Vitamin C IV therapy - Kansas Medical Center study - Has anyone tried this?

Hi all,

Has anyone tried Vitamin C IV therapy with good results? If so, where/how did you receive it? Did insurance cover it?

Thoughts or comments?

Thanks in advance!
Jen

YouTube news coverage (there are many other stories)


Other studies:

The University of Kansas Medical Center has a gynecologic cancer and antioxidant study underway headed by Dr. Drisko.

Promising Research on Vitamin C Combined with Vitamin K3

Cancer cell killing: The anticancer effects of sodium ascorbate (vitamin C) and 2-methyl-1,4-naphthoquinone (vitamin K3) administered separately or in combination on human ovarian, breast, endometrial and skin cancer cells lines has been demostrated. When given separately, vitamin C or K3 has a growth inhibiting action only at high concentrations but when combined into a single mixture administration of both vitamins demonstrated a synergistic inhibition of cell growth at 10 to 50 times lower concentrations. These vitamins are not toxic to normal human cells. The combination of sodium ascorbate and vitamin K3 may also prevent metastasis.

The mechanism is something called autoschizic cell death. Autoschizis, is a novel type of cell death characterized by exaggerated cell membrane damage and progressive loss of cell contents. During this process, the nucleus becomes smaller, cell size decreases one-half to one-third of its original size. Co-administration of sodium ascorbate and K3 induces a cell cycle block on cancer cells making it harder for them to grow and divide. This is called a G1/S block. The intravenous vitamin cocktail containing sodium ascorbate and vitamin K3 diminishes cancer cell DNA synthesis, increases H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) production, and decreases cancer cell intracellular antioxidant defenses.
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Comments

  • RoseyR
    RoseyR Member Posts: 471
    Thank you: Very Exciting

    I had eagerly awaited the results of a similar large study at U Kansas recently led by Dr. Jeanne Drisko: the impact of IVC on gynecological cancers.

    Whatever the results, I cringed at the likely cost; in my region IVC costs about two hundred dollars a session.

    I later saw that results of the study suggested that IVC was far more effective in combination with chemo than AFTER chemo. I will try to find results of that large study; if anyone else can access them, please forward to our board.

    In the meantime, the possible synergy of C and Vitamin K promises some more effective results.

    As for the cost of such therapy, I too would like to know that the average cost is--a cost contingent on how often, ideally, the treatment should be administered.

    Thanks,
    Rosey
  • daisy366
    daisy366 Member Posts: 1,458
    RoseyR said:

    Thank you: Very Exciting

    I had eagerly awaited the results of a similar large study at U Kansas recently led by Dr. Jeanne Drisko: the impact of IVC on gynecological cancers.

    Whatever the results, I cringed at the likely cost; in my region IVC costs about two hundred dollars a session.

    I later saw that results of the study suggested that IVC was far more effective in combination with chemo than AFTER chemo. I will try to find results of that large study; if anyone else can access them, please forward to our board.

    In the meantime, the possible synergy of C and Vitamin K promises some more effective results.

    As for the cost of such therapy, I too would like to know that the average cost is--a cost contingent on how often, ideally, the treatment should be administered.

    Thanks,
    Rosey

    Jen
    maggie_wilson was getting this. She posted recently but did not mention her experience with this. You might try private emailing her if she does not respond here.

    Keep us posted on your mom's progress. Wishing all well, Mary Ann
  • strongformom
    strongformom Member Posts: 17
    daisy366 said:

    Jen
    maggie_wilson was getting this. She posted recently but did not mention her experience with this. You might try private emailing her if she does not respond here.

    Keep us posted on your mom's progress. Wishing all well, Mary Ann

    Thank you Daisy and Rosey
    Thank you both for sharing information about this.

    My mom's progress...she has passed her MUGA heart health scan and will begin her Doxorubicin chemo on this week if her blood tests are o.k. for it.

    I have tried to convince her to consider this Vitamin C IV therapy but my mom is very traditional and unless her doctor recommends it, she won't consider it. Given that her oncologist seems indifferent to CAM therapies, this is unlikely, but I have put it on my mom's radar and so that's all I can do. In addition, this is not a treatment offered at the Moores Cancer Center in San Diego as far as I can tell. She would have to travel out of town to receive it if she did want to go forward.

    Best wishes,
    Jennifer
  • Ro10
    Ro10 Member Posts: 1,561
    RoseyR said:

    Thank you: Very Exciting

    I had eagerly awaited the results of a similar large study at U Kansas recently led by Dr. Jeanne Drisko: the impact of IVC on gynecological cancers.

    Whatever the results, I cringed at the likely cost; in my region IVC costs about two hundred dollars a session.

    I later saw that results of the study suggested that IVC was far more effective in combination with chemo than AFTER chemo. I will try to find results of that large study; if anyone else can access them, please forward to our board.

    In the meantime, the possible synergy of C and Vitamin K promises some more effective results.

    As for the cost of such therapy, I too would like to know that the average cost is--a cost contingent on how often, ideally, the treatment should be administered.

    Thanks,
    Rosey

    Rosey I would be careful with Vitamin K
    Vitamin K causes blood coagulation. With my recent experience with blood clots in my lungs I would hesitate to take Vitamin K. Having cancer increases the risk of blood clots.
  • bea-mil
    bea-mil Member Posts: 108
    I had vit C and vit B17 IV
    I had vit C and vit B17 IV therapies over a year ago. Plus hydroperoxide IV and oxygenation.
    It was working for me but very expensive and I couldn't afford more than few sessions (4 months, every second week). It was done in Toronto, Canada.
  • janh_in_ontario
    janh_in_ontario Member Posts: 149 Member
    bea-mil said:

    I had vit C and vit B17 IV
    I had vit C and vit B17 IV therapies over a year ago. Plus hydroperoxide IV and oxygenation.
    It was working for me but very expensive and I couldn't afford more than few sessions (4 months, every second week). It was done in Toronto, Canada.

    In Toronto?
    Wow -- something actually was done in Toronto rather than US? I am shocked - we are usually behind by 10 years!
    jan
  • bea-mil
    bea-mil Member Posts: 108

    In Toronto?
    Wow -- something actually was done in Toronto rather than US? I am shocked - we are usually behind by 10 years!
    jan

    I live in GTA don't know
    I live in GTA don't know about USA but I have different opinion about Canada.

    There is a Total Health Show held in Toronto (Convention Centre)every year. You can get contacts, news, info and everything about good nutrition, living foods, herbs, natural supplements, diverse healing modalities, energy medicine, organic gardening and much more.
    I go there almost every year for last 15 years. Here is a link:
    http://totalhealthshow.com/showInfo/index.cfm
    Next one is in April.
  • janh_in_ontario
    janh_in_ontario Member Posts: 149 Member
    bea-mil said:

    I live in GTA don't know
    I live in GTA don't know about USA but I have different opinion about Canada.

    There is a Total Health Show held in Toronto (Convention Centre)every year. You can get contacts, news, info and everything about good nutrition, living foods, herbs, natural supplements, diverse healing modalities, energy medicine, organic gardening and much more.
    I go there almost every year for last 15 years. Here is a link:
    http://totalhealthshow.com/showInfo/index.cfm
    Next one is in April.

    Link
    Thanks! I will check it out. I thought this treatment was something within our medical system - which I find sadly lacking compared to the US. I have had a horrible experience so far on this journey... I am being treated out of Sunnybrook. Which hospital do you frequent?

    jan
  • RoseyR
    RoseyR Member Posts: 471
    Ro10 said:

    Rosey I would be careful with Vitamin K
    Vitamin K causes blood coagulation. With my recent experience with blood clots in my lungs I would hesitate to take Vitamin K. Having cancer increases the risk of blood clots.

    Vitamin K, blood viscosity, and cancer spread

    Ro, I am fairly sure that Vitamin K does the opposite of causing coagulation; I believe it THINS the blood, which is why when one is taking blood thinners, one is sometimes warned NOT to eat more greens than usual as they are so rich in Vitamin K.

    As for cancer "increasing the risk of blood clots, is this a cause and effect phenomenon or merely a correspondence? (The highly respected Dr. Keith Block, cancer expert, devotes an entire chapter of one of his books to "thick blood and thin blood," noting that cancer patients usually have THICK blood, sticky blood that not only makes them prone to clots but to easier spread of cancer cells and that one of the goals they need to aim for are foods and supplements that THIN the blood, which according to him and other sources miniizes the risk of metastasis.

    Hence garlic, onions, fish oil, curcumin, vitamin E succinate, and yes, greens, all thin the blood and hence are GOOD for us UNLESS our platelets are unusually low--a phase during which we need to cut back on these blood thinners.

    Perhaps this topic is so vital that it deserves its own post?

    Best,
    Rosey
  • Ro10
    Ro10 Member Posts: 1,561
    RoseyR said:

    Vitamin K, blood viscosity, and cancer spread

    Ro, I am fairly sure that Vitamin K does the opposite of causing coagulation; I believe it THINS the blood, which is why when one is taking blood thinners, one is sometimes warned NOT to eat more greens than usual as they are so rich in Vitamin K.

    As for cancer "increasing the risk of blood clots, is this a cause and effect phenomenon or merely a correspondence? (The highly respected Dr. Keith Block, cancer expert, devotes an entire chapter of one of his books to "thick blood and thin blood," noting that cancer patients usually have THICK blood, sticky blood that not only makes them prone to clots but to easier spread of cancer cells and that one of the goals they need to aim for are foods and supplements that THIN the blood, which according to him and other sources miniizes the risk of metastasis.

    Hence garlic, onions, fish oil, curcumin, vitamin E succinate, and yes, greens, all thin the blood and hence are GOOD for us UNLESS our platelets are unusually low--a phase during which we need to cut back on these blood thinners.

    Perhaps this topic is so vital that it deserves its own post?

    Best,
    Rosey

    Rosey, vitamin k can cause the blood to thicken
    People on oral blood thinners are advised not to eat an excess of foods high in vitamin k because it can effect their dosage of the medicine. Since I am taking the injections I don't have to watch what I eat.
  • bea-mil
    bea-mil Member Posts: 108

    Link
    Thanks! I will check it out. I thought this treatment was something within our medical system - which I find sadly lacking compared to the US. I have had a horrible experience so far on this journey... I am being treated out of Sunnybrook. Which hospital do you frequent?

    jan

    My surgery was done at St.
    My surgery was done at St. Joseph's Health Center but for all the check-ups I go to PMH (Princess Margaret Hospital). I have the same experience as you.
  • janh_in_ontario
    janh_in_ontario Member Posts: 149 Member
    bea-mil said:

    My surgery was done at St.
    My surgery was done at St. Joseph's Health Center but for all the check-ups I go to PMH (Princess Margaret Hospital). I have the same experience as you.

    How effective were the treatments?
    You mentioned you had some treatments in Toronto - were they effective? Where did you get them? Would they be covered under insurance? Would you recommend them? I would love to learn more!
    Thanks
    jan
  • janh_in_ontario
    janh_in_ontario Member Posts: 149 Member
    bea-mil said:

    My surgery was done at St.
    My surgery was done at St. Joseph's Health Center but for all the check-ups I go to PMH (Princess Margaret Hospital). I have the same experience as you.

    How effective were the treatments?
    You mentioned you had some treatments in Toronto - were they effective? Where did you get them? Would they be covered under insurance? Would you recommend them? I would love to learn more!
    Thanks
    jan
  • carolenk
    carolenk Member Posts: 907 Member
    bea-mil said:

    My surgery was done at St.
    My surgery was done at St. Joseph's Health Center but for all the check-ups I go to PMH (Princess Margaret Hospital). I have the same experience as you.

    I have to agree that Vitamin
    I have to agree that Vitamin K is necessary for healthy blood clotting rather than keeping blood "thin."

    I don't think Vitamin K promotes excessive clotting. Vitamin K3 is difficult to obtain & I would be very surprised if you find ANYONE who is administering Vitamin K3 IV.

    I have papillary serous ovarian cancer--very aggressive & persistent. I was diagnosed in August 2010 and only had a partial remission lasting 3 months. I have been taking IV Vitamin C treatments 2-3 times/week since October 2010.

    The cost is $85/each. The doctor is out of my insurance network & my insurance only covers treatments that are considered to be standard of care.

    I wish I could say something wonderful about my results. All I can say is that the treatment has kept me from having ascites while the cancer has slowly progressed. Without the IV Vitamin C treatments, the cancer would probably have progressed a lot faster. Just to give you an idea of how aggressive my cancer was, I had more tumors 4 weeks after my debulking surgery than I did before surgery!

    I am currently on carbo/gemcitabine...and still on the Vitamin C IVs.
  • daisy366
    daisy366 Member Posts: 1,458

    How effective were the treatments?
    You mentioned you had some treatments in Toronto - were they effective? Where did you get them? Would they be covered under insurance? Would you recommend them? I would love to learn more!
    Thanks
    jan

    Carolen
    Question: Does your gyn-onc know about the IV Vit C?

    During my original treatment I inquired about taking larger dose of Vit C to combat a cold and he told me no - because Vit C is an antioxidant and would interfere with chemo.

    I'm wondering if your Vit C treatments might be lowering the effectiveness of your chemo.

    Mary Ann
  • debrajo
    debrajo Member Posts: 1,095
    carolenk said:

    I have to agree that Vitamin
    I have to agree that Vitamin K is necessary for healthy blood clotting rather than keeping blood "thin."

    I don't think Vitamin K promotes excessive clotting. Vitamin K3 is difficult to obtain & I would be very surprised if you find ANYONE who is administering Vitamin K3 IV.

    I have papillary serous ovarian cancer--very aggressive & persistent. I was diagnosed in August 2010 and only had a partial remission lasting 3 months. I have been taking IV Vitamin C treatments 2-3 times/week since October 2010.

    The cost is $85/each. The doctor is out of my insurance network & my insurance only covers treatments that are considered to be standard of care.

    I wish I could say something wonderful about my results. All I can say is that the treatment has kept me from having ascites while the cancer has slowly progressed. Without the IV Vitamin C treatments, the cancer would probably have progressed a lot faster. Just to give you an idea of how aggressive my cancer was, I had more tumors 4 weeks after my debulking surgery than I did before surgery!

    I am currently on carbo/gemcitabine...and still on the Vitamin C IVs.

    vitamin K
    When I was little vitamin K was given to everyone who was to under go surgery to help clot the blood. It was given to me before I had my tonsils out because then a lot of children were bleeding to death. Just saying! (This was in the early 60's)
  • carolenk
    carolenk Member Posts: 907 Member
    daisy366 said:

    Carolen
    Question: Does your gyn-onc know about the IV Vit C?

    During my original treatment I inquired about taking larger dose of Vit C to combat a cold and he told me no - because Vit C is an antioxidant and would interfere with chemo.

    I'm wondering if your Vit C treatments might be lowering the effectiveness of your chemo.

    Mary Ann

    The gyn/onc is fully aware
    The gyn/onc is fully aware of all the extra stuff I'm doing. I responded really quickly to the first-line chemo regarding the CA-125 level dropping from 5 digits to single digits in 6 months. Wouldn't that be an indication as to whether the chemo was working or not?

    I didn't have the Vitamin C treatments the day before chemo, the day of chemo or the day after chemo. Considering the short half life of chemo, that was enough to avoid chemo-interference. The doctor was OK with that.

    I just wasn't able to keep the CA-125 from climbing again in 3 months. I think the IV Vitamin C treatments are more effective when given with chemo & maybe even prevent chemoresistance. Carboplatin is still working for me even though "by the book" I am supposed to be classified as resistant to carbo.

    Thanks for the question. Let me know if you more ideas.
  • RoseyR
    RoseyR Member Posts: 471
    carolenk said:

    The gyn/onc is fully aware
    The gyn/onc is fully aware of all the extra stuff I'm doing. I responded really quickly to the first-line chemo regarding the CA-125 level dropping from 5 digits to single digits in 6 months. Wouldn't that be an indication as to whether the chemo was working or not?

    I didn't have the Vitamin C treatments the day before chemo, the day of chemo or the day after chemo. Considering the short half life of chemo, that was enough to avoid chemo-interference. The doctor was OK with that.

    I just wasn't able to keep the CA-125 from climbing again in 3 months. I think the IV Vitamin C treatments are more effective when given with chemo & maybe even prevent chemoresistance. Carboplatin is still working for me even though "by the book" I am supposed to be classified as resistant to carbo.

    Thanks for the question. Let me know if you more ideas.

    IV C and blood clotting

    Two issues:

    My earliest post above confirms that according to Drisco's major study of antioxidants and gynecological cancers at U of Kansas a few years ago, yes, intravenous C seems more effective during than after chemo.

    If I got it wrong about Vitamin K, sorry; will check my references. (Just recalled how often I was warned NOT to eat "more greens than usual" when I was taking anti-clot medication. Thought that greens were a major source of vitamin K and that therefore they would help to thin our blood.)

    Will go back to check sources on all of this; thanks for suggesting I may have erred on this one.

    Rosey
  • RoseyR
    RoseyR Member Posts: 471
    carolenk said:

    The gyn/onc is fully aware
    The gyn/onc is fully aware of all the extra stuff I'm doing. I responded really quickly to the first-line chemo regarding the CA-125 level dropping from 5 digits to single digits in 6 months. Wouldn't that be an indication as to whether the chemo was working or not?

    I didn't have the Vitamin C treatments the day before chemo, the day of chemo or the day after chemo. Considering the short half life of chemo, that was enough to avoid chemo-interference. The doctor was OK with that.

    I just wasn't able to keep the CA-125 from climbing again in 3 months. I think the IV Vitamin C treatments are more effective when given with chemo & maybe even prevent chemoresistance. Carboplatin is still working for me even though "by the book" I am supposed to be classified as resistant to carbo.

    Thanks for the question. Let me know if you more ideas.

    IV C and blood clotting

    Two issues:

    My earliest post above confirms that according to Drisco's major study of antioxidants and gynecological cancers at U of Kansas a few years ago, yes, intravenous C seems more effective during than after chemo.

    If I got it wrong about Vitamin K, sorry; will check my references. (Just recalled how often I was warned NOT to eat "more greens than usual" when I was taking anti-clot medication. Thought that greens were a major source of vitamin K and that therefore they would help to thin our blood.)

    Will go back to check sources on all of this; thanks for suggesting I may have erred on this one.

    Rosey
  • RoseyR
    RoseyR Member Posts: 471
    carolenk said:

    The gyn/onc is fully aware
    The gyn/onc is fully aware of all the extra stuff I'm doing. I responded really quickly to the first-line chemo regarding the CA-125 level dropping from 5 digits to single digits in 6 months. Wouldn't that be an indication as to whether the chemo was working or not?

    I didn't have the Vitamin C treatments the day before chemo, the day of chemo or the day after chemo. Considering the short half life of chemo, that was enough to avoid chemo-interference. The doctor was OK with that.

    I just wasn't able to keep the CA-125 from climbing again in 3 months. I think the IV Vitamin C treatments are more effective when given with chemo & maybe even prevent chemoresistance. Carboplatin is still working for me even though "by the book" I am supposed to be classified as resistant to carbo.

    Thanks for the question. Let me know if you more ideas.

    IV C and blood clotting

    Two issues:

    My earliest post above confirms that according to Drisco's major study of antioxidants and gynecological cancers at U of Kansas a few years ago, yes, intravenous C seems more effective during than after chemo.

    If I got it wrong about Vitamin K, sorry; will check my references. (Just recalled how often I was warned NOT to eat "more greens than usual" when I was taking anti-clot medication. Thought that greens were a major source of vitamin K and that therefore they would help to thin our blood.)

    Will go back to check sources on all of this; thanks for suggesting I may have erred on this one.

    Rosey