Confused

Hello all,

I am brand new to this group as I am brand new to the idea of having a very large tumor on each kidney as well. Just last week after seeing a urologist for blood in my urine he prescribed medicine to stop the bleeding and ordered an ultra-sound. This revealed the growths that are 60x60x60 cm and the other 75x65x70 cm. This was followed by a cat scan with contrast that confirmed same and also noted growths on the lower part of my lungs.. WOW what news! This urologist didn’t have much of a bedside manner at all, he basically said to stay in bed and continue to take medications for the bleeding, hardly anything else..

I have just yesterday consulted with an oncologist who didn’t paint a very pretty picture, but he has offered just a little hope anyway. However I am worried about the next step as per the oncologist recommendations, he wants a biopsy of both kidneys ASAP. I hear rumors but have not found anything solid to confirm if this biopsy will accelerate the spread of cancer cells throughout my body! 

If anyone could share their thoughts on the biopsy I would be very, very grateful. 

Thanks,

Tim

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Comments

  • APny
    APny Member Posts: 1,995 Member
    I am so sorry you have to be

    I am so sorry you have to be here but you'll get a lot of information and a warm welcome from everyone. While I'm not a doctor, I don't understand the need for the biopsy. Sadly, the vast majority of time such large growths are cancer, and besides, even if they weren't, you'd have to have them removed anyway since they're already causing problems (bleeding). Definitely try to see a urologic oncologist, one who specializes in or is at least highly experienced with kidney cancer. You'll also need someone for the lung growth. I'm surprised that with the mention of biopsies of the kidneys no mention was made to biopsy the lung. Wishing you the best and hope you find someone who has better bedside manner and something more helpful to suggest than bed rest and medication.

  • Bonngo
    Bonngo Member Posts: 79
    Sorry

    Sorry you have had to join this group, but know you will be welcomed with kindness.

    I agree, you need to find a urology oncologist which will be found in a major medical center.  I was told by my oncologist that biopsies have a high percentage of false negatives leading the patient to believe the tumors are benign.  

    Please keep us posted!

    ~Bonnie

     

     

  • Tim Wisneski
    Tim Wisneski Member Posts: 17
    Bonngo said:

    Sorry

    Sorry you have had to join this group, but know you will be welcomed with kindness.

    I agree, you need to find a urology oncologist which will be found in a major medical center.  I was told by my oncologist that biopsies have a high percentage of false negatives leading the patient to believe the tumors are benign.  

    Please keep us posted!

    ~Bonnie

     

     

    major medical center

    Hi and thank you guys for your reply first off! 

    My first post was without any explination at all but he re I will fill in some blanks, I live in SE Mexico with my wife and children, im 48 years old. I am self employeed with no helth insurance, we are not poor by any means but sure not in a possition to just sit back and not worry about money. 

    I have been called "hard" or "crule" many times but the truth is im a realist and sometimes the truth hurts but in my oppinion its much better than a sugar coated lie.

    My wife and I have made a decision to sell off all our accumilated stuff not realy necessary to get financial affairs in order and also set her up with some sort of a buisness (miabie a fast food franchise or something) that will produce a comfortable life style for her and the kids should I be out of the picture. 

    Im not afraid of the worst for me, but it gets to me thinking of the family needing to make their way after im gone! 

    So you havnt heard of a biopsey actually spreading the cancer? 

    BTW, the first post clearley should have been mm NOT cm

    Regards

    Tim

  • Srashedb
    Srashedb Member Posts: 482
    Confused

    the size you give to each mass doesn't make sense to me; did you forget a period somewhere?

    My strongest advice is to seek an oncologist who is very experienced with renal cancer; get this oncologist before a biopsy.

    there is a world of difference when it comes to renal cancer between a regular oncologist and one who has vast experience with renal cancer.

    take a deep breath and then get back here. 

    Good luck and good wishes

    Sarah

  • Dutch1
    Dutch1 Member Posts: 152
    Look for the best help possible

    Tim;

    It sounds like you have a very complex situation.  You need very good medical advice.  Find experience, skilled professionals.  There are certain hospitals/clinics that are kidney cancer centers.  People swear by them.  If you have misgivings about the advice or care that you are receiving, put out the feelers for new names to call. 

    Bedside manner varies a lot between physicians.  It certainly happens with the kidney cancer pros.  For instance, my surgeon (whose work I respect) was the "glass is half empty" guy.  My oncologist is the opposite.  You have to fight through the doctors who are more pessimistic.

    Also, don't be afraid to get second or third opinions.  Any doctor should not be afraid to have his or her patient seek collaborating advice.  You are the one who should be satisfied as to your course of care.

    PS:  I started this posting before seeing the correction to the tumor size.  CM vs. MM makes a big difference.  Had I thought about it, the measurements in CM would leave you with huge growths to deal with.  The size difference brings more hope.  The lack of insurnace will be a burden; your care will be expensive.

    Dutch

  • Tim Wisneski
    Tim Wisneski Member Posts: 17
    Srashedb said:

    Confused

    the size you give to each mass doesn't make sense to me; did you forget a period somewhere?

    My strongest advice is to seek an oncologist who is very experienced with renal cancer; get this oncologist before a biopsy.

    there is a world of difference when it comes to renal cancer between a regular oncologist and one who has vast experience with renal cancer.

    take a deep breath and then get back here. 

    Good luck and good wishes

    Sarah

    Confused

    Yes the size should certainley have been in mm NOT cm, sorry. I would think there has never been a 23 inch kidney tumor (sure hope not anyway!), mine range from 2.5 - 3 inches.

    I understand so far from what I have learned that thats real big but still learning every minute on this subject. 

    As far as the cost as Dutch mentioned, yes this is a worry. I asked just out of information searching to find out that a kidnet removal here in Villahermosa, Tabasco Mexico would cost roughley 8,000 us dollars. 

    I suppose the medicines are the most expensive issue huh? 

    Regards

    Tim

  • APny
    APny Member Posts: 1,995 Member

    Confused

    Yes the size should certainley have been in mm NOT cm, sorry. I would think there has never been a 23 inch kidney tumor (sure hope not anyway!), mine range from 2.5 - 3 inches.

    I understand so far from what I have learned that thats real big but still learning every minute on this subject. 

    As far as the cost as Dutch mentioned, yes this is a worry. I asked just out of information searching to find out that a kidnet removal here in Villahermosa, Tabasco Mexico would cost roughley 8,000 us dollars. 

    I suppose the medicines are the most expensive issue huh? 

    Regards

    Tim

    Is there any way you could

    Is there any way you could come to the states for consultation? No offense to Villahermosa but I think if at all possible you should seek medical advice and attention here. I'm not confident that they have the experience and expertise to deal wtih such complex case (growth on each kidney and lung).

  • Jan4you
    Jan4you Member Posts: 1,330 Member
    APny said:

    Is there any way you could

    Is there any way you could come to the states for consultation? No offense to Villahermosa but I think if at all possible you should seek medical advice and attention here. I'm not confident that they have the experience and expertise to deal wtih such complex case (growth on each kidney and lung).

    HUGS Tim, I am sorry you and

    HUGS Tim, I am sorry you and your family are facing this news. However, as other have said already, see a Urologist who deals with this type of cancer/surgery. I too have heard that biopsies could spread the cancer, but again, let an expert MD tell you such.

    I  also think it must be measured in mm, not cm. Look again at the report and consult with your Urologist too.

    They usually want a CT where they can get a more exact look  at your kidneys.

    Let us know what you need as we'll walk this journey along side you if you choose.

    Sending you calming and healing vibres.

    Warmly, Jan

  • hardo718
    hardo718 Member Posts: 853
    APny said:

    Is there any way you could

    Is there any way you could come to the states for consultation? No offense to Villahermosa but I think if at all possible you should seek medical advice and attention here. I'm not confident that they have the experience and expertise to deal wtih such complex case (growth on each kidney and lung).

    Welcome Tim

    Don't lose hope.  And don't lay back and take medication, that won't make the tumors go away.  You need to find a new doctor, someone you have a good repoire with.  If at all possible try university type hospitals for a urologic oncologist.  I'm sorry I'm not familiar with SE Mexico in terms of what might be available to you.  I know in the states there may be financial assistance available.  And yes mm's vs. cm's makes a huge difference. 

    I'll keep you & your family in my prayers.  We all are familiar with the initial shock of a diagnosis like you just received, but try to stay hopeful and know that a cancer diagnosis does not necessarily carry a death sentence with it.

    Keep us updated as to your progress finding a new doctor.  Best wishes.

    Donna~

  • donna_lee
    donna_lee Member Posts: 1,024 Member
    hardo718 said:

    Welcome Tim

    Don't lose hope.  And don't lay back and take medication, that won't make the tumors go away.  You need to find a new doctor, someone you have a good repoire with.  If at all possible try university type hospitals for a urologic oncologist.  I'm sorry I'm not familiar with SE Mexico in terms of what might be available to you.  I know in the states there may be financial assistance available.  And yes mm's vs. cm's makes a huge difference. 

    I'll keep you & your family in my prayers.  We all are familiar with the initial shock of a diagnosis like you just received, but try to stay hopeful and know that a cancer diagnosis does not necessarily carry a death sentence with it.

    Keep us updated as to your progress finding a new doctor.  Best wishes.

    Donna~

    Wish we didn't have to welcome you to the group...

    and so sorry to hear your news.   Maybe the doctors choose urology for a specialty because that end doesn't talk back.  Hah!!

    A distant relative was living in Mazatlan and he went to a specialist in Monterey.  May I suggest that you find a different, more empathetic and specialist for more info and treatment.

    That said, perhaps you left out a decimal point on the measurements of your kidney tumors.  6.5 or 7.0 cm sounds more logical, otherwise the measurement is more likely 65 mm or 70 mm.

    There are a lot of determining factors that come into play with surgery, such as are they encapsulated, or spread into the kidney tissue, have they spread into the venous or lymph system?

    I question the wisdom of any biopsy, as size indicates it/both need to be removed.  Can they do a partial or a full nephrectomy on either or both kidneys.  You need to be left with either one kidney or parts of one or both kidneys.  I also know someone in my town who had partials on both kidneys and is still functioning OK. 

    There are drugs that can be used on mets to lungs, if in fact, it is kidney mets to the spots on the lungs.

    You need much more information before you make any decisions.

    Go with God.

    Hugs,  donna_lee

     

  • Pandabear1011
    Pandabear1011 Member Posts: 123
    Tim...

    Hi Tim....My doctor at MD Anderson told me that they don't do biopsies on kidney tumors due to the possibility of spreading the cancer cells. If there is any way you can get to MD Anderson in Houston, Texas they will have answers for you . Best wishes....Panda

  • dhs1963
    dhs1963 Member Posts: 513
    First, are you sure of the units?

    75x65x70 cm is huge.  I have never heard of a tumor that big....that would be like 24 inches on a side.  I think it is 75x65x70 mm.

     

    Second, we have all been there -- you need an oncologist who specialized in RCC.  You do not say where you are located.  But there are several cancer centers with RCC specialists.  

     

    Bilateral disease is scarier as we need one kidney.  I would reach out to NIH Urologic Oncology group -- because of the bilateral disease.  The contact there is Lindsey Middleton.  You can get her contact information through google.

     

     

  • icemantoo
    icemantoo Member Posts: 3,360 Member
    dhs1963 said:

    First, are you sure of the units?

    75x65x70 cm is huge.  I have never heard of a tumor that big....that would be like 24 inches on a side.  I think it is 75x65x70 mm.

     

    Second, we have all been there -- you need an oncologist who specialized in RCC.  You do not say where you are located.  But there are several cancer centers with RCC specialists.  

     

    Bilateral disease is scarier as we need one kidney.  I would reach out to NIH Urologic Oncology group -- because of the bilateral disease.  The contact there is Lindsey Middleton.  You can get her contact information through google.

     

     

    Bi lateral Kidney Cancer

    Tim,

     

    There are no simple answers to your questions. Either of your tumors can be dealt with, but I would seek medical help as I up on the food chain as possable for your diagnosis. Dhs has a good suggetion to start with.

     

     

    Icemantoo

  • Allochka
    Allochka Member Posts: 1,004 Member
    icemantoo said:

    Bi lateral Kidney Cancer

    Tim,

     

    There are no simple answers to your questions. Either of your tumors can be dealt with, but I would seek medical help as I up on the food chain as possable for your diagnosis. Dhs has a good suggetion to start with.

     

     

    Icemantoo

    Hi,
    I have no more advice

    Hi,

    I have no more advice other than what others have suggested. But just want to say - hold on, don't give up without a fight. There are many Stage 4 people here who manage this as a chronic disease.

    Good luck to you!

  • Tim Wisneski
    Tim Wisneski Member Posts: 17
    Allochka said:

    Hi,
    I have no more advice

    Hi,

    I have no more advice other than what others have suggested. But just want to say - hold on, don't give up without a fight. There are many Stage 4 people here who manage this as a chronic disease.

    Good luck to you!

    Another Day

    Hello all and good morning,

    Thanks for your replies, it does help a lot to share with people who know what the feelings are running around in my head. Yesterday we spoke again with the oncoligist and after further study of the images with other doctors, one Kidney they say is damaged beyond any intervention and not functioning at all. The new plan now is to wait a week or so for me to get some financial affairs closed up and then schedule surgery, at that point they will remove this bad Kidney and have a good look at this thing. After that they will plan a partial on the other and also be looking at a donor Kidney.

    For many years I have only seen a Canadian doctor who lives a few hours from me, he has became more a family friend than anything else. He is not specialized in anything that I know of but as a friend he is wanting to review all the scans and reports to put this into an understandable language and find us who he feels to be the best specialists here in our area. 

    Many years ago I had Gullian-Bare Syndrome and needed to visit a hospital in Texas, this was back when I had good health insurance so everything was taken care of.. This go around is a little differnt with no health insurance (how stupid of me to not buy this). Just never worried about getting sick, lived on black coffee, cigeretts and later in the day Jack Daniels and coke, this was basically a daily routine unless I went offshore with our service technicians when it simply switched to only coffee and cigeretts. Well it caught up to me it seems. 

    Immediatley after this without question, the coffee, alchohol and dark soft drinks are done, I am still strugeling with quiting smoaking, slowed way down but for example today ive had 2 so far in the 2 hours ive been awake... 

    I am thinking about a small hotel here in our town as a good source of income for my wife, really we were thinking about some other source of income for quite some time before any of this becouse the work I done on the oil rigs is highley specialized, we have good help but when im not there to guide the guys it all stops and thats just not good. Past couple years of my crazy lifestyle afforded us with the means to accumilate about a milion dollars in property that should be moved with little problems. My idea is to get rid of the ranch and all the other stuff we dont really need, have a good lump of working capital to set up with a hotel or some other buisness and still have money set back to take care of my situation and life in general. 

    Some might say why worry with another source of income, but I think its best to have all the bases covered before going in for surgery in case things get worse fast. I am at ease when thinking that my wife and kids will be ok regardless of any outcome. 

    OK enough of my rambling on for a while, thanks for your support.

    God Bless

    Tim

  • APny
    APny Member Posts: 1,995 Member

    Another Day

    Hello all and good morning,

    Thanks for your replies, it does help a lot to share with people who know what the feelings are running around in my head. Yesterday we spoke again with the oncoligist and after further study of the images with other doctors, one Kidney they say is damaged beyond any intervention and not functioning at all. The new plan now is to wait a week or so for me to get some financial affairs closed up and then schedule surgery, at that point they will remove this bad Kidney and have a good look at this thing. After that they will plan a partial on the other and also be looking at a donor Kidney.

    For many years I have only seen a Canadian doctor who lives a few hours from me, he has became more a family friend than anything else. He is not specialized in anything that I know of but as a friend he is wanting to review all the scans and reports to put this into an understandable language and find us who he feels to be the best specialists here in our area. 

    Many years ago I had Gullian-Bare Syndrome and needed to visit a hospital in Texas, this was back when I had good health insurance so everything was taken care of.. This go around is a little differnt with no health insurance (how stupid of me to not buy this). Just never worried about getting sick, lived on black coffee, cigeretts and later in the day Jack Daniels and coke, this was basically a daily routine unless I went offshore with our service technicians when it simply switched to only coffee and cigeretts. Well it caught up to me it seems. 

    Immediatley after this without question, the coffee, alchohol and dark soft drinks are done, I am still strugeling with quiting smoaking, slowed way down but for example today ive had 2 so far in the 2 hours ive been awake... 

    I am thinking about a small hotel here in our town as a good source of income for my wife, really we were thinking about some other source of income for quite some time before any of this becouse the work I done on the oil rigs is highley specialized, we have good help but when im not there to guide the guys it all stops and thats just not good. Past couple years of my crazy lifestyle afforded us with the means to accumilate about a milion dollars in property that should be moved with little problems. My idea is to get rid of the ranch and all the other stuff we dont really need, have a good lump of working capital to set up with a hotel or some other buisness and still have money set back to take care of my situation and life in general. 

    Some might say why worry with another source of income, but I think its best to have all the bases covered before going in for surgery in case things get worse fast. I am at ease when thinking that my wife and kids will be ok regardless of any outcome. 

    OK enough of my rambling on for a while, thanks for your support.

    God Bless

    Tim

    While certainly no one would

    While certainly no one would advocate a diet of cigarettes, black coffee, and alcohol, there are plenty of us who did not do that and still ended up with kidney cancer. Others who do abuse all of the above live to a ripe old age of a 100. So there's no guarantees that a healthy lifestyle will spare you cancer. I was a health nut and yet here I am. Anyway, it's good that you're thinking ahead but i still think you should use some of your assests to get expert opinion here in the states. Or at least in Mexico City with large hospitals and experienced physicians/oncologists. Wishing you the best and ramble on any time you feel like it. We'll listen.

  • hardo718
    hardo718 Member Posts: 853
    APny said:

    While certainly no one would

    While certainly no one would advocate a diet of cigarettes, black coffee, and alcohol, there are plenty of us who did not do that and still ended up with kidney cancer. Others who do abuse all of the above live to a ripe old age of a 100. So there's no guarantees that a healthy lifestyle will spare you cancer. I was a health nut and yet here I am. Anyway, it's good that you're thinking ahead but i still think you should use some of your assests to get expert opinion here in the states. Or at least in Mexico City with large hospitals and experienced physicians/oncologists. Wishing you the best and ramble on any time you feel like it. We'll listen.

    Glad to hear you have someone you trust

    Your Canadian physician/friend is a good start. 

    I agree with what APny had to say regarding life styles & habits.  Certainly no gaurantees. 

    It's nice that you have the luxury of being able to move some money around and making some changes there as well.  Again, try to find the best doctors you possibly can, stay as positive as possible and keep moving forward.  As bleak as things sound, you can still put up a good fight, so don't throw in the towel.  I'm sure your family still considers you an integral part of their lives and more than the possessions you've been blessed to be able to afford.  None of us will leave this world with our possessions, so make the most of your relationships now.

    I'll keep you and your family in my prayers Tim.

    Donna~

  • Another Day

    Hello all and good morning,

    Thanks for your replies, it does help a lot to share with people who know what the feelings are running around in my head. Yesterday we spoke again with the oncoligist and after further study of the images with other doctors, one Kidney they say is damaged beyond any intervention and not functioning at all. The new plan now is to wait a week or so for me to get some financial affairs closed up and then schedule surgery, at that point they will remove this bad Kidney and have a good look at this thing. After that they will plan a partial on the other and also be looking at a donor Kidney.

    For many years I have only seen a Canadian doctor who lives a few hours from me, he has became more a family friend than anything else. He is not specialized in anything that I know of but as a friend he is wanting to review all the scans and reports to put this into an understandable language and find us who he feels to be the best specialists here in our area. 

    Many years ago I had Gullian-Bare Syndrome and needed to visit a hospital in Texas, this was back when I had good health insurance so everything was taken care of.. This go around is a little differnt with no health insurance (how stupid of me to not buy this). Just never worried about getting sick, lived on black coffee, cigeretts and later in the day Jack Daniels and coke, this was basically a daily routine unless I went offshore with our service technicians when it simply switched to only coffee and cigeretts. Well it caught up to me it seems. 

    Immediatley after this without question, the coffee, alchohol and dark soft drinks are done, I am still strugeling with quiting smoaking, slowed way down but for example today ive had 2 so far in the 2 hours ive been awake... 

    I am thinking about a small hotel here in our town as a good source of income for my wife, really we were thinking about some other source of income for quite some time before any of this becouse the work I done on the oil rigs is highley specialized, we have good help but when im not there to guide the guys it all stops and thats just not good. Past couple years of my crazy lifestyle afforded us with the means to accumilate about a milion dollars in property that should be moved with little problems. My idea is to get rid of the ranch and all the other stuff we dont really need, have a good lump of working capital to set up with a hotel or some other buisness and still have money set back to take care of my situation and life in general. 

    Some might say why worry with another source of income, but I think its best to have all the bases covered before going in for surgery in case things get worse fast. I am at ease when thinking that my wife and kids will be ok regardless of any outcome. 

    OK enough of my rambling on for a while, thanks for your support.

    God Bless

    Tim

    Tim,
    I basically have lived

    Tim,

    I basically have lived the life of a monk.  No alcohol, no cigarrettes, eat fairly well, and in relatively good physical condition.  Sometimes cancer is just random.

     

    As far as your financial affairs, do you have someone like a financial advisor (even someone at your bank) who could sit down with you and provide you the best guidance.  And as others have said, you condition does not mean you are going to die immediately or very soon.   You may have many years to live.  The initial diagnosis is overwhelming, but try to take things step by step.  Get the bad kidney removed.  Hopefully you can get a partial on the second kidney.  A lot of folks live with a partial kidney.

     

    Good luck and keep us posted.

  • Coldbiker
    Coldbiker Member Posts: 23 Member

    Another Day

    Hello all and good morning,

    Thanks for your replies, it does help a lot to share with people who know what the feelings are running around in my head. Yesterday we spoke again with the oncoligist and after further study of the images with other doctors, one Kidney they say is damaged beyond any intervention and not functioning at all. The new plan now is to wait a week or so for me to get some financial affairs closed up and then schedule surgery, at that point they will remove this bad Kidney and have a good look at this thing. After that they will plan a partial on the other and also be looking at a donor Kidney.

    For many years I have only seen a Canadian doctor who lives a few hours from me, he has became more a family friend than anything else. He is not specialized in anything that I know of but as a friend he is wanting to review all the scans and reports to put this into an understandable language and find us who he feels to be the best specialists here in our area. 

    Many years ago I had Gullian-Bare Syndrome and needed to visit a hospital in Texas, this was back when I had good health insurance so everything was taken care of.. This go around is a little differnt with no health insurance (how stupid of me to not buy this). Just never worried about getting sick, lived on black coffee, cigeretts and later in the day Jack Daniels and coke, this was basically a daily routine unless I went offshore with our service technicians when it simply switched to only coffee and cigeretts. Well it caught up to me it seems. 

    Immediatley after this without question, the coffee, alchohol and dark soft drinks are done, I am still strugeling with quiting smoaking, slowed way down but for example today ive had 2 so far in the 2 hours ive been awake... 

    I am thinking about a small hotel here in our town as a good source of income for my wife, really we were thinking about some other source of income for quite some time before any of this becouse the work I done on the oil rigs is highley specialized, we have good help but when im not there to guide the guys it all stops and thats just not good. Past couple years of my crazy lifestyle afforded us with the means to accumilate about a milion dollars in property that should be moved with little problems. My idea is to get rid of the ranch and all the other stuff we dont really need, have a good lump of working capital to set up with a hotel or some other buisness and still have money set back to take care of my situation and life in general. 

    Some might say why worry with another source of income, but I think its best to have all the bases covered before going in for surgery in case things get worse fast. I am at ease when thinking that my wife and kids will be ok regardless of any outcome. 

    OK enough of my rambling on for a while, thanks for your support.

    God Bless

    Tim

    Check your health insurance options

    I assume you are a US citizen I would check with the embassy or better contact the ObamaCare team to see what you would have to do to get health insurance, some good changes like they can't deny you coverage for pre existing conditions. Whatever that cost would be including coming back to the states, would have to be cheaper than covering this yourself. Good Luck and please keep us updated. 

  • Allochka
    Allochka Member Posts: 1,004 Member
    Coldbiker said:

    Check your health insurance options

    I assume you are a US citizen I would check with the embassy or better contact the ObamaCare team to see what you would have to do to get health insurance, some good changes like they can't deny you coverage for pre existing conditions. Whatever that cost would be including coming back to the states, would have to be cheaper than covering this yourself. Good Luck and please keep us updated. 

    About the lifestyle - a

    About the lifestyle - a friend of mine never smoked and died of lung cancer aged 44 ... A colleague had a pale skin and always avoided sun - had melanoma anyway, luckily stage 1 and out of danger now. You never know. Sometimes I think that some not so healthy habits (like wine, chocolate, a cigarette on a weekend) should stay - they give us joy of life, much needed innocent  pleasures. I'm not saying we should live unhealthy, but don't think we must totally restrict ourselves, because it brings no guarantees.