My Brother-in-law is delaying treatment to pursue Alternative therapies. Help!

madmadeleine

My brother-in-law has colon cancer. He has Kaiser Permanente insurance and has not been treated well so far by the doctors there.

His little sister, who is in Florida is into "alternative medicine." So Tom now is more disposed to seek “alternative treatment” than continue pursuing getting help at Kaiser, especially because they have treated him so badly and seem unwilling to help. He just met Turillo Simoncini who claims to cure cancer with baking soda.

I have read online that this “doctor” has been convicted of involuntary manslaughter and stripped of his medical license in Italy. But little sister says that’s just a smear campaign because curing cancer would mean that the medical establishment wouldn’t make lots of money!

It doesn’t help that no one at Kaiser seems to care. No one has taken responsibility for his case. I have been with him in the surgeon's office at Kaiser Permanente and the surgeon acted like a jerk!

This is the second surgeon Tom has seen at Kaiser Permanente in Los Angeles. I wasn't at the first appointment, but apparantly that did not go well either.

According to Tom this was what happened: He arrived early for his appointment but was made to wait 40 minutes before a nurse brought him in to take his BP. At this time she asked him about his having the enemas as instructed. This was the first time Tom heard that he had been expected to use 2 fleet enemas 2 hours prior to his appointment. He told her that he had not gotten any instructions from the girl who made the appointment.

When the surgeon saw Tom he was angry at Tom for not being prepared to be scoped during this visit. When I talked to Tom the words he used to describe the doctor were rude and abusive. Maybe the doctor assumed that Tom was lying about not getting instructions when he made his appointment.

The doctor did not make any effort to be helpful or sympathetic. He said that depending on the location of the tumor, he would probably remove his colon and sphincter and Tom would have to wear a colostomy bag for the rest of his life. I'm not sure what else he said, but Tom was traumatized by what the doctor said. Stunned, Tom let them make an appointment for him to see the doctor again.

When Tom got home, he became angry about how he had been treated. He did not want to see this doctor again and did not want to allow him to perform surgery on him. So Tom called and cancelled his appointment.

Let me back up. Tom had a colonoscopy and a biopsy of the tumor tissue that determined it was cancer. He had a CT scan with contrast. He was told that the CT scan did not show any signs of cancer outside of his colon. That is all the information they gave him. At that point no one would answer any questions about the size and kind of cancer.

Tom agreed to let me help him try to navigate the Kaiser system, I got him an appointment with another surgeon, the supervisor of the first doctor. And from the moment he entered the room it was clear that he had conferred with the first doctor and had an attitude. I left while he scoped Tom and measured the location of the cancer.

Then we went into his office for a discussion. He said the tumor was 12cm from the end of the line. I had tried to ask questions, but since I am only the sister-in-law, the doctor shut me down saying only the patient could ask questions (Tom is not married.) When I asked Tom to ask the doctor how big the tumor was, the doctor first said it didn't matter! Then he said it was about so big and held up his finger and thumb about 1 1/2 to 2 inches apart. I didn’t get to measure.

We got no answer about the staging of the cancer. The surgeon said that would be determined after the surgery.

The doctor recommended radiation first to shrink the tumor and then surgery. I asked Tom to ask about the urgency of having the surgery. The doctor snapped that it had been there for a couple of years probably.

Tom said he needed to think about it and that he wanted to pursue “Alternative medicine.” The doctor if Tom wanted some time, that was okay. But he would make an appointment to discuss his decision the following week. He also said he would make an appointment with a radiologist and an oncologist for Tom and would call him with the appointment times.

Tom went home and decided he didn’t trust this doctor. He cancelled the follow-up appointment. So far he has appointments to see a radiologist and oncologist, but I am not sure he will go.

His sister says these are the worst kind of doctors who will poison him and irradiate him and destroy his body. Tom is now predisposed to not believe anything they may have to say.

He also has been telling people that his cancer is “slow-growing” though that not what the doctor said. He seems to be in denial that his condition is serious and that he needs real medical help soon.

He has stopped drinking and smoking dope and is eating a mostly vegan diet. He says he feels better than he has in years. He says his positive thoughts and newly adopted lifestyle changes are causing the tumor to shrink.

I joined this network to see if a survivor would be willing to reach out to Tom. He needs to hear another side of this story.

Can you help? Do you have any suggestions? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Maddy

tootsie1

Wow. Sounds like he has
Wow. Sounds like he has definitely seen some lousy doctors. However, I DO think he should pursue medical treatment for his cancer. If it is really not outside the walls of the colon, surgery would probably take care of it. That would be a colon resection. I was diagnosed Stage 1 last November and had a colon resection in which they took about 2 ft of my colon, then resected what was left. I have not had chemo or radiation or a colostomy. It is true that the doctors can't be absolutely positive about the stage of the cancer until after the surgery. They need to have the pathology reports to be sure it hasn't spread to the lymph nodes or anywhere else.

I would think your brother in-law would have an excellent chance for recovery if he would get treatment SOON. Colon cancer does grow slowly, but if it goes outside the walls of the colon, he will be told he needs chemo.

Please urge him to try to find some competent doctors to start treatment. Good luck! He's very lucky to have you in his corner.

Gail

nudgie

I was DX with Stage II colon cancer in 7/06 with no lymph nodes or signs of spreading, but I had to have emergency surgery to discover it was cancer. This is a disease and DX that will change your life and thinking process forever.

Receiving proper health care is the most important portion of receiving the news as well as th DX. I have heard too many horror stories of bad doctors, facilities, etc., where patients were put on the back burner as well as seeing friends pass from poor treatments.

I was told that since I was Stage II, the standard protocol was receiving adjundt chemotherapy (precuationary) because of the chance of mircocells still being in the body. It was a 50% / 50% chance of it returning without chemo, so I spoke with friends, family and prayed and decided to do the chemo. I was 42.

The chemo regime recommended was FLOFOX which consists of the following drugs: Oxyipliant (sp), lecovorin (sp) and 5FU. I have been NED ever since. I continue to get CT Scans and bloodwork every 6 months now.

When it comes to alterntive methods of curing cancer, there isn't any real studies or stats to confirm that alternative methods really work. There are alot of false protocols, doctors, methods, etc., out there to steal people's dreams and money.

There are alot of resources for you and your brother-in-law to research:

Major Cancer Centers:
MD Anderson
Sloan-Kettering
Mayo Clinic
John Hopkins

Resources:
American Cancer Society
National Institute of Health
People Living with Cancer

Unknown

tootsie1 said:

Wow. Sounds like he has
Wow. Sounds like he has definitely seen some lousy doctors. However, I DO think he should pursue medical treatment for his cancer. If it is really not outside the walls of the colon, surgery would probably take care of it. That would be a colon resection. I was diagnosed Stage 1 last November and had a colon resection in which they took about 2 ft of my colon, then resected what was left. I have not had chemo or radiation or a colostomy. It is true that the doctors can't be absolutely positive about the stage of the cancer until after the surgery. They need to have the pathology reports to be sure it hasn't spread to the lymph nodes or anywhere else.

I would think your brother in-law would have an excellent chance for recovery if he would get treatment SOON. Colon cancer does grow slowly, but if it goes outside the walls of the colon, he will be told he needs chemo.

Please urge him to try to find some competent doctors to start treatment. Good luck! He's very lucky to have you in his corner.

Gail

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

jenhopesprays

Maddy
First off, I would like to congratulate you for taking the bull by the horns with this situation. This is definitely not something to gamble with unproven treatments. Your brother needs to be complimented for diving into this healthy medical regimen but it is not enough.

I am not going to suggest he leave these doctors if this is the only place he has insurance. I know lots and lots of people who had colon cancer and were treated by the Kaiser docs with excellent results. It would seem radiation followed by surgery from the best surgeon he could get his hands on would be the correct treatment.

My suggestions:

1. You might make an appointment with my doctor Heinz-Joseph Lenz. He is a colon cancer expert at USC Norris Cancer Center. Pay for the appointment if he is not covered with insurance and let him review his case. He put me on the absolute best path for me to recover.

2. Purchase for him the book "Anti-Cancer A New Way of Life" By David Servan-Schreiber, MD, PHD. This guy, a researcher and scientist is a 14 year brain tumor survivor that relies heavily on diet, exercise, relaxation and mind body techniques to COMPLIMENT cancer. He very clearly states it is vital that we use modern medicine in conjunction with these other techniques. I think your brother-in-law will be able to relate to this guy as a doc who has gone through it. It is a very comforting book to read. The book clearly states that there is absolutely no scientifically proven medical "cures" gained from diet for people who already have cancer and it is vital to use both the medical community and alternative techniques. His section on avoiding charlatans might speak to him: He suggests staying away form practitioners who: refuse to work in collaboration with an oncologist and recommend stopping conventional treatments or suggest treatment whose effectiveness has not been proven and that have high risks. Avoid folks whose price is out of proportion to proof of benefits or promise that their approach is guaranteed to work, as long as you have a true desire to heal.

3. Get him to the Weellness Community. This is a free cancer support network and is wonderful. They are big in the Southern California area. Here is the link: www.thewellnesscommunity.org/

4. I am 40 years old. I have always been really big on healthy eating, am not overweight, exercised my whole life and generally been the picture of health and I still have stage 4 colon cancer. I believe in complimentary medicine big time. As an added bonus I have a sister who is a self proclaimed "herbalist" who thinks my cancer would be cured if I just ate cottage cheese blended with flax seed oil. I would be happy to talk to him or even meet with him. I live in Thousand Oaks. Drop me a line at weirone@gmail.com if you would like.

This is so beatable with the proper treatment. Andrew Weil, MD the guru of alternative medicine states in his book Spontaneous Healing that surgery is most definitely one of the most effect treatments we have to cure cancer today.

Wishing you the best,

Jennifer

msccolon

Your brother's diagnosis
I just have a few items to add to what has already been said. While it is true that colon cancer traditionally is a slow growing cancer, that's only if you are within the "normal" age range of colon cancer diagnosis, which is over 50; hence the reason they recommend colonoscopies beginning at the age of 50. If you are younger than that, the disease tends to be a bit more aggressive. Second, after I had the original resection and chemo, I chose to make my body stronger by juicing, cutting out sugar and eating whole foods only. I can definitely say that I felt stronger, lost weight and generally felt so much healthier than I had in a long while. However, my cancer liked the diet change as well ... 2 years after my original diagnosis, i was back in for the removal of a tumor on my ovary that was the size of a soccer ball; a recurrence of my colon cancer. But even with that there is good news! I am now 2 years out from that surgery, having done chemo again, and I am now NED! I guess what I really want to convey is that there is a LOT of information out there regarding alternative therapies, and some definitely DO work for SOME cancer survivors. Our bodies are so different, and even the cancer that attacks can be so different. Your brother needs to make the best decision for HIM, but he needs to have all the information before him before making that decision! He can't make it out of fear or even disgust over the doctors he's been involved with thus far. I pray you will be able to get through to him soon and he decides to seek out a human being for his next oncologist. I believe the majority of people involved with oncology are wonderful human beings; there are just always the total idiots as in any line of work. And he is truly blessed to have you as a sister-in-law; your concern for his welfare is admirable and I am sure once his initial shock of diagnosis wears off he will see the wisdom in your advice; don't give up! And come back often, we want to hear how things progress! Mary

2bhealed

Alternative Medicine
Hello Maddy,

I am living proof that alternatives to the typical treatments can work. I did opt to have surgery to remove my tumor since the blockage was creating intense pain. I was Stage 3 so it had moved into my lymph but had not spread to any organs.

I opted to heal from cancer using a variety of methods that in Western culture is deemed alternative.

Chemo is serious stuff that in my parents lifetime was considered quackery when they began using mustard gas poison on cancer. So I wouldn't pooh-pooh something like baking soda that alkalizes tumors and kills them off (cancer cannot live in an alkaline environment).

I understand that getting a cancer diagnosis can be a scary thing in of itself, but chemo comes with very strong repercussions some of which are:

permanent heart damage
permanent kidney damage
peripheral neuropathy
secondary cancers
chemo-induced luekemia

not to mention the rashes, mouth sores, hair loss, fatigue, diarrhea, dehydration etc etc.

What I chose to do was CHEMA which is the juice of the plant. I juiced fresh organic veggies up to 3 quarts daily while eating a vegan macrobiotic diet. This gave my body a chance to heal and built up my immune system rather than obliterating it which is what chemo does. The enzymes in the raw foods worked to repair my damaged digestive system since anyone with colon cancer has a digestive problem. Chemo will not do this.

CHEMA is all about restoring and repairing and helping the body heal itself which is what our bodies are meant to do given the proper support.

Chemo is all about killing off--the good with the bad.

Choosing either route comes with consequences and there are no guarantees. But please allow your BIL to choose with your support. Please do research (not Quackwatch--they are not on the up and up and have an agenda) about alternative ways to heal the body. There are many out there.

It sounds like your BIL is actually on the right track for healing if he has already switched to a vegan diet (which is a great way for the digestive system to repair not having to work double time on digesting animal products--they stay in the digestive track for three days where as plant-based foods move quickly). Animal products are also very acid producing and cancer likes acidic foods so removing them and focusing on balancing the pH is quite helpful for healing.

There have been success stories on this site with alternatives and I know of a few personally who, when they juiced, had their tumors either FALL OUT or die and become benign masses. One friend wrote a book about her experience with her son called Your Child Doesn't Have To Die by Leanne Sorteberg.

I hope this helps give you some hope that maybe your BIL will do fine if he chooses a different route from the "normal" American way.

Here is some suggested reading for you both:

A Cancer Battle Plan by Anne Frahm
Spontaneous Healing by Dr. Andrew Weil
Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Balch and Balch
Questioning Chemo by Dr. Ralph Moss
Healing Cancer with Nutrition by Dr. Patrick Quillin

peace, emily

2bhealed

2bhealed said:

Alternative Medicine
Hello Maddy,

I am living proof that alternatives to the typical treatments can work. I did opt to have surgery to remove my tumor since the blockage was creating intense pain. I was Stage 3 so it had moved into my lymph but had not spread to any organs.

I opted to heal from cancer using a variety of methods that in Western culture is deemed alternative.

Chemo is serious stuff that in my parents lifetime was considered quackery when they began using mustard gas poison on cancer. So I wouldn't pooh-pooh something like baking soda that alkalizes tumors and kills them off (cancer cannot live in an alkaline environment).

I understand that getting a cancer diagnosis can be a scary thing in of itself, but chemo comes with very strong repercussions some of which are:

permanent heart damage
permanent kidney damage
peripheral neuropathy
secondary cancers
chemo-induced luekemia

not to mention the rashes, mouth sores, hair loss, fatigue, diarrhea, dehydration etc etc.

What I chose to do was CHEMA which is the juice of the plant. I juiced fresh organic veggies up to 3 quarts daily while eating a vegan macrobiotic diet. This gave my body a chance to heal and built up my immune system rather than obliterating it which is what chemo does. The enzymes in the raw foods worked to repair my damaged digestive system since anyone with colon cancer has a digestive problem. Chemo will not do this.

CHEMA is all about restoring and repairing and helping the body heal itself which is what our bodies are meant to do given the proper support.

Chemo is all about killing off--the good with the bad.

Choosing either route comes with consequences and there are no guarantees. But please allow your BIL to choose with your support. Please do research (not Quackwatch--they are not on the up and up and have an agenda) about alternative ways to heal the body. There are many out there.

It sounds like your BIL is actually on the right track for healing if he has already switched to a vegan diet (which is a great way for the digestive system to repair not having to work double time on digesting animal products--they stay in the digestive track for three days where as plant-based foods move quickly). Animal products are also very acid producing and cancer likes acidic foods so removing them and focusing on balancing the pH is quite helpful for healing.

There have been success stories on this site with alternatives and I know of a few personally who, when they juiced, had their tumors either FALL OUT or die and become benign masses. One friend wrote a book about her experience with her son called Your Child Doesn't Have To Die by Leanne Sorteberg.

I hope this helps give you some hope that maybe your BIL will do fine if he chooses a different route from the "normal" American way.

Here is some suggested reading for you both:

A Cancer Battle Plan by Anne Frahm
Spontaneous Healing by Dr. Andrew Weil
Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Balch and Balch
Questioning Chemo by Dr. Ralph Moss
Healing Cancer with Nutrition by Dr. Patrick Quillin

peace, emily

ps
I just want to add that I was 39 at dx and was told that my tumor had been in there from 5-10 years so I wouldn't consider that fast growing.


peace, emily

pamness

2bhealed said:

Alternative Medicine
Hello Maddy,

I am living proof that alternatives to the typical treatments can work. I did opt to have surgery to remove my tumor since the blockage was creating intense pain. I was Stage 3 so it had moved into my lymph but had not spread to any organs.

I opted to heal from cancer using a variety of methods that in Western culture is deemed alternative.

Chemo is serious stuff that in my parents lifetime was considered quackery when they began using mustard gas poison on cancer. So I wouldn't pooh-pooh something like baking soda that alkalizes tumors and kills them off (cancer cannot live in an alkaline environment).

I understand that getting a cancer diagnosis can be a scary thing in of itself, but chemo comes with very strong repercussions some of which are:

permanent heart damage
permanent kidney damage
peripheral neuropathy
secondary cancers
chemo-induced luekemia

not to mention the rashes, mouth sores, hair loss, fatigue, diarrhea, dehydration etc etc.

What I chose to do was CHEMA which is the juice of the plant. I juiced fresh organic veggies up to 3 quarts daily while eating a vegan macrobiotic diet. This gave my body a chance to heal and built up my immune system rather than obliterating it which is what chemo does. The enzymes in the raw foods worked to repair my damaged digestive system since anyone with colon cancer has a digestive problem. Chemo will not do this.

CHEMA is all about restoring and repairing and helping the body heal itself which is what our bodies are meant to do given the proper support.

Chemo is all about killing off--the good with the bad.

Choosing either route comes with consequences and there are no guarantees. But please allow your BIL to choose with your support. Please do research (not Quackwatch--they are not on the up and up and have an agenda) about alternative ways to heal the body. There are many out there.

It sounds like your BIL is actually on the right track for healing if he has already switched to a vegan diet (which is a great way for the digestive system to repair not having to work double time on digesting animal products--they stay in the digestive track for three days where as plant-based foods move quickly). Animal products are also very acid producing and cancer likes acidic foods so removing them and focusing on balancing the pH is quite helpful for healing.

There have been success stories on this site with alternatives and I know of a few personally who, when they juiced, had their tumors either FALL OUT or die and become benign masses. One friend wrote a book about her experience with her son called Your Child Doesn't Have To Die by Leanne Sorteberg.

I hope this helps give you some hope that maybe your BIL will do fine if he chooses a different route from the "normal" American way.

Here is some suggested reading for you both:

A Cancer Battle Plan by Anne Frahm
Spontaneous Healing by Dr. Andrew Weil
Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Balch and Balch
Questioning Chemo by Dr. Ralph Moss
Healing Cancer with Nutrition by Dr. Patrick Quillin

peace, emily

How do you know your cancer wasn't removed during surgery
I was diagnosed IIIA 2 lymph nodes positive and was told that the odds that my cancer was removed surgically were between 60 and 70 percent - therefore, if this was the case, it wouldn't matter what I did afterwords. I didn't like the odds enough to forgo chemo. I also changed my diet and did whatever I could think of to help fight the cancer. I will never know - nor will you, wether the chemo or sugery or whatever cause the cancer to be gone.

I would never give advice without knowing exactly what I was advocating.

I am so happy things have worked well for you, but I think recommending your choice (without real evidence that it was the cure) is irresponsible.

I am a big fan of alternative medicine = along with appropriate information and other options.

(I know this will not be a popular response, but so be it).

I hope and believe you will continue to to well.

Pam

2bhealed

pamness said:

How do you know your cancer wasn't removed during surgery
I was diagnosed IIIA 2 lymph nodes positive and was told that the odds that my cancer was removed surgically were between 60 and 70 percent - therefore, if this was the case, it wouldn't matter what I did afterwords. I didn't like the odds enough to forgo chemo. I also changed my diet and did whatever I could think of to help fight the cancer. I will never know - nor will you, wether the chemo or sugery or whatever cause the cancer to be gone.

I would never give advice without knowing exactly what I was advocating.

I am so happy things have worked well for you, but I think recommending your choice (without real evidence that it was the cure) is irresponsible.

I am a big fan of alternative medicine = along with appropriate information and other options.

(I know this will not be a popular response, but so be it).

I hope and believe you will continue to to well.

Pam

Hi Pam,
Where in my reply
Hi Pam,

Where in my reply was I recommending my choice? I was sharing what I did and asked Maddy to do her own research while supporting her BIL's choices.

I did recommend some books. One can deduct one's own conclusions from the facts given.

My surgery was successful in removing the cancerous tumor. My diet and lifestyle have been successful in keeping cancer from recurring so far. I have no guarantee that I will remain cancer free for life. No one does. Regardless of what course of action one chooses.

I wanted to give Maddy a personal perspective from someone who researched her options and chose to heal from cancer (I did not say "cure" my cancer) using alternatives.

I completely disagree that there was any irresponsibility on my part by sharing my personal experiences and research.

Not one member of my family has survived chemo nor been cured of their cancer; and during the almost 7 years I have been on this site, I have lost way too many friends I met here to not know that chemo is rough and dangerous stuff.

To give Maddy encouragement to support her BIL's choices is what we do on here.

So what advice did I give that I didn't exactly know what I was advocating. I'm a bit perplexed at that accusation.

peace, emily

brn2ride

2bhealed said:

Hi Pam,
Where in my reply
Hi Pam,

Where in my reply was I recommending my choice? I was sharing what I did and asked Maddy to do her own research while supporting her BIL's choices.

I did recommend some books. One can deduct one's own conclusions from the facts given.

My surgery was successful in removing the cancerous tumor. My diet and lifestyle have been successful in keeping cancer from recurring so far. I have no guarantee that I will remain cancer free for life. No one does. Regardless of what course of action one chooses.

I wanted to give Maddy a personal perspective from someone who researched her options and chose to heal from cancer (I did not say "cure" my cancer) using alternatives.

I completely disagree that there was any irresponsibility on my part by sharing my personal experiences and research.

Not one member of my family has survived chemo nor been cured of their cancer; and during the almost 7 years I have been on this site, I have lost way too many friends I met here to not know that chemo is rough and dangerous stuff.

To give Maddy encouragement to support her BIL's choices is what we do on here.

So what advice did I give that I didn't exactly know what I was advocating. I'm a bit perplexed at that accusation.

peace, emily

I too had a tumor removed and then opted for alternative ways
I too had a tumor removed and then opted for alternative treatment, which consists of diet changes and exercise. If I had listened to conventional medical advice I would not have a sphincter or rectum right now. i guess only time will tell if I made the right decision to decline additional surgery but for me it was the right choice. I was diagnosed with stage II rectal cancer at 46 years of age. The surgeon who performed the colonoscopy and then a month later the surgery to remove the tumor was, to say the least, very abrasive. I wasn't given much information and thought i would be dead by now after talking with her. I didn't even know what stage I had until I got my medical records and found a doctor that would explain them to me. One of the surgeons I spoke with told me there was a 30% chance that not all of the cancer was removed with the first surgery. To me that said there was a 70% chance that it was all removed but after doing more research it was pointed out to me that if the surgeon says 30% it is more like 10% or a 90% chance I was cancer free after the tumor removal. No matter what adopting a healthier lifestyle can't hurt.
I am grateful that there were several alternative treatment folks on this site that told me about the other options out there.

StacyGleaso

Support
Support your brother-in-law the best you could.

Best wishes that the outcome is positive.