Jack Spratt could eat no fat, his wife could eat no lean

chenheart

Actually, this post has almost nothing to do with nursery rhymes~ but I wanted to weigh in ONE LAST TIME about Jack's posts and the outrage and controversy he has stirred up..whether by design or "coincidently". These posts are more heated than anything Obama or McCain had to say about one another in the past 20 months! I was almost waiting to read that Tina Fey "could "see young cancer survivors from my house"!!!!

I am saddened that it was ever thought I was condescending~ no one has ever accused me of that! To the contrary, my family calls me SWITZERLAND; not because I am neutral, but because I am a peace-maker and a safe place to find oneself. I am actually good at seeing both sides of most issues, this one notwithstanding. Having been a member of CSN since 2003, and even having the great honor of representing this online community on Capital Hill in 2006 has given me the opportunity to show and feel empathy for any and all of us who find ourselves here.

George Bernard Shaw once said that "Youth is wasted on the Young", and the vitriol and misunderstandings these posts have generated seem to bear that out. None of us over a certain age are without empathy about young ppl waging war with this damnable beast. The only thing which seems to be separating our outlook is where we are in the stream of time. And again, simply put, those of us past the age of 30 ( which is an arbitrary number, of course) see this from both sides of the aisle. Even if we didn't have cancer at that age, or if we have not cared for children battling cancer, we have not made it this far unscathed by life's challenges , heartaches, and triumphs. NONE of us wanted to be on these boards, or in chat or in treatment. We rejoice with and for each other, we cry with and for each other, we learn from each other.

The ACS boards and chatrooms are obviously not for everyone. To those who find this not their cuppa tea and chose another venue, I certainly understand that decision. Thankfully, for those who do not feel welcomed and nurtured here, in this age of the Internet, there are myriad places for us all.

Each of us makes a decision as to where we find the most support, camaraderie, and general well-being. I hope we all find exactly what we need in the absolute best place for us!

THE END! LOL

Hugs,
Claudia

base61ball

Amen to that
Its time to put it to rest and go on with the business of healing. Well said.

onlyone

Finding common ground
I hope I am not totally intruding--but this is one time I can't keep my mouth shut.

In the last year, I have had a good friend diagnosed with breast cancer and one die from melanoma. In the past 14 months, I have had both my husband's parents die of cancer. Throughout the years, I have had other friends and distant relatives live with (and unfortunately die from) cancer. As my way of coping and trying to be brave with others, I have become a lurker at various forums to help me with my issues and as guidance on how to help my loved ones.

I have absolutely never seen anything like this!

For those on CSN, I totally see why you would be defensive. All I can say is: I cannot believe Jack wrote the way he did. He probably did it out of emotion, but that doesn't make it right. Jack, if I were you, I would sprint down to the closest bakery and get me a piece of humble pie!

I feel soo bad for the women here for the added stress of the post.

And yet, I sense a hostility at the young because of the messenger. I am older than the vast majority of the women on the site and chenheart, I am older than you, and so I guess that I have seen "both sides of the aisle." As if because I have lived longer, I am better prepared to classify someone else's issues. ..and declare that everything is the same. If I were to be diagnosed with breast cancer today, there is absolutely no way that my issues would be the same as these young women. On youngsurvival.org, there is a board called Remembrance Board and there is a remembrance for Courtney Clevenger and it includes an email written by Courtney and it is heartstopping. I can't even imagine dealing with those issues.

I am absolutely humbled by you all. In my experience with cancer patients, I have seen differences in my friends and loved ones based on their situation in life. The pain of cancer is personal and does not discriminate. But the issues with individuals have with cancer and their lives can be very different and I hope and encourage supporters and caretakers to not try and classify everyone together but to try and provide the most personalized care and support available.

I have often been accused of being "overly nuturing" (actually usually told I am "mothering" too much). And I think I sense some of that in some of the responses--all advice being given with the best of intentions. There are women who have died at 23, 25, 30, that are far wiser than I will ever be. Although I lurk at many cancer sites, I have to admit that youngsurvivors has a very special place in my heart.

God bless you all and CSN and youngsurvivors are among my even prayer recepients.

missmuffet

statistics
Did you read the facts posted, or just the opinions of those in agreement with you?
I beg your pardon and I will be blatantly offensive for just a moment and this comment will not represent me accurately and is based on only my experiences. But what I have found the most difficult barrier in communicating about cancer and subsequent risk according to factors such as age, weight and/or educational status when crossing generations is the fact many women from previous generations (in addition to many from my own)come from the 'girls are not good at math and science' and 'do not question the man with a scalpel or clipboard' framework. Having said that: I know that many exceptions exist across all ages, outside of my own limited sphere of observation.
So, do you simply ignore statistics and the black hole that is research on young cancer patients in favor of adopting your own brand of misplaced anger? Though often couched within an emotional plea of distress, as a group young cancer patients are under represented and our demands for tailored research and services are perfectly reasonable.
This increased sense of anger and fear you are very accurately perceiving in younger cancer patients is directly related to the increased risk of mortality due to a cancer diagnoses. The same treatment when administered to a 60 y/o and a 20 y/o is much MUCH less likely to save the life of the 20 year old. So, how would you propose the 20 year old feel about this, or the 30 year old with children that cannot even bath themselves?
Ask yourself if you would rather have cancer at 60 or 20, including the implied changes in risk, and then give yourself and this community the benefit of an honest answer. If you say 20 you are either a fool or a liar.
I see on here that comments are often taken as personal that are simple observations, not judgments. Seemingly you cannot tell a woman she is an in appropriate age or size for participating in something, anything-no how appropriate the circumstances (ie: epidemiological studies) without her taking it as a personal slight. Its ridiculous, but that is just my opinion.
Do not presume to assess my maturity based on my age or quote Mr. Shaw at me. If you want to judge me based on my membership to a particular demographic, have the decency to craft the insult yourself.

rykrite

missmuffet said:

statistics
Did you read the facts posted, or just the opinions of those in agreement with you?
I beg your pardon and I will be blatantly offensive for just a moment and this comment will not represent me accurately and is based on only my experiences. But what I have found the most difficult barrier in communicating about cancer and subsequent risk according to factors such as age, weight and/or educational status when crossing generations is the fact many women from previous generations (in addition to many from my own)come from the 'girls are not good at math and science' and 'do not question the man with a scalpel or clipboard' framework. Having said that: I know that many exceptions exist across all ages, outside of my own limited sphere of observation.
So, do you simply ignore statistics and the black hole that is research on young cancer patients in favor of adopting your own brand of misplaced anger? Though often couched within an emotional plea of distress, as a group young cancer patients are under represented and our demands for tailored research and services are perfectly reasonable.
This increased sense of anger and fear you are very accurately perceiving in younger cancer patients is directly related to the increased risk of mortality due to a cancer diagnoses. The same treatment when administered to a 60 y/o and a 20 y/o is much MUCH less likely to save the life of the 20 year old. So, how would you propose the 20 year old feel about this, or the 30 year old with children that cannot even bath themselves?
Ask yourself if you would rather have cancer at 60 or 20, including the implied changes in risk, and then give yourself and this community the benefit of an honest answer. If you say 20 you are either a fool or a liar.
I see on here that comments are often taken as personal that are simple observations, not judgments. Seemingly you cannot tell a woman she is an in appropriate age or size for participating in something, anything-no how appropriate the circumstances (ie: epidemiological studies) without her taking it as a personal slight. Its ridiculous, but that is just my opinion.
Do not presume to assess my maturity based on my age or quote Mr. Shaw at me. If you want to judge me based on my membership to a particular demographic, have the decency to craft the insult yourself.

George Bernard Shaw quotes
G.B.S. also wrote, "I want to be all used up when I die." I think that he might agree that getting a life threatening disease early in life might threaten his ability to do so.

kbc4869

missmuffet said:

statistics
Did you read the facts posted, or just the opinions of those in agreement with you?
I beg your pardon and I will be blatantly offensive for just a moment and this comment will not represent me accurately and is based on only my experiences. But what I have found the most difficult barrier in communicating about cancer and subsequent risk according to factors such as age, weight and/or educational status when crossing generations is the fact many women from previous generations (in addition to many from my own)come from the 'girls are not good at math and science' and 'do not question the man with a scalpel or clipboard' framework. Having said that: I know that many exceptions exist across all ages, outside of my own limited sphere of observation.
So, do you simply ignore statistics and the black hole that is research on young cancer patients in favor of adopting your own brand of misplaced anger? Though often couched within an emotional plea of distress, as a group young cancer patients are under represented and our demands for tailored research and services are perfectly reasonable.
This increased sense of anger and fear you are very accurately perceiving in younger cancer patients is directly related to the increased risk of mortality due to a cancer diagnoses. The same treatment when administered to a 60 y/o and a 20 y/o is much MUCH less likely to save the life of the 20 year old. So, how would you propose the 20 year old feel about this, or the 30 year old with children that cannot even bath themselves?
Ask yourself if you would rather have cancer at 60 or 20, including the implied changes in risk, and then give yourself and this community the benefit of an honest answer. If you say 20 you are either a fool or a liar.
I see on here that comments are often taken as personal that are simple observations, not judgments. Seemingly you cannot tell a woman she is an in appropriate age or size for participating in something, anything-no how appropriate the circumstances (ie: epidemiological studies) without her taking it as a personal slight. Its ridiculous, but that is just my opinion.
Do not presume to assess my maturity based on my age or quote Mr. Shaw at me. If you want to judge me based on my membership to a particular demographic, have the decency to craft the insult yourself.

An Ask
Dear Sister,

It is possible for us too to follow and read your threads on the young survivors bulletin board. Anyone reading them can see that you too are a tight knit group whom supports each other. I'm glad and respect it.

These boards are sacred and safe places. For some, it's the only place they have to go for support. If we can agree on one thing, let's agree that we need to keep our sisterhood boards as places that are conducive to healing and nurturing.

Please respect our tight-knit community of sisters as we respect yours. If it isn't possible for us to have constructive dialog about our likenesses and differences, then maybe we should just let it be, part ways, and wish each other well.

Thank you in advance for your understanding,

Kim

RE

missmuffet said:

statistics
Did you read the facts posted, or just the opinions of those in agreement with you?
I beg your pardon and I will be blatantly offensive for just a moment and this comment will not represent me accurately and is based on only my experiences. But what I have found the most difficult barrier in communicating about cancer and subsequent risk according to factors such as age, weight and/or educational status when crossing generations is the fact many women from previous generations (in addition to many from my own)come from the 'girls are not good at math and science' and 'do not question the man with a scalpel or clipboard' framework. Having said that: I know that many exceptions exist across all ages, outside of my own limited sphere of observation.
So, do you simply ignore statistics and the black hole that is research on young cancer patients in favor of adopting your own brand of misplaced anger? Though often couched within an emotional plea of distress, as a group young cancer patients are under represented and our demands for tailored research and services are perfectly reasonable.
This increased sense of anger and fear you are very accurately perceiving in younger cancer patients is directly related to the increased risk of mortality due to a cancer diagnoses. The same treatment when administered to a 60 y/o and a 20 y/o is much MUCH less likely to save the life of the 20 year old. So, how would you propose the 20 year old feel about this, or the 30 year old with children that cannot even bath themselves?
Ask yourself if you would rather have cancer at 60 or 20, including the implied changes in risk, and then give yourself and this community the benefit of an honest answer. If you say 20 you are either a fool or a liar.
I see on here that comments are often taken as personal that are simple observations, not judgments. Seemingly you cannot tell a woman she is an in appropriate age or size for participating in something, anything-no how appropriate the circumstances (ie: epidemiological studies) without her taking it as a personal slight. Its ridiculous, but that is just my opinion.
Do not presume to assess my maturity based on my age or quote Mr. Shaw at me. If you want to judge me based on my membership to a particular demographic, have the decency to craft the insult yourself.

ASK QUESTIONS
Miss Muffet,

I am writting in response to the portion of your letter where you mention "girls are not good at math and science' and 'do not question the man with a scalpel or clipboard framework." Most cancer patients that I know of do not have this mentality which is what is sustaining their lives. I am writting just to say I hope we all are questioning our doctors and requestioning them when we do not understand something. You see my mother got cancer at 40 and died at 63, she had a 10 year and 15 year old when she was first diagnoised. I got my first cancer at 40 and I had a 13 and 15 year old at home, cancer is no fun at any age. If my mom had not asked the doctors questions she would never have made it to 63. My second cancer was found only because I insisted there was more than a cold or bladder infection going on. The reality is i had cancer again and my body could not fight off the little stuff because it was dealing with the cancer. None of us want to die, not at 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 or at any age. I watched as my mother fought to stay here so she could see her grandchildren's children and just last year I watched as my 58 (FAR TOO YOUNG) year old sister lost her 18 year battle with cancer and my 62 year old sister in-law lost her battle with cancer. Cancer sucks no matter how young or not so young you are. This is a point I think we can all agree upon. Lets all please stop this bickering, it is so unnecessary and pointless. I do not personally know you and you do not personally know me. That said I do know you are a person with cancer and of value as am I. I hope whatever difficulties come your way that you will find the support and care that you need so that you can live a long and happy life!

My best to you,

RE

missmuffet

kbc4869 said:

An Ask
Dear Sister,

It is possible for us too to follow and read your threads on the young survivors bulletin board. Anyone reading them can see that you too are a tight knit group whom supports each other. I'm glad and respect it.

These boards are sacred and safe places. For some, it's the only place they have to go for support. If we can agree on one thing, let's agree that we need to keep our sisterhood boards as places that are conducive to healing and nurturing.

Please respect our tight-knit community of sisters as we respect yours. If it isn't possible for us to have constructive dialog about our likenesses and differences, then maybe we should just let it be, part ways, and wish each other well.

Thank you in advance for your understanding,

Kim

I think we all came on here
I think we all came on here to have a constructive dialogue only to be met with judgment and condescension.
We all looked to ACS at one point and found information lacking on resources that pertain to our needs (of course much of the information is/was very helpful).
The loss of a loved one at any age is horrific, as is a cancer diagnosis. None of us ever implied otherwise. Please remember that myself and many of my YSC sisters logged on here in an attempt to say that yes, we could really use ACS having more information and resources available for young people affected by cancer and that it would be helpful to the newly diagnosed to be connected to these resources. Of course ACS is the first place everyone facing down a cancer diagnosis turns to.
Most of us have stated simple facts and attempted to explain how a diagnosis at a young age necessitates the need for a few different services and often a unique interpretation of the available literature on treatment options.
I cannot believe some of the comments made about young people here. Not one of us 'young people' made derisive comments about older people....well, with the exception of my last comment about math, science and erm, certain people. That was wrong of me, but the apples and oranges discussion here made me think of a conversation with a woman and about the different factors taken into consideration when estimating risk of recurrence and she responded by professing a strong belief in the positive attitude method of cancer prevention. What is the use of information under such circumstances? Many people here are determined to believe that there is no difference between younger and older people when it comes to cancer-so no amount of data or information seems likely to change this.
We are coming here with information and yet being criticized about our attitudes. No one disputes that facts, they just push them aside in an attempt to delegitimatize our points based on a preconceived notion that young people lack sense. This may be true of many young people, but not those forced to quantify their odds of living to see 40 or that have had a price tag placed the privilege of having children.
If any of you in your 40s, 50s or 60s had your 20 year old daughter diagnosed with breast cancer would you honestly think its the same? Especially considering her significantly increased risk of dying of the disease.
Cancer can certainly take just as much of an emotional toll on older people and their families as their younger counterparts. My own points about younger populations centered around; greatly increased risk of recurrence, lack of recommendations for age appropriate treatment and services that deal with some of the unique predicaments that younger cancer patients face. None of us ever said we missed our ivory towers or flowing locks...neither of which I had before, anyway.

missmuffet

RE said:

ASK QUESTIONS
Miss Muffet,

I am writting in response to the portion of your letter where you mention "girls are not good at math and science' and 'do not question the man with a scalpel or clipboard framework." Most cancer patients that I know of do not have this mentality which is what is sustaining their lives. I am writting just to say I hope we all are questioning our doctors and requestioning them when we do not understand something. You see my mother got cancer at 40 and died at 63, she had a 10 year and 15 year old when she was first diagnoised. I got my first cancer at 40 and I had a 13 and 15 year old at home, cancer is no fun at any age. If my mom had not asked the doctors questions she would never have made it to 63. My second cancer was found only because I insisted there was more than a cold or bladder infection going on. The reality is i had cancer again and my body could not fight off the little stuff because it was dealing with the cancer. None of us want to die, not at 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 or at any age. I watched as my mother fought to stay here so she could see her grandchildren's children and just last year I watched as my 58 (FAR TOO YOUNG) year old sister lost her 18 year battle with cancer and my 62 year old sister in-law lost her battle with cancer. Cancer sucks no matter how young or not so young you are. This is a point I think we can all agree upon. Lets all please stop this bickering, it is so unnecessary and pointless. I do not personally know you and you do not personally know me. That said I do know you are a person with cancer and of value as am I. I hope whatever difficulties come your way that you will find the support and care that you need so that you can live a long and happy life!

My best to you,

RE

RE, please know that I hate to hear that cancer has afflicted your family so. My goal is certainly not to trivialize the very real suffering that cancer brings to all it encounters.

Irishwhispers

OMG
Chen you express yourself with honesty sincerety and geniunely
Eloquently even tooooooooooooooo!
So I am gonna say .. yeah .. what she said!! *Smiles*

I think that I have to say here and now..and againnnnnnn... that if Jack had made a simple non threatening post.. none of this bitterness would be going on among all of us WHO DO HAVE A COMMON DENOMINATOR HERE!!!! C A N C E R ! ! ! ! ! ! ! DUH!!!!
And everyones situation is "Different" I will give them that... ( them 1 Us 100) Just kidding!!
HOWEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the outline to the story is the same for us all!!!
WE HAVE LIVES WE ARE LIVING.. it doesnt matter how old we are precancer ... sorry it doesnt... because we all have plans on what we want to do with our lives... regardless, of age... I wanted a big family I didnt get it... like I said .. Complete Hysterectomy @ the age of 27!!!! I couldnt pick my second child up ... i had to have some one pick her up for me... and I could go on and on here... I wont.. but the point Im making is .. LIFE IS NOT A SWEET SERENADE all the time AND THAT IS WHY THERES ROCK & ROLL.... thing is no matter what we can or cant do .. or could or couldnt do... we found ways around them to get through the best we can or could... and what didnt work.. became background noise so to speak...

So... with that being said.... I say this ONCE AGAIN...

LET US STAND UNITED & RALLY FOR A CURE of ALL CANCERS of ALL AGES... with our faces to the wind let natures music be heard, and and the differences fade and the dust will scatter ...
but we can vacuum in the morning.!!

Love ya girlfriend, sister and dearest friend

Trish

CrazyOldLady

missmuffet said:

I think we all came on here
I think we all came on here to have a constructive dialogue only to be met with judgment and condescension.
We all looked to ACS at one point and found information lacking on resources that pertain to our needs (of course much of the information is/was very helpful).
The loss of a loved one at any age is horrific, as is a cancer diagnosis. None of us ever implied otherwise. Please remember that myself and many of my YSC sisters logged on here in an attempt to say that yes, we could really use ACS having more information and resources available for young people affected by cancer and that it would be helpful to the newly diagnosed to be connected to these resources. Of course ACS is the first place everyone facing down a cancer diagnosis turns to.
Most of us have stated simple facts and attempted to explain how a diagnosis at a young age necessitates the need for a few different services and often a unique interpretation of the available literature on treatment options.
I cannot believe some of the comments made about young people here. Not one of us 'young people' made derisive comments about older people....well, with the exception of my last comment about math, science and erm, certain people. That was wrong of me, but the apples and oranges discussion here made me think of a conversation with a woman and about the different factors taken into consideration when estimating risk of recurrence and she responded by professing a strong belief in the positive attitude method of cancer prevention. What is the use of information under such circumstances? Many people here are determined to believe that there is no difference between younger and older people when it comes to cancer-so no amount of data or information seems likely to change this.
We are coming here with information and yet being criticized about our attitudes. No one disputes that facts, they just push them aside in an attempt to delegitimatize our points based on a preconceived notion that young people lack sense. This may be true of many young people, but not those forced to quantify their odds of living to see 40 or that have had a price tag placed the privilege of having children.
If any of you in your 40s, 50s or 60s had your 20 year old daughter diagnosed with breast cancer would you honestly think its the same? Especially considering her significantly increased risk of dying of the disease.
Cancer can certainly take just as much of an emotional toll on older people and their families as their younger counterparts. My own points about younger populations centered around; greatly increased risk of recurrence, lack of recommendations for age appropriate treatment and services that deal with some of the unique predicaments that younger cancer patients face. None of us ever said we missed our ivory towers or flowing locks...neither of which I had before, anyway.

Sisters, forgive me. I know
Sisters, forgive me. I know this isn't constructive, but I'm going to let loose. What the heck. I've got nothing left to lose.

Muffett -- you are correct in your facts. You've done your homework and you're obviously educated. There isn't a woman on this board who doesn't want you to get the research and support you need or for you to die in the near future. But here's the thing -- life lesson #1 -- if you're rude to people, they don't want to listen to you or deal with you. It doesn't matter if you're right. Everything you say after a rude comment or with a condescending tone is ignored. I think most of us agree with you, but we don't like your tone.

Life Lesson #2: Life throws us all curve balls. It think you've insinuated that the worst problem we face is missing our hair and our "ivory" towers back. Honey, we're not sitting around knitting scarves and baking cookies -- we got jobs that suck, we're breadwinners, we've got children dying and killing themselves, grandchildren to raise as a result, bills to pay, partners and kids on drugs, and no money. Our husbands are leaving or in complete denial that we might die. We can't talk to them; that's why we're here. We're getting fired because we're sick all the time. Or our kids are doing drugs because their afraid we're going to die. Oh, and many of us do have young children for whom few hours pass that it doesn't occur to us that we may not be here to raise them into adults. Yeah, it's a real hoot here in "stupid," "uneducated" old, hot flashy bald woman land. We don't get it? Sure we do, honey. Our hearts break for you. We know what your dreams are because we had some of those dreams too. Some of us got to live them -- yes! And we were lucky. Some of us didn't -- and were still hoping to. We have regrets that we're afraid will go unspoken or unfulfilled. Most of all we know that we are needed by our families. And we don't want to leave them.

Yes, Little Ms. Muffitt, this disease sure isn't for sissies. You're not telling us anything we don't already know. If we're lucky, we've been fighting the beast for several years and have made it through various diagnoses and treatments. We're missing our breasts, ovaries, and various other body parts just like you -- if we're lucky. We're going to lose some of our wonderful board sisters this year too. And yes, they will be young and old. And we will mourn and miss them and think about our own mortality. And we will also take the time to laugh, giggle and celebrate our achievements. Oh, and I know you're going to find this hard to believe but . . . . psssst. We like sex too! We miss our hormones and drives too. And we could probably teach you a couple of things about "toys." Feel free to submit your questions, my dears, and we'll answer them in the order they are received.

AND despite your rude behavior on this board -- we still care about you. That's the mother thing in us. We just can't help ourselves. It doesn’t matter that we no longer produce estrogen. We're simply teeming in it! Rage against us. Tell us we don't understand, that we don't get it. That you're smarter than us -- you have all the answers. We know. We understand. And we're used to it by now. And we forgive you, too.

Hugs and Love to All Sisters!
Just A Crazy Old Woman

zahalene

Irishwhispers said:

OMG
Chen you express yourself with honesty sincerety and geniunely
Eloquently even tooooooooooooooo!
So I am gonna say .. yeah .. what she said!! *Smiles*

I think that I have to say here and now..and againnnnnnn... that if Jack had made a simple non threatening post.. none of this bitterness would be going on among all of us WHO DO HAVE A COMMON DENOMINATOR HERE!!!! C A N C E R ! ! ! ! ! ! ! DUH!!!!
And everyones situation is "Different" I will give them that... ( them 1 Us 100) Just kidding!!
HOWEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the outline to the story is the same for us all!!!
WE HAVE LIVES WE ARE LIVING.. it doesnt matter how old we are precancer ... sorry it doesnt... because we all have plans on what we want to do with our lives... regardless, of age... I wanted a big family I didnt get it... like I said .. Complete Hysterectomy @ the age of 27!!!! I couldnt pick my second child up ... i had to have some one pick her up for me... and I could go on and on here... I wont.. but the point Im making is .. LIFE IS NOT A SWEET SERENADE all the time AND THAT IS WHY THERES ROCK & ROLL.... thing is no matter what we can or cant do .. or could or couldnt do... we found ways around them to get through the best we can or could... and what didnt work.. became background noise so to speak...

So... with that being said.... I say this ONCE AGAIN...

LET US STAND UNITED & RALLY FOR A CURE of ALL CANCERS of ALL AGES... with our faces to the wind let natures music be heard, and and the differences fade and the dust will scatter ...
but we can vacuum in the morning.!!

Love ya girlfriend, sister and dearest friend

Trish

Dr Phil
You know what he would say? That we are giving our power away to somebody named 'Jack' whom we don't know and have never met and probably never will meet. But because he posted an inflamatory comment we are still at odds with each other days later. What a shame.

missmuffet

CrazyOldLady said:

Sisters, forgive me. I know
Sisters, forgive me. I know this isn't constructive, but I'm going to let loose. What the heck. I've got nothing left to lose.

Muffett -- you are correct in your facts. You've done your homework and you're obviously educated. There isn't a woman on this board who doesn't want you to get the research and support you need or for you to die in the near future. But here's the thing -- life lesson #1 -- if you're rude to people, they don't want to listen to you or deal with you. It doesn't matter if you're right. Everything you say after a rude comment or with a condescending tone is ignored. I think most of us agree with you, but we don't like your tone.

Life Lesson #2: Life throws us all curve balls. It think you've insinuated that the worst problem we face is missing our hair and our "ivory" towers back. Honey, we're not sitting around knitting scarves and baking cookies -- we got jobs that suck, we're breadwinners, we've got children dying and killing themselves, grandchildren to raise as a result, bills to pay, partners and kids on drugs, and no money. Our husbands are leaving or in complete denial that we might die. We can't talk to them; that's why we're here. We're getting fired because we're sick all the time. Or our kids are doing drugs because their afraid we're going to die. Oh, and many of us do have young children for whom few hours pass that it doesn't occur to us that we may not be here to raise them into adults. Yeah, it's a real hoot here in "stupid," "uneducated" old, hot flashy bald woman land. We don't get it? Sure we do, honey. Our hearts break for you. We know what your dreams are because we had some of those dreams too. Some of us got to live them -- yes! And we were lucky. Some of us didn't -- and were still hoping to. We have regrets that we're afraid will go unspoken or unfulfilled. Most of all we know that we are needed by our families. And we don't want to leave them.

Yes, Little Ms. Muffitt, this disease sure isn't for sissies. You're not telling us anything we don't already know. If we're lucky, we've been fighting the beast for several years and have made it through various diagnoses and treatments. We're missing our breasts, ovaries, and various other body parts just like you -- if we're lucky. We're going to lose some of our wonderful board sisters this year too. And yes, they will be young and old. And we will mourn and miss them and think about our own mortality. And we will also take the time to laugh, giggle and celebrate our achievements. Oh, and I know you're going to find this hard to believe but . . . . psssst. We like sex too! We miss our hormones and drives too. And we could probably teach you a couple of things about "toys." Feel free to submit your questions, my dears, and we'll answer them in the order they are received.

AND despite your rude behavior on this board -- we still care about you. That's the mother thing in us. We just can't help ourselves. It doesn’t matter that we no longer produce estrogen. We're simply teeming in it! Rage against us. Tell us we don't understand, that we don't get it. That you're smarter than us -- you have all the answers. We know. We understand. And we're used to it by now. And we forgive you, too.

Hugs and Love to All Sisters!
Just A Crazy Old Woman

dble post

dble post

missmuffet

zahalene said:

Dr Phil
You know what he would say? That we are giving our power away to somebody named 'Jack' whom we don't know and have never met and probably never will meet. But because he posted an inflamatory comment we are still at odds with each other days later. What a shame.

Crazy Old Lady
Dear COL (I know you probably chose this moniker, but I really cannot bring myself to address you as such-sorry),
Please note that I apologized for my rather rude comment, and even when delivering the insult included my own "crowd" within it. I had to assume that since the facts delivered were summarily ignored rather than that they were not understood, so can only assume that this was a willful sort of ignorance and not based on intellectual shortcomings of the audience in question. (If I thought it was, I would not have made such a snarky comment.)
This is not normally my style and I do my upbringing a huge disservice by resorting to it. But.....COL-have you read the other thread? No one has offered up a single apology for the extremely hostile reception all of the young women received here when we came to show our support and interest in resources to target our demographic and support some of our unique needs.
Oh, and I never mentioned anything about sex. I would never, ever do so in 'public'. It is not my way. You are confusing me with another young, slightly bolder, woman than myself.
I believe in every single one of my posts I acknowledged the fear and emotional distress that a cancer diagnosis brings to us all, regardless of age. In this we are certainly all equal.
My attempts at communication were primarily on a thread targeting young survivors, as such we were all very excited at the prospect of the ACS acknowledging the variability in populations impacted by cancer and offering a broader array of services and information. But we can see quite clearly that such services are not welcome here.
I will say that cancer is, actually, different for different individuals. How so is not always known at the time. The term 'cancer' is a lay term and implies false homogeneity. So, if healthy cells (like skin cells) replicate faster in young people, does it not make some sense that (in general) atypical/cancer cells do so as well?
My interest here was in getting treatment for young cancer patients that addresses these differences. And yes, also for those young women that want to retain their fertility when possible, or connect with others that have young children, or get assistance in finding agencies that will represent cancer patients in the adoption process. I guess I would like to see the ACS and its community facilitating access to these resources for those who need or want them.
I fail to see how helping more groups must needs make existing groups feel shortchanged or unwelcome.
Oh, and I do actually have a mother and she is positively horrified by the behavior exhibited and comments made by some of the more "mature" members here. Just in case any of you are tempted to write HER off as immature: she is 57, single mother of two, has learned three languages, she survived the holocaust/WWII as a child before immigrating from Germany, was the first in her family to graduate from high school and has two college degrees. So by any and all measures she should qualify as mature.
Wishing all of you peace and good health with all sincerity,
MM
(By the way I came on to this thread originally because I like old nursery rhymes.)

Eil4186

CrazyOldLady said:

Sisters, forgive me. I know
Sisters, forgive me. I know this isn't constructive, but I'm going to let loose. What the heck. I've got nothing left to lose.

Muffett -- you are correct in your facts. You've done your homework and you're obviously educated. There isn't a woman on this board who doesn't want you to get the research and support you need or for you to die in the near future. But here's the thing -- life lesson #1 -- if you're rude to people, they don't want to listen to you or deal with you. It doesn't matter if you're right. Everything you say after a rude comment or with a condescending tone is ignored. I think most of us agree with you, but we don't like your tone.

Life Lesson #2: Life throws us all curve balls. It think you've insinuated that the worst problem we face is missing our hair and our "ivory" towers back. Honey, we're not sitting around knitting scarves and baking cookies -- we got jobs that suck, we're breadwinners, we've got children dying and killing themselves, grandchildren to raise as a result, bills to pay, partners and kids on drugs, and no money. Our husbands are leaving or in complete denial that we might die. We can't talk to them; that's why we're here. We're getting fired because we're sick all the time. Or our kids are doing drugs because their afraid we're going to die. Oh, and many of us do have young children for whom few hours pass that it doesn't occur to us that we may not be here to raise them into adults. Yeah, it's a real hoot here in "stupid," "uneducated" old, hot flashy bald woman land. We don't get it? Sure we do, honey. Our hearts break for you. We know what your dreams are because we had some of those dreams too. Some of us got to live them -- yes! And we were lucky. Some of us didn't -- and were still hoping to. We have regrets that we're afraid will go unspoken or unfulfilled. Most of all we know that we are needed by our families. And we don't want to leave them.

Yes, Little Ms. Muffitt, this disease sure isn't for sissies. You're not telling us anything we don't already know. If we're lucky, we've been fighting the beast for several years and have made it through various diagnoses and treatments. We're missing our breasts, ovaries, and various other body parts just like you -- if we're lucky. We're going to lose some of our wonderful board sisters this year too. And yes, they will be young and old. And we will mourn and miss them and think about our own mortality. And we will also take the time to laugh, giggle and celebrate our achievements. Oh, and I know you're going to find this hard to believe but . . . . psssst. We like sex too! We miss our hormones and drives too. And we could probably teach you a couple of things about "toys." Feel free to submit your questions, my dears, and we'll answer them in the order they are received.

AND despite your rude behavior on this board -- we still care about you. That's the mother thing in us. We just can't help ourselves. It doesn’t matter that we no longer produce estrogen. We're simply teeming in it! Rage against us. Tell us we don't understand, that we don't get it. That you're smarter than us -- you have all the answers. We know. We understand. And we're used to it by now. And we forgive you, too.

Hugs and Love to All Sisters!
Just A Crazy Old Woman

You said it!!!
Here, here! You said it all in a nutshell!!! Thank you for articulating what I have been feeling. Eil

CrazyOldLady

missmuffet said:

Crazy Old Lady
Dear COL (I know you probably chose this moniker, but I really cannot bring myself to address you as such-sorry),
Please note that I apologized for my rather rude comment, and even when delivering the insult included my own "crowd" within it. I had to assume that since the facts delivered were summarily ignored rather than that they were not understood, so can only assume that this was a willful sort of ignorance and not based on intellectual shortcomings of the audience in question. (If I thought it was, I would not have made such a snarky comment.)
This is not normally my style and I do my upbringing a huge disservice by resorting to it. But.....COL-have you read the other thread? No one has offered up a single apology for the extremely hostile reception all of the young women received here when we came to show our support and interest in resources to target our demographic and support some of our unique needs.
Oh, and I never mentioned anything about sex. I would never, ever do so in 'public'. It is not my way. You are confusing me with another young, slightly bolder, woman than myself.
I believe in every single one of my posts I acknowledged the fear and emotional distress that a cancer diagnosis brings to us all, regardless of age. In this we are certainly all equal.
My attempts at communication were primarily on a thread targeting young survivors, as such we were all very excited at the prospect of the ACS acknowledging the variability in populations impacted by cancer and offering a broader array of services and information. But we can see quite clearly that such services are not welcome here.
I will say that cancer is, actually, different for different individuals. How so is not always known at the time. The term 'cancer' is a lay term and implies false homogeneity. So, if healthy cells (like skin cells) replicate faster in young people, does it not make some sense that (in general) atypical/cancer cells do so as well?
My interest here was in getting treatment for young cancer patients that addresses these differences. And yes, also for those young women that want to retain their fertility when possible, or connect with others that have young children, or get assistance in finding agencies that will represent cancer patients in the adoption process. I guess I would like to see the ACS and its community facilitating access to these resources for those who need or want them.
I fail to see how helping more groups must needs make existing groups feel shortchanged or unwelcome.
Oh, and I do actually have a mother and she is positively horrified by the behavior exhibited and comments made by some of the more "mature" members here. Just in case any of you are tempted to write HER off as immature: she is 57, single mother of two, has learned three languages, she survived the holocaust/WWII as a child before immigrating from Germany, was the first in her family to graduate from high school and has two college degrees. So by any and all measures she should qualify as mature.
Wishing all of you peace and good health with all sincerity,
MM
(By the way I came on to this thread originally because I like old nursery rhymes.)

Still Crazy
I have had some time to stew and went back and reread the posts last night. I see your perspective. I respect the info that you and your young coutnerparts are trying to get across. No, age doesn't equal maturity. I think a lot of us women of the 60's have a tendency to have that "Everything is everything" mentality just because we've come to see that everything is cicular. What you put out there, comes back to you. I am only as different from someone else as I make myself be. As women, we bare so much pain. Loving our children hurts. Loving our lovers hurts. Living life hurts when you do it long enough. And yet there is such incredible joy in bearing that pain. I hope you and your young friends get to feel and understand all the pain, love and joy that comes from living a long bumpy magnificient life.

I have been a lurking sister for years on this board. I've never spoken to them directly, nor them to me, buut I feel as if I know them and they know me in a sense better than my own family. Be kind to them and kind to yourselves. My mother, a holocaust survivor herself, once told me that if you have the choice of being kind or right, choose kind. Of course, I didn't always listen to her. Now that she's dead, maybe I should start. We're never to old to learn something.

Peace be with you.