Diet and lifestyle

hewhositsoncushions
hewhositsoncushions Member Posts: 402 Member

Hi all

Thought I would start adding back rather than taking so here goes Cool

I was talking to my dietician friend and she suggested that a diet biased towards alkali would me more conducive to recovery as cancer thrives in an acidic environment.

I have also seen it suggested that cutting out red meat with the logical extreme being going vegetarian / vegan is a good idea.

Alchohol is clearly a no no.

It seems I need to eat broccoli until it comes out of my ears and tomato juice too (need to research what type).

Vitamins are more complex as it seems there are contraindications for some. Will dig further and post.

Calorie restriction and weight loss is important, so is exercise and mental well being.

What other thgughts can you folks add?

Cushions

«1

Comments

  • Clevelandguy
    Clevelandguy Member Posts: 750 Member
    Tomato Juice?

    Hi,

    Tomato juice is highly acidic which is different than alkali?   PH 7 and  below is acidic, 7 and above alkali.  Any good diet should help your body heal but I don't know of a diet that will cure or prevent cancer.  If that was so we would all be doing it.

    Dave 3+4

  • hewhositsoncushions
    hewhositsoncushions Member Posts: 402 Member
    Hmmmm

    Hmmmm

    Lots of conflicting information out there.

    I know tomatoes are specifically supposed to be good if prepped right.

    As for the alkaline diet - I heard of it, not convinced, just looking into it.

    As for the rest, I agree - clean diet is a help not a cure.

    Cushions

  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,013 Member
    edited May 2017 #4
    UCSF -- Nutrition and Prostate Cancer

    If you're concerned about your diet,  the best complilation of research that I have ever seen is provided in a paper published by UCSF aptly titled: Nutrition and Prostate Cancer, which you can find here:

    http://cancer.ucsf.edu/_docs/crc/nutrition_prostate.pdf

    I met and had a consultation w/the author of the paper when I initally contacted UCSF for treatment back in 2010.  I found the info interesting but the only thing that I did based on the info provided was to stop taking calcium supplements.  I otherwise just eat a generally heart healthy/low fat diet that is bascially what is recommended anyway.

     

  • Grinder
    Grinder Member Posts: 487 Member
    Vegan warning

    Just a warning to anyone wanting to go total vegan. I went vegan for several years, and developed a mild dairy intolerance. Probiotics have not helped, my gastro intestinal system does not react well to dairy. Its like a respiratory allergy causes coughing and mucous production, my GI system does the same thing reacting to dairy as an allergen. And I am not the only vegan to report this. Its not life threatening or anything, just a nuisance the same way a respiratory allergy is a nuisance during pollen season or around cat dander. Small amounts in baked goods are ok, but cheese, milk, etc. cause a reaction. Now I only drink unsweetened almond milk. Its not lactose intolerance either, its anything cow milk, but I don't know about goats milk or?

  • GeneRose1
    GeneRose1 Member Posts: 64
    Stop Taking Calcium Supplements?

    This is a really interesting thread. I've been trying to improve my diet, shed weight, and give my body as much support as possible to fight this disease. I've also read about cancer thriving in an acidic environment & have tried to adjust by dramatically cutting down on red meat, pork, & dairy products. I gave up sweets & booze a long time ago and now try to have one green leafy vegetable, usually spinich, with every meal. Instead of cow's milk, I now drink unsweetened almond milk. I also drink a Green Juice Supplement called Organifi that I take with apple cider vinegar. I'm very puzzled about the calcium supplement comment. I've been taking large doses of it every day since my radiation treatments two years ago. Am I doing more harm than good?

  • hewhositsoncushions
    hewhositsoncushions Member Posts: 402 Member
    What I have found so far

    HI Gene

    I did some digging into supplements in regard to PCa and it does appear complex.

    I did some initial digging but I've had to process a huge amount of information this last week so hopefully some of the more experienced guys can add value.

    I've included an official USG medical link (there are probably tons of research papers as well but as a newbie I am hesitant to go there as they are just that, research and may be misleading).

    https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/hp/prostate-supplements-pdq

    From this and other sites ...

    (Possibly) Good

    • Green Tea
    • Lycopene (plants and various fruits and vegetables, including tomatoes, apricots, guavas, and watermelon best with good dietary fat)
    • Modified citrus protein
    • Pomegranite
    • Soy
    • Vitamin D (and sunlight!!!!!)
    • Cruciferous vegetables (all vegetables and fruit considered good)
    • POMI-T
    • Zyflamend
    • Turmeric
    • Fish (high in Omega 3 but rotate to avoind

    (Probably) Bad

    • Alchohol
    • Calcium
    • Selenium
    • Vitamin E
    • Meats (especially red but apparantly chicken has more growth hormones in which is bad)

    I intend to live on things like brocolli, tomato and turmeric soup for lunch and snacks from now on!

    Also regardless, obesity is bad so diet and exercise is key!!!!

    Caveat Emptor!

    Feedback from others would be great.

    C

     

  • GeneRose1
    GeneRose1 Member Posts: 64
    Calcium Supplements

    C, I'm going to take this up with my Medical Oncologist and PCM and get their takes. I know that radiation weakens bones and that since my PCa has moved into my spine and hips and is probably doing a lot of damage there, I should do SOMETHING to try and keep them as strong as possible and help them recover. That's what I thought calcium does & I take 1200mg of it every day. Is it possible that we're looking at this from different perspectives with you being more concerned with overall health and diet & me being focused on bone metastases? Interesting when you mention tumeric. A bottle of tumeric supplements came with my Organifi Green Juice mix and I haven't started it yet. That might possibly be a replacement for the calcium supplements. Like you, I would like to hear from others in our group on this.

  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,013 Member
    edited May 2017 #9
    GeneRose1 said:

    Calcium Supplements

    C, I'm going to take this up with my Medical Oncologist and PCM and get their takes. I know that radiation weakens bones and that since my PCa has moved into my spine and hips and is probably doing a lot of damage there, I should do SOMETHING to try and keep them as strong as possible and help them recover. That's what I thought calcium does & I take 1200mg of it every day. Is it possible that we're looking at this from different perspectives with you being more concerned with overall health and diet & me being focused on bone metastases? Interesting when you mention tumeric. A bottle of tumeric supplements came with my Organifi Green Juice mix and I haven't started it yet. That might possibly be a replacement for the calcium supplements. Like you, I would like to hear from others in our group on this.

    Read pages 14-15 of the UCSF study regarding the taking of excessive calcium supplements and it's link to prostate cancer.

    http://cancer.ucsf.edu/_docs/crc/nutrition_prostate.pdf

    That's why I stopped taking them when I was 1st diagnosed w/prostate cancer but it was kinda like shutting the barn door after the horses already got out.  Just did so to prevent feeding the cancer additionally w/calcium if there was indeed a link.

    As the nutritionist and my doctor both said, you are probably already getting sufficient calcium from your diet and don't really need to take more unless there is some other medical condition (like osteoprosis) that requires it but even then, if you are at risk for prostate cancer, you still might want to avoid taking in excessive amounts.

    The 1992 China Study in which the author recommended the elimination of all sources of animal protein in lieu of a vegan diet (a recommendation that has been largely criticized and debunked) also provided some evidence of an apparent link between calcium intake and cancer, which has been taken seriously by various organizations including the American Institute for Cancer Research.

    See: http://www.aicr.org/about/advocacy/the-china-study.html

     

  • hewhositsoncushions
    hewhositsoncushions Member Posts: 402 Member
    Thanks for the additional

    Thanks for the additional information amd comment.

    One to add - pomegranate juice. Expensive but damn nice (shame you can't have it with gin :))

     

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    Additional information

    Lycopene....it was said that lyopene prevented prostate cancer, but recent studies have proven this wrong. Eventhough tomatoe sauce has lots of lycopene it is not necessary to eat to prevent prostate cancer,,,,,,however, tomatoes (concentrated tomato sauce) ,  watermelon, etc are fine to have in a heart healty diet.

    pomogranate juice..also good for you, however other juices are equally as good....probably better to diretly eat  fruits and veggies versus juices...weight and sugar control.

    As far as the book, "the china study" by t. colin campbell, I found it to be informative, and follow his advice. There have been those who made negative statements about this research, but in my opinion it has been refudiated. There is a dvd, "FORKSoverKnives" that talk to vegan based diet being heart healthy. It is avaiable at NetFlicks or your public library. It will take less thsn an hour to view.

    Since I was diagnosed , i do not eat dairy or meats....i do eat a small amount of fish along with fruits, veggies and grains.  Since heart disease is epidemic, it is wise to eat heart healthy since we who have been diagnosed with prostate cancer are more likely to die from heart disease than prostate cancer....."heart healthy is prostate cancer healthy". ....Others at this discussion site eat a more moderate mediterranean

  • hewhositsoncushions
    hewhositsoncushions Member Posts: 402 Member
    edited May 2017 #12

    Additional information

    Lycopene....it was said that lyopene prevented prostate cancer, but recent studies have proven this wrong. Eventhough tomatoe sauce has lots of lycopene it is not necessary to eat to prevent prostate cancer,,,,,,however, tomatoes (concentrated tomato sauce) ,  watermelon, etc are fine to have in a heart healty diet.

    pomogranate juice..also good for you, however other juices are equally as good....probably better to diretly eat  fruits and veggies versus juices...weight and sugar control.

    As far as the book, "the china study" by t. colin campbell, I found it to be informative, and follow his advice. There have been those who made negative statements about this research, but in my opinion it has been refudiated. There is a dvd, "FORKSoverKnives" that talk to vegan based diet being heart healthy. It is avaiable at NetFlicks or your public library. It will take less thsn an hour to view.

    Since I was diagnosed , i do not eat dairy or meats....i do eat a small amount of fish along with fruits, veggies and grains.  Since heart disease is epidemic, it is wise to eat heart healthy since we who have been diagnosed with prostate cancer are more likely to die from heart disease than prostate cancer....."heart healthy is prostate cancer healthy". ....Others at this discussion site eat a more moderate mediterranean

    It's a nightmare keeping up

    It's a nightmare keeping up with the ebb and flow of research. My approach is that as long as it is healthy and not contra-indicated, you might as well give it a shot because like you said, if nothing else you get a healthy diet!

  • Grinder
    Grinder Member Posts: 487 Member
    Calcium

    If anyone is concerned about calcium intake, be cautious of tricalcium phosphate, an additive that increases the calcium levels in vegan products to more mimic typical calcium content in dairy products. As an additive it's harmless and does work similarly to organic calcium, but if calcium in general is a problem, watch the nutrition labels and ingredients for it. Almond milk is a good example. Most have 45% of the RDA for calcium in only 8 ounces, but some only have 10% in 8 ounces. I drink way more than just 8 ounces per day, so I always opt for the lower amount. Add that to other vegan products and foods with naturally occurring calcium and that is a LOT for anyone trying to limit calcium intake for whatever reason.

  • FinishingGrace
    FinishingGrace Member Posts: 82
    I just read those two pages

    I just read those two pages from the study that SwingShift posted. 

    It seems that the increased risk of prostate cancer is directly related to higher intake of dairy products and higher calcium levels - but only if the calcium came from dairy products.

    It also seemed like this leads to an increased risk of getting prostate cancer, but I didn't see a direct relationship to higher calcium levels or high intake of dairy being a problem for someone who already has it. Not that it isn't common sense to not take something that might CAUSE the cancer in the first place. Did I miss something in my reading?

    Do you guys think that men (generally speaking) should work to significantly decrease dairy foods in their diet? That's what is seems like to me...

  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,013 Member
    edited May 2017 #15

    I just read those two pages

    I just read those two pages from the study that SwingShift posted. 

    It seems that the increased risk of prostate cancer is directly related to higher intake of dairy products and higher calcium levels - but only if the calcium came from dairy products.

    It also seemed like this leads to an increased risk of getting prostate cancer, but I didn't see a direct relationship to higher calcium levels or high intake of dairy being a problem for someone who already has it. Not that it isn't common sense to not take something that might CAUSE the cancer in the first place. Did I miss something in my reading?

    Do you guys think that men (generally speaking) should work to significantly decrease dairy foods in their diet? That's what is seems like to me...

    Do you mean BEFORE they are diagnosed w/ prostate cancer? 

    Perhaps but I don't think the dairy-cancer connectino is clear enough to require it.   Certainly can't hurt provided enough calcium is being acquired otherwise but not essential in my personal opinion.

  • hewhositsoncushions
    hewhositsoncushions Member Posts: 402 Member

    Do you mean BEFORE they are diagnosed w/ prostate cancer? 

    Perhaps but I don't think the dairy-cancer connectino is clear enough to require it.   Certainly can't hurt provided enough calcium is being acquired otherwise but not essential in my personal opinion.

    I Googled. The second item

    I Googled. The second item was from the Daily Mail so I skipped right on past that bad boy :)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3448410/ further down and others suggest  that supplementation has little to no effect on BMD and possibly raises the risk of heart disease and advanced PCa.

    Caveat emptor but I would stick to steering clear of dairy / calcium and just make sure you diet hits your micros the old fashioned way.

    Can't remember if I mentioned before but the exception to this is Whey Protein which appears to be good for PCa (A hearty Wheymen to those here who do or did worship Brodin at the Iron Temple like I did until Broki attacked me with his Gainz Goblinz of PCa and high stress panic attacks :))

    C

  • FinishingGrace
    FinishingGrace Member Posts: 82

    Do you mean BEFORE they are diagnosed w/ prostate cancer? 

    Perhaps but I don't think the dairy-cancer connectino is clear enough to require it.   Certainly can't hurt provided enough calcium is being acquired otherwise but not essential in my personal opinion.

    That's how I read it

    The report seemed to say calcium in dairy products increases the chance you will get prostate cancer. It wasn't clear to me that consuming calcium through dairy is bad once you've already been diagnosed.

     

  • GeneRose1
    GeneRose1 Member Posts: 64
    edited May 2017 #18
    Calcium

    Great! Add this to the "things my Urologist & Oncologists never told me" file.  If it's possible that the massive amounts of calcium I take every day are actually helping my PCa, then I'd better stop immediately.

  • hewhositsoncushions
    hewhositsoncushions Member Posts: 402 Member
    edited May 2017 #19
    GeneRose1 said:

    Calcium

    Great! Add this to the "things my Urologist & Oncologists never told me" file.  If it's possible that the massive amounts of calcium I take every day are actually helping my PCa, then I'd better stop immediately.

    Gene

    Gene

    I suggest you do some more digging and talk to your specialists and maybe a dietician.

    It is hilarious how inconsistent some of this is.

    I just bought a reputable PCa cook book (their Thai Green Curry is awesome!) BUT they tout the benefits of selenium which I have seen reported as a no no.

    I think the take away from this is research, research and more research and try and balance maintstream information with the outlying stuff from medical research (usually unproven or indeterminate in reality) and holistic medicine.

    What I would love to see is a forum dedicated to cancer diets to bring it into focus and provide verified information.

    C

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    "t was once thought that

    "t was once thought that taking vitamin E could reduce the risk of prostate cancer. ... Back in 2008 one large study, known as the Selenium and Vitamin E CancerPrevention Trial (SELECT), showed that not only did vitamin E fail to decrease the risk of prostate cancer — it may have increased the risk instead.



    Vitamin E may indeed increase the risk of prostate cancer - Harvard ...


    www.harvardprostateknowledge.org/vitamin-e-may-indeed-increase-the-risk-of-prostate..."

     

    The select test done among 35,000 men was stopped midway, since there was indication that the risk of prostate cancer was increased as a result of taking larger doses of vitamin e and selenium

     

    There is a doctor, Dr. Mark Moyad, who has published several books on diet and life style....he also contributes to several publications focused on prostate cancer. He also lectures extensively....He is an experts extert on the subject.




  • GeneRose1
    GeneRose1 Member Posts: 64
    PCa Cook Book

    C, Would you please pass along the title and author of your PCa Cook Book? It sounds great & I'd like to order a copy. Thanks/Gene