clinical trial adomet (SAMe) helps heal folfocked liver damage UPDATE not phase 3 study

pete43lost_at_sea
pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
edited May 2011 in Colorectal Cancer #1
hope for all new folfoxers

sorry but folfox can really damage your liver, in case your onc failed to advice you.

see the study, this is from 2003 and a more recent from 2011 why am i the only digging up the relevant trials that can save our butts. our survival is supposed to be a team effort.
posted this on colonclub as well. not in either of our archives.

here we go again.................

i am still smiling in my picture.

2011 study folfoxiv
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21406026

2003 study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14981985

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Liver toxicity can be observed during treatment with most chemotherapic agents, and represents one of the principal causes of dose reduction or chemotherapy delays. S-Adenosylmethionine (AdoMet) plays a critical role in the synthesis of polyamines and provides cysteine for the production of glutathione (GSH), the major endogenous hepatoprotective agent. Our study was aimed at assessing the protective effect of AdoMet supplementation in cancer chemotherapy-induced liver toxicity.

PATIENTS AND METHODS: Fifty cancer patients who developed, for the first time, anticancer chemotherapy-induced liver toxicity were studied. Enrolled patients received oral AdoMet supplementation.

RESULTS: AST, ALT and LDH levels recorded at the moment of the recognition of liver toxicity were significantly reduced after one week of AdoMet therapy (respectively p: 0.009, 0.0005 and 0.012). AST, ALT and LDH decrease was confirmed after two weeks of treatment. Furthermore, the effect on these enzyme levels persisted in the following chemotherapy courses, permitting our patients to perform the scheduled chemotherapy courses with a minimal number of dose reductions or administration delays. The efficacy of AdoMet supplementation was not influenced by the presence of liver metastases, and no appreciable side-effects were recognized.

CONCLUSION: The results of our study clearly demonstrate a protective effect of AdoMet in cancer chemotherapy-induced liver toxicity. Further large phase III studies are required to assess the real clinical benefit associated with AdoMet supplementation

UPDATE discussed SAMe adoment with naturopath 1 thersa, it may stimulate the liver detox which may prematurely get folfox out of your earlier, which may reduce its effectivess. this is just a comment that needs to be included. also changed the title from fixes to helps heal, which is more accurate.
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Comments

  • Livingbyfaith
    Livingbyfaith Member Posts: 55
    SAM-E
    We love this product, its a mood enhancer, never knew this information. Thanks.
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900

    SAM-E
    We love this product, its a mood enhancer, never knew this information. Thanks.

    thanks livingbyfaith
    i am happy now as well despite the dramas.
    this product has been around for years, the trials since dam 2003.

    everyone suffered more folfox liver damage needlessly, ignorance kills

    why don't the onc care ?

    guess what after the new study, i bet this will be standard protocol 5 years after big clinical studies.

    how much suffering in the mean time and stress.

    this is the news that really saves lives.

    gee we would not need to support each nearly half as much if our treatmeants were not
    so shiitty, an once of prevention hey ??

    thanks for the feedback and reading.

    a common food supplement thats proven to help us while fighting cancer on folfox.
    not one good comment. guess all heads are in the sand.
    besides yours, speaks volumes about the awareness and appreciation here for this type
    of research. its why its never been found before.

    glad your on it,

    i am glad i am on it now at least.

    wish some on this board new about this earlier, wish my onc mentioned it!
    wish i knew about it earlier!

    never mind no use crying over spilt milk.

    some said oh wait a year and your bloods will pickup

    i say why not wait a week and take SAMe

    hugs,

    pete
  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625
    Sam-e
    Interesting about Sam-e... prior to going on antidepressants, my kids and hubby were all taking Sam-e (I think the 400 mg tabs) & it really did help my son and youngest daughter, but older daughter and husband didn't notice much improvement. It was really helping the two kids though for about a year until they needed something a bit heavier duty. I had taken Sam-e myself for awhile but have forgotten about it lately. Maybe I should start up on it again- there really are no known side effects from it and I could use a mood booster much of the time lately. If it will also help the liver, well then it's an added bonus! Interestingly, when I first mentioned to the psychiatrist my daughters were going to that they had been on Sam-e, he said he never heard of it. That seems pretty stupid and out of it to me- can't believe he was that locked into only knowing about pharmacy drugs and nothing else.
    Sam-e is a naturally occuring chemical in the brain & there are many things that can cause a depletion of it, contributing to depression and mood swings.
    Interesting new things learned all the time, huh?!

    Lisa
  • lisa42 said:

    Sam-e
    Interesting about Sam-e... prior to going on antidepressants, my kids and hubby were all taking Sam-e (I think the 400 mg tabs) & it really did help my son and youngest daughter, but older daughter and husband didn't notice much improvement. It was really helping the two kids though for about a year until they needed something a bit heavier duty. I had taken Sam-e myself for awhile but have forgotten about it lately. Maybe I should start up on it again- there really are no known side effects from it and I could use a mood booster much of the time lately. If it will also help the liver, well then it's an added bonus! Interestingly, when I first mentioned to the psychiatrist my daughters were going to that they had been on Sam-e, he said he never heard of it. That seems pretty stupid and out of it to me- can't believe he was that locked into only knowing about pharmacy drugs and nothing else.
    Sam-e is a naturally occuring chemical in the brain & there are many things that can cause a depletion of it, contributing to depression and mood swings.
    Interesting new things learned all the time, huh?!

    Lisa

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    been on both for 2 days now, feel better than fine
    hi gracie,

    even the board dramas don't get me down. samE mood upper , liver fixer. colorectal wonder food.

    its very expensive, anyone found a good value internet supplier.
    for me about $200 per month based 4 caps per day. don't plan to be on this long term.

    its just what i need. it may help others, but please check with your dietician not your doctor as its a food supplement.

    is this amazing or what?
    hugs,
    pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    lisa42 said:

    Sam-e
    Interesting about Sam-e... prior to going on antidepressants, my kids and hubby were all taking Sam-e (I think the 400 mg tabs) & it really did help my son and youngest daughter, but older daughter and husband didn't notice much improvement. It was really helping the two kids though for about a year until they needed something a bit heavier duty. I had taken Sam-e myself for awhile but have forgotten about it lately. Maybe I should start up on it again- there really are no known side effects from it and I could use a mood booster much of the time lately. If it will also help the liver, well then it's an added bonus! Interestingly, when I first mentioned to the psychiatrist my daughters were going to that they had been on Sam-e, he said he never heard of it. That seems pretty stupid and out of it to me- can't believe he was that locked into only knowing about pharmacy drugs and nothing else.
    Sam-e is a naturally occuring chemical in the brain & there are many things that can cause a depletion of it, contributing to depression and mood swings.
    Interesting new things learned all the time, huh?!

    Lisa

    new things all the time
    i made this post separate as its specific to folfox,but maybe also applies other chemos!

    sets an interesting precident in my opinion.

    if we all begged and insisted that onc do more to mitagate side effects.

    my diarrhea battle another example.

    its so ironic that you were on samE for it mind benefits not its liver, but it was doing both anyway, so you have tested it already, how are your liver numbers ??

    would love some anecdotal results. lucky this is just a food!!!!hehehehe

    hugs,
    pete


    ps note for advice sandra cabot liver guru
    dear sandra,
    i am winning my battle with bowel cancer based on your liver and bowel book, i have followed your program to the letter. thanks. now i have finished 6 months folfoxchemo.
    i am taking 17mg milk thistle and samE x 4 200mg
    my ast alt ggt are all double and triple upper bounds and my platlettes crashed to 115.
    any conflict milk this and samE

    will post answer.
    thanks heaps,
    pete
  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425

    new things all the time
    i made this post separate as its specific to folfox,but maybe also applies other chemos!

    sets an interesting precident in my opinion.

    if we all begged and insisted that onc do more to mitagate side effects.

    my diarrhea battle another example.

    its so ironic that you were on samE for it mind benefits not its liver, but it was doing both anyway, so you have tested it already, how are your liver numbers ??

    would love some anecdotal results. lucky this is just a food!!!!hehehehe

    hugs,
    pete


    ps note for advice sandra cabot liver guru
    dear sandra,
    i am winning my battle with bowel cancer based on your liver and bowel book, i have followed your program to the letter. thanks. now i have finished 6 months folfoxchemo.
    i am taking 17mg milk thistle and samE x 4 200mg
    my ast alt ggt are all double and triple upper bounds and my platlettes crashed to 115.
    any conflict milk this and samE

    will post answer.
    thanks heaps,
    pete

    Any thoughts on the use of
    Any thoughts on the use of liquid chlorophyll? Anyone taking this??
  • SisterSledge
    SisterSledge Member Posts: 332
    folfocked
    Can't help it...makes me chuckle every time :)
  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625
    smokeyjoe said:

    Any thoughts on the use of
    Any thoughts on the use of liquid chlorophyll? Anyone taking this??

    liquid chlorophyl
    Yup- have some liquid clorophyl. I do believe it makes a difference for the good in my red blood cell counts. I don't take it all the time because I ingest lots of greens as it is, but I give it a squirt (it comes in a bottle with a dropper) in a beverage a couple of days in a row when I feel the most tired and when my counts usually are the lowest after chemo & I believe it helps. Chlorphyl makes oxygen and that helps make more red blood cells and oxygenating our cells is a good thing too!

    Lisa
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    lisa42 said:

    liquid chlorophyl
    Yup- have some liquid clorophyl. I do believe it makes a difference for the good in my red blood cell counts. I don't take it all the time because I ingest lots of greens as it is, but I give it a squirt (it comes in a bottle with a dropper) in a beverage a couple of days in a row when I feel the most tired and when my counts usually are the lowest after chemo & I believe it helps. Chlorphyl makes oxygen and that helps make more red blood cells and oxygenating our cells is a good thing too!

    Lisa

    not into it, but it cannot hurt
    hi lisa,

    another day, yippee!!!

    I guess I am getting some natural chlorhyl when I juice my broccoli and beans with beets and carrot and celery. etc etc. been adding the spirullina as well, and biopectin into the morning juice, just lazy and throwing it all into together.

    limes are on special now here, been adding a lime in as well, they taste good.

    tastes like crap, so it must be good for me!!!!

    I'll read about it, sounds ineresting and good links ?

    I just hope you feel great everyday with energy and passion.

    hugs,
    pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900

    folfocked
    Can't help it...makes me chuckle every time :)

    i wondered if anyonbe would get it
    thanks janine

    i cannot find my teat list, 1000's unsorted emails, will keep on trying.

    hugs,
    pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900

    folfocked
    Can't help it...makes me chuckle every time :)

    good info about samE
    http://altmedicine.about.com/od/treatmentsfromatod/a/SAMe.htm

    I have found a few sources on the net heaps cheaper than what i just spent.
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900

    folfocked
    Can't help it...makes me chuckle every time :)

    my neuropathy is suddenly much better
    I wonder if SAMe helps,
    is this to co-incidental.
    It could be my recently revamped juicing program.
    it could be neither, I am just so glad my fingers feel normal, well about 98%.

    My feet also feel almost normal, at least some improvments, rather than the nerve damage getting worse.
  • my neuropathy is suddenly much better
    I wonder if SAMe helps,
    is this to co-incidental.
    It could be my recently revamped juicing program.
    it could be neither, I am just so glad my fingers feel normal, well about 98%.

    My feet also feel almost normal, at least some improvments, rather than the nerve damage getting worse.

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    thanks gracie
    hi gracie,

    I am clearly seeing the benefits of our great forum.

    If onc don't tell us, at least we can share.

    We will simply be the most informed colorectal patients on the planet.

    Imagine if the onc start browsing this forum to start learning some tricks.

    Any onc with enough character to admit they read our posts. but stop I am dreaming....

    I hope your having a wonderful day,

    Pete
  • westie66
    westie66 Member Posts: 642

    thanks gracie
    hi gracie,

    I am clearly seeing the benefits of our great forum.

    If onc don't tell us, at least we can share.

    We will simply be the most informed colorectal patients on the planet.

    Imagine if the onc start browsing this forum to start learning some tricks.

    Any onc with enough character to admit they read our posts. but stop I am dreaming....

    I hope your having a wonderful day,

    Pete

    SAM-e
    Hi: I'm from the gallbladder cancer discussion group. Although I had my gallbladder, its tumour, and part of my liver removed last April (2010), and then did a round of chemotherapy using cisplatin and gemiticibine (Gemzar) here in Canada, what needs to go now are 6 peritoneum nodules (cancerous). My oncologist views this kind of like colon cancer. I am not eligible for the peritoneum removal surgery nor for the intraperitoneal chemo (only one place does it in Canada and they haven't had any success with gallbladder cancer patients), but my oncologist is going to try the dreaded oxaliplatin/irenotecan/5FU etc. chemotherapy done both through an IV every 2 weeks and a 46 hr infusion. My question is this: how much SAM-e does one take to help with neuropathy? I purchased a bottle of 100 mg SAM-e today. On the label it says take 3 tablets 3 times a day and that SAM-e was good for fibromyelga (which in many ways is similar to neuropathy in my mind). But someone above mentioned you take 4 tablets a day (but the number of mg was not given). I did not have a problem with neuropathy with the cisplatin/gemitibine mix (none at all actually) but I think oxaliplatin is much more of a 'beast'! I start chemo May 17. Someone on the gallbladder discussion group took L-glutonate to help with the neuropathy. Any ideas on this?
    Thanks!
    Cheryl
  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625
    westie66 said:

    SAM-e
    Hi: I'm from the gallbladder cancer discussion group. Although I had my gallbladder, its tumour, and part of my liver removed last April (2010), and then did a round of chemotherapy using cisplatin and gemiticibine (Gemzar) here in Canada, what needs to go now are 6 peritoneum nodules (cancerous). My oncologist views this kind of like colon cancer. I am not eligible for the peritoneum removal surgery nor for the intraperitoneal chemo (only one place does it in Canada and they haven't had any success with gallbladder cancer patients), but my oncologist is going to try the dreaded oxaliplatin/irenotecan/5FU etc. chemotherapy done both through an IV every 2 weeks and a 46 hr infusion. My question is this: how much SAM-e does one take to help with neuropathy? I purchased a bottle of 100 mg SAM-e today. On the label it says take 3 tablets 3 times a day and that SAM-e was good for fibromyelga (which in many ways is similar to neuropathy in my mind). But someone above mentioned you take 4 tablets a day (but the number of mg was not given). I did not have a problem with neuropathy with the cisplatin/gemitibine mix (none at all actually) but I think oxaliplatin is much more of a 'beast'! I start chemo May 17. Someone on the gallbladder discussion group took L-glutonate to help with the neuropathy. Any ideas on this?
    Thanks!
    Cheryl

    Cheryl- my input
    About purchasing Sam-e, I have found it to be cheapest online through Swanson Vitamins- you might also check amazon.com and see what you can get it for there. It's about 2/3 the price, sometimes even half the price of what you can get it for in the stores.
    I use the 400 mg. pill- goes farther and you don't have to swallow as many pills.
    As I said above, I had been purchasing it for kids with depression & definitely found it to be a mood booster. Never new about the other benefits of it until reading these postings here. I took it for a while for myself, but stopped & I have now just started back up on it after reading all this.

    One note on the Sam-e, I read awhile back that it's best to take in the morning, as it could possibly interfere with sleep if taken in the evening.

    Has anyone out there heard of 5-HTP? It is also a mood enhancer. I take one before bed each night lately. It is best to be taken before bed and not in the morning, as it tends to calm you down and could possibly make you sleepy. I take it because I have discovered from experience it helps with feelings of stress and/or anger better than Sam-e did for me. I wonder if it might also have some added benefits with the cancer, just like the Sam-e apparently does.

    Lisa
  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425
    lisa42 said:

    Cheryl- my input
    About purchasing Sam-e, I have found it to be cheapest online through Swanson Vitamins- you might also check amazon.com and see what you can get it for there. It's about 2/3 the price, sometimes even half the price of what you can get it for in the stores.
    I use the 400 mg. pill- goes farther and you don't have to swallow as many pills.
    As I said above, I had been purchasing it for kids with depression & definitely found it to be a mood booster. Never new about the other benefits of it until reading these postings here. I took it for a while for myself, but stopped & I have now just started back up on it after reading all this.

    One note on the Sam-e, I read awhile back that it's best to take in the morning, as it could possibly interfere with sleep if taken in the evening.

    Has anyone out there heard of 5-HTP? It is also a mood enhancer. I take one before bed each night lately. It is best to be taken before bed and not in the morning, as it tends to calm you down and could possibly make you sleepy. I take it because I have discovered from experience it helps with feelings of stress and/or anger better than Sam-e did for me. I wonder if it might also have some added benefits with the cancer, just like the Sam-e apparently does.

    Lisa

    5-HTP
    I googled 5-HTP and liver toxicity....google it...there are some warnings.
  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625
    smokeyjoe said:

    5-HTP
    I googled 5-HTP and liver toxicity....google it...there are some warnings.

    5-HTP
    Ooh- okay- I better read up on it- thanks for the heads-up!
  • westie66
    westie66 Member Posts: 642
    lisa42 said:

    Cheryl- my input
    About purchasing Sam-e, I have found it to be cheapest online through Swanson Vitamins- you might also check amazon.com and see what you can get it for there. It's about 2/3 the price, sometimes even half the price of what you can get it for in the stores.
    I use the 400 mg. pill- goes farther and you don't have to swallow as many pills.
    As I said above, I had been purchasing it for kids with depression & definitely found it to be a mood booster. Never new about the other benefits of it until reading these postings here. I took it for a while for myself, but stopped & I have now just started back up on it after reading all this.

    One note on the Sam-e, I read awhile back that it's best to take in the morning, as it could possibly interfere with sleep if taken in the evening.

    Has anyone out there heard of 5-HTP? It is also a mood enhancer. I take one before bed each night lately. It is best to be taken before bed and not in the morning, as it tends to calm you down and could possibly make you sleepy. I take it because I have discovered from experience it helps with feelings of stress and/or anger better than Sam-e did for me. I wonder if it might also have some added benefits with the cancer, just like the Sam-e apparently does.

    Lisa

    SAMe
    Hi Lisa: Thanks! my bottle says take on an empty stomach so that would be the morning for me! before breakfast! So, how many of the 400 mg pills do you take per day? One? The bottle I bought cost $36 for 60 pills so I'll surely look for a cheaper source! Thanks for the tips.
    Cheryl