This is why you don’t do radiation as primary treatment

Steve1961
Steve1961 Member Posts: 301
edited February 2020 in Prostate Cancer #1

As you all know I did a combination of radiation treatment and I had many bad side effects and I'm still bitter about it below I will  is my one and a half your follow up and when I asked the DR how low should my PSA get so I will know if the treatment was successful  what is the nadir to be so I can proclaim that I am cancer free this is the answer I got....quote .           

There is no evidence of local disease. Your PSA is heading the right direction. Your PSA is below the normal range and there is no cut off. We follow PSA trend after definitive radiotherapy.   Really this is horse crap look at these publications I  found                         This is from Harvard Health 

Neither the physician nor the patient should have a false sense of security if the PSA is 2 or 3 ng/ml. It means that the patient has residual or recurrent prostate cancer. Often, the PSA is the first harbinger of recurrent disease, even though it may predate any symptoms or clinical evidence of the disease by months or years.

For the patient treated with radiation, the evaluation is a bit more complex. Often the value does drop to zero. If, however, the value is 1 or 2 ng/ml, it may be the case that some of the normal prostate tissue survived radiation treatment and is still producing PSA. If the value continues to rise, there is reason to be concerned that either cancer has spread outside the gland or the radiation treatment did not eradicate the cancer within the gland. Recent studies have shown that for optimal results, PSA levels should be lower than 1 ng/ml, and even lower than 0.5 ng/ml. Levels that are above 1 or 2 ng/ml 12 to 18 months following completion of radiation treatments are very worrisome, because they indicate that the cancer may not have been eradicated.                                                                              

 

 

Conclusion

Achievement of nadir PSA ≤0.5 ng/mL after completion of dose-escalated radiation therapy was associated with improvement of all prostate cancer endpoints

 

I will be sending my doctor these publications and see what he has to say.       Theses are my results    

 

Name
Standard Range

Prostate Specific Ag
<4.00 ug/L

11/6/18 4.159
2/7/19 3.454
5/2/19 3.408
6/18/19 3.998
8/28/19 2.560
11/6/19 3.017
2/12/20 2.077

Comments

  • MK1965
    MK1965 Member Posts: 230 Member
    PSA trends down

    Steve,

    Your PSA is trending down which is good sign I hope you will soon reach your nadir point and be happy with result.

    Hopefully, you will stay cancer free and enjoy your life.

    MK

  • Steve1961
    Steve1961 Member Posts: 301
    Hopefully

    Yeah hopefully but my doctor said there is no cut off and this guy is a top radiologist at the number for supposedly cancer center in America what a crock of **** I'm bout ready to read him the riot act

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,491 Member
    The good path to victory

    Well Steve,

    A drop of the PSA in 15 month from 4.16 to 2.08 is to be congratulated. Let's celebrate.

    I believe that you are on the good path to victory. That nadir of 0.5 ng/ml is now closer. The publication you refer in your above post indicates medium values from a group/cohort of patients with similar status and therapy. Some in the group had higher conclusive values and some had lower but in the end they all fared well. You seem to belong in the group of those that reached success.

    I will drink a glass of my Portuguese red Esporao. How about joining me?

    Best

    VG

  • hewhositsoncushions
    hewhositsoncushions Member Posts: 402 Member
    And RP surgery fails as well.

    And RP surgery fails as well. You need to get over agonising over your choices and move on.

  • Clevelandguy
    Clevelandguy Member Posts: 750 Member
    Sounds good

    Hi Steve,

    Sounds like your heading in the right direction with your decreasing readings.  Hope for many more in the future.

    Dave 3+4

  • Steve1961
    Steve1961 Member Posts: 301
    Thank you all but

    The quote from my dr disturbs me ..there is no cut off..there has to be some form of nadir ..I want to know what that may be ..that publication is from Harvard health ..well will see what he has to say when I emsil him back 

  • Clevelandguy
    Clevelandguy Member Posts: 750 Member
    edited February 2020 #8
    Psa?

    Hi,

    Sounds like your Psa is falling to a certain level, if it stays there and does not increase it would indicate to me that your cancer is in remission.  As with all of us if your Psa starts to rise again over several readings it should be investigated by your doctor.  Just hope that once it bottoms out at what ever number it stays there.

    Dave 3+4

  • lighterwood67
    lighterwood67 Member Posts: 320 Member

    I can remember when you were researching what type of treatment.  You did your research and made your choice.  Looks like to me you are having excellent PSA results from your treatment albeit, you did have some side effects issues.  You need to be celebrating these results and quit beating yourself up.  Mental anguish takes a toll on the body and could be impeding your recovery.  PSA declining every couple of months or so.  Set the fireworks off.  Give yourself a break.  Anyway great news. Don't worry about the nadir.  Worry about Steve.  You are on a good journey young man.  You are a success story.  None of our journeys are easy.  Go have that toast.  Best of luck to you.

  • lighterwood67
    lighterwood67 Member Posts: 320 Member
    Steve1961 said:

    Thank you all but

    The quote from my dr disturbs me ..there is no cut off..there has to be some form of nadir ..I want to know what that may be ..that publication is from Harvard health ..well will see what he has to say when I emsil him back 

    RT
    After radiation therapy

    Radiation therapy doesn't kill all of the cells in the prostate gland, so it's not expected to cause the PSA to drop to an undetectable level. The remaining normal prostate cells will still make some PSA.

  • Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3
    Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3 Member Posts: 3,721 Member
    edited February 2020 #11
    Trend....

    Steve,

    I would say that your post-radiation PSA trend is more indicative of cure than of relapse.   One of the key reasons I ultimately chose surgery rather than IGRT was that if surgery is successful, the PSA goes almost immediately (within a few months) to Undetectable, and then stays there.   I am too much of a worrier to deal with the normal PSA oscillations and bouncing around that R.T. inevitably (and normally) brings, even when completely successful.   Your history is textbook "successful," but there is no "proof" yet, if there ever will be.

    Don't be one of the guys who either are always of the opinion that "Surgery always sucks" or, alternatively, "Radiation always sucks."  It is more accurate to say that both usually are pretty much successful and effective.  Both at times have sad results in some individuals.   You are likely OK.  I hope you can feel good about that.

    max

  • Coldbiker
    Coldbiker Member Posts: 23
    Steve1961 said:

    Hopefully

    Yeah hopefully but my doctor said there is no cut off and this guy is a top radiologist at the number for supposedly cancer center in America what a crock of **** I'm bout ready to read him the riot act

    We all wake up everyday after

    We all wake up everyday after a cancer diagnosis with a choice, to be bitter, angry, and lashing out or we can be thankful and have a good day. Both are valid, one is good for the soul. You seem to be attempting to recruit people to validate being bitter, so far it's not working and that's a good thing. Your Dr is right, With RT there is no cutoff until a personal  nadir is reached then poof there is YOUR cutoff. There are optimal ranges, which is different until your nadir is reached, useless to compare where you are.  If you has ADT also, as I did then that complicates it. It can take 3 years to reach nadir according to what I have told/read. Reading the riot act to a Dr because he is not telling you what you want to hear, yeah good plan. Get another opinion if that what it takes 

  • Georges Calvez
    Georges Calvez Member Posts: 545 Member
    Endlessly chewed over
    Hi Everybody,

    This is endlessly chewed over, not only here but elsewhere.
    This is a discussion on another place where I also contribute, hopefully it will not be taken down!
    https://healthunlocked.com/advanced-prostate-cancer/posts/142720911/rp-v.-rt-...-yet-again

    Best wishes,

    Georges