MRI results

janderson1964
janderson1964 Member Posts: 2,215

Most of you know I had a CT scan 3 weeks ago and initially I was told it was clear. Then the official report mentioned a tiny nodule near the surface of the liver. So they scheduled an MRI which I did Tuesday. Well I got the results today from my oncologist and as I figured it was inconclusive. He said I could do a biopsy or wait a few months and do another scan to see if there is any progression. He seemed to be pushing me towards the biopsy. He said if it is malignant surgery is proboly not an option since I had 2 liver resections. I told him he was already wrong since I have had 3 liver resections. The jerk doesnt even know my medical history. He also said RFA might not be an option since it was so close to the surface. I never heard of that before. I would think that would make it easier.

So I talked to my surgeon and he said he could operate and he recommends waiting 3 months and then rescanning. He said a biopsy on such a small nodule migh prove inconclusive as well.

Needless to say I am considering switching oncologist agin.

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Comments

  • gophergenius
    gophergenius Member Posts: 33
    We got the same thing going on!

    That's basically what I've been told, but I've been NED for almost 4 years!  They started noticing it on my CT scans when I was about 2 1/2 years NED.  It's growing, but I guess not fast enough.       This is why I ask quality of life questions.  I do not know if I am going to try surgeries/chemo or whatever they think is best for me IF it is cancer.  Maybe it is just something benign.  

  • wolfen
    wolfen Member Posts: 1,324

    We got the same thing going on!

    That's basically what I've been told, but I've been NED for almost 4 years!  They started noticing it on my CT scans when I was about 2 1/2 years NED.  It's growing, but I guess not fast enough.       This is why I ask quality of life questions.  I do not know if I am going to try surgeries/chemo or whatever they think is best for me IF it is cancer.  Maybe it is just something benign.  

    Jeff, Don't You Just Love It!

    It makes you wonder if the doctor even has "your" chart in his hand. I think I'd be looking around for a new onc also.

    Take care,

    Wolfen

  • steveandnat
    steveandnat Member Posts: 886
    How frustrating

    We depend on our doctors to be on top of things so I see why you are so frustrated with your onc.  I would probably wait and get a new scan unless you have any bad feelings before your scan date. I pray everything works out for you.  Jeff

  • lp1964
    lp1964 Member Posts: 1,239 Member
    Inconclusive biopsy is BS!

    They take a tiny biopsy, they put it under a big microscope and a pathologist can tell in 5 seconds if there are metastatic cells in there from the primary cancer or it's something else. 

    Come on, don't let them bullshit you.

    You can't play with cancer patients, wait and see rarely works with us And it's too risky. If its too small, take the whole thing out with the biopsy.

    Sorry, I'm just upset alongside with you. So let's take a deep breath and calm down.

    You know we all want the best for you.

    Laz

  • Coloncancerblows
    Coloncancerblows Member Posts: 296
    I think I would be switching

    I think I would be switching to a new oncologist too!

  • Chelsea71
    Chelsea71 Member Posts: 1,169
    Ditch the onc.  Try not to

    Ditch the onc.  Try not to worry.  I would push for the biopsy.

  • jasminsaba
    jasminsaba Member Posts: 157
    My advice ...

    I know it's disappointing to be dealing with the unknown ... and so frustrating to be dealing with a doc who isn't fully informed about his own patient. In your shoes, I'd push for the biopsy now - knowing myself, I'd never be able to make it through the next three months not knowing what is or is not growing inside me.

    Also, to address an earlier comment about biopsies - there IS such thing as an inconclusive biopsy. Depending on the sample they take, they may very well miss cancerous cells inside a specimen that might look (be) suspicious for malignancy. That's what makes it inconclusive ... it's the same as innocent until proven guilty - sometimes, you can't prove the guilt even if you know a crime was committed because the evidence is just not there.

    Whatever you decide, I wish you all the very best ... and will pray that this turns out to be nothing sinister.

  • jasminsaba
    jasminsaba Member Posts: 157
    double post ...

    sorry

  • janderson1964
    janderson1964 Member Posts: 2,215
    lp1964 said:

    Inconclusive biopsy is BS!

    They take a tiny biopsy, they put it under a big microscope and a pathologist can tell in 5 seconds if there are metastatic cells in there from the primary cancer or it's something else. 

    Come on, don't let them bullshit you.

    You can't play with cancer patients, wait and see rarely works with us And it's too risky. If its too small, take the whole thing out with the biopsy.

    Sorry, I'm just upset alongside with you. So let's take a deep breath and calm down.

    You know we all want the best for you.

    Laz

    I have read several times

    I have read several times that biopsys are not 100% and more and more doctors are taking tbe wait and see approach. This is one tiny pea sized nodule near rbe surface of the live. My surgeon who recommended waiting is the head of the entire surgical department at a large inter city NCI recognized hospital. He has been performing liver resections for over 30 years. He was just recognized in US News as being in the top 1% in the entire country in his specialty.

    Besides I have been fighting cancer for 8 years. How many years have you been fighting and you are going to tell me that I am being bullshitted because you have a different opinion.

    You should keep your opinions to yourself if you donr have anything positive to say. I was really at peace about all of this until you pissed me off. 

    I posted to get support from the veterans here who know how to support each other in a positive way.

  • johnnybegood
    johnnybegood Member Posts: 1,117

    double post ...

    sorry

    sorry Jeff

    you are so upset thats how this roller coaster ride goes.i had a spot come up on my liver 5 months after my liver resection.a good indicator for me was my billiruben level went up.man they were quick to do rfa on that one i was in and out.what is your billiruben level?is it within normal range.and yea i have learned to trust my surgen any day over my chemo onc.keep the Faith and keep fighting...Godbless...johnnybegood

  • Cathleen Mary
    Cathleen Mary Member Posts: 827

    sorry Jeff

    you are so upset thats how this roller coaster ride goes.i had a spot come up on my liver 5 months after my liver resection.a good indicator for me was my billiruben level went up.man they were quick to do rfa on that one i was in and out.what is your billiruben level?is it within normal range.and yea i have learned to trust my surgen any day over my chemo onc.keep the Faith and keep fighting...Godbless...johnnybegood

    Jeff,
    Sorry that you are

    Jeff,

    Sorry that you are going through all of this uncertainty. Prayers for a decision that you can be comfortable with and a good outcome.  I don't know what you should do; I can only know what I might do...get a second opinion.

    Cathleen Mary

  • janderson1964
    janderson1964 Member Posts: 2,215

    My advice ...

    I know it's disappointing to be dealing with the unknown ... and so frustrating to be dealing with a doc who isn't fully informed about his own patient. In your shoes, I'd push for the biopsy now - knowing myself, I'd never be able to make it through the next three months not knowing what is or is not growing inside me.

    Also, to address an earlier comment about biopsies - there IS such thing as an inconclusive biopsy. Depending on the sample they take, they may very well miss cancerous cells inside a specimen that might look (be) suspicious for malignancy. That's what makes it inconclusive ... it's the same as innocent until proven guilty - sometimes, you can't prove the guilt even if you know a crime was committed because the evidence is just not there.

    Whatever you decide, I wish you all the very best ... and will pray that this turns out to be nothing sinister.

    You are absolutely right. I

    You are absolutely right. I am at pease with my decision. I had made up my mind to wait if the mri was inconclusive.i am happier now than i was the past 3 weeks wasting all that time doing scans and doctors visits. It would be another wasted two weeks for the biopsy. If there is growth when i get the scan i am going to tell them to cur it out and dont waste time and money with a biopsy. Who knows maybe 4 liver resections will be a record for that hospital.

  • janderson1964
    janderson1964 Member Posts: 2,215

    sorry Jeff

    you are so upset thats how this roller coaster ride goes.i had a spot come up on my liver 5 months after my liver resection.a good indicator for me was my billiruben level went up.man they were quick to do rfa on that one i was in and out.what is your billiruben level?is it within normal range.and yea i have learned to trust my surgen any day over my chemo onc.keep the Faith and keep fighting...Godbless...johnnybegood

    My bilirubin is normal along

    My bilirubin is normal along with all of the blodd test for liver funtion.

  • janderson1964
    janderson1964 Member Posts: 2,215

    Jeff,
    Sorry that you are

    Jeff,

    Sorry that you are going through all of this uncertainty. Prayers for a decision that you can be comfortable with and a good outcome.  I don't know what you should do; I can only know what I might do...get a second opinion.

    Cathleen Mary

    I got the second opinion. My

    I got the second opinion. My oncologist opion sucked so I immediately got my surgeons opinion.

  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624
    Jeff

    Don't blame you for switching Onc, I'm so happy to have mine, he reviews my chart along with me everytime, asks about anything my body might be doing new, checks all the tests over again, shows me the results and gives them to me when I remember to ask for them.  Right now we are emailing each other every day due to his request while we wait on latest tests done.  I hope you find one like that soon!

    here's hoping it's nothing but understand the waiting, I'm glad to hear you've had three,makes me feel better about just having my second and knowing a third is a posssible option if need be.

    Glad you have a surgeon you feel good about, now if you can find an onc that you can feel about too!

    thinking about you and sending hugs,

    Winter Marie

  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,299 Member
    lp1964 said:

    Inconclusive biopsy is BS!

    They take a tiny biopsy, they put it under a big microscope and a pathologist can tell in 5 seconds if there are metastatic cells in there from the primary cancer or it's something else. 

    Come on, don't let them bullshit you.

    You can't play with cancer patients, wait and see rarely works with us And it's too risky. If its too small, take the whole thing out with the biopsy.

    Sorry, I'm just upset alongside with you. So let's take a deep breath and calm down.

    You know we all want the best for you.

    Laz

    history

    Laz, long time readers of these boards have seen several downsides to biopsies.  In general there is concern about puncturing and spreading a met.  Some have actually had new mets populate the needle track from cellular debris with poor outcome.  I think the overall bias is to get non invasive data, or one and done procedures.  

    Even prostate biopsies with massive multiple punctures at close range manage to miss tumors sometimes.  

  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624
    lp1964 said:

    Inconclusive biopsy is BS!

    They take a tiny biopsy, they put it under a big microscope and a pathologist can tell in 5 seconds if there are metastatic cells in there from the primary cancer or it's something else. 

    Come on, don't let them bullshit you.

    You can't play with cancer patients, wait and see rarely works with us And it's too risky. If its too small, take the whole thing out with the biopsy.

    Sorry, I'm just upset alongside with you. So let's take a deep breath and calm down.

    You know we all want the best for you.

    Laz

    Biopsies

    Actually Laz, one little biopsy doesn't work, for instance on my tumor in.Colon they took several pieces to biopsy because one areas can show non cancerous when indeed it is cancer.  Plus I would be worried about seeding, not worth it, that's why my lung mets have never been biopsied, I don't want it.

    Winter Marie

  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,299 Member
    extra bullets

    Jeff are you using the LEF or Moss type list of alternative adjuncts ?  When we experience sustained suspicion of activity, we incrementally add stuff, another molecular target, anticancer extract/drug off-label, or two, or maybe a higher dose.  We also ramp up blood testing, more frequently and more markers.

    At sometime you may strike out with oncs in general, we did.  We use the surgeon(s), a dedicated radiologist, an internal medicine altmed MD who handles many cancer cases, and outside groups like LEF or Riordan Clinic and labs.  

     

  • janderson1964
    janderson1964 Member Posts: 2,215

    Jeff

    Don't blame you for switching Onc, I'm so happy to have mine, he reviews my chart along with me everytime, asks about anything my body might be doing new, checks all the tests over again, shows me the results and gives them to me when I remember to ask for them.  Right now we are emailing each other every day due to his request while we wait on latest tests done.  I hope you find one like that soon!

    here's hoping it's nothing but understand the waiting, I'm glad to hear you've had three,makes me feel better about just having my second and knowing a third is a posssible option if need be.

    Glad you have a surgeon you feel good about, now if you can find an onc that you can feel about too!

    thinking about you and sending hugs,

    Winter Marie

    Thanks Marie. I do have that

    Thanks Marie. I do have that kind of relationship with my surgeon. We email several times a day. I could never get my oncologist to return one email or phone call.

  • annalexandria
    annalexandria Member Posts: 2,571
    Hey ! I think you have my doctor!

    He's the head of the oncology dept. and known for his research, all-around popular guy, and I can't stand him.  He never seems to remember who I am (even though I have a super-rare tumor and unusual progression which should make me at least slightly memorable).  I've found that my surgeon is a much better resource for me, and seems a lot more focused on my case.  Oncologists in general seem to not be very knowledgable about anything beyond the two or three standard chemos they offer to everybody.  I'm glad your surgeon is on the ball, and it sounds like he has a good plan for you. I've done the "watch and wait" thing on several occasions...sometimes stuff grew, and then it was time for surgery, and sometimes it didn't.  It's a pretty good approach, IMO.