Question for those of you that finished External Radiation

lociee

Teresa 61 said:

Leg Pain
Hi Lociee, I have an appointment tomorrow with my gyno/onc and I'am going to let her know you have the same pain as me....thank you ahead of time for posting your MRI results.
Take Care, Teresa

Radiation Pain
Hi Teresa, I've tried sending this info twice. Hopefully this time it will go through. My MRI showed the following:
Right gluteus minimus and left gluteus medius tendinopathy - more pronounced on right side (hence the pain
in hip and down leg) Also, Bilateral sacroiliac joint degenerative change - more pronounced on the right. Now.....
radiation was 25 all over pelvic area - and 7 boosts to the tumor on the right of my colon near the sacrum.
Both the radiaologist and my regular oncologist say this development is NOT related to radiation.
I disagree. None of these things showed up on my pre-radiation MRI. Also checked with the a friend (a doctor) and he
says that these developments clearly came - or at least were provoked by radiation. The good news is that
the tendinopathy can get better. He said to take Motrin/Advil/or Napasin in large doses - that will be good for
the swelling - also don't lift anything - take it easy - it will take a few months for things to recede.
How are you doing? And, did you get any helpful feedback from your gyno?

california_artist

abstracts agree urinary caused by hysterectomy
Here is what I put in the Google search to find these references:

radiation treatment incontinence

and these are some of the reports that showed up. If you look farther on the page of the report for references, you can find other studies and such.

This appears to be from the National Institute of Health (nih.gov)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3725241?dopt=

Abstract Urodynamic changes in urethrovesical function after radical hysterectomy.
Scotti RJ, Bergman A, Bhatia NN, Ostergard DR.

Twelve patients undergoing radical hysterectomy were comprehensively evaluated urodynamically pre- and postoperatively using sensitive instrumentation, including microtip transducers. Five patients developed genuine stress incontinence, four developed loss of bladder compliance, three developed motor deficits consisting of either inability to relax the urethra or inability to initiate or maintain a vesical contraction, two developed impaired urinary flow, three had persistent excessive residual urine volumes, and two developed bladder sensory loss. These changes persisted beyond the one-year follow-up period. The degree of urethrovesical dysfunction bore no significant relationship to the radicality of the hysterectomy.
PMID: 3725241 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Actually, if your doctors are unaware of this possible result of the surgery, which they might be, you could show some of these studies to them and it might help the next fellow traveler in line. At least they might not so easily dismiss their role or responsibility in how you feel and might also not be so quick to dismiss your claim all together. How many things are "all in our minds and a few antidepressants will fix us right up?" and how many of those pills go right in the trash, cause, I'm sorry but pee is never in your mind!

I'm sorry. I'm part Sicilian and I'm from New York City. It doesn't get any more honest or real than that. Ask any New Yorker. It's our burden to carry. Someone asks a question, I have to try to find the answer.

Here's another:

Urethral pressure profiles following radical hysterectomy.
Sasaki H, Yoshida T, Noda K, Yachiku S, Minami K, Kaneko S.

Urethral function following radical hysterectomy was studied by chronologic analysis of the urethral pressure profile. Thirty patients who had radical hysterectomy were divided into 2 groups according to the degree of preservation of the plexus pelvicus at operation. The method of complete preservation is described. Urethral pressure profiles showed a significant postoperative decrease of mean maximum urethral closure pressure in the group of 20 patients with bilateral nerve transection; this was not found in the group of 10 patients with complete preservation of the plexus pelvicus. The decrease was ascribed to possible damage of sympathetic nerves originating from the hypogastric nerve. The results indicated that postoperative abnormalities in urination are caused by damage not only to the parasympathetic nerves (the pelvis nerve) but to the sympathetic nerves (the hypogastric nerve) as well.

here's another one:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u101965567n3l1g8/

Stress-overflow urinary incontinence after radical hysterectomy and radiation therapy for cervical cancer

(1) Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Graz, Austria
(2) Department of Neurology, University of Graz, Austria


Abstract A 40-year-old woman was evaluated for urinary incontinence, loss of bladder sensation and residual urine 12 months after radical abdominal hysterectomy and external pelvic radiation therapy for stage IIb cervical cancer. The patient had no history of abnormal lower urinary tract function before treatment. The urodynamic follow-up study at 12 months showed 80 ml of residual urine, low bladder compliance (detrusor pressure of 77 cmH2O at 200 ml filling) and an incompetent urethral closure mechanism. Cystoscopy showed a pale bladder mucosa with telangiectasia. Two years later the urodynamic findings were almost unchanged, and pudendal nerve terminal motor latency measured according to Snooks and Swash showed prolonged motor latency to the external urethral sphincter. Thus, this patient had combined stress overflow incontinence with pudendal neuropathy and fibrosis of the bladder wall.


Just something to think about when you're trying to solve problems.

Love and kisses,

Claudia

Unknown

california_artist said:

abstracts agree urinary caused by hysterectomy
Here is what I put in the Google search to find these references:

radiation treatment incontinence

and these are some of the reports that showed up. If you look farther on the page of the report for references, you can find other studies and such.

This appears to be from the National Institute of Health (nih.gov)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3725241?dopt=

Abstract Urodynamic changes in urethrovesical function after radical hysterectomy.
Scotti RJ, Bergman A, Bhatia NN, Ostergard DR.

Twelve patients undergoing radical hysterectomy were comprehensively evaluated urodynamically pre- and postoperatively using sensitive instrumentation, including microtip transducers. Five patients developed genuine stress incontinence, four developed loss of bladder compliance, three developed motor deficits consisting of either inability to relax the urethra or inability to initiate or maintain a vesical contraction, two developed impaired urinary flow, three had persistent excessive residual urine volumes, and two developed bladder sensory loss. These changes persisted beyond the one-year follow-up period. The degree of urethrovesical dysfunction bore no significant relationship to the radicality of the hysterectomy.
PMID: 3725241 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Actually, if your doctors are unaware of this possible result of the surgery, which they might be, you could show some of these studies to them and it might help the next fellow traveler in line. At least they might not so easily dismiss their role or responsibility in how you feel and might also not be so quick to dismiss your claim all together. How many things are "all in our minds and a few antidepressants will fix us right up?" and how many of those pills go right in the trash, cause, I'm sorry but pee is never in your mind!

I'm sorry. I'm part Sicilian and I'm from New York City. It doesn't get any more honest or real than that. Ask any New Yorker. It's our burden to carry. Someone asks a question, I have to try to find the answer.

Here's another:

Urethral pressure profiles following radical hysterectomy.
Sasaki H, Yoshida T, Noda K, Yachiku S, Minami K, Kaneko S.

Urethral function following radical hysterectomy was studied by chronologic analysis of the urethral pressure profile. Thirty patients who had radical hysterectomy were divided into 2 groups according to the degree of preservation of the plexus pelvicus at operation. The method of complete preservation is described. Urethral pressure profiles showed a significant postoperative decrease of mean maximum urethral closure pressure in the group of 20 patients with bilateral nerve transection; this was not found in the group of 10 patients with complete preservation of the plexus pelvicus. The decrease was ascribed to possible damage of sympathetic nerves originating from the hypogastric nerve. The results indicated that postoperative abnormalities in urination are caused by damage not only to the parasympathetic nerves (the pelvis nerve) but to the sympathetic nerves (the hypogastric nerve) as well.

here's another one:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u101965567n3l1g8/

Stress-overflow urinary incontinence after radical hysterectomy and radiation therapy for cervical cancer

(1) Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Graz, Austria
(2) Department of Neurology, University of Graz, Austria


Abstract A 40-year-old woman was evaluated for urinary incontinence, loss of bladder sensation and residual urine 12 months after radical abdominal hysterectomy and external pelvic radiation therapy for stage IIb cervical cancer. The patient had no history of abnormal lower urinary tract function before treatment. The urodynamic follow-up study at 12 months showed 80 ml of residual urine, low bladder compliance (detrusor pressure of 77 cmH2O at 200 ml filling) and an incompetent urethral closure mechanism. Cystoscopy showed a pale bladder mucosa with telangiectasia. Two years later the urodynamic findings were almost unchanged, and pudendal nerve terminal motor latency measured according to Snooks and Swash showed prolonged motor latency to the external urethral sphincter. Thus, this patient had combined stress overflow incontinence with pudendal neuropathy and fibrosis of the bladder wall.


Just something to think about when you're trying to solve problems.

Love and kisses,

Claudia

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

california_artist

unknown said:

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

Jill my fellow New Yorker : ~ )
Hey, there,
url: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060117112406.htm
In case you want to look further. There were also a number of board with discussions.

Herr' what I typed in Google search: hysterectomy bowel incontinence to get this thrilling article. : ^ )

Women's Silent Health Problem: Study Finds Fecal Incontinence Is Prevalent
ScienceDaily (Jan. 17, 2006) — It's a topic that is discussed so infrequently -- for reasons that are easy to understand -- that it may seem it isn't much of a problem. But new research shows that fecal incontinence is prevalent among U.S. women, especially those in older age groups, those who have had numerous babies, women whose deliveries were assisted by forceps or vacuum devices, and those who have had a hysterectomy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See also:
Health & Medicine
•Healthy Aging
•Urology
•Diseases and Conditions
•Gynecology
•Menopause
•Women's Health
Reference
•Fecal incontinence
•Hysterectomy
•Menopause
•Urinary incontinence
Many women in the study who had fecal incontinence also had another medical condition, such as major depression or diabetes, and often experienced urinary incontinence in addition to FI. The findings are reported in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology.

"Increased attention should be paid to this debilitating condition, especially considering the aging of our population and the available treatments for FI," says senior author Dee E. Fenner, M.D., associate professor of obstetrics and gynecology, and director of gynecology, at the University of Michigan Medical School. "It is very important to the health of women that clinicians are aware of the prevalence of FI and can treat their patients accordingly."

The study, led by the University of Washington, was a postal survey of 6,000 women ages 30-90 who were enrolled in a large HMO in Washington state (the condition also affects men, but only women were involved in the study). Of the 64 percent who responded, the prevalence of FI was found to be 7.2 percent, with the occurrence increasing notably with age. FI was defined as loss of liquid or solid stool at least monthly.

The study was the first, to the authors' knowledge, to examine major depression as a potential risk factor for FI. They say FI could be a contributing factor to major depression in some cases, and major depression could be a contributing factor to FI in other cases.

FI can occur after damage to the anal sphincter muscles or scarring to the rectum, causing it to be unable to hold stool. Ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease and some other conditions can cause this scarring to occur. Another contributing factor can be the stretching of the nerves that supply the sphincters, called the pudendal nerves, which can occur with childbirth, old age, trauma, or with medical diseases that affect the nerves, such as diabetes. Without intact nerves to stimulate the sphincters, the sphincters may undergo atrophy.

Because of the nature of the condition, people who have FI often do not discuss it with their doctors, experts say. That is why the study's authors encourage clinicians to take a more active role in finding out if their patients are experiencing FI, especially among patients age 50 or older. They note that while FI is present in many elderly women, it should not be considered merely a normal part of aging. They also encourage women to discuss the issue with their doctors.

It also is important for women and their doctors to be aware of the conditions that often go along with FI. Researchers found that women in the study with FI were more likely to have:

•A higher number of deliveries
•Urinary incontinence
•A previous hysterectomy
•Another medical condition as well, such as major depression or diabetes
•A history of operative vaginal delivery, such as those using forceps or a vacuum-assisted device.
The impact of incontinence on the quality of life of the respondents was "significant," says Fenner, who is one of the founders of the Michigan Bowel Control Program at the University of Michigan Health System. "We found that half of the subjects with FI reported that their bowel symptoms had a large impact on their quality of life," she notes.

Treatments that can help people manage FI can range from changes in diet and exercise, to medications that improve the formation of stools, to surgery that repairs the sphincter muscles. In some cases, an artificial bowel sphincter can be implanted under the skin to mimic the natural function of the anal sphincter. Biofeedback -- which involves daily exercises to improve the strength of muscles used to hold back a bowel movement -- also is an option for some patients.

The lead author of the study was Jennifer L. Melville, M.D., M.P.H., of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology and the Department of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences at the University of Washington. In addition to Melville and Fenner, other authors were Ming-Yu Fan, Ph.D., of the Department of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences at the University of Washington and Katherine Newton, Ph.D., of the Center for Health Studies at the Group Health Cooperative of Puget Sound of Seattle.

###
The research was supported by grants from the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development and the National Institute of Mental Health, and a project-specific grant from Pharmacia Corporation.

Citation: American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Dec. 2005, vol. 193, 2071-6.

For more information about fecal incontinence: www.med.umich.edu/1libr/aha/umfecal.htm

For more information about the Michigan Bowel Control Program: www.med.umich.edu/bowelcontrol/about/fecal_incont.htm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adapted from materials provided by University of Michigan Health System.

Personally, I just love the work the University of Michigan is doing. Especially on ginger and cancer. Dr. Lui spelling not so sure.

Unknown

california_artist said:

Jill my fellow New Yorker : ~ )
Hey, there,
url: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060117112406.htm
In case you want to look further. There were also a number of board with discussions.

Herr' what I typed in Google search: hysterectomy bowel incontinence to get this thrilling article. : ^ )

Women's Silent Health Problem: Study Finds Fecal Incontinence Is Prevalent
ScienceDaily (Jan. 17, 2006) — It's a topic that is discussed so infrequently -- for reasons that are easy to understand -- that it may seem it isn't much of a problem. But new research shows that fecal incontinence is prevalent among U.S. women, especially those in older age groups, those who have had numerous babies, women whose deliveries were assisted by forceps or vacuum devices, and those who have had a hysterectomy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See also:
Health & Medicine
•Healthy Aging
•Urology
•Diseases and Conditions
•Gynecology
•Menopause
•Women's Health
Reference
•Fecal incontinence
•Hysterectomy
•Menopause
•Urinary incontinence
Many women in the study who had fecal incontinence also had another medical condition, such as major depression or diabetes, and often experienced urinary incontinence in addition to FI. The findings are reported in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology.

"Increased attention should be paid to this debilitating condition, especially considering the aging of our population and the available treatments for FI," says senior author Dee E. Fenner, M.D., associate professor of obstetrics and gynecology, and director of gynecology, at the University of Michigan Medical School. "It is very important to the health of women that clinicians are aware of the prevalence of FI and can treat their patients accordingly."

The study, led by the University of Washington, was a postal survey of 6,000 women ages 30-90 who were enrolled in a large HMO in Washington state (the condition also affects men, but only women were involved in the study). Of the 64 percent who responded, the prevalence of FI was found to be 7.2 percent, with the occurrence increasing notably with age. FI was defined as loss of liquid or solid stool at least monthly.

The study was the first, to the authors' knowledge, to examine major depression as a potential risk factor for FI. They say FI could be a contributing factor to major depression in some cases, and major depression could be a contributing factor to FI in other cases.

FI can occur after damage to the anal sphincter muscles or scarring to the rectum, causing it to be unable to hold stool. Ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease and some other conditions can cause this scarring to occur. Another contributing factor can be the stretching of the nerves that supply the sphincters, called the pudendal nerves, which can occur with childbirth, old age, trauma, or with medical diseases that affect the nerves, such as diabetes. Without intact nerves to stimulate the sphincters, the sphincters may undergo atrophy.

Because of the nature of the condition, people who have FI often do not discuss it with their doctors, experts say. That is why the study's authors encourage clinicians to take a more active role in finding out if their patients are experiencing FI, especially among patients age 50 or older. They note that while FI is present in many elderly women, it should not be considered merely a normal part of aging. They also encourage women to discuss the issue with their doctors.

It also is important for women and their doctors to be aware of the conditions that often go along with FI. Researchers found that women in the study with FI were more likely to have:

•A higher number of deliveries
•Urinary incontinence
•A previous hysterectomy
•Another medical condition as well, such as major depression or diabetes
•A history of operative vaginal delivery, such as those using forceps or a vacuum-assisted device.
The impact of incontinence on the quality of life of the respondents was "significant," says Fenner, who is one of the founders of the Michigan Bowel Control Program at the University of Michigan Health System. "We found that half of the subjects with FI reported that their bowel symptoms had a large impact on their quality of life," she notes.

Treatments that can help people manage FI can range from changes in diet and exercise, to medications that improve the formation of stools, to surgery that repairs the sphincter muscles. In some cases, an artificial bowel sphincter can be implanted under the skin to mimic the natural function of the anal sphincter. Biofeedback -- which involves daily exercises to improve the strength of muscles used to hold back a bowel movement -- also is an option for some patients.

The lead author of the study was Jennifer L. Melville, M.D., M.P.H., of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology and the Department of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences at the University of Washington. In addition to Melville and Fenner, other authors were Ming-Yu Fan, Ph.D., of the Department of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences at the University of Washington and Katherine Newton, Ph.D., of the Center for Health Studies at the Group Health Cooperative of Puget Sound of Seattle.

###
The research was supported by grants from the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development and the National Institute of Mental Health, and a project-specific grant from Pharmacia Corporation.

Citation: American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Dec. 2005, vol. 193, 2071-6.

For more information about fecal incontinence: www.med.umich.edu/1libr/aha/umfecal.htm

For more information about the Michigan Bowel Control Program: www.med.umich.edu/bowelcontrol/about/fecal_incont.htm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adapted from materials provided by University of Michigan Health System.

Personally, I just love the work the University of Michigan is doing. Especially on ginger and cancer. Dr. Lui spelling not so sure.

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

Teresa 61

lociee said:

Radiation Pain
Hi Teresa, I've tried sending this info twice. Hopefully this time it will go through. My MRI showed the following:
Right gluteus minimus and left gluteus medius tendinopathy - more pronounced on right side (hence the pain
in hip and down leg) Also, Bilateral sacroiliac joint degenerative change - more pronounced on the right. Now.....
radiation was 25 all over pelvic area - and 7 boosts to the tumor on the right of my colon near the sacrum.
Both the radiaologist and my regular oncologist say this development is NOT related to radiation.
I disagree. None of these things showed up on my pre-radiation MRI. Also checked with the a friend (a doctor) and he
says that these developments clearly came - or at least were provoked by radiation. The good news is that
the tendinopathy can get better. He said to take Motrin/Advil/or Napasin in large doses - that will be good for
the swelling - also don't lift anything - take it easy - it will take a few months for things to recede.
How are you doing? And, did you get any helpful feedback from your gyno?

Leg Pain
lociee, thank you so much for sharing your mri results. My gyn/onc told me my pain was not from cancer treatments and that I needed an mri.I also told her about you and I having the exact pain after treatments, she more or less just brushed me off. I still believe this was provoked from the treatments. I'am happy to say that after almost 2 months of this I'am feeling 90 percent better. I hope that you are too.Thank you again for posting your results, it meant alot to me... Teresa

california_artist

unknown said:

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

that line about the artificial sphincter replacement made me

laugh so hard!



Jill,

I do the research finding, but if the topic doesn't apply to me, I just skim through the first few paragraphs. But, your comment about not yet being a candidate for an artificial sphincter muscle, well, I'm still chuckling over that one.

Hey, if you give me an email, I'd be happy to tell you about the what, why and wherefore, of myself, don't want to bore these girls with that stuff. I'm in what I call the meanest little town in America. It's in the U.P. of Michigan. People here are routinely denied benefits that would help them or their families. I can't even go into it, it's so horrific. I plan on moving to Oregon the first part of next year.

Or here's my email,

claudiaallen27@yahoo.com

lociee

Teresa 61 said:

Leg Pain
lociee, thank you so much for sharing your mri results. My gyn/onc told me my pain was not from cancer treatments and that I needed an mri.I also told her about you and I having the exact pain after treatments, she more or less just brushed me off. I still believe this was provoked from the treatments. I'am happy to say that after almost 2 months of this I'am feeling 90 percent better. I hope that you are too.Thank you again for posting your results, it meant alot to me... Teresa

leg pain
Hi Teresa - I responded earlier but it didn't register. I'm wondering if it's the same problem again. Anyway, I poured my heart out in the previous comment - so..... now I'm feeling a little vulnerable. Anyway, I'm so pleased that you're 90% better. That's huge! I would say that I'm 50% better - but that's good, too. The sacrum pain is still bad. I should not have done the blasts to the tumor - but they said if I didn't I would be dead in 9-12 months. But I didn't want to trade cancer for a life time of pain. Do you get that? Most people do not. Now they want me to take Hormonal therapy and back to taxol - I think I'm done. My real name is Mia - (Lociee is the name of my old kitty).