permanent liver damage from chemo, irinotecan may lead to increased mortality after liver surgery UP

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Comments

  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    Erinb said:

    Thanks for the info.
    Erin

    Thanks for the info.
    Erin

    thanks erin
    hugs
    pete
  • maglets
    maglets Member Posts: 2,576
    maglets said:

    sorry
    oh I'm sorry...really I try not to be combative

    I feel a little protective about younger hurting people..

    doing chemo ...trying to get on..it is all so hard

    sure this is a forum for info...no prob...let's not fight......

    post whatever

    mags

    ok
    ok here's the deal....i cannot even believe that anything I said would raise an eye

    first I am a mother...second a teacher....therefore i just want to protect those in pain...johnny and I went through our first round together and I am just being protective...

    I really really do not seek to argue here...but sometimes stats maybe are not so helpful...just sayin...

    as I said post what you will....but hold on to others going through chemo also...

    mags
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    how to minimise folfox liver damage with adomet
    how to minimise folfox liver damage with adomet

    game set and match to good quality research and patience

    another food supplement that our doctors have not advised about.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Adenosyl_methionine

    this post has been flagged, if it gets deleted so does one medically approved treatment to minimise liver damage while on folfox. see the trial data.

    its too late for my liver my folfox is finished.

    consider the livers saved by this thread, adomet means less drop off folfox and goto more dangerous chemos. just think about it.

    cheers all

    pete

    The role of S-adenosyl methionine in preventing FOLFOX-induced liver toxicity: a retrospective analysis in patients affected by resected colorectal cancer treated with adjuvant FOLFOX regimen.
    Vincenzi B, Santini D, Frezza AM, Berti P, Vespasiani U, Picardi A, Tonini G.
    SourceUniversity Campus Bio-Medico, Medical Oncology , Via Alvaro del Portillo 200, 00128 Rome , Italy +39 06 225411123 ; +39 06 225411208 ; [email protected].

    Abstract
    Background: Hepatic toxicity is often related to chemotherapy agent administration, and it represents one of the principal causes of dose reduction and chemotherapy delays or discontinuation. S-Adenosyl methionine (AdoMet) supplementation is effective in the treatment of a variety of liver injuries, but it has never been evaluated in the prevention of chemotherapy-induced liver damage. Patients and methods: A total of 105 patients affected by resected colorectal cancer (CRC) were enrolled. Forty-five were treated with FOLFOX IV adjuvant regimen without administering AdoMet, 60 were treated with the same regimen plus supplementation with AdoMet. Liver enzyme levels were assessed before starting the treatment and every therapy cycle. Liver toxicity, chemotherapy course delays, discontinuations and dose reductions due to liver toxicity were recorded. Results: Aspartate aminotransferase (AST) (p < 0.001), alanine transaminase (ALT) (p = 0.003), bilirubin (p = 0.04) and gamma-glutamyltransferase (γ-GT) (p = 0.002) median level at the end of adjuvant therapy were significantly lower in patients treated with Adome. Patients supplemented with AdoMet experimented a lower grade of liver toxicity (p = 0.002) and had a reduced need of course delay (p < 0.0001) and dose reduction (p = 0.031). Conclusions: The results of our study demonstrate a protective effect of AdoMet supplementation in patients affected by resected CRC treated with FOLFOX IV adjuvant regimen.

    PMID:21406026[PubMed - in process]
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    Buckwirth said:

    I still
    like the idea of just deleting the thread. Another could be started that was more appropriate.

    Like all good families we spat sometimes, and get on each others nerves. And like all good families, we still love one another.

    Thanks for changing the title Pete, and I hope you don't ever join the metastatic club.

    thanks blake I hope I don't join as well
    This discussion has been confronting than I imagined and went off in a direction I did not anticipate.

    I hoped for a detailed discussion of liver enzymes and alt ast ggt etc etc. people's real liver experiences in the aftermarth of chemo.

    All the replies I value.

    I guess even talking about the liver damage is too much for some of us to discuss. Obviously I was searching for clues, suggestions to improve our treatments.

    But our posts are like children, we create them, bring them up and they go on their own way.

    I did not fully appreciate what stage4 meant with regard to permanent liver damage until this thread. I am more grateful I don't have it. I have more empathy for those that do.

    I imagine many stage3 would be like myself, our onc's don't tell us what really may lie ahead.

    We have such a wide range of opinions and experience and thats our real strength.

    We have to be able to peacfully tell our stories and ask for help.

    Thats why I added the context in detail.

    hugs,

    Pete
  • Nana b
    Nana b Member Posts: 3,030

    how to minimise folfox liver damage with adomet
    how to minimise folfox liver damage with adomet

    game set and match to good quality research and patience

    another food supplement that our doctors have not advised about.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Adenosyl_methionine

    this post has been flagged, if it gets deleted so does one medically approved treatment to minimise liver damage while on folfox. see the trial data.

    its too late for my liver my folfox is finished.

    consider the livers saved by this thread, adomet means less drop off folfox and goto more dangerous chemos. just think about it.

    cheers all

    pete

    The role of S-adenosyl methionine in preventing FOLFOX-induced liver toxicity: a retrospective analysis in patients affected by resected colorectal cancer treated with adjuvant FOLFOX regimen.
    Vincenzi B, Santini D, Frezza AM, Berti P, Vespasiani U, Picardi A, Tonini G.
    SourceUniversity Campus Bio-Medico, Medical Oncology , Via Alvaro del Portillo 200, 00128 Rome , Italy +39 06 225411123 ; +39 06 225411208 ; [email protected]

    Abstract
    Background: Hepatic toxicity is often related to chemotherapy agent administration, and it represents one of the principal causes of dose reduction and chemotherapy delays or discontinuation. S-Adenosyl methionine (AdoMet) supplementation is effective in the treatment of a variety of liver injuries, but it has never been evaluated in the prevention of chemotherapy-induced liver damage. Patients and methods: A total of 105 patients affected by resected colorectal cancer (CRC) were enrolled. Forty-five were treated with FOLFOX IV adjuvant regimen without administering AdoMet, 60 were treated with the same regimen plus supplementation with AdoMet. Liver enzyme levels were assessed before starting the treatment and every therapy cycle. Liver toxicity, chemotherapy course delays, discontinuations and dose reductions due to liver toxicity were recorded. Results: Aspartate aminotransferase (AST) (p < 0.001), alanine transaminase (ALT) (p = 0.003), bilirubin (p = 0.04) and gamma-glutamyltransferase (γ-GT) (p = 0.002) median level at the end of adjuvant therapy were significantly lower in patients treated with Adome. Patients supplemented with AdoMet experimented a lower grade of liver toxicity (p = 0.002) and had a reduced need of course delay (p < 0.0001) and dose reduction (p = 0.031). Conclusions: The results of our study demonstrate a protective effect of AdoMet supplementation in patients affected by resected CRC treated with FOLFOX IV adjuvant regimen.

    PMID:21406026[PubMed - in process]

    I didn't read all these
    I didn't read all these posts, but I am stage !V and a big girl. Nothing you can say frightens me. I am living each day as though I am healthy and if death knocks on my door, well so be it! It is what it is. Smiles and Laughter....Raquel


    Thanks for all the information, it's good to know....knowledge is good.
  • Kenny H.
    Kenny H. Member Posts: 502

    how to minimise folfox liver damage with adomet
    how to minimise folfox liver damage with adomet

    game set and match to good quality research and patience

    another food supplement that our doctors have not advised about.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Adenosyl_methionine

    this post has been flagged, if it gets deleted so does one medically approved treatment to minimise liver damage while on folfox. see the trial data.

    its too late for my liver my folfox is finished.

    consider the livers saved by this thread, adomet means less drop off folfox and goto more dangerous chemos. just think about it.

    cheers all

    pete

    The role of S-adenosyl methionine in preventing FOLFOX-induced liver toxicity: a retrospective analysis in patients affected by resected colorectal cancer treated with adjuvant FOLFOX regimen.
    Vincenzi B, Santini D, Frezza AM, Berti P, Vespasiani U, Picardi A, Tonini G.
    SourceUniversity Campus Bio-Medico, Medical Oncology , Via Alvaro del Portillo 200, 00128 Rome , Italy +39 06 225411123 ; +39 06 225411208 ; [email protected]

    Abstract
    Background: Hepatic toxicity is often related to chemotherapy agent administration, and it represents one of the principal causes of dose reduction and chemotherapy delays or discontinuation. S-Adenosyl methionine (AdoMet) supplementation is effective in the treatment of a variety of liver injuries, but it has never been evaluated in the prevention of chemotherapy-induced liver damage. Patients and methods: A total of 105 patients affected by resected colorectal cancer (CRC) were enrolled. Forty-five were treated with FOLFOX IV adjuvant regimen without administering AdoMet, 60 were treated with the same regimen plus supplementation with AdoMet. Liver enzyme levels were assessed before starting the treatment and every therapy cycle. Liver toxicity, chemotherapy course delays, discontinuations and dose reductions due to liver toxicity were recorded. Results: Aspartate aminotransferase (AST) (p < 0.001), alanine transaminase (ALT) (p = 0.003), bilirubin (p = 0.04) and gamma-glutamyltransferase (γ-GT) (p = 0.002) median level at the end of adjuvant therapy were significantly lower in patients treated with Adome. Patients supplemented with AdoMet experimented a lower grade of liver toxicity (p = 0.002) and had a reduced need of course delay (p < 0.0001) and dose reduction (p = 0.031). Conclusions: The results of our study demonstrate a protective effect of AdoMet supplementation in patients affected by resected CRC treated with FOLFOX IV adjuvant regimen.

    PMID:21406026[PubMed - in process]

    Thanks for the info posted
    Thanks for the info posted on this. My liver enzymes count went bad also (after 12th rd) hoping goes back down in a couple months. Had no idea about some of the possible ways to counter-act it.
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    Kenny H. said:

    Thanks for the info posted
    Thanks for the info posted on this. My liver enzymes count went bad also (after 12th rd) hoping goes back down in a couple months. Had no idea about some of the possible ways to counter-act it.

    thanks kenny
    hi kenny,

    i am starting adomet tomorrow, will let you know the results.

    would you mind posting or pming your liver numbers and i'll send you mine.

    cheers,
    pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    Nana b said:

    I didn't read all these
    I didn't read all these posts, but I am stage !V and a big girl. Nothing you can say frightens me. I am living each day as though I am healthy and if death knocks on my door, well so be it! It is what it is. Smiles and Laughter....Raquel


    Thanks for all the information, it's good to know....knowledge is good.

    thanks raquel
    hi raquel,

    i have to work on my expression, sometimes i am to blunt, or the meaning gets lost.
    but the studies are cut and pasted and really speak for themselves.

    hugs,
    pete
  • janie1
    janie1 Member Posts: 753

    thanks kenny
    hi kenny,

    i am starting adomet tomorrow, will let you know the results.

    would you mind posting or pming your liver numbers and i'll send you mine.

    cheers,
    pete

    milk thistle
    You've been taking milk histle since dx. Your liver enzymnes are now elevated. Will you continue to take milk thistle?
  • Kenny H.
    Kenny H. Member Posts: 502

    thanks kenny
    hi kenny,

    i am starting adomet tomorrow, will let you know the results.

    would you mind posting or pming your liver numbers and i'll send you mine.

    cheers,
    pete

    I didnt get the exact count,
    I didnt get the exact count, just told me was way up. Think said from a 49 to 70 (does that sound right?)Dont have the report eiother. My Onc just reads a bunch of numbers off.
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624

    thanks raquel
    hi raquel,

    i have to work on my expression, sometimes i am to blunt, or the meaning gets lost.
    but the studies are cut and pasted and really speak for themselves.

    hugs,
    pete

    I'll just repeat Nana
    Knowledge is good!!!
    Winter Marie
  • geotina
    geotina Member Posts: 2,111
    KathiM said:

    Yes, I was warned....
    But in that time's treatment cycle, there were very few other options.

    One of the best words of wisdom was to stay super hydrated, the day before, during, and after chemo...to flush the stuff where it didn't need to be...

    Hugs, Kathi

    (IMHO, death is the absolute LAST option, after all else has been exhausted....)

    Pete:
    Thanks for changing the title of this thread. The old one cut like a knife but I know today you meant no harm or insensitivity.

    Much of what you posted I already knew and I will agree that knowledge is key in treatment and options.

    Thanks - Tina
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    janie1 said:

    milk thistle
    You've been taking milk histle since dx. Your liver enzymnes are now elevated. Will you continue to take milk thistle?

    a really good question
    I believe the milk thistle may have helped me make my 12 folfox without missing a beat or any serious liver damage.

    i am wanting to try adomet and not sure how it works with milk thistle ?

    i will run this past my naturopath's first.

    my intention is to contine to take a liver tonic.
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    Kenny H. said:

    I didnt get the exact count,
    I didnt get the exact count, just told me was way up. Think said from a 49 to 70 (does that sound right?)Dont have the report eiother. My Onc just reads a bunch of numbers off.

    thanks kenny
    hi kenny,

    my onc have given me a copy of every blood, i did have to push them.

    it could easily be AST <40 MINE 79, ALT<40 MINE 82 OR GGT<50 MINE 185 one of the numbers.

    these almost doubled since the previous months test

    hugs,
    pete
  • plh4gail
    plh4gail Member Posts: 1,238
    I am stage 3c. I had the
    I am stage 3c. I had the tumor which remained in the colorectal area and 6 out of 12 lymph nodes removed during surgery. I am taking folfiri now with 2 more to go. This after my onc taking me off folfox after 6 treatments. I do wonder what is happening to my body. But I also know that I am in a fierce fight for my life right now for the sake of my 4 kids. I am going to do anything and everything I can to remain their mother for as long as I can. I hate the way folfiri makes me feel. I get a feeling of doom at the thought of taking it and my body feels terrible taking it. But if I do die at the hands of chemo my kids will know I did the treatment, the diet, the desire to live for me and for them.

    Gail
  • ron50
    ron50 Member Posts: 1,723 Member
    plh4gail said:

    I am stage 3c. I had the
    I am stage 3c. I had the tumor which remained in the colorectal area and 6 out of 12 lymph nodes removed during surgery. I am taking folfiri now with 2 more to go. This after my onc taking me off folfox after 6 treatments. I do wonder what is happening to my body. But I also know that I am in a fierce fight for my life right now for the sake of my 4 kids. I am going to do anything and everything I can to remain their mother for as long as I can. I hate the way folfiri makes me feel. I get a feeling of doom at the thought of taking it and my body feels terrible taking it. But if I do die at the hands of chemo my kids will know I did the treatment, the diet, the desire to live for me and for them.

    Gail

    It is a matter of perspective
    Back in 98 I asked my oncologist what the long term side effects of my chemo would be . His exact words were Ï don't know and I really can't worry about it. If we find something that kills cancer and is survivable to the patient we are obliged to use it". We had a good discussion and in the end I agreed that yes desperate situations require desperate meaures. I have suffered some pretty bad long term effects of chemo ,or so they think. BUT I have equally bad side effects from arthritis drugs ,so I guess I have a 50/50 average. BUT I am still alive and the past 13 + year has not been all bad I have Lived ,Loved,worked and played. My philosophy is to consder things before I do them but once I have reached a descision there is no regrets and I don't worry about what ifs. Worry will kill you long before what you are worried about.
    Don't get downhearted Pete and don't give up,once you get used to them ,feet taste pretty good. Just remember that some of the worlds greatest thinkers and inovators thought outside the box.
    Gail don't forget that I was an aggressive st3c with 6/13 nodes affected ,you can beat it and hang around to a granny and if you don't mind me saying you look perfectly fine to my old eyes.
    I am and always will be an accidental tourist of ca . I don't know anything special that helps me survive I just do it and try to support all those who are fighting it. We are all in the same boat please be kind to eack other,Hugs to all .Ron.
  • Sonia32
    Sonia32 Member Posts: 1,071
    ron50 said:

    It is a matter of perspective
    Back in 98 I asked my oncologist what the long term side effects of my chemo would be . His exact words were Ï don't know and I really can't worry about it. If we find something that kills cancer and is survivable to the patient we are obliged to use it". We had a good discussion and in the end I agreed that yes desperate situations require desperate meaures. I have suffered some pretty bad long term effects of chemo ,or so they think. BUT I have equally bad side effects from arthritis drugs ,so I guess I have a 50/50 average. BUT I am still alive and the past 13 + year has not been all bad I have Lived ,Loved,worked and played. My philosophy is to consder things before I do them but once I have reached a descision there is no regrets and I don't worry about what ifs. Worry will kill you long before what you are worried about.
    Don't get downhearted Pete and don't give up,once you get used to them ,feet taste pretty good. Just remember that some of the worlds greatest thinkers and inovators thought outside the box.
    Gail don't forget that I was an aggressive st3c with 6/13 nodes affected ,you can beat it and hang around to a granny and if you don't mind me saying you look perfectly fine to my old eyes.
    I am and always will be an accidental tourist of ca . I don't know anything special that helps me survive I just do it and try to support all those who are fighting it. We are all in the same boat please be kind to eack other,Hugs to all .Ron.

    Hey
    Hey Gail, Ron and Pete, I beat you both (not that's something to be proud of lol) Stage 3, 10/11 lymph nodes infected. I'm sure there are other stage threes out there, who could beat me. :-) Just trying to liven up this thread, by being annoying I suppose lol, sorry 4.20am here, slept only two hours.
  • plh4gail
    plh4gail Member Posts: 1,238
    Sonia32 said:

    Hey
    Hey Gail, Ron and Pete, I beat you both (not that's something to be proud of lol) Stage 3, 10/11 lymph nodes infected. I'm sure there are other stage threes out there, who could beat me. :-) Just trying to liven up this thread, by being annoying I suppose lol, sorry 4.20am here, slept only two hours.

    Hey Girly
    Sonia....it's late what are you doing silly?

    Gail
  • SisterSledge
    SisterSledge Member Posts: 332
    Again???
    It seems like every time I stay away from here for a few days, when I come back there's some brouhaha going on. We all need each other and I hope y'all learn to play nice :(

    Pete, I thank you for presenting information that cancer survivors can use to better their health and to make good treatment decisions for themselves. Personally, I appreciate most just these sorts of opinions and facts presented for here...the emotional support is wonderful, but gaining information is my top priority here.

    ~hugs~
    Janine
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    plh4gail said:

    I am stage 3c. I had the
    I am stage 3c. I had the tumor which remained in the colorectal area and 6 out of 12 lymph nodes removed during surgery. I am taking folfiri now with 2 more to go. This after my onc taking me off folfox after 6 treatments. I do wonder what is happening to my body. But I also know that I am in a fierce fight for my life right now for the sake of my 4 kids. I am going to do anything and everything I can to remain their mother for as long as I can. I hate the way folfiri makes me feel. I get a feeling of doom at the thought of taking it and my body feels terrible taking it. But if I do die at the hands of chemo my kids will know I did the treatment, the diet, the desire to live for me and for them.

    Gail

    it won't come to that
    the message of this post, is evasive action.

    avoid irinotecan if you can,

    avoid folfox liver damage using adomet if you can,

    its what i use as of today.

    take adomet (SAMe) on folfox to give you a better chance.
    sorry i just learned about adomet yesterday. it would have really help us on the folfox express.

    avoid conflict, hard here sometimes, but i am still smiling.

    hugs,
    pete