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TESTOSTERONE SUPPLEMENTATION AFTER RADIATION AND FIRMAGON

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

HAD RADIATION AND FIRMAGON 5YEARS AGO .CANCER IS GONE BUT SO IS MY TESTOSTERONE .IT NEVER CAME BACK .DR RECOMMENDED TESTOS

TERONE SUPPLEMENTATION.HAS ANY BODY TRIED THIS?

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 3371
Joined: Nov 2010

Hi Artie,

I would like to know details about your present status,  PSA histology, and the reasons that took you to inquire about TRT. This subject of your thread has been discussed here before by some survivors but the experiences in taking testosterone supplements were little shared. I have exchanged opinions with PCa survivor Rakendra, who claimed to take steroids for his body building performance. You can try contacting him via the csn e-mail or follow his story in my link below. 

Taking steroids goes against the principles of the hormonal treatment which purposes involve deprivation of the testosterone by inducing castration. In fact the majority of PCa survivors also think that taking testosterone supplements may awaken the bandit back into action. In any case, there is no prove that such is true. Some specialists treating the low testosterone (urologists, endocrinologists, or sexologists) argue that low testosterone promote the initiation of the cancer. These guys prescribe testosterone products, such as patches, topical gels, and injections, to their patients in spite of knowing that they have/had PCa.

From a fewer number of trials researchers found that prostate cancer  reacts differently depending on the type of the testosterone. Cancer promotion seems to be linked more to endogenous testosterone (produced by the testis) than to exogenous testosterone (injected). There are several articles and videos on the matter. 

In your shoes I would consult a specialist before taking anything but you can try it if that improves your quality of life. 

https://csn.cancer.org/node/264453 https://csn.cancer.org/node/292304

https://csn.cancer.org/node/264909 https://csn.cancer.org/node/212885

https://vimeo.com/290595630

Best wishes 

VGama

 

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

I had 7 Gleason Had 5 radiation treatments plus 4 shots degarilix(firmagon) 79 ,Cancer is gone 5 yrs now,PSA nondectable.Testoterone 28,feeling tired.Considering Testoterone supplementaton for my health.Send me info on the articles and videos and have your friend contact me on this forum.

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

Are you at increased risk to your health of having extrely low testosterone(28)?Are you at greater risk of the prostate cancer coming back?You would thnk you would be at lower risk since as part of the treatment to get rid of the cancer they give you drugs (androgens)such as lupron and firmagon to to lower the testoterone.

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

Do you know anybody who was treated for prostate cancer and they took TRT to raise their tstosterone?

 

Clevelandguy
Posts: 693
Joined: Jun 2015

Hi Artie,

If it was me I would not risk the cancer return by starting testosterone.  Like Vasco said most people take drugs to get rid of the testosterone and thus weaken the cancer.  Don't know if you took it as a precaution but you surely don't want to awake the bandit.

just my 2c worth.........

Dave 3+4

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

I would agree but there is also a danger to your health with low testoterone.So I am in a quandry as to what to do.

lighterwood67's picture
lighterwood67
Posts: 294
Joined: Feb 2018

Whether testosterone therapy is safe for men with a history of prostate cancer is still an open question. More studies are needed to understand the connection. Would be nice if you could find some folks similar to your case and find out how they did with testosterone supplements. Good luck on your journey.

 

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

You r right on the pointSome docs say ok and even recommend taking the testoterone and other docs say its ike pouing gasoline on a fire.

SV
Posts: 137
Joined: Sep 2010

I went back on TRT five years after RP with no detectable PSA. Then, five years being back on TRT my PSA came roaring back to life going from .01 to 2.0 in eighteen months. A year ago I started two 90 shots of Lurpon with two months of Proton. Getting back to normal now but I don't know about risking TRT again.

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

Why did u go start TRT.I My testoterone is only 28 and I am tired.hoping TRT would give me better quality of life but do't want to risk cancer coming back.You said PSA came roaring back but did cancer come back.How long did it take Lupron and Proton to get your PSA to normal?Did the cancer come back and what did u do to treat it?How low was your testoterone?Where did u get the TRT?Thanks for your help.

Old Salt
Posts: 808
Joined: Aug 2014

but he explained in his (January 6) post that his prostate was removed. Hence, if his PSA came 'roaring back', it means that the cancer had metastasized.

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

Thanks Old Salt So what is one to do with Testoterone level 28?Cancer is gone but quality of life is also gone.Tired al the time.

Old Salt
Posts: 808
Joined: Aug 2014

It's really up to you. The pros and cons are summarized in earlier posts in this thread and you are well aware of them.

Did you try to exercise to improve your quality of life?

My thoughts are that if you do decide on TRT, you will need to watch your PSA frequently and stop the testosterone supplement once your PSA rises above your current/baseline level. Is this what your doctor recommended (see your first post)?

Old Salt
Posts: 808
Joined: Aug 2014

A  (very) relevant review was cited on another prostate cancer site:

Testosterone Therapy After Prostate Cancer Treatment: A Review of Literature - ScienceDirect

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

Do you know of others that took TRT?

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

I I don't do it what r my Consequences?

amdenver
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 2020

Here is some information, one recent others a bit dated but still appear valid:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0090429519300895

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17183557/

(Credit to Tall_Allen for the following)

https://bjui-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2011.10193.x

 

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

SPOKE TO DR  FROM SYLVESTOR AND HE WAS AGAINST ME TAKING TESTOTERONE.HE SAID IT COULD REACTIVATE CANCER.HE SAID U COULD LEAD NORMAL LIFE WITH LOW TSTOTERONE.HE AGRRED WITH MY UROLOGIST FROM NORTHSHORE.IT APPEARS THIS IS HOTLY DEBATED ISSUE.DR FROM HARVARD CLAIMS ITS OK TO TAKE BUT ACKNOWLEDGES ITS DEBATABLE AND THERE R RISKS.I WILL LIVE WITH IT AS IT IS NOT WORTH TAKIING THE RISK OF THE CANCER COMING BACK.

hewhositsoncushions
Posts: 393
Joined: Mar 2017

Diet and exercise wont cure theT shortfall but will help close the gap in terms of energy levels

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

How will diet and eercise help?

Old Salt
Posts: 808
Joined: Aug 2014

Hormone therapy has many side effects. Among others, there's an effect on bones, leading potentially to osteoporosis. Exercise (walking etc) will help to counteract that.

Also, one tends to gain weight; exercise and a proper diet will help to minimize that. 

Exercise, as a distraction, is also good for the mind.

Old Salt
Posts: 808
Joined: Aug 2014

Good for you!

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

no choice.based on the advice of Sylvester.

 

GeorgeG
Posts: 152
Joined: May 2017

Once we are in the club our decisions exist within certain boxes, we can never be exactly as we were. We can live satisfying and good lives but with new limits and considerations. Every treatment that we decide to take has a risk profile, something is given up for the perceived benefit of the treatment, it is not free. The choice is not perfect. You are the only one that knows what is most important to you. Once you are presented with the options only you and your family will know what decision is the best fit. I hear, "that cancer must come out I can't live with any cancer inside me"! Others prefer watchful waiting, leave it alone if a low level threat. Same cancer, 2 different families.

ADT by its design pushes the cancer back by depriving the growth mechanism of testosterone. For most men this works for a period of time and then it slowly stops working so complete blockaid is added for the residual androgens elsewhere and then on to other things. Your doctor may know the answer to this because I don't - is there any data on cancer that is completely undetctable but now back in an environment flooded with testosterone, its main fuel. On paper, there is certainly a risk of starting everything back up. only you know what the biggest motivator is for you - getting back to baseline while risking recurrance or optimizing the possibility of remission and putting up with the side effects. Play both movies forward to the conclusion in a thought experiment and see which one feels right to you.

If it were me and I was in remission with the possibility of decades ahead I don't think I would risk it. If I was closer to the end I might want one last shot at my old self. It also depends on your surroundings - job, wife, kids. I just lost my wife, kids all moved away. My calculation might be very different than yours.

 

Half the battle is getting our heads right and making adjustments after acceptance. Don't give up fighting but don't let the bandit as its called here take evrything from you.

 

George

 

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

i HAVE STUDDIED THE SUBJECT FOR OVER 2 YEARS NOW  AND HAVE COME TO MY CONCLSION THAT IT IS TOO RISKY TO TRY TRT AFTER BEING TREATED SUCCESSFULLY FOR PROSTATE CANCER.THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW IF TRT WILL WORK AND THERE ARE  DRS THAT BELIEVE IT WILL CAUSE THE CANCER TO RETURN.IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT THE TREATMENT TO GET RID OF THE CANCER WAS TO LOWER THE TESTOSTERONE THEN WHY WOULD YOU TAKE TRT AFTER YOU ARE IN REMISSION.IN FACT PATIENTS WHOSE CANCER HAS RETURNED ARE GIVEN DRUGS TO LOWER THEIR TESTOSTERONE AND THIS MAY BE THE ONLY TREATMENT THEY RECEIVE.

GeorgeG
Posts: 152
Joined: May 2017

Artie

 

Exactly how I see it.

 

George

 

artie
Posts: 60
Joined: Jun 2018

gaining weight ,low energy cancer gone but suffer from sideeffects of low testoterone.Need help?Any ideas ?

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 3371
Joined: Nov 2010

Hi,

I wonder if TRT would be that bad in your case. I think that you could try it under periodical vigilance, because of the long period in remission. However, you could also try to find the reason behind your lack of testosterone and start by treating it (if any).

As we age, our body changes the way it uses hormones.  That Michelin tire created arround our waist is made up of estrogens that, by itself, have been produced from testosterone, reducing the stuff. . The most evidence of its existence is when we lose our six packs and see it being replaced by a menopause belly. The estrogens storage depot is the tummy.

You can try increasing testosterone with a diet proper to counter the production of estrogens, accompanied with a series of physical exercises. Vitamin B5, B6 and B12 seem to be influential in the production of testosterone. You may aquire them naturally by changing your diet. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323224

https://universityhealthnews.com/daily/aging-independence/8-surprising-high-estrogen-symptoms-in-men/

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/mens-health/in-depth/male-menopause/art-20048056

Hope this helps in your regaining of quality of life.

Best

VG

 

 

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