1.5T vs 3 T mp-MRI rationale

xNTP
xNTP Member Posts: 38
edited December 2016 in Prostate Cancer #1

Both places, A and B, have had  3T MRI machines.   The first urologist I went to in A uses a 1.5T MRI.  Now I am finding prostate patients can't get the 3T mp-MRI at location B either.  What gives?  

I am scheduled this week for.... the 1.5T, and not totally happy about it.  Talking with a tech in passing, he thought all prostate patients were still referred for the 3T MRI.  Any thoughts about recent developments or decisions in the MRI world about this?

Is the 1.5 favored for throughput and less hassle on mystery metal implants than 3T?

Is there a diagnostic preference on cancer grades between 1.5T and 3 T that papers indicate now?

Others? 

Kinda steamed.

Comments

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    edited December 2016 #2
    .

    The 3T MRI uses a more powerful magnet than the 1.5, and thus provides greater resolutions. The 3T provides the greatest resolution in clinical use.

    Metal implants prohibit MRI's    see http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=safety-mr 

    You probably did in a different thread, but please indicate the reason for the MRI at this time, and your history.

    PS Your previous thread

    http://csn.cancer.org/node/306424

    Please stay with one thread, so it is easier to follow your situation

     

     

     

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,495 Member
    1.5T vs 3 T mp-MRI rationale

    You can find details on your inquire in here;

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/551885

     

  • xNTP
    xNTP Member Posts: 38
    edited December 2016 #4
    MRI ratings

    The metal's specifics are important.    Many implant products are approved for 1.5T, 3T some even 7T MRI.  

    I have a ~10 mm post (wire) alloy in a root canal, about 5 yrs old.  Trying to get more detail.

  • Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3
    Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3 Member Posts: 3,721 Member
    xNTP said:

    MRI ratings

    The metal's specifics are important.    Many implant products are approved for 1.5T, 3T some even 7T MRI.  

    I have a ~10 mm post (wire) alloy in a root canal, about 5 yrs old.  Trying to get more detail.

    Metal

    I have a titanium rod from my hip socket to my knee totally filling the femur interior, transverse screws above the knee, and a foot of surgical wire (unknown material) wrapped around my hip socket, and none of it affected an MRI of my abdominal region. Of course, titanium is non-magnetic.

    I have never tripped an airport metal detector.  I myself used to "wand" people entrering high-security government facilities, and the wand also has never detected any trace of metal in my body, despite myself wanding the prostesis area all over, less than an inch from my clothing.

    It is difficult for me to imagine that an MRI of the pelvic region would cause issues with a bit of wire alloy in a tooth, but I claim no expertise with MRIs. Finding out the composition of the wire is advisable I suppose, and the information should be in your medical records or easily attainable from the dentist.

    Heart and ear implants are routinely warned agains as high-risk devices, counterindicating MRI in most cases.

     

    .

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    xNTP said:

    MRI ratings

    The metal's specifics are important.    Many implant products are approved for 1.5T, 3T some even 7T MRI.  

    I have a ~10 mm post (wire) alloy in a root canal, about 5 yrs old.  Trying to get more detail.

    call a facility that does MRI

    ......but when I have a prostate MRI, my head is on the edge of the machine, and I am able to see into the room

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,495 Member
    edited December 2016 #7
    Me too, Lol

    Hopeful,

    I laughed at your comment. I also stretch up the maximum pushing up my head out of the cylinder and see backwards. Maybe I manage to be two inches taller at the stretcher. I used to have annual followup MRIs in the initial 6 years and never had that claustrophobic feel till the day I accompanied my wife for her section. She is "superlative" in claustrophobia and I caught the virus. I struggle ever since.

     

  • Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3
    Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3 Member Posts: 3,721 Member
    Claustrophobia

    As most of you know, I was a sub sailor for many years: Fast attack boats, which are much smaller than ICBM platforms.   No claustrophobia there. 

    Volunteers are tested at length specifically for claustrophobia.  One test was combined, testing for the ability to equalize one's ears and claustrophobia.   We entered a small tank, that looked exactly like the propane tanks people use to have in their back yards for heating fuel.  It was a cylinder about 5' high, and maybe 10' long.   There were bleacher-like benches welded to the sides inside, and we packed about 16 guys in there at once.  The hatch was then sealed, and high pressure air introduced to verify that everyone's ear drums would not burst.  For part of the time, the lights were turned off.  Anyone who did not equalize was sent to the surface fleet.

    'Escape chamber' training was another test for claustrophobia.  A water tower, cyliinder in shape, maybe 75' tall and 15 feet in diameter. A sub escape chamber was welded to the bottom of the tower.  These things are tiny, and spherical in shape. I am guessing from memory, but I would say maybe 8 feet in diameter. 

    A group of maybe ten men would enter at once, chamber sealed. It was very nearly dark inside, except for a low-wattage, DC, waterproof light.  The chamber was then flooded, up to the bottom of our necks, had to tilt head back to breath at all.  Everyone is crammed together at the very top of the chamber, the escapse hatch was then opened, and guys went out one at a time, to ascend to the top of the tower, which I beleive was at least 50 feet from the exit. Anyone who paniced at any time went to the surface fleet.  We were taught a breathing technique to use while ascending (we had hoods on) to prevent the bends.

    We used to pull in to foreign ports and occasionally allow tours of some areas on the boat.    I saw a civilian once begin to descend the access hatch and go into some sort of shock or frantic panic, almost a psychotic episode.   We had to get him across to the pier and call EMS .

    A standard US/NATO torpedo tube diameter for decades has been exactly 21 inches.   Guys gain bragging rights (but nothing else) by entering the tube head first, turning around INSIDE THE tube, and emerging head first back into the torpedo room.   It requires a small stature and extreme flexibility, obviously.  I never saw but one guy do it successfully, a junior officer, about 5'7" in height.  I never attempted it myself.  Any guy how got stuck had to be dragged out by the feet or leg.  A scan has never given me problems !

    Sub School New London's new tower (Groton CT is the ONLY sub school in the US Navy.)   The escape chamber today is much larger. We did not have the suits at all, a newer technology.  A commentator farther down the article mentions his time in the old tower.

    http://www.theday.com/article/20100925/NWS09/309259939

    max

    .

  • Old Salt
    Old Salt Member Posts: 899 Member
    edited December 2016 #9

    Claustrophobia

    As most of you know, I was a sub sailor for many years: Fast attack boats, which are much smaller than ICBM platforms.   No claustrophobia there. 

    Volunteers are tested at length specifically for claustrophobia.  One test was combined, testing for the ability to equalize one's ears and claustrophobia.   We entered a small tank, that looked exactly like the propane tanks people use to have in their back yards for heating fuel.  It was a cylinder about 5' high, and maybe 10' long.   There were bleacher-like benches welded to the sides inside, and we packed about 16 guys in there at once.  The hatch was then sealed, and high pressure air introduced to verify that everyone's ear drums would not burst.  For part of the time, the lights were turned off.  Anyone who did not equalize was sent to the surface fleet.

    'Escape chamber' training was another test for claustrophobia.  A water tower, cyliinder in shape, maybe 75' tall and 15 feet in diameter. A sub escape chamber was welded to the bottom of the tower.  These things are tiny, and spherical in shape. I am guessing from memory, but I would say maybe 8 feet in diameter. 

    A group of maybe ten men would enter at once, chamber sealed. It was very nearly dark inside, except for a low-wattage, DC, waterproof light.  The chamber was then flooded, up to the bottom of our necks, had to tilt head back to breath at all.  Everyone is crammed together at the very top of the chamber, the escapse hatch was then opened, and guys went out one at a time, to ascend to the top of the tower, which I beleive was at least 50 feet from the exit. Anyone who paniced at any time went to the surface fleet.  We were taught a breathing technique to use while ascending (we had hoods on) to prevent the bends.

    We used to pull in to foreign ports and occasionally allow tours of some areas on the boat.    I saw a civilian once begin to descend the access hatch and go into some sort of shock or frantic panic, almost a psychotic episode.   We had to get him across to the pier and call EMS .

    A standard US/NATO torpedo tube diameter for decades has been exactly 21 inches.   Guys gain bragging rights (but nothing else) by entering the tube head first, turning around INSIDE THE tube, and emerging head first back into the torpedo room.   It requires a small stature and extreme flexibility, obviously.  I never saw but one guy do it successfully, a junior officer, about 5'7" in height.  I never attempted it myself.  Any guy how got stuck had to be dragged out by the feet or leg.  A scan has never given me problems !

    Sub School New London's new tower (Groton CT is the ONLY sub school in the US Navy.)   The escape chamber today is much larger. We did not have the suits at all, a newer technology.  A commentator farther down the article mentions his time in the old tower.

    http://www.theday.com/article/20100925/NWS09/309259939

    max

    .

    The things

    I learn on this forum...

    Smile

  • xNTP
    xNTP Member Posts: 38
    done

    I got the 3T mp-MRI with spec and Gadovist contrast, late last week.  Apparently some miscommunication on mp-MRI with two 3T devices on two different campuses.  Fully paid by insurance, approval in 2 minutes.  Only sticker is small total coverage if push comes to shove...

    Radiology originally said MRI would run ~1 hr 45 mins.  At 3 hours, "Sorry...want to take a few more images... "  Call it 3.3 hours feeling like the goose stuck in a jet engine intake.

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,495 Member
    Hope you do not become a member of this club

    I think you doing well in exploring all possible ways for diagnosing choosing the best. This MRI is the beginning in the process of your stepped diagnosis. It will help in identifying suspicious deformations/lesions that can be biopsied later for final conclusions. A negative result may turn your case worrisome if you do not find a justification for the high PSA.

    Here is your (story) previous thread;

    https://csn.cancer.org/node/306159

    Best wishes for a good result.

    VG