crazy bloodwork

SnapDragon2
SnapDragon2 Member Posts: 646 Member

Bloodwork showed elevation with alt, ast, chloride, glucose and sodium.  What the heck!  Does folfox cause all of this?

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  • SnapDragon2
    SnapDragon2 Member Posts: 646 Member
    OH...AND CEA is up to 12!

    OH...AND CEA is up to 12!

  • Kazenmax
    Kazenmax Member Posts: 458 Member
    I understand how scary that

    I understand how scary that sounds but it could also mean you are dehydrated. I recall having these kinds of bad counts during chemo. My onc never does CEA. He said that it was a poor indicator for rectal cancer.

    Im not a doctor but I think that the chemo can cause these numbers. What did your doc say?

    i hope theres a simple explanation. Good luck.

    k

  • SandiaBuddy
    SandiaBuddy Member Posts: 1,256 Member
    ?

    I am in the dark on all of this, but I do know that chemo throws everything off. . .  I hope your oncologist provides information and things continue in the right direction for you.

  • SnapDragon2
    SnapDragon2 Member Posts: 646 Member
    Kazenmax said:

    I understand how scary that

    I understand how scary that sounds but it could also mean you are dehydrated. I recall having these kinds of bad counts during chemo. My onc never does CEA. He said that it was a poor indicator for rectal cancer.

    Im not a doctor but I think that the chemo can cause these numbers. What did your doc say?

    i hope theres a simple explanation. Good luck.

    k

    It worries me for sure.  Yes,

    It worries me for sure.  Yes, you are probably right.  I did some research last night and found a few papers that stated chloride and sodium generally go hand in hand and can point to dehydration.  My onc has never mentioned it as a concern and those two have been high for 2 months, smh.  I wish he was an agressive onc.  He always just says "your #s look good."  Uhm, no they don't!  So anyway, drinking gatorade for next 9 days until I go back for chemo, so we'll see what those 2 #s are like then.  Its so frustrating.

  • abita
    abita Member Posts: 1,108 Member
    How much elevation? And did

    How much elevation? And did it go up? There are some that are a bit high on my bloodwork, and he always tells me my bloodwork is good. I think unfortunately, chemo is poison. There is also the possibilty that the tumors cause the bad bloodwork. Does your hospital portal have a messaging system? I would send a quick note and ask if you should be concerned about those specific issues.  They don't talk about it, but they defiinitely closely monitor any indicators of damage to organs. My doctor once said something in response to my question as to whether I could have a glass of wine at my reunion that made it very clear that he was not treating just my tumors that it is his job to keep me alive and with a good quality of life. So, my whole point in saying that is I know how scary seeing high numbers can be, but that a good oncologist is watching all that as well as they want to keep us as good as they can in addition to killing the tumors. You should definitely ask, hey, I see the numbers are high, should I be concerned?

    Unlike Kazenmax, my CEA count was a good indicator of my tumors. Not as much with the recurrence though. It stays in the good range, but gets larger when the tumors do and smaller when they are shrinking. To be fair, my original liver tumors were gigantic so of course the numbr was high.

    I agree about the water. But no scientific basis or professional telling me. In my own head, which is not a good source, I feel like chemo is a poison, so I should drink water according to guidelines to help my kidneys and liver.

    I am a vegan. When I was due for surgeries, my surgeon and the hospital nutritionist had me eat lots of protein for healing. I curtailed that, but recently a nurse told me I should still make sure to get enough protein so I heal from the chemo. Again, I have no basis as to whether that is good advice or not. 

  • SnapDragon2
    SnapDragon2 Member Posts: 646 Member
    edited March 2020 #7

    ?

    I am in the dark on all of this, but I do know that chemo throws everything off. . .  I hope your oncologist provides information and things continue in the right direction for you.

    You are so right.  It does

    You are so right.  It does and worries me when the #s are way up or way down.  If there is an easy/preventive fix so you don't wind up with organ damage due to chemo then I need to know about it.  My onc is to conservative and offers nothing.

  • abita
    abita Member Posts: 1,108 Member

    It worries me for sure.  Yes,

    It worries me for sure.  Yes, you are probably right.  I did some research last night and found a few papers that stated chloride and sodium generally go hand in hand and can point to dehydration.  My onc has never mentioned it as a concern and those two have been high for 2 months, smh.  I wish he was an agressive onc.  He always just says "your #s look good."  Uhm, no they don't!  So anyway, drinking gatorade for next 9 days until I go back for chemo, so we'll see what those 2 #s are like then.  Its so frustrating.

    DId yuo talk to the oncology

    DId yuo talk to the oncology nutritionist yet? If your hospital has one, they maybe could help you know if you are needing to adjust your nutrional intake. 

  • SnapDragon2
    SnapDragon2 Member Posts: 646 Member
    abita said:

    How much elevation? And did

    How much elevation? And did it go up? There are some that are a bit high on my bloodwork, and he always tells me my bloodwork is good. I think unfortunately, chemo is poison. There is also the possibilty that the tumors cause the bad bloodwork. Does your hospital portal have a messaging system? I would send a quick note and ask if you should be concerned about those specific issues.  They don't talk about it, but they defiinitely closely monitor any indicators of damage to organs. My doctor once said something in response to my question as to whether I could have a glass of wine at my reunion that made it very clear that he was not treating just my tumors that it is his job to keep me alive and with a good quality of life. So, my whole point in saying that is I know how scary seeing high numbers can be, but that a good oncologist is watching all that as well as they want to keep us as good as they can in addition to killing the tumors. You should definitely ask, hey, I see the numbers are high, should I be concerned?

    Unlike Kazenmax, my CEA count was a good indicator of my tumors. Not as much with the recurrence though. It stays in the good range, but gets larger when the tumors do and smaller when they are shrinking. To be fair, my original liver tumors were gigantic so of course the numbr was high.

    I agree about the water. But no scientific basis or professional telling me. In my own head, which is not a good source, I feel like chemo is a poison, so I should drink water according to guidelines to help my kidneys and liver.

    I am a vegan. When I was due for surgeries, my surgeon and the hospital nutritionist had me eat lots of protein for healing. I curtailed that, but recently a nurse told me I should still make sure to get enough protein so I heal from the chemo. Again, I have no basis as to whether that is good advice or not. 

    chloride was highest on 24th

    chloride was highest on 24th bloodwork at 111

    sodium was 147

     

    alt up to 19 from 14

    ast up to 28 from 14 ( alt should be equal to ast or higher then ast from what I read)

    monocytes up to 13.3 (need to research this one.  I have no idea what monocytes do)

    lymphocytes up to 10.5 (a super good thing.  been eating lots of orange foods to get that up.)

  • SnapDragon2
    SnapDragon2 Member Posts: 646 Member
    edited March 2020 #10
    abita said:

    DId yuo talk to the oncology

    DId yuo talk to the oncology nutritionist yet? If your hospital has one, they maybe could help you know if you are needing to adjust your nutrional intake. 

    No, they don't have one.  I

    No, they don't have one.  I went to one for a consultation right before start of folfox.  Found out I am gluten sensitive and thyroid levels were off because of it.  Onc was mad I went to a nutritionalist and said there is no such thing as gluten sensitivity, you either have celiac disease or you don't.  I took advice of nutritionalist and cut out gluten.  The thyroid level went from a high of 218 to 1.3 in 5 weeks.  Normal level is <6.  Emailed nutritionalist my bloodwork yesterday.  So hopefully he will have some insight and advice.

  • abita
    abita Member Posts: 1,108 Member

    chloride was highest on 24th

    chloride was highest on 24th bloodwork at 111

    sodium was 147

     

    alt up to 19 from 14

    ast up to 28 from 14 ( alt should be equal to ast or higher then ast from what I read)

    monocytes up to 13.3 (need to research this one.  I have no idea what monocytes do)

    lymphocytes up to 10.5 (a super good thing.  been eating lots of orange foods to get that up.)

    Chloride normal range is up

    Chloride normal range is up to 109, so you are out of normal range, but not by much

    Sodium is 143, so agian, high, but not crazy high

    My lab report has your AST and ALT to be in normal range. How far over normal range does yours have it as? I wonder if we are on different scales. 

  • Tueffel
    Tueffel Member Posts: 319 Member
    edited March 2020 #12
    Explanation

    What I understand is that you have questions but the doctor never has the time or does not care to explain why certain things are out of range or not normal. You are going now through scary times, so you do have more questions. 

    I would say first of all that I can only explain to you what it could mean but that does not mean that it will be the case for you. The numbers could be close to normal or always like that during a chemo for you or even before.

    Glucose: I assume you were not 8 hours of fasting when they took your blood. If you were it depends again how high the number was to consider if someone is prediabetic or has diabetes. 

    ALT and AST: normally these are liver and bile system enzymes. They indicate damage of cells. They can be elevated due to drugs. I dont know if you have liver mets and if they do release normal enzymes when they are damaged. 

    Sodium: water loss is a possibility. Maybe you should check the gatorade you are drinking. I know that drinks mention how high their sodium content is. If you drink a lot of ot and it has a lot of sodium it could be this cause. 

    Still at this point I can only do assumptions about your case. 

  • SnapDragon2
    SnapDragon2 Member Posts: 646 Member
    abita said:

    Chloride normal range is up

    Chloride normal range is up to 109, so you are out of normal range, but not by much

    Sodium is 143, so agian, high, but not crazy high

    My lab report has your AST and ALT to be in normal range. How far over normal range does yours have it as? I wonder if we are on different scales. 

    alt 2-38

    alt 2-38

    ast 9-33

    My worry is they have always been 14 and 14, then now a jump apart.

  • SnapDragon2
    SnapDragon2 Member Posts: 646 Member
    Haven't drank any gatorade

    Haven't drank any gatorade yet but planning to starting today.

  • SandiaBuddy
    SandiaBuddy Member Posts: 1,256 Member

    It worries me for sure.  Yes,

    It worries me for sure.  Yes, you are probably right.  I did some research last night and found a few papers that stated chloride and sodium generally go hand in hand and can point to dehydration.  My onc has never mentioned it as a concern and those two have been high for 2 months, smh.  I wish he was an agressive onc.  He always just says "your #s look good."  Uhm, no they don't!  So anyway, drinking gatorade for next 9 days until I go back for chemo, so we'll see what those 2 #s are like then.  Its so frustrating.

    Gatorade

    I started on Gatorade (actually Powerade Strawberry Lemondade) during chemo, and have stayed drinking it until now (I probably do not need the extra sugar anymore).  I also supplement with potasium gluconate, which seems to help me.  Chemo wreaks havoc with your body and the way it reacts is unpredicatable.  But if the numbers do not worry the oncologist, it is probably ok.  I had some weird numbers, but they never mentioned them, so I just disregarded them.

  • Trubrit
    Trubrit Member Posts: 5,623 Member
    edited March 2020 #16
    CEA

    My Oncologist never ordered a CEA on me during treatment because he said that ithe chemo makes it fluctuate, so it is not accurate.  I'm fine. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. 

    Tru

  • NewHere
    NewHere Member Posts: 1,390 Member

    Haven't drank any gatorade

    Haven't drank any gatorade yet but planning to starting today.

    Quick Head's Up On Gatorade

    Most of the time it is better to cut Gatorade with water.  Or make your own drink.  It really should be limited to exercise at a high level or if you are experiencing a need for it - like you are about to dehydrate.  Even then, we cut it with water when we suspect heat exertion etc.  If you have a nutristionist, may be a good idea to speak with them.

     

    As to the blood work in general, there can be occasional spikes/changes. Of course spikes should be looked at, but the trend is also important.  I had one bloodwork test done where the numbers were way off and they redid them right away - they thought there was an issue/contaiminaiton.  Numbers came back to normal.  Get answers from your doc about it.  And make sure you feel comfortable with the answers (fully understand the how and why as compared to getting an answer "There is nothing to worry about" if you want more than that.)

  • SnapDragon2
    SnapDragon2 Member Posts: 646 Member
    edited March 2020 #18
    NewHere said:

    Quick Head's Up On Gatorade

    Most of the time it is better to cut Gatorade with water.  Or make your own drink.  It really should be limited to exercise at a high level or if you are experiencing a need for it - like you are about to dehydrate.  Even then, we cut it with water when we suspect heat exertion etc.  If you have a nutristionist, may be a good idea to speak with them.

     

    As to the blood work in general, there can be occasional spikes/changes. Of course spikes should be looked at, but the trend is also important.  I had one bloodwork test done where the numbers were way off and they redid them right away - they thought there was an issue/contaiminaiton.  Numbers came back to normal.  Get answers from your doc about it.  And make sure you feel comfortable with the answers (fully understand the how and why as compared to getting an answer "There is nothing to worry about" if you want more than that.)

    Funny story: He told me 3

    Funny story: He told me 3 weeks ago when I asked for details of the highs and lows of #'s that for me not to worry about it.  He hasn't lost a patient yet on chemo.  Just Wow!!!  A nurse did tell me they have a few patients that get hydration fluid before or after chemo.  If I can avoid any side effects then that is what I need to do.  I don't want to wait until its bad enough to have to have fluids or bad enough to where I have to have a stint or whatever in my liver, ya know!

    Thank you for info on gatorade with water.  Thats what I will do.  I have the lower sugar.  Store was out of zero sugar.

  • abita
    abita Member Posts: 1,108 Member

    Funny story: He told me 3

    Funny story: He told me 3 weeks ago when I asked for details of the highs and lows of #'s that for me not to worry about it.  He hasn't lost a patient yet on chemo.  Just Wow!!!  A nurse did tell me they have a few patients that get hydration fluid before or after chemo.  If I can avoid any side effects then that is what I need to do.  I don't want to wait until its bad enough to have to have fluids or bad enough to where I have to have a stint or whatever in my liver, ya know!

    Thank you for info on gatorade with water.  Thats what I will do.  I have the lower sugar.  Store was out of zero sugar.

    I don't know that might make

    I don't know that might make me look for new doctor. I was hospitalized when diagnosed, and my surgeon came in the day after they saw the tumor, a Saturday, to tell me all I needed to k ow and to give me hope.

  • Ruthmomto4
    Ruthmomto4 Member Posts: 706 Member
    Your liver enzymes

    Will be effected by chemo those are very tiny elevations I would not even give them a second though.  Still in normal range and yes it's fine your liver will fix those after chemo is over. All those things you are watching will fluctuate from chemo. I have my husband's liver values memorized from ages back and he has liver damage from surgeries and a bile duct tumor. His ast & alt have gine into the 200-300 range to rebound back to normal. Don't lose a second of time worrying on these numbers it's fine! 

  • SnapDragon2
    SnapDragon2 Member Posts: 646 Member

    Your liver enzymes

    Will be effected by chemo those are very tiny elevations I would not even give them a second though.  Still in normal range and yes it's fine your liver will fix those after chemo is over. All those things you are watching will fluctuate from chemo. I have my husband's liver values memorized from ages back and he has liver damage from surgeries and a bile duct tumor. His ast & alt have gine into the 200-300 range to rebound back to normal. Don't lose a second of time worrying on these numbers it's fine! 

    Thank you for your reply.  I

    Thank you for your reply.  I knew someone here was a liver expert.  Yes, it is spelled stent.  I'm still learning.  I worry which is a natural thing and need to verify everything so I don't slip thru the cracks with my cancer.