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hwalker67
Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 2016
Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3274
Joined: May 2012

Go build your class-action lawsuit somewhere else....your post is reprehensible, and dirties our site here. Little wonder that in America, garbage men are considered more ethical than lawyers.

"Probably" came from Roundup ? Based on what ?   Lymphoma, almost universally, is not linked to any "esposure" to anything.

po18guy
Posts: 991
Joined: Nov 2011

It is well known (or should be) that there is no substance, not even ionizing radiation, which absolutely causes cancer through a single, or occasional exposure. I suspect that you have been over on WhatNext listening to a certain anti-Roundup crusader there. I found those claims to be hysterical and patently unbelievable. Additonally, intentional use or misuse of any product, contrary to product safety labeling indicates only stupidity, not manufacturer liability. Manufacturers are liable if they do not provide safe use directions. We are liable if we willingly fail to follow directions.

If you do manage to construct a case, and do collect, how about donating 100% of the proceeds to blood cancer research? I mean, isn't that the purpose of this?

lindary's picture
lindary
Posts: 641
Joined: Mar 2015

I found it interesting that you claim you oncologist told you that your cancer was caused by being exposed to something that change things at a genetic level. I've been to Town Hall meetings and seminars with hgh level researchers on the blood cancers and the one thing they have always said  is that the causes are still unknown. 

Could Roundup have cause a person to end up with cancer. Maybe. But there are probably thousands of others who have used that product and don't have cancer. Just like the hoopla about deodorans & antiperspirants causing breast cancer, maybe some people did get their cancer that way. But if the numbers were pulled together I wouldn't be surprised if it was a very small fraction of 1% of the people who got breast cancer (female & male).

The only solid link to cancer is smoking and there is over 60 years of studies to prove that link. Of the dozens of people I know that smoke (or did smoke) only 1 got small cell lung cancer and did died from it. To me that shows that it is a combination of "things" that includes smoking which results in small cell lung cancer.

Yes I know some other "materials" have shown to cause cancer but I am not going to avoid drinking a soda now and then or using roundup in our yard like millions of others do. 

 

Anonymous user (not verified)

All it takes to get lymphoma is one bad white blood cell. The immune system gets most of the damaged cells but occasionally one survives and clones itself. Then the clones do the same. And they refuse to die a normal cell death. Soon there are billions OF THEM. I really believe dumb luck plays a significant role in most cancers. This is not to say that something did not initially modify the DNA in that original lymphoma cell. A chemical could certainly do that but so could a stray cosmic ray that pentrates a plane you are flying in or many other things including genetic factors. Seems a specific chemical would cause a very specific mutation? Maybe. Due to litigious nature of our society, the only safe thing for the cancer industry to say is "no one knows for sure".

cutterofiron
Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 2017

I have been researching Roundup and cancer for a few weeks because a friend of mine has been suffering from NHL for years and he used Roundup every week for about 30 years before he was diagnosed. He owned a lot of property and routinely used Roundup around fruit trees, bushes, flowerbeds, and other places he tried to keep clear of weeds and grass. No one in his family has ever had NHL. I believe the Roundup lawsuits are simply about a failure to warn. Just as cigarette and other tobacco smoke, conclusively known to cause cancer, ultimately required cigarette manufacturers to warn of that danger, if Roundup can cause cancer, its packaging should be labeled to warn people of that risk. Some people would definitely be more careful using Roundup, and likely use it less often, if they knew it posed a risk of cancer. As for whether Roundup actually causes cancer, I do not know. I do know the California EPA has listed Roundup as a carcinogen and there are scientists in disagreement over the issue. Also, Monsanto admits it has not performed the requisite studies to prove Roundup is not a carcinogen. Why not just label Roundup with a warning that it is a possible carcinogen?  

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3274
Joined: May 2012

Cutterofiron,

Roundup make me sick too, indirectly. It happened just as I read your post. But, oh, it wasn't the Roundup, actually.

max

cutterofiron
Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 2017

Max, might I suggest counseling for you? Reading your posts on this blog reveals you to be quite angry. You even look angry in your picture. Maybe being a shill for Monsanto is making you angry and sick? All I am suggesting is that carcinogens be labeled with warnings, and if Roundup is a carcinogen, it should be labeled as such. If it is not a carcinogen, then it should not be labeled as such. Some scientists insist it does cause cancer while others insist it does not. If it does, label it accordingly, like tobacco. Is that so much to ask? When I was young in the 70s I worked in a lab testing petroleum, we routinely washed equipment with toluene and dipped beakers into drums of it up to our elbows. Toluene is a known carcinogen now. I wish someone had told me of that. It seems logical to warn others of that fact. The same applies for Roundup. I hope your demeanor improves. Life is better when you're not so angry at other people.

po18guy
Posts: 991
Joined: Nov 2011

You appear to be a very litigious, judgmental person. Please buy a web domain and continue your agenda elsewhere. Best of luck since all herbicides have warning on the packaging - you just have to read it and follow the cautions about skin contact. What about those who got lymphoma before Roundup existed? What about the most aggressive lymphoma on earth - which is endemic to western Africa. Is that Roundup too? Give us a break.

cutterofiron
Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 2017

This is my quote making my point, and you believe it to be judgmental: "if Roundup is a carcinogen, it should be labeled as such. If it is not a carcinogen, then it should not be labeled as such?" I'm not judgmental, merely observant, and you appear quite hostile to anyone wishing to discuss a possible link between Roundup and NHL. As for being litigiious, I have filed one lawsuit for myself in my entire life of 59 years, so you're wrong there as well.  

This thread is about Roundup and NHL. It was started by an attorney suffering from NHL who believes there may be a link between Roundup and NHL. Who is claiming all NHLs are caused by Roundup? Who is claiming West Africans suffer from NHL caused by Roundup? Not all small cell lung cancers are caused by tobacco smoke, but some definitely are. The same may be true for NHL and Roundup. NHL likely has many causes--no one really knows--but some, not all, of those illnesses may be caused by Roundup exposure. Why not discuss it? 

There are many, many threads on this site. Only one is about Roundup and NHL. If you are so offended by the topic, why not spend your time in another thread?

Sandy Ray's picture
Sandy Ray
Posts: 97
Joined: May 2017

You missed the joke but common mistake. The first guy you said looked angry was Max. The guy who asked how he looked is our resident Max twin. Guess that is why you think they both look angry. If you look at the name you will see it is 2 different people. Made me chuckle a little.

Hey I know you probably mean well. Says in your post it is your friend who has Lymphoma so not much in a lawsuit for you anyway. I have used lots of Roundup and yes I had Lymphoma. I will admit I did not read the 50 some pages that come with every bottle of roundup. I am smart enough to know it has some pretty nasty chemicals in it and I should use with caution. Pretty much feel that way about most poison. Even the Chemo they gave me to get rid of the Lymphoma. Yes if they know it causes cancer it should say . However you admit scientists disagree. Maybe it says it somewhere in all that paperwork. Some scientists somewhere probably say air causes cancer.

The real point is the reason for this forum is to help us cope with something that has changed our lives. Speaking as someone diagnosed with Lymphoma it really feels like this whole thread is out of place. I mentioned in an earlier post the lawyer who started this thread had no need to bring his concerns here unless he was looking for clients. Unless you live off grid if you have Lymphoma you will hear about the Roundup lawsuit. If you were to miss it on the news, or Facebook not to worry one or more of your friends or family will let you know. I speak from experience. This forum is not to band together to make someone pay. It is not even to make a company warn people of the dangers of its product. We are here to learn from and encourage each other in the path we are now connected with.

Your point is well taken on the labeling. The lawyer well he needs to start a blog or webpage somewhere else.

I know Max seemed a little harsh but believe me he spends countless hours on this site encouraging and educating people who either have Lymphoma or think they do. I have never met him but I consider him a great guy! He has been in remission for a long time and could have moved on but he stays around trying to encourage and help others. I think he and I must see this a lot a like. This is not the place for the roundup debate. 

Again please understand I do see your point about labeling and do not see you had any ill intentions. Definitely no way to gain from your comment. However after having been diagnosed I realized that sometimes people say things to people who have cancer that come across wrong way. One day I will write about what not to say. I just smile when people say some things because I know they are only trying to help. 

Sandy Ray

 

Sandy Ray's picture
Sandy Ray
Posts: 97
Joined: May 2017

Well yes I used round up! I was not sure how to word this without being totally offensive but.....

The purpose of this forum is not for lawyers to troll for business. I have been out of work for the most part since March. I watch way too much TV. What I have figured out is lawyers are placing ads Looking for customers in class action lawsuits for everything under the sun. Guess what sometimes bad things happen to good people and there is no one to blame. We are not on this site looking to make money off our illness. Yes I agree some lawsuits have merit. However, trolling websites like these looking for customers reminds me of the alarm company that called me 28 years ago by reading a police report that our house was broken into. Do not prey on people when they are most vulnerable and going through some of the toughest times of their life. Do I know if I got Lymphoma from Roundup? I have no clue. What I do know is there have been enough ads run by lawyers that friends  and family have told me several times about the lawsuit. If you want to drum up customers pay for the ads like the other guys. I do not have a lot of respect for them but at least they are not trying to get free advertising off this site.

I know I know it is only because you care about people. If you had spent the time to read the post on here you would find most on here are much more intelligent than to beleive that. Hey if you truly care then great! Go out and do what you need to do! Just do not take up the time of the people on this site. We have heard the claims and we can hire lawyers. While having law to protect ordinary citizens is a good thing. Just seems a little out of hand in our society. I mean we complain about drug prices and sue every drug company when someone has a reaction to a new drug. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. We want any chance to get better then if something goes wrong a battalion of lawyers descend to sue. I could write all night about this but i will get off my soapbox for now.

Sandy Ray

ShadyGuy
Posts: 386
Joined: Jan 2017

If you find a way to make money off being a cancer patient, please let me know. So far I am down about 1/2 mil on mine and am looking to recoup! 

lindary's picture
lindary
Posts: 641
Joined: Mar 2015

My 2 cents. We do not use round up yet I ended up with lyphoma. 

I'm wiht you Shady Guy!

 

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3274
Joined: May 2012

Linda,

I worked for years around nuclear warheads, in the general area of the ship's reactor, was the ship's Tritium Water monitoring officer (tritium is also known as "heavy water", and detectors must monitor for it to detect leaks).   In addition I have handled ruptured, old capacitors that contained raw PCB oil. I on a surface ship had a watchstation directly under the ship's navagational radar mast.

I investigated the safety of each of these things, and was required to always wear dose moitors on my belt.  I met a power company engineer once who said he used to walk in liquid PCB ankle-deep, and never had a health issue.  I have been recertified several times in Radiation Health.   Nuclear submarine sailors have had no higher rates of cancers than the general population since nuclear power became the norm in the late 1950s  (there is no such thing in the US Navy as a "non-nuclear" sub; the last one in the US [the USS Bonefish] that was diesel-powered was decommissioned in the early 1990s, and it was the only one in use for a few decades prior to its decommissioning).  Germany still builds diesel submarines, and a few smaller nations use them (Norway is one customer), but the major Navies of the world are nearly 100% nuclear in propulsion (US, England, France, Russia).

Among other things, I learned that the average crewmember of a submarine receives LESS overall radiation underway than a person outside in the summer, but this is mostly due to radically lower gamma levels that submariners receive.  The one exception is Russia: There safety systems were dramatically inferior, and they have had problems in decades past.  Otherwise, Submarine sailors are the most extensively studied population for radiation health in world history: massive numbers over decades.  But so many laypeople hear that a nuclear popwer plant may be built in their area and fall down in fear like cockroaches that have been sprayed with Raid.  So utterly ridiculous, so ignorant.

Some would say I should have died of cancer decades ago (I left the Navy in 1986) due to my various exposures, except that, as I noted, I was always well below known levels that become problematic.  Plus, most forms of radiation do not cause Lymphoma. Most radiation health emergencies lead to either Thyroid cancer short-term, or leukemias longer term.  I have studied the primary cancers regarded as potentially caused by Agent Orange, and lymphoma is not a leader (but it is on their list). Obviously, Agent Orange was distributed in a wartime environment, with no safeguards whatsoever.

The following states that studies show no increase in icidence of HL, NHL, or even leukemia between Agent Orange exposure, despite the massiveness of the dosing exposures.  The source of this article is the American Cancer Society -- the organization sponsoring this Board we are writing on.

 https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/agent-orange-and-cancer.html

I have used Roundup for decades, and in fact am headed to buy a gallon at Lowe's today, and use as directed (I also use breathing protection), it will not be an issue.  Bless your health and common sense,

max

po18guy
Posts: 991
Joined: Nov 2011

I know of no expsoure to anything that will 100% cause cancer. There are statistical trends, but many individuals with no known risk factors develop a cancer. Our bodies produce mutated, even malignant cells on a constant basis. Since cancer involves both a failure in our DNA as well as a failure of our immune system, that immune system may play a bigger role. Ah, but throw in the opportunity to be a victim of something or somone, get a legal firm on your side and it suddenly becomes an epic battle. Good vs. evil!

ShadyGuy
Posts: 386
Joined: Jan 2017

Unlike a criminal case, proof beyond a shadow of a doubt is not required. However I agree that there is no absolue proof that any particular thing caused a specific cancer in a specific individual. You look at trends and probabilities.

po18guy
Posts: 991
Joined: Nov 2011

A "preponderance of the evidence" is all that is needed to prevail in a civil lawsuit for damages. 51%

lindary's picture
lindary
Posts: 641
Joined: Mar 2015

The only cancer I can think of that comes close to fullfilling this is small-cell lung cancer. Not everyone who smokes gets it but something like 80-90% of the people who get it are smokers. 

I am sure that everyone know dozens of people who smoke. For me I only can think of 2 that ended up with lung cancer and both died. So it fails the test.

po18guy
Posts: 991
Joined: Nov 2011

The wife of a co-worker, non-smoker, developed non-small cell lung cancer for some reason. It metastasized to her brain and she fought valiantly, but ultimately lost the battle. As a teen, I knew an 80+ year old man who lived in a nearby "rest home." He smoked a pipe - had since he was 12, he said.

No rhyme or reason to any of this.

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3274
Joined: May 2012

Po,

My mom was one of 9 siblings, and the only one still living is currently 85:  A five-pack-a-day habit for decades. And she is still going storng, never a cancer of any form. When I was a kid my parents had these old, large, glass ash trays throughout the house, since both of my parents were chain smokers also.  When the aunt (my mom's sister) would come over, every two hours or so one of us kids had to empty those ash trays, the butts would be stacked so high..... Disguisting, I know, but neither parent or auntie eve had a cancer.  

The previous owner of my current house died in the house at 85 years of age, a chain smoker for life. He reportedly still push-mowed the front yard the week before his death.  His son sold us the house, and told me the whole house had to be painted to remove the smoking stench, but another example of a man beating the odds.

I know that all of these accounts are anecdotal, and prove nothing.  Well, except that popular opinion is worthless.  I never smoked, and never will,

don

po18guy
Posts: 991
Joined: Nov 2011

According to one opinion anyway. Mom and dad both smoked like chimneys. Mom sometimes had two smokes going in different rooms. She quit after a bad flu in her mid-40s. Dad quit when his heart acted up at 60. Mom died cancer free at 88, dad of lung and throat cancer at 66. Q: Did they put Roundup in cigarettes? Surprised

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3274
Joined: May 2012

Po,

Never been told I wasn't charming; well, except folks saying I remind them of Robert De Niro in Taxi DriverYou eh talkin' to me ? I know you not talkin' to me !

People who meet or speak to me say I am thoughtful, reflective, kind.   Getting run over by the car and crushed to death (spontaneously 'came back' at the scene), dying in ICU again 5 days later, and the years of rehab  (followed by the two cancers) left me not too chipper in appearance. After my pretty rough 6 months of R-ABVD, which left me with lung fibrosis and loss of 30% of my usable lung volume, I met a coworker at a remote site one day. This was a guy I hadn't seen in 7 months. We were not daily contacts, he averaged running in to me maybe 2 or three times a month.   When he saw me (about a month after ending chemo) he initially did not recognize me, and when I spoke and he did, he visibly staggered, could not believe how I looked.  I had two other similiar episodes, occasional contacts who honestly did not know who I was.

Toss in 7 major surguries in the last ten years, and what I feel like physically is difficult to convey.

Ad hominems like his simply mean a person has run out of  ideas anyway.

I'm prertty 'thick-skinned' also (it's from the scar tissue),

max

PeprmntPat55's picture
PeprmntPat55
Posts: 55
Joined: Aug 2016

I don't think either of you look angry.   Serious, maybe but not angry.  Cool

po18guy
Posts: 991
Joined: Nov 2011

I was just trying to look like Max. He has numerous reasons to look serious.

annangel's picture
annangel
Posts: 2
Joined: Jul 2017

Hey,I am new here first posting,I am going to see a surgeon july 27th 2017 about three enlarged Lymph nodes around right front stomach,this has been on going for year's ,just now it is effecting my quality of life,it has become so painful keep's me waking out of my sleep,i have to sleep on left front stomach due to pain lots of issues ,symtom's ect,Any one been through this here and how do they usually procede,i am hoping for them to do biopsy first,rather not cut them out unless there no good ,or if they are cancerous,though i would tell dr biopsy only then let me get few other opions to be sure they need removed explore my option's.good idea? bad idea? any suggestion's comment's thanks ahead PS I have had Thyroide cancer in 2004,had a full Thyroidectomy,Yes I have no Thyriode,I had to go through 5 years radiation theropy because I had free flowing cancer traveling all through my body,from the papillary thyroid carcinoma stage 4 yes I had been told 99.8 positive full recovery.

 

ShadyGuy
Posts: 386
Joined: Jan 2017

you may have better luck starting a new thread. I can only say that lymphoma tumors are rarely painful.

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