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Mees line on nails or toenails?

Fluffydog63
Posts: 27
Joined: Jul 2017

Has anyone had these on their fingers or toes before diagnosis? I thank anyone who can respond as I have been to and ask many doctors if they know anything about these and they really do not. Thank you

PBL
Posts: 182
Joined: Jul 2016

Hello Fluffydog63,

I was just wondering if any of the doctors you've seen so far actually said you had Mees lines after examining you, and what steps did they take to investigate the cause?

Also wondering what came out of your appointment with the oncologist you were scheduled to see about two weeks ago?

PBL

po18guy
Posts: 993
Joined: Nov 2011

It may have been related to the autoimmune condition (psoriasis) that fully developed in my teens. They are related to cutaneous (skin) conditions. I did not have cancer until 45 years later.

GSP2's picture
GSP2
Posts: 103
Joined: Feb 2015

may be seen in anything catastrophic/stressful

you will see this mentioned on line...

Arsenic poisoning, Hodgkin’s disease, CHF, leprosy, malaria, chemotherapy, carbon monoxide poisoning, other systemic insults

 

PBL
Posts: 182
Joined: Jul 2016

... I would have been interested in reading Fluffydog63's reply...

 

Even though it may likely not have anything to do with lymphoma.

PBL

ShadyGuy's picture
ShadyGuy
Posts: 390
Joined: Jan 2017

i developed these lines before being diagnosed with FNHL. Two Drs. with no real tests assumed I had psoriatic arthritis. With treatment for lymphoma it all went away. Lost a good friend today to liver cancer. She had just turned 60 on Wednesday and had retired July 31 (rule of 90). Would have received her first retirement check on Sept 1. I mention her because we once discussed this very topic. Bottom line is that meese lines could mean a lot or mean nothing. They are not a reliable indicator of anything in particular.

 

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3278
Joined: May 2012

Shady,

Sorry about your friend..... My brother's mother-in-law was similiar. She had been treated for pancreatitis for about a year.  Finally, they did further testing, and predictably, it was pancreatic cancer.  She died four days later.  

You may have heard my line to people who are being treated long-term for "lumps" by ENTs:  Dont let an ENT antibiotic you to death.   I recall numerous such accounts here over the years.

As Jeremy Renner said in a different context in the bankrobber movie The TownIt's more common than ya think.

I love when a doctor tells someone that something is 'nothng.'  But if it were 'nothing,' it would not present itself.  Ergo, it is 'someting,' albeit perhaps nothing important.  What they really mean is that it is 'nothing they can explain.'  Given my medical history of severe trauma (run over by a car in 1986) and two cancers, I am told all the time that stuff is 'nothing.'  Or more commonly for me, it is nuanced as 'nothing treatable.'  

I'm ok with that; I smile and thank them and go pay the bill at checkout.  I was told that this week by my GP:  I have a new pain in my ulna (forearm bone).  About midway from my wrist to elbow, if a precise spot is touched, a horrible pain flashes immediately.  It never is spontaneous, only when hit in the right, exact spot. No lumps are detectable, no discoloration. The bone feels smooth.  It does not radiate to the hand, so she said it is not a nerve.  Diagnosis: 'nothing.'  I was a little concerned, since relapsed Lymphoma and Prostate cancers both sometimes first reappear as disitant bone tumors. But I digress....

My general point is that usually, something is actually something, and warrants follow-up.  As Billy Preston sang in his 70s hit:  "Nothin from nuthin leaves nuthin; you gotta have somethin."

max

.

 

Fluffydog63
Posts: 27
Joined: Jul 2017

thank you for your reply. What did your mees lines look like? Were they on fingers or toes? Were they on all fingers or toes or just a couple of nails on fingers or toes?  Foot doctor I went to had to Google them. Dermatologist pressed and said mees don't disappear with pressure as mine did but I have read different thing on this theory. Most doctors don't know what they are. Mine are on both big toes About three quarters of the way up To the top. Can't get diagnosis and have been sick for months. My mees Don't go ALL the way across but most of the way and are the same shape as the cuticle moons. I have lost so much weight and have sores in my nose and lipomas. All in the last 7 months All new.  Fatique and in bed dizzy and leg weakness. symptoms. Doctors look at blood and always give the least serious cause. I have ask more more extensive test. Still working on it. But it is wearing me out. Thank you All for your help. 

 

po18guy
Posts: 993
Joined: Nov 2011

Eczema and psoriasis are skin-related autoimmune diseases, and both can produce these manifestations in the nails. Frankly, I had not heard of them being associated with cancer. If I were you, I would be leaning toward an autoimmune condition, as they are more common than most folks expect. Arthritis? Autoimmune. Eczema? Same thing. Crohn's? Lupus? Same thing. Nearly all skin and joint problems relate in some way to autoimmune conditions. Same with intestinal probelms, various organ malfunctions, even eye trouble. Our immune systems are unbelievably complex and powerful. For example, if we turn my immune system loose, there is a good chance that it will kill me, since it is a transplanted immune system. They are an incredibly powerful and even fearful defense against many pathogens.  

Rocquie's picture
Rocquie
Posts: 829
Joined: Mar 2013

I had a different type of lines on my nails, called Beau's Lines.

They were pale bands that went from side to side across my nails. They are growth arrest lines caused by a decrease of blood flow to the nail matrix. I got one each time I had chemo. By the time my treatment was finished, the lines could be counted like the rings on a tree to see how many treatments of R-CHOP I had. The lines started growing out as soon as treatment was over and now my nails are perfectly normal. Weird.

They never caused me any distress at all. In fact, I was very intrigued by this side-effect I have never seen listed anywhere.

Cheer,

Rocquie

 

Evarista
Posts: 256
Joined: May 2017

Muerhrcke's lines are another possibility.  But as Po indicates, these things are not diagnostic.  As he says, evalutation by a good rheumatologist/immunologist might be a good idea.

Fluffydog63
Posts: 27
Joined: Jul 2017

Rocquie thank you for the pic. I will try to upload mine if I can figure out how. Yours do look more like Muerhrcke lines. Did they have ridges?  Or were they just flat? Is is good that people are responding since doctors don't know or care much about this being something that can show up befor or after chemo treatment. Saw another doctor today. He had to Gooogle them. How did you upload pic? Anyone else have them before diagnosis. alnust have to look in very good light to see them. I really didn't see mine until I went out side and looked down. Anyway any answerS or information on these would be helpful. I just found out i may have nose cancer after MRI. Want to finally biopsy and I have a lump. so may do surgery. So scared. maybe the mees do mean something.  Thank again.

PBL
Posts: 182
Joined: Jul 2016

I too had Beau's lines like Rocquie. One white band for each chemo cycle... Actually, they're such an insignificant side effect that they're not often mentioned. My first dose literally blew my left big toenail off its bed! The hematologist advised me to tape it in place - which I did for nearly a year, till it had grown sufficiently to be cut off. It's now nearly back to normal - slightly deformed. Small price to pay for chemo to potentially add years to your life - but that's another topic altogether.

The fact is that nail anomalies are a good indicator of health problems to whoever has the proper training to identify them - but these can range from minor and insignificant, to major issues.

A dermatologist should normally have been able to name whatever anomalies were displayed in your case. Which brings me back to my original question, Fluffydog63: how did you get that specific diagnosis?

My point here is something I have been reflecting upon for quite a while now, if you'll all allow me to state it.

A disclaimer first: this is a delicate subject, and what I want to express is not aimed at anyone in particular and, in fact, arises from my deep sympathy for everyone who feels the need to seek reassurance about their health. I hope I am not too clumsy in phrasing it. Here goes:

It seems to me that not a week goes by without someone new to this forum posting about a whole array of symptoms they've been experiencing. They have googled those, and freaked themselves out. Sometimes, they have been going around to multiple doctors and feel they have not received adequate attention from those professionals. I can totally relate to that.

More often than not, however, that person will simply disappear from the forum after exchanging a couple of posts. Maybe they have just posted in a moment of panic, and got a grip. Possibly, they feel embarrassed for having had a public moment's weakness. Or, they have finally obtained a solid diagnosis from a doctor, and it's not relevant to this lymphoma forum, so they've just moved on.

Whatever the reason for their vanishing from the forum, I think it is a pity. Assuming that, in most cases, it was something minor, I believe it could be a great help to the next undiagnosed person who comes here to be able to read such messages as "Phew! I was scared, but it turns out it was ... and I am now moving on". And whatever the final diagnosis, it can be of interest to everyone who reads those messages of conclusion - a means of contributing in their turn.

I hope my message contributes (more adequately than rating stars...) to improving this indispensable forum.

Now that I've expressed these general considerations, let me end by wishing Fluffydog63 the mildest possible diagnosis.

Kind regards to all.

PBL

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3278
Joined: May 2012

PBL,

You beautifully and tactifully described precisely how I have felt forever.  Besides people who seemed movitated by a bit of neurosis (there have been many dozens of these over the years), there is another common phenomenon among people who say that they have actually received confirmation of Lymphoma via biopsy:  The person who joins, writes, describes what strain they have been diagnosed with, and then never return....  I don't get it, but that is just my way of interacting with people.

Like you, PBL, I am referring to no specific individuals, but will state explicitly that I absolutely am NOT referring to anyone in this current thread.

Granted, this is a public and free site.  I hope every visitor gets exactly what they need from it, noting more or less. Why any other individual is ever here or not is of course their private affair.

max

Rocquie's picture
Rocquie
Posts: 829
Joined: Mar 2013

Thank you, PBL, for so eloquently stating some of my own thoughts and feelings. I have often thought of starting a discussion on the topic but I didn't know if anyone else felt the same. And I was unsure I could be a tactful as you.

If someone would start a thread (hint hint) I would certainly join in the discussion.

Rocquie

 

PBL
Posts: 182
Joined: Jul 2016

Thank you for your words of encouragement.

I am not quite sure a discussion thread on that particular topic would lead us anywhere, but I will give it some more thought...

PBL

Evarista
Posts: 256
Joined: May 2017

Just to add that I had similar lines AFTER chemo, but don't know if they were there before.  My nail are currently a total mess (12 weeks since last R-EPOCH). Brittle, ridged, peeling from the surface, and I only hope that I can prevent their coming off altogether.  Toenails mostly OK, except one big one coming off.  Good luck with the biopsy.

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3278
Joined: May 2012

Evarista,

Six months of R-ABVD left my toe nails black underneath, and very "grainy": rubbing them caused the ends to break off.  It took a long time for normal coloration to return.

My skin must have looked bad also. I ran into a teacher one night when picking up a kid from school, a couple months after chemo ended. He did not see me often and volunteered,  "You look good! You're not grey-colored any more !"  And my kids around the same time were talking about what the "chemo experience" had been like at dinner. My daughter chimed in with, "We're glad you don't stink like chemicals any more !"    I had never been aware of looking "grey" or "smelling."

max

Evarista
Posts: 256
Joined: May 2017

I noticed that mosquitoes would not land on me & the dog kept her distance too in the weeks after chemo.  I could even smell the chemo on myself, the bedding, etc.

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3278
Joined: May 2012

I never noticed an odor myself, but smokers don't often realize how they smell due to acclimation. My wife, who has a hypersensitive nose, never said anything, perhaps out of thoughtfulness.

I do recall in the later months of treatment having an odd, recurrent thought: I felt like my blood had been replaced by lighter fluid, some flammable chemical. Perhaps my nose was telling me that I did in fact smell like the Dow Chemical facility we sometimes drive past !

max

yesyes2
Posts: 583
Joined: Jul 2009

Evarista, I noticed the same thing, mosquitoes would start to come near me and than turn away.  I had a house rabbit at the time of my first chemo and it was the only time he liked to lick my hands and arms.  I figured it was the chemo smell.

I lost my nails both times I have received chemo.  First on CMF for breast cancer and than RCHOP.  They became very brittle and toe nails finally fell off.  Seven years later and I still have problems with the large toe nails.

Fluffydog63
Posts: 27
Joined: Jul 2017

I don't know and 4 doctors don't really know what the lines on my toes are. I now have matching ones on feet baby toes now. All I know is that I have been in bed for 6 months and have lost 60 pounds and am weak and can't walk well. finally went to an oncologist who believed that I am sick. He immediately ordereed PET CT SCAN but insurance won't pay. So in 3 days I am having it done and paying for it. and I hope will get some answers. One doctor told me he would give me the tires off his truck if anything was wrong. I have night sweats and doctors explain away as nothing but I know how I feel and I know mees lines could be nothing but with everything else going on it's just another symptom in the big picture. I want a diagnoses but have not been as fortunate as some to find many good doctors Who will listen in the 10 minutes they see me.  They explain my suspicious blood work as nothing and also my symptoms. They are happy to give me Antidepressants which I have tried and still I am sick. I find comfort from this forum and the hope it brings in getting a diagnosis. Although I am so sad to read stories of cancer. I know symptoms almost have to be so obvious that doctors can't ignore them. I thank everyone for Your understanding and I hope I get those tires but I know how I feel and I am really sick. I want my life back even if it mean going thru what all of the people on this forum have gone thru. Am I stressed out? You bet I am. This has been very hard. But I will keep trying to get answers. I didn't think it would ever take this long. I know people suffer for a long time before diagnosis I just didn't want to be one of them. But I thank every. 

lindary's picture
lindary
Posts: 641
Joined: Mar 2015

A little off subject here. There is an article in this months Consumer Report magazine about doctors and medications. Several times they bring up doctors who hear you talk and then prescribe something. It's a long article and very interesting. The high point was that some Drs have decided they are going to look for solutions for paitients other than giving some drug. They are not anti-medicatiosn Drs but agree that people are often taking too many drugs.  

Fluffydog63

I hope the results give you answers so the Drs can give you the treatment you need.  

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