CEA question

midnte0708

I dont know much about CEA counts other than the lower the better. My dad got good news today. When he was diagnosed in August 2005 with colon cancer and mets to the liver his cea was 170. Now CEA is 76. (which I think is still bad though ?)
It's a good sign I guess that the chemo (folfiri + avastin) is working.
My question is how low should a CEA be and how likely will it keep going down or can it rise up as fast as it came down? At what point would they stop chemo ? Also his cat scan for liver showed "no change" recently and a few months ago. Is it common to have no visible change on the scan and a CEA dropping at the same time.
Any info will be appreciated.
Sue

spongebob

Sue -

I think CEA levels are one of the great mysteries of life - right up there with the Tooth Fairy and Ted Kopel's hair.

Many of us had a "normal" CEA (below 5) when we were fully involved with cancer. Other people I know have an elevated CEA but no cancer (but they smoke... KANGA!) So that's the quandry about CEA.

What most doctors look at is a change in CEA level... up=bad, down=good. I'd hazard a non-scientific guess and say that in your case your CEA level is pretty good. They're sort of like those home pregnancy tests; a good diagnostic tool, but you never really seem to know for absolute sure (pink or blue... what about mauve?)

Confused yet? Good - now you're really a Semi-Colon!

Sounds like you're doing well - keep her so and stay well!

Cheers

- SpongeBob

CAMaura

HI Sue - I would call in an expert opinion....one of your docs. My gastro is wonderful at giving me info about CEAs (unfortunately because he deals with so many mets to the liver). It seams to vary person to person; I felt lucky that my own CEA reacted predictably to tumor removal, but was told that another tumor in my colon - with or without its own mets to other organs - might not reapeat the predictability (which sort of sucks). Again, meet with your docs and ask, ask, ask. If one doesn't give a reasonable answer, ask another on your list. I have a round table going and I am happy for it; what one doc cannot answer another will. The mix of opinions pieces things together for me. All the best to you - Maura

rthornton

spongebob said:

Sue -

I think CEA levels are one of the great mysteries of life - right up there with the Tooth Fairy and Ted Kopel's hair.

Many of us had a "normal" CEA (below 5) when we were fully involved with cancer. Other people I know have an elevated CEA but no cancer (but they smoke... KANGA!) So that's the quandry about CEA.

What most doctors look at is a change in CEA level... up=bad, down=good. I'd hazard a non-scientific guess and say that in your case your CEA level is pretty good. They're sort of like those home pregnancy tests; a good diagnostic tool, but you never really seem to know for absolute sure (pink or blue... what about mauve?)

Confused yet? Good - now you're really a Semi-Colon!

Sounds like you're doing well - keep her so and stay well!

Cheers

- SpongeBob

My understanding is that CEA is not a reliable diagnostic tool but rather a useful part of a larger picture. The scans are what give the good info in diagnosis. CEA, I think it stands for carcino embryonic antigen or something like that, is a chemical secreted by colon cancer and so a high count would seem to suggest a lot of cancer and a low count very little cancer, etc. But I have heard of people having high CEA with no cancer, low CEA with a lot of cancer ... and even disparate CEA counts taken on the same day! Normal is supposedly 0 - 3, or 0 - 5 for smokers (and what about former smokers like me?).

I started with a CEA of 55 and as of last Wednesday it is 2.2. Spongebob is right, I think. CEA is kind of mysterious.

Rodney

kangatoo

CAMaura said:

HI Sue - I would call in an expert opinion....one of your docs. My gastro is wonderful at giving me info about CEAs (unfortunately because he deals with so many mets to the liver). It seams to vary person to person; I felt lucky that my own CEA reacted predictably to tumor removal, but was told that another tumor in my colon - with or without its own mets to other organs - might not reapeat the predictability (which sort of sucks). Again, meet with your docs and ask, ask, ask. If one doesn't give a reasonable answer, ask another on your list. I have a round table going and I am happy for it; what one doc cannot answer another will. The mix of opinions pieces things together for me. All the best to you - Maura

Ditto n then some....with the previous answers Sue. I have never really found out if CEA testing is the same world wide, ie; using the same scale. Here in OZ my onc. said that any numbers above 7 (for me) is to be considered worth looking into. I never knew my numbers at dx but during chemo the readings were down to around 4 and then reduced to 3. Progressive readings hovered between 2 and 5. As Bob said(yah had tah tell 'em didn't yah Bob!) ol Kanga smokes and that plays havoc with readings and generally makes the CEA higher. My onc. also said that CEA is only an "indicator" and the reliability of readings is taken somewhat tongue in cheek.AND....he said each patient is different in very much the same way that chemo effects us all differently, even tho 2 people may be on the same course of chemo. Having said that he also said that a fairly large increase suddenly or over a short period would certainly make him want to investigate further.
Ross and Jen

Betsydoglover

Sue - as others have said, CEA is a mystery. And not especially useful in all cases. I am one of those for whom CEA is utterly useless. After my colon surgery - which confirmed a liver met - and before any chemo at all, my CEA tested at 0.5! About as low as it could get and yet we KNEW I had cancer. So, consider it, please, as one data point only and don't worry that any specific CEA number can definitively tell you anything.

Best wishes, Betsy