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Covid vaccination failure?

tgyphilly's picture
tgyphilly
Posts: 22
Joined: Jan 2020

I had my two vaccine doses.  In mid-April I read that a high percentage of lymphoma patients in treatment, or recently in treatment, are experiencing vaccine failures.  Severe B cell depletion is not a great starting point for developing antibodies I guess.   I went the next day to get a Covid antibody test, and sure enough, no antibodies.  Puke.

Anyone else in the same boat?   If so, is your doc providing guidance on an alternative prophylactic?   I know there are MABs out there that have been used as preventive mesaures, but I'm not sure how accessible they are.  My doc hasn't been all that proactive on the subject... I think onco docs just treat the cancer, and for some the risk of treatment-related infections just comes with the territory and are for the patient to try and figure out how to prevent.  

PBL
Posts: 315
Joined: Jul 2016

Antibody test after covid vaccine

it may help you in your quest for answers and assistance on vaccine response in lymphoma patients.

I had my two Pfizer shots and had a pretty strong reaction to #2 - flu-like symptoms the next day, and a full-body hives outbreak the day after that. Got tested for antibodies a couple of weeks later: positive! Now my doctor tells me that in the event a repeat dose is needed, I may need to have it done with an EpiPen at the ready Frown

lindary's picture
lindary
Posts: 709
Joined: Mar 2015

I have been in remission several years now. I had my second shot about 2 1/2 weeks ago. Made sure I was drinking lots of watter both time. For the first one my arm was sore that night. Second shot arm sore that night. The next morning I felt a little aching but wrote it off to the Yoga session I had the previous day. Later in the day I felt like my joints were doing a roll-call. First one area would be aching, then it would switch to another. I was also cold and tired. Didn't do much that day. I did take a couple of Tylenol when I went to bed and felt normal the next morning. I will be seeing my oncologist in 2 weeks so I am going to see if she will do the anti-body test.

 

ShadyGuy
Posts: 685
Joined: Jan 2017

You can get the antibody test at many Walgreens for $20 with results in <15 minutes.

https://www.walgreens.com/findcarecovidui/covid19/testing?ban=covid_vanity_testing

po18guy's picture
po18guy
Posts: 1192
Joined: Nov 2011

I am B-Cell depleted since a clinical trial 3+ years ago. I received what was ostensibly Rituxan's stronger cousin, Arzerra (Ofatumumab). Closing in on 6 years post-transplant, I have just begiun to receive the first portion of primary inocculation (baby shots). In about 6 weeks, I will be tested to determine if I developed antibodies to the first vaccines. Dr. is not terribly optimistic and I certainly do not expect much response either. So, I see it as far better to allow someone else to receive a vaccine which stands the chance of doing them some good.

The "benefit" of having a weaknened immune system is that, should we contract the Corona virus, we might not suffer the massive immune response which can flood the lungs with inflammation and place one in the intensive care unit.  

ShadyGuy
Posts: 685
Joined: Jan 2017

Good points but there is now an actual surplus of vaccines so everyone who wants it can get it - for free. No need to be concerned about depriving someone else by getting vaccinated. Br safe.

Evarista's picture
Evarista
Posts: 317
Joined: May 2017

I do hope that neither LLS or ACS mind my sharing this statement.  For those of you not familiar, some of us have enrolled in the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society's (LLS) Registry which is conducting SARS-CoV-2 antibody testing on blood cancer patients.  This study can be found on the LLS website or at ClinicalTrials.gov (ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT04794387). LLS & their partner Ciitizen issued this statement with regard to understanding antibody results:  https://www.ciitizen.com/llscovidstudyresults/

Note that for getting tested on your own at Walgreen's etc., you need an antibody test that measures the response to the Spike protein ("S") since the nucleocapsid ("N") component of the virus is not included in the current vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna, J & J). Not familiar with Walgreen's test, so do not know if it does/doesn't.  

Hope this helps.

ShadyGuy
Posts: 685
Joined: Jan 2017

The test at Walgreens is a joint effort with LabCorp . I assume, but do not know for certain, that  they use the same Roche test as Labcorp. It measures both nucleocapsid and spike. The vaccines only produce the spike antibody so if the nucleocapsid shows up in a test it means the test subject has had the actual viral infection at some point in the past.

ShadyGuy
Posts: 685
Joined: Jan 2017
ShadyGuy
Posts: 685
Joined: Jan 2017

on the monoclonal antibodies for COVID like the ones given to Trump at Bethesda? Meaningful info seems scarce. Most info I have found on the topic is anecdotal.

Monoclonal Antibodies to Prevent COVID-19: Phase 3 Clinical Trials Now Enrolling

https://scitechdaily.com/monoclonal-antibodies-to-prevent-covid-19-phase-3-clinical-trials-now-enrolling/

PBL
Posts: 315
Joined: Jul 2016

Science

Guardian

CNN

Don't know if you'll find any more accurate info on the actual course of treatment that was administered...  

ShadyGuy
Posts: 685
Joined: Jan 2017

Really wondering about it's effectiveness as a preventative and availability to non-presidents. I know theses MABs are under emergency use authorization but only for high risk people with an active infection. I have a wedding to go to in UK and plan further travel. It would be be nice to know I was protected but I will go either way.

PBL
Posts: 315
Joined: Jul 2016

I would doubt that any clinical-trial combo aiming at preventing the development of hospital-stay-grade illness in an infected individual would be delivered to anyone who
- has been fully vaccinated
- has not demonstrably been exposed to the virus
- and has a flawed immune system on top of that...

ShadyGuy
Posts: 685
Joined: Jan 2017

The likely benefits would be the same as the vaccine - immunity, either partial or full, from the virus. And yes they are looking to trial people who had either no response or less than robust response to the vaccine. The goal is to evaluate those MABs as a prophylaxis (preventative) to the disease. Big issue is no one knows exactly what level of antibodies are effective. There are ongoing trials to determine that too. This is apparently a engineered (manmade) form of the virus so no one really knows what will work.

Evarista's picture
Evarista
Posts: 317
Joined: May 2017

Shady, you might find this review in JAMA helpful:  https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2767383  Health and Human Services has this page:  https://combatcovid.hhs.gov/i-have-covid-19-now/monoclonal-antibodies-high-risk-covid-19-positive-patients?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhInF9MzY8AIVJ2xvBB2eeQNwEAAYASAAEgJ3j_D_BwE

As you probably know, the logistics of administering monoclonal antibody infusions are not something easily done at your neighborhood CVS, so broad usage remains problematic for now. 

I found the WaPo article useful and it seems to accurately summarize the points outlined in the LLS/Ciitizen statement:  https://www.ciitizen.com/llscovidstudyresults/  I have bookmarked the article to share with my family in case I need to explain why I won't be coming to the wedding this summer.  Cry

ShadyGuy
Posts: 685
Joined: Jan 2017

Thanks for the links. It would be administered same way as Rituxan, which is old hat to me.

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