How do I return from caretaker to lover!
Comments
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You're on your way
Homer it certainly sounds like you are attuned to the delicateness of the situation. It also sounds like the two of you are communicating about the need to address the issue. I predict that the two of you will discover the new normals of sex together as time goes on in whatever capacity is right for the two of you. Being male and the cancer patient I don't have the same perspective. I think just by posting here you show a willingness to work it out which you have to communicate to Connie. I suspect the womenfolk/caretakers will be along shortly with some real insight.0 -
VERY OPEN AND FRANK COMMUNICATION
Homer, I know from reading all of your posts that your unconditional love for Connie is genuine and alive and well.
My wife was the caretaker and for 6 months I was too sick to even think about what her sexual needs were, or how she was dealing with going from a great sex life to zero overnight.
We eventually discussed it and we found out the best way to start again was to jump righ back in and see where it took us.
I know if any couple will work this out, it will be the two of you.
Best
Mike0 -
Communication
As others have mentioned and you yourself, communication is always key.
You are both in it for the long haul. But you are right, things have changed... But you are both on the right track..
Start rebuilding your relationship again on the foundation you already have. Do date nights, where it's just the both of you and spending time together re-establishing the romantic side of your relationshp, no outside distractions.
Work on the affection part, but don't let it control you if that isn't how you have always been...be yourself, the guy your wife knows and loves and has always been. Don't be something you're not...if it's forced it won't work, it's not who you are.
If you both are like my wife and I, we are friends first and foremost. People where we work (we work at the same place only different floors), can't understand us. They can't seem to grasp that we are so close...LOL, we ride tgether and lunch together, and even take a walking break together many days... LOL, God forbid you have fun and enjoy spending time with your wife/husband.... They seem to think we should get tired of being around each other.
It works for us, I have my days of fishing on the weekends, she does her pedicure, or whatever on those days. We have enough of a break during those times...but we still eat lunch or breakfast spent time even on those days, LOL....
I'm sure you guys will get back into the groove...give it time and just allow yourself to move back into the couple side of your relationship.
Best,
John0 -
Hi Homer
Very hard indeed, I know with all my treatments when I look in the mirror I never see the man I once was. All I see now is skin pulled over some old bones and it gets me very depressed because I can’t be what I once was. Even when I go to the bath room my butt is so small now I fall through the toilet seat, so now I have to sit on just one side, I look and wonder how can that turn anyone on. After radiation twice and Chemo nothing in the body works like it once did that is the problem, but it does work sometimes and to me that is where the miracle is. More then likely I was a lot like you before my treatment just not very affectionate to my Wife. But now after all this stuff I find I am a lot more affectionate and I bring her flower, open doors for her, tell how nice she looks, and tell her how much I love her for all she has done for me. Sometimes a spark may start over this and turn into a flame, other times the spark just dies out, but we are still there holding on to each other.
I am not sure if any of this will help you, but I find just being with my wife now is my new normal. A lot of what others have said is so correct; Communication is very importance. Open up to each other, and let her know your needs and ask her what her needs are. I been with my Wife now 37 years and hoping for 25 or 30 more
Wishing you the best my friend
Hondo0 -
Could we send Connie anHondo said:Hi Homer
Very hard indeed, I know with all my treatments when I look in the mirror I never see the man I once was. All I see now is skin pulled over some old bones and it gets me very depressed because I can’t be what I once was. Even when I go to the bath room my butt is so small now I fall through the toilet seat, so now I have to sit on just one side, I look and wonder how can that turn anyone on. After radiation twice and Chemo nothing in the body works like it once did that is the problem, but it does work sometimes and to me that is where the miracle is. More then likely I was a lot like you before my treatment just not very affectionate to my Wife. But now after all this stuff I find I am a lot more affectionate and I bring her flower, open doors for her, tell how nice she looks, and tell her how much I love her for all she has done for me. Sometimes a spark may start over this and turn into a flame, other times the spark just dies out, but we are still there holding on to each other.
I am not sure if any of this will help you, but I find just being with my wife now is my new normal. A lot of what others have said is so correct; Communication is very importance. Open up to each other, and let her know your needs and ask her what her needs are. I been with my Wife now 37 years and hoping for 25 or 30 more
Wishing you the best my friend
Hondo
Could we send Connie an email directly?
Stacey0 -
Lovemaking post-C
Homer,
I would say the first thing you have to do is talk to Connie. There's no mind-reading here. You need to talk and laugh and find the ways to express love. You may find that it comes in different ways now. A gentle massage. A change of positions. Taking it slow. You're both different now and you have to find for each of you, "the new you". Connie needs to express how she feels about herself physically and you. You need to express how you feel about yourself and her. You each have "needs" and you each have self-image thoughts. The only thing you can do is to talk it out. My wife and I refer to it as, "another phase in our marriage." For example...
Dating:
...Will she let you see you without make-up on?
...Will she eat something messy in front of you?
Relationship:
...When is it OK to fart in the same room as her?
...Will she burp in front of you?
...Does she not jump out of bed before you wake up to make herself "presentable"?
Engagement:
...Is she willing to shave your back?
...Will she tell you how your cooking REALLY tastes?
Early Marriage:
...Will either of you take a noisy dump with the other just outside the bathroom?
...Will she still give you a bj? (Doubtful. Once they say "I do", they usually don't.) ;-)
...Will you change nasty bandage/dressings after the other has had surgery?
Mid-Marriage:
...Are you willing to kiss in the morning before brushing your teeth?
...Do you negotiate sex for diaper-changing turns?
...Will you shave your wife's head after she gets Alopecia?
That last one is kind of our own. My wife has been having some auto-immune issues. First it was Alopecia. Her hair started to fall out. First in patches and then entirely all over her entire body. Hair, eyebrows, eyelashes - all gone. At one point she asked me to shave her head so she could be GI Jane instead of Gollum. That was definately a new phase in our marriage. After that we had a lot of talking about making love. Does she feel sexy enough about herself to want to have sex with no hair. (She was willing to try and we soon discovered that with different wigs, it was cool for me too. It's like sleeping with different women. One night it's the brunette, then a redhead and maybe a long-haired blonde!) One day she might even be willing to make love without a wig and bald. Honestly - I wouldn't mind. You'ld be surprised what can turn you on after a while. ;-)
Now she's dealing with some serious IBS and inestinal problems. We have had sex in 3 months. We've tried, but it usually doesn't last very long as she has to immediately take off to the bathroom. So we cuddle. I give her gentle massages. We lie together nakede drinking mudslides, getting drunk and fooling around as watch Airplane! and laugh our **** off. We bide our time waiting for when we're both back to health again. She's given me a "free pass", but for the past 10 years, I've never taken advantage of it. We've been together 21 years and I'm locked in. Whipped and happy about it. If I need a release, there's always the Internet. It's not the same, but so long as we're still in love, together and understand each other...
It's been a rough past 18 months for our love-life. First me with cancer and now her auto-immune stuff. But we figure it's only about 2 years out of 75. Less than 3% of our time together. I'm willing to have a crappy sex life for that little amount of time for her and she for me.
Talk it out. Find ways. Be patient. Learn to adapt. Go slow and explore the new yous. Love outlasts everything. You'll be OK!0 -
brave man
You have already won half the battle by bringing up such a delicate topic! Seems like everyone agrees that sex is overrated right now. Love and affection seem to be so much more important for both patient and caregiver. Going through this battle together brings couples closer than any amount of sex could. And, if sex happens, great. But, I rate talking, sharing, affection, laughter, etc. much higher!
You are obviously doing a great job at caregiving!0 -
More "new normals"
No, your sex life is unlikely to be "old normal" again but you can strive to settle into that "new normal" - that won't happen overnight.
There's been plenty of good advice here, so I'll try to avoid repeating it. Some folks have certain expectations of what sex should be like - according to the movies, it should be: foreplay, intercourse, orgasms, sigh (lather, rinse, repeat). That's fine, especially if it works for both. However, you can have a rich sex life without that exact recipe.
Finding the right recipes takes communication - help, in the form of therapy, might not be a bad idea. Ideally, you want to find paths to share intimacy and pleasure in ways that suit both your needs and comfort levels. It sounds like Connie wants to know that she is still attractive to you; while wanting to share sex certainly conveys this message, you might look into other ways. Couples massage classes are big these days - it can be a lot easier to believe that your spouse still worships your body when he's spending 30 minutes kneading various non-sexy muscles.
On the caregiver site, we've discussed some aspects of all of this - you might consider getting opinions there, as well as the perspective from the H&N folks. Doug is traveling, so it might take a while before he posts here - I suspect Doug (like Hondo) worried that the loss of his David-like muscular form lessened his attraction. He never stopped looking great to me - I am still in awe of what an amazing man he is, inside and out. I sometimes find it hard to believe that, despite the fact that I have become even older and dumpier-looking in the last year, he is still attracted to me. . . but I'm not going to go questioning such a good thing.0 -
First, you deserve a lot ofDrMary said:More "new normals"
No, your sex life is unlikely to be "old normal" again but you can strive to settle into that "new normal" - that won't happen overnight.
There's been plenty of good advice here, so I'll try to avoid repeating it. Some folks have certain expectations of what sex should be like - according to the movies, it should be: foreplay, intercourse, orgasms, sigh (lather, rinse, repeat). That's fine, especially if it works for both. However, you can have a rich sex life without that exact recipe.
Finding the right recipes takes communication - help, in the form of therapy, might not be a bad idea. Ideally, you want to find paths to share intimacy and pleasure in ways that suit both your needs and comfort levels. It sounds like Connie wants to know that she is still attractive to you; while wanting to share sex certainly conveys this message, you might look into other ways. Couples massage classes are big these days - it can be a lot easier to believe that your spouse still worships your body when he's spending 30 minutes kneading various non-sexy muscles.
On the caregiver site, we've discussed some aspects of all of this - you might consider getting opinions there, as well as the perspective from the H&N folks. Doug is traveling, so it might take a while before he posts here - I suspect Doug (like Hondo) worried that the loss of his David-like muscular form lessened his attraction. He never stopped looking great to me - I am still in awe of what an amazing man he is, inside and out. I sometimes find it hard to believe that, despite the fact that I have become even older and dumpier-looking in the last year, he is still attracted to me. . . but I'm not going to go questioning such a good thing.
First, you deserve a lot of credit for asking this question.
From the other side, I'll say that I just don't feel all that sexual even though I feel relatively well. My body just feels different and things take a little more work. The residuary pains or soreness just distract from feeling sexual and romantic. I'm also just more tired.
So it may be timing, from a fatigue perspective. It may be intimacy that isn't as physical.
To be completely honest, I also find the sex issue difficult because I know that I have cancer because of something I likely did sexually. Maybe it was kissing, but maybe it was something more that meant HPV ended up in my mouth and gave me cancer. That doesn't really ever go out of my mind when I'm being intimate and sexual.0 -
Radiation
I believe they radiate the sex life right out of us, to put it mildly. Then taking pain pills don’t help as it numbs the pain and any emotions that travel to the brain by the nerves.
I am glad someone finally ask the question about sex and the what after.
Hondo0 -
Hi Dr MaryDrMary said:More "new normals"
No, your sex life is unlikely to be "old normal" again but you can strive to settle into that "new normal" - that won't happen overnight.
There's been plenty of good advice here, so I'll try to avoid repeating it. Some folks have certain expectations of what sex should be like - according to the movies, it should be: foreplay, intercourse, orgasms, sigh (lather, rinse, repeat). That's fine, especially if it works for both. However, you can have a rich sex life without that exact recipe.
Finding the right recipes takes communication - help, in the form of therapy, might not be a bad idea. Ideally, you want to find paths to share intimacy and pleasure in ways that suit both your needs and comfort levels. It sounds like Connie wants to know that she is still attractive to you; while wanting to share sex certainly conveys this message, you might look into other ways. Couples massage classes are big these days - it can be a lot easier to believe that your spouse still worships your body when he's spending 30 minutes kneading various non-sexy muscles.
On the caregiver site, we've discussed some aspects of all of this - you might consider getting opinions there, as well as the perspective from the H&N folks. Doug is traveling, so it might take a while before he posts here - I suspect Doug (like Hondo) worried that the loss of his David-like muscular form lessened his attraction. He never stopped looking great to me - I am still in awe of what an amazing man he is, inside and out. I sometimes find it hard to believe that, despite the fact that I have become even older and dumpier-looking in the last year, he is still attracted to me. . . but I'm not going to go questioning such a good thing.
So right as a Man looking like a man is to me so very importance. As much as a woman puts on make-up and gets her hair to look good so she feels pretty, it is the same with us. The second radiation just killed me as all I want to see is my muscles and make the He-man noises of the Alpha Male again, but when I look and see myself it is hard to get excited about anything. But I am not giving up, I know I need to keep working and doing all I can to get this old body back to some kind of normal. I may not be what I once was but I can be something close to it if I keep trying. If I can only put on some weight that will help and that is one of the main reasons I thinking about getting a PEG tube.
Wishing you and Doug the very best
Hondo0 -
Crazy letter!
I want to thank EVERYONE for their comments. I hope it wasn't mis-understood about the sex. I have been ok without it. Connie was the one that wondered why I never made a move in bed. This topic is one of the hardest for me to express myself. Our partnership is fine, we have been partners for 27 years, it is our intimacy that is out of whack. I know everything will work out and I guess I just need to be more conscientious of Connie's feelings. It breaks my heart that the treatments aged her so much, sometimes people we know don't recognize her. We have always been young, we love to dance, we love to party and maybe we just need to get back to what we enjoy. Cancer is no fun and it has taken a toll on both of us but of course it has been 10 times harder on her. I think if she can gain back her weight it will make a big difference. Connie's top two front teeth were predominate and her top denture is perfect but I would rather they not be perfect and look more like her natural teeth. Her hair started growing like a weed at first but now it doesn't seem to be growing any longer and I can't figure out why. Now I know that letting these little things bother me is petty but I want Connie to look good and she also wants to look good. Hell for that matter I want to look good, as we all do. I will work hard for Connie to go to a cosmetic dentist, see a plastic surgeon or any other treatment she would want. We are in our middle 50's, I can't let cancer take away my wife's youthful appearance. I know you guys and ladies probably think I'm crazy, and if I wasn't before cancer I probably am now but this is my honest viewpoint. I know she doesn't like looking older so 1st she needs to gain the weight back. 2nd. We will see a cosmetic dentist. 3rd. We will look at cosmetic surgery. Not to make her look young, just to get her back where she was. Cancer tried to rob Connie of her life, then tried to rob her of good health, and now it wants to rob her of her youthful appearance. I don't want to give that sleazy, sneaky, backstabbin disease nothing. I don't want her to beat cancer but kick it's teeth down it's throat. We realize it can come back but we have to live, enjoy her good health and look good doing it for as long as we are on this Earth. Connie has been blessed and I thank God for everything he has done for us but I know he wants us to enjoy life. OK enough venting, We love EVERYONE here, Homer & Connie0 -
Her beauty is withinconnieprice1 said:Crazy letter!
I want to thank EVERYONE for their comments. I hope it wasn't mis-understood about the sex. I have been ok without it. Connie was the one that wondered why I never made a move in bed. This topic is one of the hardest for me to express myself. Our partnership is fine, we have been partners for 27 years, it is our intimacy that is out of whack. I know everything will work out and I guess I just need to be more conscientious of Connie's feelings. It breaks my heart that the treatments aged her so much, sometimes people we know don't recognize her. We have always been young, we love to dance, we love to party and maybe we just need to get back to what we enjoy. Cancer is no fun and it has taken a toll on both of us but of course it has been 10 times harder on her. I think if she can gain back her weight it will make a big difference. Connie's top two front teeth were predominate and her top denture is perfect but I would rather they not be perfect and look more like her natural teeth. Her hair started growing like a weed at first but now it doesn't seem to be growing any longer and I can't figure out why. Now I know that letting these little things bother me is petty but I want Connie to look good and she also wants to look good. Hell for that matter I want to look good, as we all do. I will work hard for Connie to go to a cosmetic dentist, see a plastic surgeon or any other treatment she would want. We are in our middle 50's, I can't let cancer take away my wife's youthful appearance. I know you guys and ladies probably think I'm crazy, and if I wasn't before cancer I probably am now but this is my honest viewpoint. I know she doesn't like looking older so 1st she needs to gain the weight back. 2nd. We will see a cosmetic dentist. 3rd. We will look at cosmetic surgery. Not to make her look young, just to get her back where she was. Cancer tried to rob Connie of her life, then tried to rob her of good health, and now it wants to rob her of her youthful appearance. I don't want to give that sleazy, sneaky, backstabbin disease nothing. I don't want her to beat cancer but kick it's teeth down it's throat. We realize it can come back but we have to live, enjoy her good health and look good doing it for as long as we are on this Earth. Connie has been blessed and I thank God for everything he has done for us but I know he wants us to enjoy life. OK enough venting, We love EVERYONE here, Homer & Connie
I know that you and possibly she feel that she doesn't resemble the woman going into treatment...
But I'm sure given time her youthfulness will return. Once she starts feeling normal again, be it new or old normal.
Somewhere along the line, I have lost that differentiation. I did have a "new" normal initially and for the first year or year an half.
But now going into my third year post Dx... I pretty much feel that I am the same as before Tx.
Sure, I have a few battle scars, and maybe I'm lucky compared to some as for recovery. I don't know, you can never really understand what someone else is going through. I mean we have all battled this and survived in various stages. But we all take something different out of it.
I'd give any physical changes awhile...the need to get the mental part down first is very important in my opinion. Once the positive mental feel good about yourself attitude is back the body will follow.
Best Always,
John0 -
Wise counsel from the Middle EastSkiffin16 said:Her beauty is within
I know that you and possibly she feel that she doesn't resemble the woman going into treatment...
But I'm sure given time her youthfulness will return. Once she starts feeling normal again, be it new or old normal.
Somewhere along the line, I have lost that differentiation. I did have a "new" normal initially and for the first year or year an half.
But now going into my third year post Dx... I pretty much feel that I am the same as before Tx.
Sure, I have a few battle scars, and maybe I'm lucky compared to some as for recovery. I don't know, you can never really understand what someone else is going through. I mean we have all battled this and survived in various stages. But we all take something different out of it.
I'd give any physical changes awhile...the need to get the mental part down first is very important in my opinion. Once the positive mental feel good about yourself attitude is back the body will follow.
Best Always,
John
Well, yes, I write this from Beirut so any reward I might earn from DrMary for saying wonderful things will have to wait a bit. Nevertheless, I will jump in here. Or put my foot in it, perhaps.
I was lucky in that, despite nine weeks of rads and chemos and immense sickness, I lost 40+ pounds but not “it” if you catch my drift. On the rare occasions then when I was well enough to function (generally, not just in bed) and was able to stay awake, things were the same but also different. Yes, Hondo, I was so skinny that I had to be careful not to fall in on the toilet and I knew that I was not terribly attractive in the classic way, not like David but more like Robinson Crusoe. (Actually, one funny thing was that when I was so immensely skinny, things didn’t take as long as previously. Thankfully, this has remedied as I gained back the weight.)
But my wife had tremendous patience with me and one way I could certainly show my appreciation was to act on the attraction I still felt. And also, without wanting to sound like I give license to selfish behavior, it can be immensely satisfying to your partner that you are satisfied and have both enjoyed as well as desired. So, be free to enjoy yourself and let her know it. There was also probably some element of relief that despite the depths of our fear some parts of our previous good life endured.
Now, a year out of treatment (last week!) it can be immensely satisfying to cuddle and hear her breathe and be warm and be grateful that she saved me. (Note, I didn’t say “AS satisfying…")
And who among us looks like they did at 25, anyway? Even now, while I think I look good, I have the grey hairs and the scars (not just the big one on the neck), and the wrinkles to prove that the decades have taken their toll. Need I say that attraction is not solely based on today’s looks, it can also be because of the person she is inside.
So, enjoy your intimacy in different ways and not just “lather, rinse, repeat”.
Anyway, it’s midnight here in the Middle East and I have work tomorrow. Saving the world starts early. Good night, all. Doug
(and I have to change that picture again now that Thanksgiving has passed.)0 -
HomerGoalie said:Wise counsel from the Middle East
Well, yes, I write this from Beirut so any reward I might earn from DrMary for saying wonderful things will have to wait a bit. Nevertheless, I will jump in here. Or put my foot in it, perhaps.
I was lucky in that, despite nine weeks of rads and chemos and immense sickness, I lost 40+ pounds but not “it” if you catch my drift. On the rare occasions then when I was well enough to function (generally, not just in bed) and was able to stay awake, things were the same but also different. Yes, Hondo, I was so skinny that I had to be careful not to fall in on the toilet and I knew that I was not terribly attractive in the classic way, not like David but more like Robinson Crusoe. (Actually, one funny thing was that when I was so immensely skinny, things didn’t take as long as previously. Thankfully, this has remedied as I gained back the weight.)
But my wife had tremendous patience with me and one way I could certainly show my appreciation was to act on the attraction I still felt. And also, without wanting to sound like I give license to selfish behavior, it can be immensely satisfying to your partner that you are satisfied and have both enjoyed as well as desired. So, be free to enjoy yourself and let her know it. There was also probably some element of relief that despite the depths of our fear some parts of our previous good life endured.
Now, a year out of treatment (last week!) it can be immensely satisfying to cuddle and hear her breathe and be warm and be grateful that she saved me. (Note, I didn’t say “AS satisfying…")
And who among us looks like they did at 25, anyway? Even now, while I think I look good, I have the grey hairs and the scars (not just the big one on the neck), and the wrinkles to prove that the decades have taken their toll. Need I say that attraction is not solely based on today’s looks, it can also be because of the person she is inside.
So, enjoy your intimacy in different ways and not just “lather, rinse, repeat”.
Anyway, it’s midnight here in the Middle East and I have work tomorrow. Saving the world starts early. Good night, all. Doug
(and I have to change that picture again now that Thanksgiving has passed.)
Hi Homer,
No advice from me here. I can only say that I relate to others about the self esteem thing. Went from 215# to 150# and all I saw in the mirror was this sickly dude that I did not recognize and thought could not be seen as sexy. Have made it back up to 175# and even though I still think of myself as a skeeter-butt now, I do feel a little better about how I look (stll not sexy thou, then again - never was). I know that is not the ultimate goal, but it is something we or at least I have thought about. Knowing you and what a thoughtful person you are, I'm sure you and Connie will work through this.
Glad to hear Connie is doing well!
Positive thoughts!
Greg0 -
To Homer
Your post is very interesting and I'd like to share a little of what it feels as a wife to have had cancer twice. My husband and I also are best friends as well as husband and wife. No one gets me like he does but sometimes I have to tell him what's bothering me. I've lost quite a lot of weight, as most of us have, and he kept telling me that I needed to gain, eat more, etc. I've been trying real hard and have gained back a little. Finally he has stopped mentioning it. Also, I have those lovely scars on my neck and under my chin, plus the trach scar, g-tube scar, c-section scar, etc. These scars make me feel so ugly. The only thing I have going for me is my hair is long again and I color it blond and get compliments on it.
Well, my husband is not bothered by the scars, has let up about my weight, and admires how far I've come through all this. Once in a while he'll comment about that I've been through so much. In some ways this whole experience has enriched our marriage and commitment. We are now more precious to each other.
Because I now feel totally acceptable to him, I feel even more loving. For women, sex is started in the brain. We have to feel good about ourselves to be "in the mood". We have a new normal in our relations and I long for the old days and old ways of doing things but so far we've had 33 great years together and I hope many more.
So my advice to you is to accept that your wife has a "new normal" now and don't expect everything to go back to the way it was. Listen to what she tells you and just try to make her feel special and beautiful just the way she is. You have to woo her to help her get in the mood.
God bless you. You sound like a very caring man.
Peeps0
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