a thing!
Here are the very practical caveman therapies for modern men and women.
1. Get outside. Our caveman friends saw lots of daylight; getting up at sunrise and going to sleep at sunset. Exposure to bright sunlight for 30 minutes a day either through sunlight or a light made for this, helps keep your internal clock set. This circadian rhythm helps to regulate our sleep/wake cycle and insures a good night’s sleep which in turn, helps our physical and mental health. Don’t wear sunglasses though; the exposure must come through your eyes!
2. Aerobic Exercise. Primitive folks had to forage or work in the fields for their food. 30 minutes at least 3 times a week means those ‘runner’s high’ endorphins get released regularly. It’s also a good way to work through and release stress. You don’t have to run a marathon, just get your heart rate up to your target range – around 120 to 160 beats per minute depending on your age and condition. Walking works wonders. Get your doctor’s approval first!
3. Omega-3 fatty acids. 1,000 mg daily. Omega-3’s aid in the brain’s neuron connectivity. Enteric coated capsules help prevent burping the fishy tasting oil but you can also freeze them. Throw in a good multi-vitamin and avoid overly processed foods in favor of complex carbohydrates (whole grains), fish, free range meats, & vegetables and you’re good to go.
4. Sleep. Change your sleep routine so that it’s more conducive to a good night’s rest. Turn your lights down and go to bed at the same time everynight. Turn the t.v. off. Engage in calming, quiet activities like reading, listening to soft music, taking a warm bath, rubbing soothing lotion on your body, drink sweet dreams hot tea, etc. Avoid caffeine and alcohol. Don’t work late or do other stressful activities that cause your mind to race. Think positive & good thoughts - Remember a tired body and quiet mind are the requirements for quality sleep.
5. Socialize. Remember the Amish farmer has his family and community to fall back on for support. There’s no reason you can’t too. Involve yourself with close friends and family. You don’t have to engage in heavy conversations about your plight, just have fun. Keep it simple and go to a movie, visit an art gallery or museum, go to a ball game, grab a cup of coffee or have a meal together. Just be with other people and your feelings of isolation will fade. Do this face to face (not online!) and do it regularly.
6. Watch your thinking! Anti-rumination strategy is vital to breaking out of depression and other emotional ruts. Become aware of those times you dwell on the negatives in your life – both real or imagined – and stop them. It takes work and persistence but if you constantly tell yourself to ’stop it’ when you start to go over and over the negatives, then you are building a positive habit that will change your life for the better. Whether it’s the jerk who cut you off in traffic or something a little closer to home, don’t give yourself the luxury of a negative thought.
To read more excellent posts from John, check out his blog, Walking the Black Dog.
1. I can't get out in the sun. Five minutes of sun exposure and I'm itching and breaking out like crazy.
2. I've always been a walker and even since starting this chemo and not getting outside I do exercies on my WII every day.
3. I can't take the Omega tablets because they have soy in them which affect my thyroid. My thyroid go hypo when I take or eat any soy product. But for 25 years I've watched what my family and I eat. My kids thought at one time that only fish and chicken were sold in the commissary. And still with watching what I ate, I had Grave's disease, diabetes and cancer.
4. Sleep is one thing that depresses me the most. It is hard to lay in bed for hours or to be up until 4:00 a.m. just to sleep until 8:00, if I sleep at all.
5. I'm lucky that I have two former jobs here in Little Rock and have stayed good friends with both groups. I visit with one or the other group at least once a month. Plus my family that I see or talk to every day.
6. I try my best not to think about the negative aspect of my life. I've always been the positive one in my family and when the rest talk about "how long" for me I tell them "as long as I want."
So, as you can see, if I was a caveman I would be okay with your analysis. But then you have to wander, if they were in such good health, what happened to the cavemen?
Debbie0 -
Daylight.bdee said:I've just got to comment on the Caveman
1. I can't get out in the sun. Five minutes of sun exposure and I'm itching and breaking out like crazy.
2. I've always been a walker and even since starting this chemo and not getting outside I do exercies on my WII every day.
3. I can't take the Omega tablets because they have soy in them which affect my thyroid. My thyroid go hypo when I take or eat any soy product. But for 25 years I've watched what my family and I eat. My kids thought at one time that only fish and chicken were sold in the commissary. And still with watching what I ate, I had Grave's disease, diabetes and cancer.
4. Sleep is one thing that depresses me the most. It is hard to lay in bed for hours or to be up until 4:00 a.m. just to sleep until 8:00, if I sleep at all.
5. I'm lucky that I have two former jobs here in Little Rock and have stayed good friends with both groups. I visit with one or the other group at least once a month. Plus my family that I see or talk to every day.
6. I try my best not to think about the negative aspect of my life. I've always been the positive one in my family and when the rest talk about "how long" for me I tell them "as long as I want."
So, as you can see, if I was a caveman I would be okay with your analysis. But then you have to wander, if they were in such good health, what happened to the cavemen?
Debbie
I don't think direct sun light is necessary for this supposed anti-depressive effect of daylight. I recall seeing some products on Amazon with daylight bulbs that are marketed for mood-enhancing effects. (Searching Amazon for "sun lamps for depression" yields about 15 products, not counting the book "Lighting Fixtures of the Depression Era".)
--Greg0 -
What happened to the cavemen?bdee said:I've just got to comment on the Caveman
1. I can't get out in the sun. Five minutes of sun exposure and I'm itching and breaking out like crazy.
2. I've always been a walker and even since starting this chemo and not getting outside I do exercies on my WII every day.
3. I can't take the Omega tablets because they have soy in them which affect my thyroid. My thyroid go hypo when I take or eat any soy product. But for 25 years I've watched what my family and I eat. My kids thought at one time that only fish and chicken were sold in the commissary. And still with watching what I ate, I had Grave's disease, diabetes and cancer.
4. Sleep is one thing that depresses me the most. It is hard to lay in bed for hours or to be up until 4:00 a.m. just to sleep until 8:00, if I sleep at all.
5. I'm lucky that I have two former jobs here in Little Rock and have stayed good friends with both groups. I visit with one or the other group at least once a month. Plus my family that I see or talk to every day.
6. I try my best not to think about the negative aspect of my life. I've always been the positive one in my family and when the rest talk about "how long" for me I tell them "as long as I want."
So, as you can see, if I was a caveman I would be okay with your analysis. But then you have to wander, if they were in such good health, what happened to the cavemen?
Debbie
They are selling car insurance for GEICO now.
Evolution for one, also, there is strong evidence that the neanderthals were killed off by "modern humans" whose brains had evolved more than theirs about 30,000 years or so.
Of course, that's if you believe in evolution.
-p0 -
"What happened to thePhillieG said:What happened to the cavemen?
They are selling car insurance for GEICO now.
Evolution for one, also, there is strong evidence that the neanderthals were killed off by "modern humans" whose brains had evolved more than theirs about 30,000 years or so.
Of course, that's if you believe in evolution.
-p
"What happened to the cavemen?
They are selling car insurance for GEICO now."
GOOD ONE!!!
Truly there is depression, but there are different types. There is chronic depression suffered by people that have a true problem with the way their brain works, and medication is needed to keep them on track. Manic depressives, and other mental illnesses truly have chronic depression.
There is hormone induced depression which can occur when hormone levels are rising or falling quickly, or just out of whack. Puberty for all, and menopause for women, and even some men, along with any age for someone with a hormone problem. Sometimes medicine to keep hormone levels steady fixes this easily. (I personally had this issue as a teen and it was fixed once the hormome levels were addressed.)
There is situational depression which most of the population suffers from at some time or other in their lives - different people to different degrees. This is the depression that often you can pull yourself out of by whatever methods work for you. Positive thinking, excersize, sunlight, diet, finding support from family and friends - lots of things to help pull you out. But situational depression can also spiral downward to the point that medication can be helpful in overcoming it. But it is very rare that anyone with situational depression would need medication for life to keep it under control.
I cannot believe ANY member of the medical community could make a statement as ignorant as "there is no such thing as depression." The evidence to the contrary is too much for anyone with half a brain to think or say that. I would just ignore him, as I do anyone I do not respect...0 -
Naw...he should just deckdixchi said:on second thought...
maybe put them in a room and give them those
soft bats they use in some therapies to
hit each other....that way no one gets hurt!
Barbara
Naw...he should just deck him. Kidding, only kidding. Sorta
and...I think the doctor needs to read these posts. Maybe he would learn something. I can't believe how a anyone, let alone an oncologist could say anything like that. Kinda like the doctors who always thought women's ailments where due to hysteria or "that time of the month." He's really full of himself and needs to be taken down a peg or two.
Slap him! (: Cathy0 -
Deck himcrazy__er said:Naw...he should just deck
Naw...he should just deck him. Kidding, only kidding. Sorta
and...I think the doctor needs to read these posts. Maybe he would learn something. I can't believe how a anyone, let alone an oncologist could say anything like that. Kinda like the doctors who always thought women's ailments where due to hysteria or "that time of the month." He's really full of himself and needs to be taken down a peg or two.
Slap him! (: Cathy
I think my husband has calmed down enough now just to have a normal talk with the doctor. Our appointment is scheduled for Monday. It will probably be Wednesday before I am back on the board to let everyone know what happens.0 -
Thanks Craig,Sundanceh said:Hey Dennis
I just opened up a post about an upcoming surgery I've got Oct 15th.
I've always faced things down too - I'm in year 6, so you're further along, but your post tells me you are feeling just what I am feeling now - the battle wages on and even the most veteran can succumb to the human feelings we are all made of.
My post is titled: Surgery Update Oct 15th - Another Sundance Update
In there, I talk both about Depression and Anger - the Anger part of my post might resonate with you to some degree - at least you will feel that what you are feeling is quite normal.
I'll be over it soon and getting my mind right to fight again, but I've allowed myself these feelings and have not been embarassed to post that and show the board that this can be a normal course of events in our struggles with life.
Check it out and drop a comment - I'll look for it.
Take care - Craig
You know, for
Thanks Craig,
You know, for all of my life I've just bottled up feelings, fears, anxiety, anger, grief, etc and never really confronted them emotionally, or even allowed them to run their course. When I was afraid of the treatments, surgeries, etc I just used to say, " A coward dies a thousand deaths, etc etc", bring it on. It worked ok for me for a long while, but suddenly, with my Sister in Law's death, it all became more of a burden than I could bear and I realized how stupid all that machoism and false bravado was. I guess my beloved Sister in Law taught me that in the months before her death when her Doctors had given up all hope for her recovery and placed her under Pallitive care only.
She taught me a lesson in what the Serenity Prayer really meant, and the meaning of true courage, I'll never forget her and for once in my life I'm allowing my grief to run it's natural course without all the denials and adjectives that just tend to diminish the meanings of feelings, emotions, etc.
You mentioned that you'd had a premonition at the time of your Dear Sister's Death, I'm glad you posted that. I've had several of those inexplicable premonitions in my life, the latest was the Wednesday morning (3AM) before Lyn's (sister in law) death on Saturday, in which I woke up KNOWING that Lyn had reached the end of her Journey and that I'd never hear her encouraging voice again. I wasn't able to talk to anyone about it, including my wife, but, I was sure that Lyn's life was over and I just broke down. I also feel that Lyn had come to me in the night and told me she was leaving, that her Journey was over, and that she loved me, as I loved her.
DennisR0 -
depressionbdee said:Deck him
I think my husband has calmed down enough now just to have a normal talk with the doctor. Our appointment is scheduled for Monday. It will probably be Wednesday before I am back on the board to let everyone know what happens.
bdee,
without sleep we are left unprepared to deal with the usual, never mind the stress of cancer ( or other terrible facts of life)
Depression is undenialably real. Your doc my need to get on boad with Lucy in the comics - psychiatric advice 10cents or the girl from Missouri who says "snap out of it"
I'm sorry that he said that to you in such an offhand manner. Nobody is immune to depression.
My advice is to find a therapist and ride it out with the help of a specialist in the field. I did. Life is too short to not take the hands extended in help.
Hanna0
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