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Liver mets bs lung mets

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

Does anyone know why lung mets respond less quickly to chemo than liver mets do?

Melanie67's picture
Melanie67
Posts: 16
Joined: Jan 2019

I think it has to do with blood supply, but I am not really sure. 

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

Someone said something similar to that to me. She mentioned that her theory is that everything we ingest gets filtered through the liver, so it gets a "bigger dose" sort of. Thank you for the input. I am trying to keep my hope alive, and if it is just that these shrink slower, it gives me hope that they eventually will. My brain, unfortunately, needs to hear the "why" this is the case.

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

So, see that has me wondering if maybe getting some cardio in, plus some deep breathing in on those 3 days the chemo is in my system would faclitate getting more chemo to the lung mets. I googled how to get more blood to lungs, and that was what I found as two ways. Now, my breathing is shallow as I have stopped my exercise regimen from chemo fatigue, and my allergies ususally mean shallow breathing. And yes, I have been told my entire life that I overthink things. This is also probably why I like to know the WHY :)

Cynthia64
Posts: 9
Joined: Aug 2011

What chemotherapy are you on?  Traditionally, it is my understanding that Irinotecan works much better on lung mets than oxiplatin.

Cynthia

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

I was on folfox when the first lung nodule grew into a lung met. By the time I switched oncologists, things go so slow, I had 3 lung mets. I am on irinotecan and erbutix. First scan, they shrunk a bit, second, same size, third, grew a tiny tiny bit. I am told these are all good scans. My 2 liver mets meanwhile, shrunk too small to be seen on the ct, although I am sure there are residual cells that would still be picked up on a pet. All the mets were around the same size though when I started this protocol, which is why I am trying to understand this topic so I can stay positive that the lung mets will eventually shrink.

Cynthia64
Posts: 9
Joined: Aug 2011

I had radiofrequency ablation done on my lung mets (while I remained on irinotecan) at Memorial Sloan Kettering.  The procedure was minimally invasive (one night in hospital) but it took several trys to get all of the tumor erradicated.  But it did kill the cancer in my mets in my lungs.  I had about 6 mets all together and it took about 10 RFA's to eliminate them all.

Cynthia

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

Did this impact your lung capacity, like exercising and such? I really miss those all out elliptical sessions before my cancer. In fact, when I had my recurrence bought the same one from gym for my apt, even though I rarely use it.

The last surgery/ablation discussion I had was before MSK, when I got the 2 mets on my liver as recurrence. I was told those were too close to something for either. I am at MSK now. I am thinking I need to ask if this is a possibilty in my future. I wonder if he is waiting while the scans are still good, or maybe because since in other organs why do that now. And part of my not asking has been that I didn't even think about it, probably because I am terrified of these things. But I have been thinking that I really want to do what I can to live a long, healthy enough life to achieve my dream of being a little old cat lady :)

myAZmountain's picture
myAZmountain
Posts: 329
Joined: Apr 2018

Cynthia were all of your mets in one lung lobe or one side? I pursued RFA or proton therapy only to be shot down (well at Mayo Phoenix that is) What other criteria was required?  Luckily nothing is growing or even metabolically active per last scan so am on the waiting for next scan plan. Thanks so much!

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

Did they say why you aren't a candidate?

What does metabolically active mean? Does that mean that you got a pet scan and they are thinking that the mets are really just dead cancer cells at this point that haven't been removed yet? Are they keeping you on chemo for now, or are ou on a chemo break?

myAZmountain's picture
myAZmountain
Posts: 329
Joined: Apr 2018

WHen I was pursuing some kind of lung ablation on my biopsy proven lung met in right lung  the onc form Mayo Phoenix said I was "chemo for life" and not a candidate because I had maybe mets in the left lung and if there were mets in both lungs it was contraindicated. I went to a lung surgeon that specialised in lung cancer to see if candidate for lobectomy, because I was trying anything other than being on chemo after 9 sessions of FOLFOX. By that time the proven lung mets were shrinking each scan and the center portion was calcified, meaning it was dying, but was described as not metaboliccaly active so I guess it means dead lol. So am just watching and blessed that I have never had a new tumor pop up and the existing ones are dying. BUT, I have established with the lung surgeon that if anything grows they will zap them with RFA --have said I will refuse chemo. So the last time I had chemo was November 2018.

 

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

Thatbis amazing that they continued dying after you stopped chemo. Mine are not shrinking, but they are relatively stable so hoping one day for news like yours. Thanks for the hope! Meanwhile, my liver tumors shrunk to cells.

Cynthia64
Posts: 9
Joined: Aug 2011

I had mets in both lungs.  They would only do one lung at each RFA session (in case there was a lung collapse, I would still have one fully functioning lung.). I don't remember having criteria presented before I could have the RFA's.  Dr. Kemeny just ordered them and the Interventional Radiologist (Steven Solomon) did them through the years.  I didn't have cancer anywhere else at the time.

 

Cynthia

SnapDragon2's picture
SnapDragon2
Posts: 275
Joined: Nov 2019

I know this off subject but Abita you have gorgeous hair girl...I love the color also.

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

Thank you! But had beautiful hair thatbi lost all in one week after my second round of irinotecan. Kind of why I am so obsessed with the shrinkage of the lung tumors as I would really live to get them under control enough to maybe go on just erbutix so i can grow my hair back. I miss it so much. Honestly, i was optimistic until i lost my hair, then just so sad sometimes now.

SnapDragon2's picture
SnapDragon2
Posts: 275
Joined: Nov 2019

Do you mean you lost all your hair or just thined?  Mine is fine textured and thin.  I am woriied about losing mine when I start folfox Monday.

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

All. I didn't lose much on folfox. Some not much. Irinotecan is the colon cancer drug that takes the hair.

SnapDragon2's picture
SnapDragon2
Posts: 275
Joined: Nov 2019

Goodness.  You will grow it back, right?  

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

If I ever am able to get off irinotecan. Currently I have fuzzy soft hair that grows to about a half inch then falls out. I have about a third of an inch of coarse dark hair, and a few strands of regular hair that has grown to about an inch. I am devastated, but I am so happy to still be around.

SnapDragon2's picture
SnapDragon2
Posts: 275
Joined: Nov 2019

Yes ma'am to that!

abita's picture
abita
Posts: 781
Joined: Dec 2017

make no mistake, I was so upset about my hair that my oncologist gave me tough love because he thought I would quit chemo. I think he doesn't understand fully how strong my will to survive is. I was near death when I sucumbed to the infection where my tumor perforated my colon and I ended up in the emergency room to start this ride and get my diagnosis, and I am so grateful to my wonderful surgeon who saved me, and I will do anything to continue this life that I love, even if I am a little weaker.

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