Is extending life always the best choice

cchqnetman
cchqnetman Member Posts: 119
I hope no one if offended by this post. If they are, I apologize in advance. The reason I am posing this question in this forum is I have often wished I had someone to talk to whom I had no emotional involvement hoping I would get more logical answers than emotional answers.

History:
Current Age: 62
Employment status: Working but thinking of retiring
Marital Status: Married
Children: One (wonderful) 39 year old daughter

7/1999: Left/Right biopsy: Right side (no further specificity was given) had “a single focus of atypical glands”. PSA was 8.2 pre-biopsy.

8/1999: Lab results were read by a second lab (Air Force Institute of Pathology) that diagnosed it as “focus of carcinoma, well differentiated, nuclear grade I.

12/1999: 6-Core biopsy: All cores negative for cancer.

4/2000: Veterans’ Administration Hospital Lab examined the slides from Air Force Institute of Pathology and concurred it was “invasive prostatic adenocarcinoma” and added the comment “too few glands to Gleason Score”.

4/2000: 12-core biopsy: Right Mid (RM) and Right Mid Lateral (RML) positive for Prostatic Intraepithelial Neoplasia (PIN).
Therapy chosen: Active Surveillance (AS)

12/2009: 12-core biopsy: All cores negative for cancer, no PIN

9/2012: 12-core biopsy. Right Lateral Base core with 5% involvement, Gleason 3+4=7 and PIN; RML core with 50% involvement, Gleason 3+4=7; Right Lateral Apex core with PIN and Atypical Small Acinar Proliferation (ASAP). Pre biopsy PSA 7.7

From 1999 to present PSA has been anywhere from 8.2 to 1.5 – no real trend.

Other health issues: Degenerative Joint Disease (DJD) in neck and lower back; repeated kidney stones/Stage I of kidney disease. Treatment for DJD resulted in a perforated ulcer and precluded any further use of Non-Steroidal Inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs). NSAIDs were also suspected in the cause of kidney disease.

I am approaching the decision on what, if any, treatment to seek for my prostate cancer. I sometimes look at the possibility of getting treated as extending the quantity of life but decreasing the quality of life. I like to look at things from a statistical point of view as much as possible (the engineer in me). If I could graph quality of life versus time, the graph might extend farther to the right (more time) but on a lower horizontal scale (less quality). I fully realize both scales are very subjective and guesses at this point as I don’t know what the treatment would do to the quality of my life or to the duration of my life. I am pretty much convinced any treatment would decrease my quality of life – I just don’t know by how much. My DJD causes me almost daily pain and/or headaches which already has my quality of life at a sub-normal level. I have sought and received some treatment for the DJD but at this point the neuro surgeon is suggesting fusing the joints in my neck – at least three of them. I can’t imagine what that would be like. I am not sure I want to imagine that. I think I am looking at the possibility of decreasing my quality of life even further to extend it. I ask myself why I would do that.
If you have read this far, thank you! You are a patient person.

I realize this post isn’t going to win any “best in category” awards but I hope to get some honest comments back. Does anyone see my point? Has anyone every asked similar questions?

Thanks

David
«13

Comments

  • laserlight
    laserlight Member Posts: 165
    Quality of Life
    David;

    Prostate cancer sucks, but the one thing that I find myself doing on a daily basis is to fight. You know as well as I do that the Military taught us to fight and not give up.

    This PC so far has been a fight for myself, I am tired of the doctor appts, lab tests and all of the follow ups. I have had more doctor visits in the last 18 months then I have had my entire life.

    I work in the semiconductor industry, so the engineer in me wants to take over at times, but I have found that I have to take a different approach here.

    I am always watching lab results and numbers

    I for the most part have found that this is a daily fight, only the men with this monster can know what I am talking about.

    It is ok to feel bad about this,

    I am going to retire next year, I am 62 years old, but the constant work load has worn me out.

    The other day I took off and went into the woods and spent couple of hours target shooting, now I know that this might upset some and for that I to apologize. But this was the best time I had in the last 18 months. The next time my son will be with me and we will have the 50 cal out.

    I do think that we all need to take a break from this PC and clear out minds. It is true that we might die from some other illiness.

    You are a Vietnam Vet and Brother we need you here, just as I am.
    I have asked myself many questions about this.

    The one thing about this is that we need to monitor and always watch.

    Hope this helps


    Kurt
  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,339 Member
    As a lay person on the internet, I fear that my viewpoint
    may not be helpful., so I strongly recommend that you seek a professional to speak with.

    Anyway this is my viewpoint:
    To be honest, my life is not perfect, with other medical and personal problems, however, I chose to look at the bagel, not the hole. I look at the 98 percent that is wonderful, not the 2 percent...so I work at enjoying the moments with what I have. I focus on being very positive in my interpersonal communications. People think that I am upbeat, which I am, and enjoy being in my presence, as I do being in the presence of other upbeat people....it is contagious.

    By the way, I suggest that you associate with upbeat people, ie clergyperson who is upbeat(if not change to another one, even if it he/she is from a different religion), and do things that you enjoy doing, and not do things because you think that it the thing to do....basically do your best to do positive things and have a positive outlook on life.i

    Life is wonderful,

    Enjoy the momemnts
  • ralph.townsend1
    ralph.townsend1 Member Posts: 359 Member
    Okay, It suck!
    But remember you have a lot of people counting on YOU. This Monster will control you if you let it and will destory you. You can fight the pain and endure! I have five different diesase's from the Agent Orange and know the fight you are up against. We have made it through Vietnam and we will make it through this battle.

    There is a lot of help at VA hospital and it takes a little time find, but it is there from depression to PTSD!

    Good luck

    God Bless!!!
  • djs123
    djs123 Member Posts: 102

    Okay, It suck!
    But remember you have a lot of people counting on YOU. This Monster will control you if you let it and will destory you. You can fight the pain and endure! I have five different diesase's from the Agent Orange and know the fight you are up against. We have made it through Vietnam and we will make it through this battle.

    There is a lot of help at VA hospital and it takes a little time find, but it is there from depression to PTSD!

    Good luck

    God Bless!!!

    I'm glad you posted this, it's good to have an outlet for the feelings you can't share with those closest to you for fear of hurting them. This is a good safe place to do that.

    Being the wife of a man going through PC and now quite possibly further complications, I understand your fear, your anxiety, no doubt your anger and your depression.

    My husband, although he doesn't use those words, I know feels quite the same way, I'm sure many men and others going through cancer treatment do and question "what's the point".

    To speak to djd, I had a neck fusion 2 discs, knee surgery & shoulder surgery, all due to an accident several years back. The neck was tough and it took me about a year to get back to full mobility. It was rough but it was so totally worth it. I now play golf, ride a bike, walk, etc.

    I am not an expert or a professional, but I believe you may be suffering from a deep depression, understandably so. During the 2 years prior to my surgery, doing pt, pain meds etc, there were days I simply stayed in bed and wouldn't move. I remember getting up shortly before my husband would come home from work, get dressed and pretend I had a busy normal day like everyone else. Finally after much conversation with my doctor, he put me on zoloft (antidepressant). It completely changed my life for the better. I was much better able to cope and my attitude was much better.

    We also have a male friend who had esophogeal cancer and was ready to give up. His wife insisted he get treated for depression. It helped him tremendously (by the way, his odds were very slim and he is now in remission, after 3 years of barely living).

    Please consider all these factors, your wife, your daughter and the fact that you've got a lot more living to do. An antidepressant may not be the answer for you, but certainly staying the fight not only for yourself but those that love you is something to consider.

    God bless
  • djs123
    djs123 Member Posts: 102

    Okay, It suck!
    But remember you have a lot of people counting on YOU. This Monster will control you if you let it and will destory you. You can fight the pain and endure! I have five different diesase's from the Agent Orange and know the fight you are up against. We have made it through Vietnam and we will make it through this battle.

    There is a lot of help at VA hospital and it takes a little time find, but it is there from depression to PTSD!

    Good luck

    God Bless!!!

    I'm glad you posted this, it's good to have an outlet for the feelings you can't share with those closest to you for fear of hurting them. This is a good safe place to do that.

    Being the wife of a man going through PC and now quite possibly further complications, I understand your fear, your anxiety, no doubt your anger and your depression.

    My husband, although he doesn't use those words, I know feels quite the same way, I'm sure many men and others going through cancer treatment do and question "what's the point".

    To speak to djd, I had a neck fusion 2 discs, knee surgery & shoulder surgery, all due to an accident several years back. The neck was tough and it took me about a year to get back to full mobility. It was rough but it was so totally worth it. I now play golf, ride a bike, walk, etc.

    I am not an expert or a professional, but I believe you may be suffering from a deep depression, understandably so. During the 2 years prior to my surgery, doing pt, pain meds etc, there were days I simply stayed in bed and wouldn't move. I remember getting up shortly before my husband would come home from work, get dressed and pretend I had a busy normal day like everyone else. Finally after much conversation with my doctor, he put me on zoloft (antidepressant). It completely changed my life for the better. I was much better able to cope and my attitude was much better.

    We also have a male friend who had esophogeal cancer and was ready to give up. His wife insisted he get treated for depression. It helped him tremendously (by the way, his odds were very slim and he is now in remission, after 3 years of barely living).

    Please consider all these factors, your wife, your daughter and the fact that you've got a lot more living to do. An antidepressant may not be the answer for you, but certainly staying the fight not only for yourself but those that love you is something to consider.

    God bless
  • hunter49
    hunter49 Member Posts: 240 Member
    I think a lot of us think
    I think a lot of us think the same way. I would do radiation and or seeds. I know several men who have doen it and it brought them into remmission without side effacts. Everyday is a gift and enjoy it. Laser said a good point I went inot the woods this wee for the first time since my surgery last year. I was 49 and thought wow how much time do I have?? I know say the time I have will be spent living and that is it. Nature is a great mental health cure.
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119

    Quality of Life
    David;

    Prostate cancer sucks, but the one thing that I find myself doing on a daily basis is to fight. You know as well as I do that the Military taught us to fight and not give up.

    This PC so far has been a fight for myself, I am tired of the doctor appts, lab tests and all of the follow ups. I have had more doctor visits in the last 18 months then I have had my entire life.

    I work in the semiconductor industry, so the engineer in me wants to take over at times, but I have found that I have to take a different approach here.

    I am always watching lab results and numbers

    I for the most part have found that this is a daily fight, only the men with this monster can know what I am talking about.

    It is ok to feel bad about this,

    I am going to retire next year, I am 62 years old, but the constant work load has worn me out.

    The other day I took off and went into the woods and spent couple of hours target shooting, now I know that this might upset some and for that I to apologize. But this was the best time I had in the last 18 months. The next time my son will be with me and we will have the 50 cal out.

    I do think that we all need to take a break from this PC and clear out minds. It is true that we might die from some other illiness.

    You are a Vietnam Vet and Brother we need you here, just as I am.
    I have asked myself many questions about this.

    The one thing about this is that we need to monitor and always watch.

    Hope this helps


    Kurt

    Thanks
    Kurt,
    Thanks for the reply. I realize the military taught us to fight and not give up but there is a point when you are facing overwhelming opposition and fighting is futile. If fighting is just going to make things worse I wonder what the point is. I do appreciate your taking the time to comment. Thanks!!!!

    David
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119

    As a lay person on the internet, I fear that my viewpoint
    may not be helpful., so I strongly recommend that you seek a professional to speak with.

    Anyway this is my viewpoint:
    To be honest, my life is not perfect, with other medical and personal problems, however, I chose to look at the bagel, not the hole. I look at the 98 percent that is wonderful, not the 2 percent...so I work at enjoying the moments with what I have. I focus on being very positive in my interpersonal communications. People think that I am upbeat, which I am, and enjoy being in my presence, as I do being in the presence of other upbeat people....it is contagious.

    By the way, I suggest that you associate with upbeat people, ie clergyperson who is upbeat(if not change to another one, even if it he/she is from a different religion), and do things that you enjoy doing, and not do things because you think that it the thing to do....basically do your best to do positive things and have a positive outlook on life.i

    Life is wonderful,

    Enjoy the momemnts

    Thanks
    Hopeful,
    Thanks for the comments. I am not sure I agree with your statistics (98 vs 2 % - Ha Ha). I am not much on religion - I don't think there is a spiritual god. I do believe that everyone creates their god and if that does them good I am happy for them. I don't knock anyone who believes in god or religion - it does a lot of good for them and society. I just can't get past the illogicalness. I was taught (right, wrong, or indifferent) that if you are good, obey god’s word, and accept him as you savior, you go to heaven. If you don’t you suffer eternal hell. I just can’t see that as being a fair offer. To me it is like saying give me your wallet and you walk free – don’t and I shoot you. You have a choice but is it a fair choice. I kind of think that is considered armed robbery. I am not so sure I agree with “life is wonderful”. If ity were I would like to enjoy it. Please understand I am not arguing with you – just saying how I feel. I do appreciative your taking the time to think about my situation and comment.

    David
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119

    Okay, It suck!
    But remember you have a lot of people counting on YOU. This Monster will control you if you let it and will destory you. You can fight the pain and endure! I have five different diesase's from the Agent Orange and know the fight you are up against. We have made it through Vietnam and we will make it through this battle.

    There is a lot of help at VA hospital and it takes a little time find, but it is there from depression to PTSD!

    Good luck

    God Bless!!!

    Thanks
    Ralph,
    Appreciate your comments. I do realize there are people counting on me. I think that is the only reason I would ever consider getting treated. I don't want to sound selfish but I think sometime I am considering putting myself through hell to make someone else happy. Not sure that is fair. I guess nothing is fair. I should realize that.

    Thanks again for the comments and your time!

    David
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119

    Okay, It suck!
    But remember you have a lot of people counting on YOU. This Monster will control you if you let it and will destory you. You can fight the pain and endure! I have five different diesase's from the Agent Orange and know the fight you are up against. We have made it through Vietnam and we will make it through this battle.

    There is a lot of help at VA hospital and it takes a little time find, but it is there from depression to PTSD!

    Good luck

    God Bless!!!

    Thanks
    Ralph,
    Appreciate your comments. I do realize there are people counting on me. I think that is the only reason I would ever consider getting treated. I don't want to sound selfish but I think sometime I am considering putting myself through hell to make someone else happy. Not sure that is fair. I guess nothing is fair. I should realize that.

    Thanks again for the comments and your time!

    David
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119
    djs123 said:

    I'm glad you posted this, it's good to have an outlet for the feelings you can't share with those closest to you for fear of hurting them. This is a good safe place to do that.

    Being the wife of a man going through PC and now quite possibly further complications, I understand your fear, your anxiety, no doubt your anger and your depression.

    My husband, although he doesn't use those words, I know feels quite the same way, I'm sure many men and others going through cancer treatment do and question "what's the point".

    To speak to djd, I had a neck fusion 2 discs, knee surgery & shoulder surgery, all due to an accident several years back. The neck was tough and it took me about a year to get back to full mobility. It was rough but it was so totally worth it. I now play golf, ride a bike, walk, etc.

    I am not an expert or a professional, but I believe you may be suffering from a deep depression, understandably so. During the 2 years prior to my surgery, doing pt, pain meds etc, there were days I simply stayed in bed and wouldn't move. I remember getting up shortly before my husband would come home from work, get dressed and pretend I had a busy normal day like everyone else. Finally after much conversation with my doctor, he put me on zoloft (antidepressant). It completely changed my life for the better. I was much better able to cope and my attitude was much better.

    We also have a male friend who had esophogeal cancer and was ready to give up. His wife insisted he get treated for depression. It helped him tremendously (by the way, his odds were very slim and he is now in remission, after 3 years of barely living).

    Please consider all these factors, your wife, your daughter and the fact that you've got a lot more living to do. An antidepressant may not be the answer for you, but certainly staying the fight not only for yourself but those that love you is something to consider.

    God bless

    Thanks
    It is interesting to hear a wife's point of view. I think they suffer as much as we do sometimes. I just had a brother-in-law die. He was diagnosed about a year before I was and he went for the radical P procedure. It was downhill from there and pure hell for him and his wife. I have tried the antidepressant route to no avail (several times). Still thinking about the neck surgery. Trouble is with any of these problems the treatment is so irreversible.

    Thanks for you comments and your point of view. It was a unique one. Thanks!!

    David
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119
    hunter49 said:

    I think a lot of us think
    I think a lot of us think the same way. I would do radiation and or seeds. I know several men who have doen it and it brought them into remmission without side effacts. Everyday is a gift and enjoy it. Laser said a good point I went inot the woods this wee for the first time since my surgery last year. I was 49 and thought wow how much time do I have?? I know say the time I have will be spent living and that is it. Nature is a great mental health cure.

    Thanks
    Hunter,
    I have thought of taking some time off. I had a motorcycle and used to go on long (>4,000 miles) trips every summer. The last 3 years my trips got nixed because of my health issues so I sold the bike. Thanks for taking the time to comment. I do appreciate your views.

    David
  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,339 Member

    Thanks
    Hopeful,
    Thanks for the comments. I am not sure I agree with your statistics (98 vs 2 % - Ha Ha). I am not much on religion - I don't think there is a spiritual god. I do believe that everyone creates their god and if that does them good I am happy for them. I don't knock anyone who believes in god or religion - it does a lot of good for them and society. I just can't get past the illogicalness. I was taught (right, wrong, or indifferent) that if you are good, obey god’s word, and accept him as you savior, you go to heaven. If you don’t you suffer eternal hell. I just can’t see that as being a fair offer. To me it is like saying give me your wallet and you walk free – don’t and I shoot you. You have a choice but is it a fair choice. I kind of think that is considered armed robbery. I am not so sure I agree with “life is wonderful”. If ity were I would like to enjoy it. Please understand I am not arguing with you – just saying how I feel. I do appreciative your taking the time to think about my situation and comment.

    David

    Ok
    I should have said if you are religious and attend services find an upbeat clergy person....basically, what I am talking about is attitude toward living life. At one time at this site we had a thread where we posted positive actions that we did. (I felt better when I posted positives, additionally, when I read the positives of others, it made me feel better).

    David, when we, get diagnosed, with this beast, we all go through shock, and have all those negative feelings for at least a few months. Sometimes we get over it with time, but sometimes the doctor can prescribe something to help, or if needed, there are professional to talk with, who are trained to help
  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,017 Member
    Right To Die
    David:

    The decision to forgo treatment and allow yourself to eventually die from your cancer and/or other diseases is obviously a personal decision that only you can make. The way I look at it, this choice (the decision to forgo treatment) is no different than choosing suicide or euthanasia and I believe that every person should have the "right" to chose to make this decision for him/herself.

    I am not religious and I make no moral judgments about suicide or euthanasia. All I know is that it is an extremely difficult decision for someone to consider and that one must be in severe pain and/or beyond all hope of continuing to live a useful life to even consider it.

    Someone I once worked with (a well-known & respected attorney) chose to commit suicide because he was suffering from degenerative hip pain; committed suicide and planned out his funeral services, including the playing of "The Streets of Laredo", which is a very sad song about the death and burial of a young cowboy, at his memorial.

    So, here's some information that I've come across that should help you decide if this is the choice that you may need or want to make in the future.

    Euthanasia ("the Right to Die") is legal in the Netherlands and Switzerland. Here are the links to the "Right to Die" organizations there:

    http://www.nvve.nl/nvve-english/pagina.asp?pagnaam=homepage
    http://www.exitinternational.net/page/Switzerland

    A couple of years ago, I saw a DVD on PBS which chronicled life and death of several people who chose euthanasia in Switzerland. Chances are it might be rebroadcast again and it's well worth watching. I believe that it was the following movie, which is listed on Netflix but apparently has not yet been released on DVD, that I saw:

    "Exit: The Right to Die (2006NR)

    Showcasing Switzerland's acceptance of euthanasia -- a position endorsed by the Swiss since 1980 -- filmmaker Fernand Melgar's controversial documentary advocates for an individual's right to die. Interviews with terminally ill patients illustrate choices of people whose lives have become too painful to bear. Melgar further investigates the impact that the legalized suicide prerogative has on families of people wishing to end their own suffering."

    Here's a detailed description of the movie where it's for sale for a ridiculous price of $298:

    http://icarusfilms.com/new2006/exit.html

    However, if you're a member of Netflix, I suggest that you just put it in your queue to receive it when it's released. It is a very moving and compassionate depiction of the what certain people (and their families) had to go through in order to choose and follow through with euthanasia. BTW, there's a clip from the movie on Exit's website above.

    There's also another Swiss organization named "Dignitas" which assists people who choose euthanasia, which you can find here:

    http://www.dignitas.ch/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=44&lang=en

    The issue of forgoing treatment and allowing a patient to die (but NOT euthanasia) has also been previously discussed on PBS here:

    http://video.pbs.org/video/1512034909/

    There are also lots of articles on the issue published on the Net. Just Google "euthanasia" and/or "right to die" and you will find lots of them.

    I wish you well and support your decision regardless of the path you choose.

    Ciao!
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119

    Right To Die
    David:

    The decision to forgo treatment and allow yourself to eventually die from your cancer and/or other diseases is obviously a personal decision that only you can make. The way I look at it, this choice (the decision to forgo treatment) is no different than choosing suicide or euthanasia and I believe that every person should have the "right" to chose to make this decision for him/herself.

    I am not religious and I make no moral judgments about suicide or euthanasia. All I know is that it is an extremely difficult decision for someone to consider and that one must be in severe pain and/or beyond all hope of continuing to live a useful life to even consider it.

    Someone I once worked with (a well-known & respected attorney) chose to commit suicide because he was suffering from degenerative hip pain; committed suicide and planned out his funeral services, including the playing of "The Streets of Laredo", which is a very sad song about the death and burial of a young cowboy, at his memorial.

    So, here's some information that I've come across that should help you decide if this is the choice that you may need or want to make in the future.

    Euthanasia ("the Right to Die") is legal in the Netherlands and Switzerland. Here are the links to the "Right to Die" organizations there:

    http://www.nvve.nl/nvve-english/pagina.asp?pagnaam=homepage
    http://www.exitinternational.net/page/Switzerland

    A couple of years ago, I saw a DVD on PBS which chronicled life and death of several people who chose euthanasia in Switzerland. Chances are it might be rebroadcast again and it's well worth watching. I believe that it was the following movie, which is listed on Netflix but apparently has not yet been released on DVD, that I saw:

    "Exit: The Right to Die (2006NR)

    Showcasing Switzerland's acceptance of euthanasia -- a position endorsed by the Swiss since 1980 -- filmmaker Fernand Melgar's controversial documentary advocates for an individual's right to die. Interviews with terminally ill patients illustrate choices of people whose lives have become too painful to bear. Melgar further investigates the impact that the legalized suicide prerogative has on families of people wishing to end their own suffering."

    Here's a detailed description of the movie where it's for sale for a ridiculous price of $298:

    http://icarusfilms.com/new2006/exit.html

    However, if you're a member of Netflix, I suggest that you just put it in your queue to receive it when it's released. It is a very moving and compassionate depiction of the what certain people (and their families) had to go through in order to choose and follow through with euthanasia. BTW, there's a clip from the movie on Exit's website above.

    There's also another Swiss organization named "Dignitas" which assists people who choose euthanasia, which you can find here:

    http://www.dignitas.ch/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=44&lang=en

    The issue of forgoing treatment and allowing a patient to die (but NOT euthanasia) has also been previously discussed on PBS here:

    http://video.pbs.org/video/1512034909/

    There are also lots of articles on the issue published on the Net. Just Google "euthanasia" and/or "right to die" and you will find lots of them.

    I wish you well and support your decision regardless of the path you choose.

    Ciao!

    Good food for thought - Thanks!
    Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I particularly like the honesty and “no moral judgment”. I have always felt that it is any person’s right to commit suicide. I am not sure I would term what I am doing suicide but I can fully understand why someone would look at it as such. I look at it as not doing something (treatment) as opposed to doing something (9mm exit strategy). I will certainly research the web sites you provided. I have a Netflix subscription but it is for streaming only. I might be able to find someone who has the DVD subscription. I may be deciding, or considering deciding, prematurely. If my cancer hasn’t progressed Active Surveillance is still an option at this point. I am scheduled to go back and see my oncologist in January and have a PSA test at the same time. If the PSA is not much more than my last one I would assume the cancer is not progressing rapidly. I realize the PSA is just an indicator but short of having another biopsy that is all I have to go on at this time.
    I have been thinking I may just take some time away from reading, researching, and dwelling on the subject. I can’t take leave and go anywhere (negative leave balance due to so many doctors’ appointments) but I try to quit dwelling on the subject. I suspect it will be difficult as I tend to like to do research and immerse myself in any problem.
    Again, thanks for the comments!!

    David
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119

    Ok
    I should have said if you are religious and attend services find an upbeat clergy person....basically, what I am talking about is attitude toward living life. At one time at this site we had a thread where we posted positive actions that we did. (I felt better when I posted positives, additionally, when I read the positives of others, it made me feel better).

    David, when we, get diagnosed, with this beast, we all go through shock, and have all those negative feelings for at least a few months. Sometimes we get over it with time, but sometimes the doctor can prescribe something to help, or if needed, there are professional to talk with, who are trained to help

    Not complaining!!!
    Hopefull,
    I wasn't complaining or upset with your comments about clergy. I fully realize that gives a lot of people comfort and it is probably naturaly to assume it would others. I do appreciate your taking the time to comment!!

    Thanks and best wishes on the road ahead of you!

    David
  • dwhite1031
    dwhite1031 Member Posts: 26

    Good food for thought - Thanks!
    Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I particularly like the honesty and “no moral judgment”. I have always felt that it is any person’s right to commit suicide. I am not sure I would term what I am doing suicide but I can fully understand why someone would look at it as such. I look at it as not doing something (treatment) as opposed to doing something (9mm exit strategy). I will certainly research the web sites you provided. I have a Netflix subscription but it is for streaming only. I might be able to find someone who has the DVD subscription. I may be deciding, or considering deciding, prematurely. If my cancer hasn’t progressed Active Surveillance is still an option at this point. I am scheduled to go back and see my oncologist in January and have a PSA test at the same time. If the PSA is not much more than my last one I would assume the cancer is not progressing rapidly. I realize the PSA is just an indicator but short of having another biopsy that is all I have to go on at this time.
    I have been thinking I may just take some time away from reading, researching, and dwelling on the subject. I can’t take leave and go anywhere (negative leave balance due to so many doctors’ appointments) but I try to quit dwelling on the subject. I suspect it will be difficult as I tend to like to do research and immerse myself in any problem.
    Again, thanks for the comments!!

    David

    We're here, we understand, we're in it or have been thru it
    First and foremost, thank you for your service to our nation and welcome home. When you listed your family, you listed your spouse and a "wonderful" daughter. That spoke volumes to me about how you feel about your family. I'm sure you know, that they suffer thru your health issues with you each step, though maybe not physically, but emotionally and deep within their being. Since I was diagnosed this past July resulting in a Gleason 9 and an aggressive cancer that was not evident in my biposy July 2011, I have seen my wife, children, grandkids, family and friends, all experience how MY disease has touched them. Cancer of any kind is a terrible thing, and it not only eats away at your body, it eats away at your very existence and that of your family if you allow it to. You are loved, you are a part of many lives you have touched and will touch in so many ways, and some you will not be aware of. You are touching all of our lives on this board.

    You mention you can't go anywhere due to negative leave balances. Have you checked about FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act)? Federal law requires that your employer allow you 12 weeks of consecutive time away from work in the event of illness, and cannot release you from employment because of it.

    Remember this when the cancer begins to pull your mind and emotions down into it's darkness, we are here, we understand, and we're where you are or have been there. Lean on us man, never give up, educate yourself about all of your options, and never think that your life isn't important, because it is.
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119

    We're here, we understand, we're in it or have been thru it
    First and foremost, thank you for your service to our nation and welcome home. When you listed your family, you listed your spouse and a "wonderful" daughter. That spoke volumes to me about how you feel about your family. I'm sure you know, that they suffer thru your health issues with you each step, though maybe not physically, but emotionally and deep within their being. Since I was diagnosed this past July resulting in a Gleason 9 and an aggressive cancer that was not evident in my biposy July 2011, I have seen my wife, children, grandkids, family and friends, all experience how MY disease has touched them. Cancer of any kind is a terrible thing, and it not only eats away at your body, it eats away at your very existence and that of your family if you allow it to. You are loved, you are a part of many lives you have touched and will touch in so many ways, and some you will not be aware of. You are touching all of our lives on this board.

    You mention you can't go anywhere due to negative leave balances. Have you checked about FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act)? Federal law requires that your employer allow you 12 weeks of consecutive time away from work in the event of illness, and cannot release you from employment because of it.

    Remember this when the cancer begins to pull your mind and emotions down into it's darkness, we are here, we understand, and we're where you are or have been there. Lean on us man, never give up, educate yourself about all of your options, and never think that your life isn't important, because it is.

    Thanks
    Thanks for the comments. When I said I couldn't take time off I was referring to taking some time off just to get away. I am sure if I decide to get treated I will be able to take off even if I have to go in the hole (farther). Both my wife and I are considering retiring so that may not be an issue. I don't know how anyone ever decides on a treatment. I will think that one plan in the best and the next day I am not so sure and the following day I have decided against it. I go back to see the doc in Jan and have another PSA test. I guess I will see what is going on then and go from there.

    Thanks again.

    David
  • guards
    guards Member Posts: 72

    Thanks
    Thanks for the comments. When I said I couldn't take time off I was referring to taking some time off just to get away. I am sure if I decide to get treated I will be able to take off even if I have to go in the hole (farther). Both my wife and I are considering retiring so that may not be an issue. I don't know how anyone ever decides on a treatment. I will think that one plan in the best and the next day I am not so sure and the following day I have decided against it. I go back to see the doc in Jan and have another PSA test. I guess I will see what is going on then and go from there.

    Thanks again.

    David

    Choices
    David, If I had know the problems and perhaps had better cousuling I would not have proceeded with the treatment. I would have chosen a quality life for my remaining time.
    You are about the age I was when they finally found cancer in 1 of the 12 samples on my 5th biopsy in 4 years! Many have no problems and breeze through it. Some of us will never get close to where we were. Like you I loved to ride about 15 k a year I had 4 bikes , sold them all. loved golf the clubs now gather dust in the garage. All my plans I had for my retirement went up in smoke with the problems. I will be 70 next birthday and I miss my old life. I was ok for a couple of years then my problems mushroomed. So i understand your thoughts and concerns the choice will be yours, just thought you shoud know some of us would have chosen quality of life. I am sure others have but I think they chose to avoid the internet. The big C is a terrifying thing but the more I read the more I believe QAL was a better choice.
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119
    guards said:

    Choices
    David, If I had know the problems and perhaps had better cousuling I would not have proceeded with the treatment. I would have chosen a quality life for my remaining time.
    You are about the age I was when they finally found cancer in 1 of the 12 samples on my 5th biopsy in 4 years! Many have no problems and breeze through it. Some of us will never get close to where we were. Like you I loved to ride about 15 k a year I had 4 bikes , sold them all. loved golf the clubs now gather dust in the garage. All my plans I had for my retirement went up in smoke with the problems. I will be 70 next birthday and I miss my old life. I was ok for a couple of years then my problems mushroomed. So i understand your thoughts and concerns the choice will be yours, just thought you shoud know some of us would have chosen quality of life. I am sure others have but I think they chose to avoid the internet. The big C is a terrifying thing but the more I read the more I believe QAL was a better choice.

    Thanks for you opinion
    Thank you very much for you post. I really feel like I am so alone feeling the way I do. I figure it took roughtly 12 years to get from "a single focus of adenocarcinoma" to where I am today. I really don't want to make my life more miserable just to extend the miserablness.

    Thanks again.

    David