2.5 yrs out and experiencing side effects

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EnergizerBunnyFrayed
EnergizerBunnyFrayed Member Posts: 14
edited January 2018 in Head and Neck Cancer #1

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  • bebo12249
    bebo12249 Member Posts: 181 Member
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    There is a very good chance

    There is a very good chance that if you saw a medical or radiation oncologist, they would agree with your ENT that you should see an neurologist as most of your presentation is in their domain. You may want to follow the ENTs suggestion, the only medical advice it appears you have been given. Bill

  • AnotherSurvivor
    AnotherSurvivor Member Posts: 383 Member
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    The lymphedema is caused by

    The lymphedema is caused by damage to your neck, or more accurately is [at least some of] the damage to your neck, and was caused by the radiation.  The toasted lymph nodes don't process fluid as before, and it accumulates, leading to swelling, periodic cramping, at least on my neck.  I would see some form of doc, tho I don't know if you need a specialist.  My oncols and ENT aren't big treaters of tissue damage, tho very good in the tumor department.  They are sympathetic but not particularly useful on the problem. 

    My youngest is an ER doc, useful but not sympathetic, and he says it's just a permanent problem I need to learn to live with.   I wear neck gators and scarfs, and find keeping my neck warm reduces the tightening.   Mine cycles between accumulating fluid and draining.  There are massage therapists/PTs that specialize in neck lymphedema, mine gave me a sheet on technique for promoting drainage.  Be careful when massaging your neck, the touch is almost like a light paint brush, very light, harder only worsens the problem.  You basically want to drain the nodes below the neck so the fluid will drain down to the now empty lower nodes.   You now have a semi-manual lymphatic system.

  • hlrowe
    hlrowe Member Posts: 80
    edited December 2017 #4
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    Follow the ENT advice

    Sounds like good advice. About the lymphedema, have you had it this entire time? I got it about 10 weeks out post TX (scared the crap out of me) and my rad onc ordered a massage therapist who was certified in head and neck. Not many are. And as AnotherSurvivor said, it requires a VERY light touch. Have a therapist look at it. DO NOT follow internet advice on the type of massage needed!

    I'm 5 1/2 years out and if I bend the wrong way my neck really spasms (on side where tumor was near epiglottis).

    Sorry to hear you do not have a support mechanism. Very, Very tough going it alone. I salute you! (Army vet here)

  • johnsonbl
    johnsonbl Member Posts: 266 Member
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    I'd give PT or OT a try...

    Agree with others above.  Did you have a neck dissection?  The radiation itself can certainly impact the lymphatics in your neck...but for me it was the neck dissection and the removal of those lymph nodes that caused my spasming and cramping and general wierd numbness/tingliness in my left neck.  The answer for me was PT...the more I stretch and move my neck the better it feels...

  • CivilMatt
    CivilMatt Member Posts: 4,722 Member
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    welcome

    EBF,

    Welcome to the H&N forum, sorry that pre & post cancer hasn’t been more fun (but is it ever).

    I saw my rad onc for the 1st year and my ENT for 5 years (and they say 6, I will see).

    Call it Edema, it is much simpiler to remember and spell (and it means the same).

    A HBOT dive (20 or 30) is common on here for teeth work (many have been there).

    I am from Oregon and I had a great magic mouth wash (Willamette Valley vintage). What aftercare did you need? I had plenty of dr. visits, a number of massages, speech therapy until I was whistling Dixie (whistling is hard now) and physical therapy until I was playing hop-scotch again.

    I used no pain meds, I didn’t get a medal (but I should have), my quality of life has bigger problems than my cancer (believe it or not, there are worse things, I know).

    If you are physically sick, see the correct doctor. If you are depressed see the correct doctor.  You sound sad and that should be easier to help successfully than cancer.

    You rambled just enough, you look like a nice person and I hope you can get back on track.

    Now where are you in Oregon so that I am careful when in your area?

    Matt

  • tommyodavey
    tommyodavey Member Posts: 727 Member
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    Same Question

    Just wondering if you had a neck dissection.  If not, then my similar symptoms are due to the rads and not the surgery.  I just assumed the tightening up and cramping was normal and is something we have to live with.

    Sorry you're going through a tough patch.  Do what the others recommended. 

  • EnergizerBunnyFrayed
    Options
    Thanks

    Thanks for all the kind comments and suggestions. 

  • Curlyn
    Curlyn Member Posts: 189
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    Hello, I am so sorry to see

    Hello, I am so sorry to see you go through this. But like others, if you can afford it, I say go to lymphatics massage expert or at least start c PT familiar c head and neck damage by radiation. The nasty thing about lymphedema is that it can become ' bumpy' and firm or hard, and from everything I have learned on this wicked journey, it needs to be attended to before that ( so as not to become permanent). You are very brave but as I see all the comments, I hope you feel less alone. 

  • hiltonjf
    hiltonjf Member Posts: 1
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    SCC of the neck. had disection.. now comes radiation. 30 of them

    will be starting my treatment's very soon. Kinda in the dark what I'm in for

  • ppensom
    ppensom Member Posts: 5
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    The lymphedema is caused by

    The lymphedema is caused by damage to your neck, or more accurately is [at least some of] the damage to your neck, and was caused by the radiation.  The toasted lymph nodes don't process fluid as before, and it accumulates, leading to swelling, periodic cramping, at least on my neck.  I would see some form of doc, tho I don't know if you need a specialist.  My oncols and ENT aren't big treaters of tissue damage, tho very good in the tumor department.  They are sympathetic but not particularly useful on the problem. 

    My youngest is an ER doc, useful but not sympathetic, and he says it's just a permanent problem I need to learn to live with.   I wear neck gators and scarfs, and find keeping my neck warm reduces the tightening.   Mine cycles between accumulating fluid and draining.  There are massage therapists/PTs that specialize in neck lymphedema, mine gave me a sheet on technique for promoting drainage.  Be careful when massaging your neck, the touch is almost like a light paint brush, very light, harder only worsens the problem.  You basically want to drain the nodes below the neck so the fluid will drain down to the now empty lower nodes.   You now have a semi-manual lymphatic system.

    I had lymphedema also. I had

    I had lymphedema also. I had massage therapy from a specialist and they showed my wife how to do it. After 3 months i dont have any edema to deal with. You should try it.

    My biggest problem is saliva that is like glue at night. Any ideas anyone?

     

  • OKCnative
    OKCnative Member Posts: 326 Member
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    I have experienced both edema

    I have experienced both edema to my neck and neuropathy in my legs, feet and tips of my fingers. 

    For the edema I began sleeping with my head raised and sleeping on my back. I also keep my neck warm and practice manual drainage exercises on my neck, as well as overall daily exercise.

    For the neuropathy I increased my activity level and specifically did more leg and feet exercises at the gym. I also walk about 3 miles a day on the treadmill.

    In both cases the symptoms reversed within a month or so.

  • EnergizerBunnyFrayed
    EnergizerBunnyFrayed Member Posts: 14
    edited January 2018 #13
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    bebo12249 said:

    There is a very good chance

    There is a very good chance that if you saw a medical or radiation oncologist, they would agree with your ENT that you should see an neurologist as most of your presentation is in their domain. You may want to follow the ENTs suggestion, the only medical advice it appears you have been given. Bill

    TY

    TY

  • EnergizerBunnyFrayed
    Options

    The lymphedema is caused by

    The lymphedema is caused by damage to your neck, or more accurately is [at least some of] the damage to your neck, and was caused by the radiation.  The toasted lymph nodes don't process fluid as before, and it accumulates, leading to swelling, periodic cramping, at least on my neck.  I would see some form of doc, tho I don't know if you need a specialist.  My oncols and ENT aren't big treaters of tissue damage, tho very good in the tumor department.  They are sympathetic but not particularly useful on the problem. 

    My youngest is an ER doc, useful but not sympathetic, and he says it's just a permanent problem I need to learn to live with.   I wear neck gators and scarfs, and find keeping my neck warm reduces the tightening.   Mine cycles between accumulating fluid and draining.  There are massage therapists/PTs that specialize in neck lymphedema, mine gave me a sheet on technique for promoting drainage.  Be careful when massaging your neck, the touch is almost like a light paint brush, very light, harder only worsens the problem.  You basically want to drain the nodes below the neck so the fluid will drain down to the now empty lower nodes.   You now have a semi-manual lymphatic system.

    TY

    TY

  • EnergizerBunnyFrayed
    Options
    hlrowe said:

    Follow the ENT advice

    Sounds like good advice. About the lymphedema, have you had it this entire time? I got it about 10 weeks out post TX (scared the crap out of me) and my rad onc ordered a massage therapist who was certified in head and neck. Not many are. And as AnotherSurvivor said, it requires a VERY light touch. Have a therapist look at it. DO NOT follow internet advice on the type of massage needed!

    I'm 5 1/2 years out and if I bend the wrong way my neck really spasms (on side where tumor was near epiglottis).

    Sorry to hear you do not have a support mechanism. Very, Very tough going it alone. I salute you! (Army vet here)

    TY

    TY

  • EnergizerBunnyFrayed
    Options
    johnsonbl said:

    I'd give PT or OT a try...

    Agree with others above.  Did you have a neck dissection?  The radiation itself can certainly impact the lymphatics in your neck...but for me it was the neck dissection and the removal of those lymph nodes that caused my spasming and cramping and general wierd numbness/tingliness in my left neck.  The answer for me was PT...the more I stretch and move my neck the better it feels...

    TY

    TY

  • EnergizerBunnyFrayed
    Options
    CivilMatt said:

    welcome

    EBF,

    Welcome to the H&N forum, sorry that pre & post cancer hasn’t been more fun (but is it ever).

    I saw my rad onc for the 1st year and my ENT for 5 years (and they say 6, I will see).

    Call it Edema, it is much simpiler to remember and spell (and it means the same).

    A HBOT dive (20 or 30) is common on here for teeth work (many have been there).

    I am from Oregon and I had a great magic mouth wash (Willamette Valley vintage). What aftercare did you need? I had plenty of dr. visits, a number of massages, speech therapy until I was whistling Dixie (whistling is hard now) and physical therapy until I was playing hop-scotch again.

    I used no pain meds, I didn’t get a medal (but I should have), my quality of life has bigger problems than my cancer (believe it or not, there are worse things, I know).

    If you are physically sick, see the correct doctor. If you are depressed see the correct doctor.  You sound sad and that should be easier to help successfully than cancer.

    You rambled just enough, you look like a nice person and I hope you can get back on track.

    Now where are you in Oregon so that I am careful when in your area?

    Matt

    TY

    TY

  • EnergizerBunnyFrayed
    Options

    Same Question

    Just wondering if you had a neck dissection.  If not, then my similar symptoms are due to the rads and not the surgery.  I just assumed the tightening up and cramping was normal and is something we have to live with.

    Sorry you're going through a tough patch.  Do what the others recommended. 

    TY

    TY

  • EnergizerBunnyFrayed
    Options
    Curlyn said:

    Hello, I am so sorry to see

    Hello, I am so sorry to see you go through this. But like others, if you can afford it, I say go to lymphatics massage expert or at least start c PT familiar c head and neck damage by radiation. The nasty thing about lymphedema is that it can become ' bumpy' and firm or hard, and from everything I have learned on this wicked journey, it needs to be attended to before that ( so as not to become permanent). You are very brave but as I see all the comments, I hope you feel less alone. 

    TY

    TY

  • EnergizerBunnyFrayed
    Options
    TY

    TY

  • EnergizerBunnyFrayed
    Options
    OKCnative said:

    I have experienced both edema

    I have experienced both edema to my neck and neuropathy in my legs, feet and tips of my fingers. 

    For the edema I began sleeping with my head raised and sleeping on my back. I also keep my neck warm and practice manual drainage exercises on my neck, as well as overall daily exercise.

    For the neuropathy I increased my activity level and specifically did more leg and feet exercises at the gym. I also walk about 3 miles a day on the treadmill.

    In both cases the symptoms reversed within a month or so.

    TY

    TY