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  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member
    edited December 2017 #22

    Huh ?

    I do not recall mentioning "choosing to have cancer." I wrote that no sane or healthy individual could ever desire such a thing. 

    My address regarded how one most profitiably deals with the hand once it is delt to you....   Some reactions build upon the misfortune, others just plod through, Eeyore-style, lamenting "woe is me."

    You misunderstood

    I was referring to a quote from another member.

     

  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member
    po18guy said:

    On hold???

    Rather, instead of bering placed "on hold", your life has taken on a new direction, a new depth, a new meaning. All of a sudden, each day is a little more precious. Tomorrow cannot be taken for granted. You are going places and meeting people that you never would have otherwise. Your life has just expanded. Because all of this does not fit into your plans does not make it bad. And, you do not even have cancer.

    Huh? Well, the healthy way of thinking about this is: You do not have cancer until a pathology report says you have cancer." Doctor's "concern" and personal worries do not determine reality. They are abstracts. A diagnosis is real - but again, you have been strengthened by the downs of life so that you are strong enough to handle a poor diagnosis, or a good one.

    Life in no way stops. It changes direction, quality, persepctive, outlook, but it does not stop. Have a read: https://csn.cancer.org/node/309309

    If I had to go back 9 years and choose health or cancer, I would take the cancer. Really.

    Wow

    You would choose cancer over health? I respect your opinion but don’t relate to it in any way. We can be different and still respect each other’s views. I find your story fascinating.

  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member

    Slightly off

    Shady, your views are those of most Americans and most westernized people throughout the world.

    However, belief in meritorious suffering or the notion that suffering makes one better is ancient, and was once pervasive throughout the world.  And this is true in this life, regardless of the afterlife notions of various religions and philosophies.

    Buddhism, which denies any afterlife at all, teaches that all human existence is suffering (Sanskrit, dukkha), to be overcome only through right understanding and will.  'Nirvana' (Pali: nibbana "to extinguish") is most often described as a candle buring out. It is achieved only after all self will and desire is eliminated.

    Judaism and Christianity historically have always understood suffering to improve character and the nature of life, in this world, and of course in the afterlife also.

    Various secular philosophies, such as Roman Stocism and some Greeks (neoplatonic writers, for instance) have all viewed life as a harsh struggle, and how one views that struggle are at their core.

    So the notion of improvement through suffering is not even usually otherworldly, and very often is not even religious, but derived from secular writers.

    Of course, no sane, balanced inidividual would ever seek or desire suffering.  It is when it comes uninvited that our reaction to it matters.

    I know all of this is too esoteric and odd for most current readers, who communicate via emojis and Instagram only.  The smart phone has mostly eradicated reading from current America.  Historians are labelling our age 'The New Barbarism.'   Soon, we will only communicate via grunts and clubs.

     

    Kelly Clarkson's hit Stronger is a modern, pop music take on these notions.

     

     

    Not really criticisizing

    Philosophy aside, I have trouble understanding anything noble about choosing to have cancer. The best of good fortune to you and yours.

  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member
    Evarista said:

    If I can butt in...

    ...without being asked:  Max, I think Shady hit the wrong "Reply" link and intended to being speaking to someone else or in general terms.  Those little "Reply" links can be confusing, in my opinion.  No hard feelings between two good people I hope?

    Not me

    certainly no bad feelings from me.

  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member

    No

    Welcome to you Marie.  I hope this site assists you in your journey.

    One does not "put their life on hold" while fighting cancer, quite the opposite.  You mentioned "control freak" tendencies. Lose those immediately, since your time of being able to micromanage is over.  Only sickness teaches a wise person the meaning of heath.

    I suspect that your biopsy will come back positive. That is a massive node, with few other explanations, but only the pathology report will know for certain (there are other explanations, just very improbable).  My diagnosis was similiar: my whole heart cavity was full of huge nodes, mimicing unstable angina.  My biopsy node was from my (L) axillary, not a lot smaller than the node you described.  Except that I had them everywhere, from the lower neck into the pelvic region, and across both sides.  Doc said wrapped all around the length of the escophagus, all around the superior vena cava, all over the spleen, inside the lungs.  A highly experienced surgeon first showed me my CT.  I knew nothing aobut how to view a CT, and asked naively, "Is it bad ?"  He lost control momentarily and yelled "Look at it ! It's all over"  He addedd that all it could be was Lymphoma, or end-stage AIDS. He said that "it looks like a person about to die of AIDS."  Since I was at no risk for AIDS, that was ruled out.

    I can remember when in the middle of chemo (around maybe month 3), lying in bed, too weak to speak on a telephone.  Once I had to pant like a dog to get oxygen, was about to asphyxiate most likely.   It was some of the most intensive life I ever lived.  (I later discoved that I had developed fibrosis, lung toxicity, and asthma).

    A calm, rational analysis of your treatment choices and what in life most matters are the most productive and healthy ways to view any serious disease.  Anger or dread will drain your thoughts and are caustic.

    Most people relate to cancer the same way they relate to any other challange, which makes sense of course.  Many here have benefitted from Yoga or other practices, any relaxation activity that you enjoy will be of benefit to you. Tai chi is popular today, and seems relatively easy to use. I have not myself, but again, many here have gone to tai chi to great benefit -- even the Aflac duck.

    max

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay5aUabPnQU

    True

    A good single malt helps some people. 

  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member
    edited December 2017 #27

    "Bitter joke"

    The best secular, academic minds who have studied the meaning of life have all agreed with your statement here, Po.  The greatest philosopher of the 20th century, the German Martin Heidegger, concluded that life for persons who believe nothing (like himself) consists of "care and dread, and projects levelled into nothingness by death."  Heidegger's book Being and Time properly translates 'care and dread' as Sorge und Angst.  It is from this book that the term "Angst" has become hugely popular in contemporary English.

    Jean-Paul Sartre, the Frenchman who taught at Sorbonne concluded that humanity is a sort of mass nausea, that the earth vomits out in death (see his international best-seller entitled Nausea).  Sartre famously once wrote that "the only question worth studying in philosophy is whether to commit sucide, and when."  Nietzsche wrote that childbirth represented "new filth entering the earth."

    I took my daughter to a music fest in Atlanta a few years ago.  One guy had on a "Death Metal" shirt that read "Life....Death....Nothing."  Death Metal is a popular subgenre that praises death, suicide, murder, nihilism, and the meaninglessness of life.  Lyrics praise rape and all form of violence and perversity.

    Suicide is epidemic throughout western societies today.  Herion addiction now kills ten of thousands a year in the US.  Children are overrun with all variety of mental health issues that did not even exist when I was a kid.  I went to high school in the mid 70s, and never heard of or knew anyone with anything called "autism," and didn't know of anyone with symptoms similiar to what is called autism.  There was no such thing as ADHD in my time, just kids would not behave. When I began teaching high school in 1999, what most amazed me was the stream of parents coming by to see me to explain the "conditions" their kids had, and why their behavior was not their fault, and the list of drugs they had to take throughout the school day.  The kids ate Ritalin the way we ate M&Ms in my day.

    Assisted suicide is taking hold everywhere, and was even approved in Italy this week.  Japan has public parks set aside mostly for adults to committ suicide in.  I will document any and all of this with news articles from the mainstream press to anyone who requests such via the email service here.

    We live in a culture of death and meaninglessness.  A people who believe nothing will fall for anything.

    Many people here sign their commentary as "Their Humble Opinion"  or "Just one person's opinion."  What I wrote above is in fact NOT my opinion, but a summation of what is being taught to our kids throughout western culture in all of the best universities. It represents the opinions of the press and even govenment policies in many places.  If it were "my humble opinion," I would not have ever shared it.

    .

    I have traveled to 64 countries in my life and experienced all the major (and some minor) religions up close so my opinions come from experience, not “book learning”. One thing I learned is that people will always disagree on religion And the topic is best avoided. I try to make comments based on practicality. Things get confused when we fail to maintain focus. In practical terms I can see no reason to choose cancer over heallth. While saying that I agree that overcoming adversity builds character in most but not all people. At the same time I realize none of us can choose to have or not have cancer. Its just a fact and we all respond differently. My father (single malt was his solution) told me about a fierce battle he was in. He said there were wounded who cussed and swore as as others prayed and cried for their mothers. I doubt you could tell the difference by reading their names off some wall. As I say, whatever works.

  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member
    Personally, no

    I cannot see having lymphoma as providing a benefit in any way. fighting against and hopefully overcoming lymphoma, or any adversity thrust upon us by life, definitely builds character. However choosing adversity to prove oneself does not compute with me. Still, thats “just one opinion”.

  • po18guy
    po18guy Member Posts: 1,261 Member

    "Bitter joke"

    The best secular, academic minds who have studied the meaning of life have all agreed with your statement here, Po.  The greatest philosopher of the 20th century, the German Martin Heidegger, concluded that life for persons who believe nothing (like himself) consists of "care and dread, and projects levelled into nothingness by death."  Heidegger's book Being and Time properly translates 'care and dread' as Sorge und Angst.  It is from this book that the term "Angst" has become hugely popular in contemporary English.

    Jean-Paul Sartre, the Frenchman who taught at Sorbonne concluded that humanity is a sort of mass nausea, that the earth vomits out in death (see his international best-seller entitled Nausea).  Sartre famously once wrote that "the only question worth studying in philosophy is whether to commit sucide, and when."  Nietzsche wrote that childbirth represented "new filth entering the earth."

    I took my daughter to a music fest in Atlanta a few years ago.  One guy had on a "Death Metal" shirt that read "Life....Death....Nothing."  Death Metal is a popular subgenre that praises death, suicide, murder, nihilism, and the meaninglessness of life.  Lyrics praise rape and all form of violence and perversity.

    Suicide is epidemic throughout western societies today.  Herion addiction now kills ten of thousands a year in the US.  Children are overrun with all variety of mental health issues that did not even exist when I was a kid.  I went to high school in the mid 70s, and never heard of or knew anyone with anything called "autism," and didn't know of anyone with symptoms similiar to what is called autism.  There was no such thing as ADHD in my time, just kids would not behave. When I began teaching high school in 1999, what most amazed me was the stream of parents coming by to see me to explain the "conditions" their kids had, and why their behavior was not their fault, and the list of drugs they had to take throughout the school day.  The kids ate Ritalin the way we ate M&Ms in my day.

    Assisted suicide is taking hold everywhere, and was even approved in Italy this week.  Japan has public parks set aside mostly for adults to committ suicide in.  I will document any and all of this with news articles from the mainstream press to anyone who requests such via the email service here.

    We live in a culture of death and meaninglessness.  A people who believe nothing will fall for anything.

    Many people here sign their commentary as "Their Humble Opinion"  or "Just one person's opinion."  What I wrote above is in fact NOT my opinion, but a summation of what is being taught to our kids throughout western culture in all of the best universities. It represents the opinions of the press and even govenment policies in many places.  If it were "my humble opinion," I would not have ever shared it.

    .

    Anxiety is the epidemic of our age

    It strikes those most who believe in one of two things:

    1. Nothing

    2. Everything

    Each and every culture and society on earth has a mechanism, a belief system, a philosophy, a world view, a religion, which embraces the universal human experience of suffering and death. I advise those suffering to examine those various mechanisms to see if one is a good "fit." If one does not provide comfort or relief, try another! What is there to lose, except anxiety and despondency?

  • po18guy
    po18guy Member Posts: 1,261 Member

    Hi All,

    Shady I agree with you totally, having cancer is not fun and it is not what we should have in order to grow and become better persons and value every day of our life. Cancer is a complex disease. We got cancer because we did something wrong with our diet, with our thinking, working too much, stressing to much, eating junk food ,drinking and smoking and so on... you all know what I am talking about. Cancer is a result of all this and it has deep roots it is a metabolic disease. We are doing chemo and radiation but we are not changing our life and food and sleep and all the things that we did before we cannot have a different outcome we will get cancer again. This is my opinion. For me cancer was an eye opener of what I did wrong before and now I am trying to correct. I am sorry if I upset anyone it is not my purpose here it is just my opinion. 

    Good luck you all, 

    Dana

    Lifetime vegetarians get cancer. Each and every human body that has ever lived has produced cancer cells - that is why we have an immune system! I never smoked or drank, ate healthily, was active and still got cancer. Cancer is not our "Fault"! Where on earth did that thought come from? Is it fun? No! But, neither is life fun if you add up all the negatives and focus solely on them. We are not wired that way. We are not simply cosmic accidents or experients.

    Rather, we take the hand of cards that we are dealt and play the best round of poker that we are able to. We have help in this. I have the great advantage of a certain world view, of being able to look back on what has happened, and the places it has taken me, the experiences that I have had and the people I have come to know. My horizon has only expanded. Is that so bad? I encourage cancer patients and caregivers. Is that lying to them? Knowing what I know now, I would do it again.

    Cancer is simply a part of many lives. To go around repeating "cancer sucks" to me means that life sucks. Really? You stopped loving others and they stopped loving you? The only life that sucks is one that is loveless.

    Rather, love is proved during such times. It is deepened and made permenent.

  • po18guy
    po18guy Member Posts: 1,261 Member
    Not telling anyone...

    ...what to believe. Only attempting to explain the source of my perspective. One may dispassionately read and evaluate the various responses and decide as an adult. 

  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member
    edited December 2017 #32
    po18guy said:

    Lifetime vegetarians get cancer. Each and every human body that has ever lived has produced cancer cells - that is why we have an immune system! I never smoked or drank, ate healthily, was active and still got cancer. Cancer is not our "Fault"! Where on earth did that thought come from? Is it fun? No! But, neither is life fun if you add up all the negatives and focus solely on them. We are not wired that way. We are not simply cosmic accidents or experients.

    Rather, we take the hand of cards that we are dealt and play the best round of poker that we are able to. We have help in this. I have the great advantage of a certain world view, of being able to look back on what has happened, and the places it has taken me, the experiences that I have had and the people I have come to know. My horizon has only expanded. Is that so bad? I encourage cancer patients and caregivers. Is that lying to them? Knowing what I know now, I would do it again.

    Cancer is simply a part of many lives. To go around repeating "cancer sucks" to me means that life sucks. Really? You stopped loving others and they stopped loving you? The only life that sucks is one that is loveless.

    Rather, love is proved during such times. It is deepened and made permenent.

    Anger

    Thanks for correcting the spelling.

  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member
    po18guy said:

    Not telling anyone...

    ...what to believe. Only attempting to explain the source of my perspective. One may dispassionately read and evaluate the various responses and decide as an adult. 

    Glad we have your ...

    Permission to do that. Thank you.

  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member
    po18guy said:

    Anxiety is the epidemic of our age

    It strikes those most who believe in one of two things:

    1. Nothing

    2. Everything

    Each and every culture and society on earth has a mechanism, a belief system, a philosophy, a world view, a religion, which embraces the universal human experience of suffering and death. I advise those suffering to examine those various mechanisms to see if one is a good "fit." If one does not provide comfort or relief, try another! What is there to lose, except anxiety and despondency?

    Kinda agree

    Except in some cultures people want to die but few want to suffer by choosing illness over health. As far as flitting about like a butterfly most religions encourage a set of core values which adherents stick with through thick and thin. In Catholicism thats how some saints come to be, maintaining faith in adversity, refusing to change views even to torture and death. Flitting about to different views based on personal comfort is what secularists do. In any case I am if not secular, certainly non-sectarian, so go for it.  Good luck and cheers.

  • Evarista
    Evarista Member Posts: 325 Member
    Thinking of you

    Hey Annie, just wanted to say that we haven't forgotten you!  Guessing that you'll get your biopsy results sometime this week (if you haven't already).  Cross-fingers and hoping that there is no bad news.  Let us know if we can help.

  • ShadyGuy
    ShadyGuy Member Posts: 756 Member
    po18guy said:

    On hold???

    Rather, instead of bering placed "on hold", your life has taken on a new direction, a new depth, a new meaning. All of a sudden, each day is a little more precious. Tomorrow cannot be taken for granted. You are going places and meeting people that you never would have otherwise. Your life has just expanded. Because all of this does not fit into your plans does not make it bad. And, you do not even have cancer.

    Huh? Well, the healthy way of thinking about this is: You do not have cancer until a pathology report says you have cancer." Doctor's "concern" and personal worries do not determine reality. They are abstracts. A diagnosis is real - but again, you have been strengthened by the downs of life so that you are strong enough to handle a poor diagnosis, or a good one.

    Life in no way stops. It changes direction, quality, persepctive, outlook, but it does not stop. Have a read: https://csn.cancer.org/node/309309

    If I had to go back 9 years and choose health or cancer, I would take the cancer. Really.

    This says it all

    “If I had to go back 9 years and choose health or cancer, I would take the cancer. really”

    Really? Then cancer is a blessing? Do you want it for your children?