A thought about depression

mgm42

Recently, I have been reading about depression on this board and the possibility of it being a side effect of aromatase inhibitors. I was also wondering how many of us who are experiencing depression just completed treatment during this past year and suffered a tragedy like the loss of a loved one. I lost my dad, with whom I was very close, in between my chemo and starting radiation. Ohilly lost her mom just three months ago after completing her treatment. How many of you also suffered a loss during your treatment year? I don't know what kind of point I'm trying to make or even if there is any point here. Maybe there is some connection between the depression and the events of our lives rather than our meds. I don't know. But, I am wondering. I'm normally a very upbeat person, but recently, I have been down in the pits. Arimidex? Losing my dad? Chemo? Breast Cancer? The holidays? Maybe. But, maybe someone will say that this is natural and normal and will pass with time. I know I sound kind of confused - I am. But thanks for listening (reading.) Hugs, Marilynn

Joycelouise

Well, here is a possible
Well, here is a possible insight. My twin daughters both got married in the middle of my treatment. So, that is a happy event, right?(not like losing someone) Nope. It was painful. Painful because I couldn't be myself for something that important. My point is that even what might normally be joyful can turn sad during difficult times. Which is either caused by depression, or, I think, a cause of depression. When we get so confused as to what is good and bad and so out of touch with the old patterns of happiness we just want to curl up and whimper.
Or something like that. Just writing it is getting me down. Think I will go escape in some snacking!
I look forward to reading the posts in this intersting topic, Marilyn. And I laud you for writing. If we keep at it, keep exploring, I know we can find the door to happiness!
love ya, Joyce

KathiM

I got to feeling like Job must have....
So much happened during that year, and the 3 years since my first cancer diagnosis.

I got to the place that I even READ the book of Job...just to get some pointers...

I think I got numb. Increasingly, as each thing piled on top of the last. It's just now, as I am 'in the clear', that many of these things are hitting. My beau asked how he could help with my depression...I said "Be patient with me. Understand that it is almost entirely situational, and those situations are to be worked thru and then softened (my daughter's death) or left behind entirely (my loss of clients)". He understood, and is very supportive. This is REALLY big for him, since he is normally a 'Ignore it and it will go away' sort of a guy...

I do agree with Joyce...happy stress is, after all, still stress. And our emotions are so heightened by our battles, that a little change can seem like an insurmountable one.

Hugs, Kathi

lynn1950

KathiM said:

I got to feeling like Job must have....
So much happened during that year, and the 3 years since my first cancer diagnosis.

I got to the place that I even READ the book of Job...just to get some pointers...

I think I got numb. Increasingly, as each thing piled on top of the last. It's just now, as I am 'in the clear', that many of these things are hitting. My beau asked how he could help with my depression...I said "Be patient with me. Understand that it is almost entirely situational, and those situations are to be worked thru and then softened (my daughter's death) or left behind entirely (my loss of clients)". He understood, and is very supportive. This is REALLY big for him, since he is normally a 'Ignore it and it will go away' sort of a guy...

I do agree with Joyce...happy stress is, after all, still stress. And our emotions are so heightened by our battles, that a little change can seem like an insurmountable one.

Hugs, Kathi

I have read Job in the past week twice. I don't practice any particular religion, but I do believe in God, and just can't get past the idea that there is just one right way. So I leave it as a Mystery. Having trust and faith is a struggle for me right now.

As to the main topic, I did not suffer a loss this past year. My depression and anxiety started before I began Arimidex, but my meltdown happened after starting it. I feel like I am grieving the loss of me. I know this is a loss of perspective, but there you are.

phoenixrising

You're not confused
No, I don't think you're confused. This whole cancer experience is very stressful. You've come face to face with your mortality and then it comes even closer when a loved one passes on. Stress cake with stress icing on top. And it's not like our cancer experience is a quick operation or starting to take a few pills and it's gone.......it goes on for months and sometimes years and we still don't know if we got rid of it. I don't think it's surprising that your down. It will take time to find a place for it all so you can find joy again.

I don't think I'm suffering from depression right now, but I did. Mine was like Joyce's where my first grandchild was born one month after my operation. And I was sad that this cancer seemed to taint this incredible moment. I remember holding this precious new life in my arms and thinking this is not what I hoped it would be. I was wondering how many years I would have with him and that I couldn't be the grandmother I wanted to be.

But he's 2 1/2 now and I'm still here and I figure even if I get mets I've got a few years anyway. Somehow it doesn't bother me as much anymore. Maybe your depression is just a little bit of everything. I think we need an early spring, what do you think

love
jan

phoenixrising

lynn1950 said:

I have read Job in the past week twice. I don't practice any particular religion, but I do believe in God, and just can't get past the idea that there is just one right way. So I leave it as a Mystery. Having trust and faith is a struggle for me right now.

As to the main topic, I did not suffer a loss this past year. My depression and anxiety started before I began Arimidex, but my meltdown happened after starting it. I feel like I am grieving the loss of me. I know this is a loss of perspective, but there you are.

Lynn, I know what you mean
Lynn, I know what you mean when you say you are grieving the loss of you. I felt that for quite a while and I think it's a realistic perspective. I think we grieve the loss of our innocence. I will never be that same person again and I felt sad about it but gradually I'm redefining the new me and that's probably a good thing. I look back and see myself as a bit of a doormat, everyone came first. Now I just want to be equal...no better, no worse. I'm pretty sure that these hormone drugs play a big part in our depressions.

Sending lots of warm sunshine
love
jan

lynn1950

phoenixrising said:

Lynn, I know what you mean
Lynn, I know what you mean when you say you are grieving the loss of you. I felt that for quite a while and I think it's a realistic perspective. I think we grieve the loss of our innocence. I will never be that same person again and I felt sad about it but gradually I'm redefining the new me and that's probably a good thing. I look back and see myself as a bit of a doormat, everyone came first. Now I just want to be equal...no better, no worse. I'm pretty sure that these hormone drugs play a big part in our depressions.

Sending lots of warm sunshine
love
jan

Lynn, I know what you mean
Thanks for the support. I am learning so much about the emotional part that cancer plays in our lives from all of you and I think I really need that right now. It's helping me to grow and be stronger. I love you guys. Lynn

Joycelouise

lynn1950 said:

Lynn, I know what you mean
Thanks for the support. I am learning so much about the emotional part that cancer plays in our lives from all of you and I think I really need that right now. It's helping me to grow and be stronger. I love you guys. Lynn

Lynn,
Well, your comment
Lynn,
Well, your comment "grieving the loss of me" hits the nail right on the head. Here is a spin to it that helps me. When we grieve, it is a chance to get in touch with how much we love ourselves. That same love is going to pull us through, just feel it and be impressed by its strength. Joyce

mgm42

phoenixrising said:

You're not confused
No, I don't think you're confused. This whole cancer experience is very stressful. You've come face to face with your mortality and then it comes even closer when a loved one passes on. Stress cake with stress icing on top. And it's not like our cancer experience is a quick operation or starting to take a few pills and it's gone.......it goes on for months and sometimes years and we still don't know if we got rid of it. I don't think it's surprising that your down. It will take time to find a place for it all so you can find joy again.

I don't think I'm suffering from depression right now, but I did. Mine was like Joyce's where my first grandchild was born one month after my operation. And I was sad that this cancer seemed to taint this incredible moment. I remember holding this precious new life in my arms and thinking this is not what I hoped it would be. I was wondering how many years I would have with him and that I couldn't be the grandmother I wanted to be.

But he's 2 1/2 now and I'm still here and I figure even if I get mets I've got a few years anyway. Somehow it doesn't bother me as much anymore. Maybe your depression is just a little bit of everything. I think we need an early spring, what do you think

love
jan

Thanks
I appreciate the input from all of you and yes, I think I need an early Spring. I just wish I could smile and laugh. Maybe sunshine and warm weather will help to bring that about. You are the only ones to whom I can talk about my feeling depressed. If I talk to my mom, she immediately starts to bemoan her inability to help me. If I tell my husband,(and he's great) I feel like I'm just complaining again about something related to this damn cancer. My friends don't want to hear it because it's like a never ending saga, and I don't blame them. I can't tell my daughter because I don't want to burden her, she's busy enough and at high risk for breast cancer herself. I keep saying that breast cancer is the "gift that keeps on giving." In my case, that seems be true.

Please keep writing. Each one of you adds something to my not feeling so alone in this, and each of you gives me hope that this, too, shall pass. I love you all. Marilynn

Chellebug

mgm42 said:

Thanks
I appreciate the input from all of you and yes, I think I need an early Spring. I just wish I could smile and laugh. Maybe sunshine and warm weather will help to bring that about. You are the only ones to whom I can talk about my feeling depressed. If I talk to my mom, she immediately starts to bemoan her inability to help me. If I tell my husband,(and he's great) I feel like I'm just complaining again about something related to this damn cancer. My friends don't want to hear it because it's like a never ending saga, and I don't blame them. I can't tell my daughter because I don't want to burden her, she's busy enough and at high risk for breast cancer herself. I keep saying that breast cancer is the "gift that keeps on giving." In my case, that seems be true.

Please keep writing. Each one of you adds something to my not feeling so alone in this, and each of you gives me hope that this, too, shall pass. I love you all. Marilynn

Here are my thoughts, Marilynn....
I think a lot of the depression, in my case, was from fatigue. Other than my breast cancer, I've not had to deal with any other unexpected life experiences this year. But the fatigue that I've experienced just seemed to dig me into a deeper and deeper hole to the point that I had no gumption to try to get out anymore. I wrote the following back in June of this year and I'm still struggling with fatigue. By November I decided to take an antidepressant and it has helped tremendously......

FATIGUE
In the last few months, I read somewhere, in some article, at some doctor's office that fatigue affects 80% of cancer patients. At the time I thought, "Well, I seem to be doing pretty well so far. Sure, I've had side effects from chemo.....but I just might 'kick' this fatigue thing."

HA!! Wishful thinking.

Fatigue is here. It teeter-totters from one spectrum to the other. From low to high. But I just can't seem to 'kick' it. Here is what the American Heritage Dictionary, along with some of my personal modifications, has to say about fatigue:

1) Something, such as tiring effort or activity (like cancer treatment), that causes weariness.
2) The decreased capacity or complete inability of an organism (that would be me!) to function normally because of excessive stimulation (like 4 surgeries, multiple infusions, various pokes and unexpected prods) or prolonged exertion (a.k.a. everyday stuff).
3) The weakening of a material, such as metal or wood (I would add blood, bones, muscles, and brain matter), resulting from prolonged stress.

Here's another way to define fatigue:

F ailure of Gumption
A pathy for the Everyday
T ired, but not Sleepy
I nability to Manage the Ordinary
G et up and Go has Got up and Went
U nable to Focus
E xhausted

Despite this weariness and by the grace of God, I get up everyday (although not always at the recommended time). One foot finds its way in front of the other. Smiles pop on my face and tiny miracles are experienced when least expected. I can not say it enough. God is faithful--morning by morning!!
*****
You are definitely not alone in this, Marilyn. Hang in there!
Chelle

mgm42

Chellebug said:

Here are my thoughts, Marilynn....
I think a lot of the depression, in my case, was from fatigue. Other than my breast cancer, I've not had to deal with any other unexpected life experiences this year. But the fatigue that I've experienced just seemed to dig me into a deeper and deeper hole to the point that I had no gumption to try to get out anymore. I wrote the following back in June of this year and I'm still struggling with fatigue. By November I decided to take an antidepressant and it has helped tremendously......

FATIGUE
In the last few months, I read somewhere, in some article, at some doctor's office that fatigue affects 80% of cancer patients. At the time I thought, "Well, I seem to be doing pretty well so far. Sure, I've had side effects from chemo.....but I just might 'kick' this fatigue thing."

HA!! Wishful thinking.

Fatigue is here. It teeter-totters from one spectrum to the other. From low to high. But I just can't seem to 'kick' it. Here is what the American Heritage Dictionary, along with some of my personal modifications, has to say about fatigue:

1) Something, such as tiring effort or activity (like cancer treatment), that causes weariness.
2) The decreased capacity or complete inability of an organism (that would be me!) to function normally because of excessive stimulation (like 4 surgeries, multiple infusions, various pokes and unexpected prods) or prolonged exertion (a.k.a. everyday stuff).
3) The weakening of a material, such as metal or wood (I would add blood, bones, muscles, and brain matter), resulting from prolonged stress.

Here's another way to define fatigue:

F ailure of Gumption
A pathy for the Everyday
T ired, but not Sleepy
I nability to Manage the Ordinary
G et up and Go has Got up and Went
U nable to Focus
E xhausted

Despite this weariness and by the grace of God, I get up everyday (although not always at the recommended time). One foot finds its way in front of the other. Smiles pop on my face and tiny miracles are experienced when least expected. I can not say it enough. God is faithful--morning by morning!!
*****
You are definitely not alone in this, Marilyn. Hang in there!
Chelle

I love it...
I loved what you said. You've hit the nail on the head for me. My get up and go has got up and went. I'm trying so hard to be "normal" and do all the things I used to do, but I can't and feel like I'm failing somewhere along the line. I'm going to hang on to your poem as well as your thoughts. Thanks so much. sometimes just understanding what's happening to me, helps me to deal with it. You are a doll, as are all of these wonderful women. thanks a bunch. Love, Marilynn

Joycelouise

mgm42 said:

I love it...
I loved what you said. You've hit the nail on the head for me. My get up and go has got up and went. I'm trying so hard to be "normal" and do all the things I used to do, but I can't and feel like I'm failing somewhere along the line. I'm going to hang on to your poem as well as your thoughts. Thanks so much. sometimes just understanding what's happening to me, helps me to deal with it. You are a doll, as are all of these wonderful women. thanks a bunch. Love, Marilynn

Marilyn, we have been
Marilyn, we have been through so much! I can remember you saying things like "I am having people over for lasagna" during chemo and me thinking that you were indeed some kind of wonderwoman. Well, I still think so. You are still fighting.
Dam*, we just thought the end of the ride had come and didn't know there was still a fair amount of time on this train.
For me, I am absolutely all over the place. One moment I am wondering whether I should wear sparkle eyeshadow (or is that just for teens) and the next moment I am thinking that all my life has not only passed, but ended unhappily. Arggh. 100 times a day.
I am going to the bookstore this morning. This I love to do and I don't feel the least bit guilty (well, maybe a little, but so what) about reading but not buying. Wish I could meet you there. We could look through a bunch of books, laugh at some, and pick something new out to read.
And just a last word. I was watching some Good Morning show this morning, the one with Robin Roberts on it, who as you know, was DX'ed and TX'ed for BC this year and went through chemo and baldness very publically. Anyway, all the fake smile TV hosts were talking about the year of 2008 and whether they would be glad to welcome a new one. They asked, "how bout you, Robin?' She said, "One Word - Chemo" and clapped her hands to do away with the year. Thanks, Robin, for really reaching a part of your TV audience this morning and for being a role model to me!
Thanks Marilyn, for the same....love, Joyce (we're gonna make it)

mgm42

Joycelouise said:

Marilyn, we have been
Marilyn, we have been through so much! I can remember you saying things like "I am having people over for lasagna" during chemo and me thinking that you were indeed some kind of wonderwoman. Well, I still think so. You are still fighting.
Dam*, we just thought the end of the ride had come and didn't know there was still a fair amount of time on this train.
For me, I am absolutely all over the place. One moment I am wondering whether I should wear sparkle eyeshadow (or is that just for teens) and the next moment I am thinking that all my life has not only passed, but ended unhappily. Arggh. 100 times a day.
I am going to the bookstore this morning. This I love to do and I don't feel the least bit guilty (well, maybe a little, but so what) about reading but not buying. Wish I could meet you there. We could look through a bunch of books, laugh at some, and pick something new out to read.
And just a last word. I was watching some Good Morning show this morning, the one with Robin Roberts on it, who as you know, was DX'ed and TX'ed for BC this year and went through chemo and baldness very publically. Anyway, all the fake smile TV hosts were talking about the year of 2008 and whether they would be glad to welcome a new one. They asked, "how bout you, Robin?' She said, "One Word - Chemo" and clapped her hands to do away with the year. Thanks, Robin, for really reaching a part of your TV audience this morning and for being a role model to me!
Thanks Marilyn, for the same....love, Joyce (we're gonna make it)

Oh, Joyce
Where would I be without you!!!!! You said, "we just thought the end of the ride had come and didn't know there was still a fair amount of time on this train." I guess that's a part of it. I thought, I really thought, that it was over - time to hop off that damnable train and get on with things. In October, my mammo showed "normal" and my dexascan showed "normal" and my onco declared me cancer free, so I thought, GREAT! It's over. I won't have to see any docs until January. But, it's not over - the ride continues. This depression just kind of came on all of a sudden in spite of all that good news - but I am a fighter and I'll work this through - I'll just have to be content to be a miserable person from time to time and learn to love myself even during those times. Thanks a bunch. Hugs, Your screwy Hampster.