I know can be a hard job but

pepebcn
pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331
edited March 2014 in Colorectal Cancer #1
l would appreciate if one day some of you with time ,can explain me your healthcare system , assurances ,and so.It's difficult to me understand you
by not knowing your public and private system. HEre in Europe everything much easier, you choose your assurance ( if got it) or social security.
Then everything free in both cases no restrictions in SS. some but very little with prived assurances ,just small percentages in some test but very little ones ,and some hospital extras, like upgrading room , daily tv, or certain prothesis.
I chosen SS everything free of course but lately government sends you a kind of pro forma invoice just to let you be aware about your expenses , mine just arrived recently : 850000€ in 17 months, not bad ehh!
Thanks god to have an excellent SS here.
Thank you in advance.
«1

Comments

  • Annabelle41415
    Annabelle41415 Member Posts: 6,715 Member
    Insurance
    We have been scewed. The Obama Administration has taken over GM and last year we didn't pay any deductibles and now because my husband is not a "union" worker he and I pay $7,000 a year plus a $250 montly fee for having health insurance. Obama only wants to secure Union jobs and union sourses. I have to pay for every test I have done. Obama is nothing but a big govenrment biggot that wants to take tax payers money and make commen people pay. He is not for the common pepole but just wants to get the money "RESDISTRIBUTED". I am tired of working so that people that don't work get my money. Sorry so harsh but Obama is a Fraud. Big time.

    Kim
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624

    Insurance
    We have been scewed. The Obama Administration has taken over GM and last year we didn't pay any deductibles and now because my husband is not a "union" worker he and I pay $7,000 a year plus a $250 montly fee for having health insurance. Obama only wants to secure Union jobs and union sourses. I have to pay for every test I have done. Obama is nothing but a big govenrment biggot that wants to take tax payers money and make commen people pay. He is not for the common pepole but just wants to get the money "RESDISTRIBUTED". I am tired of working so that people that don't work get my money. Sorry so harsh but Obama is a Fraud. Big time.

    Kim

    I agree
    I know I'm on Medical, and I've worked all my life, (started at 14 at the Totem Drive In, in Homer, Alaska, and hadn't stopped until this year, but I AGREE with you about Obama.
  • nudgie
    nudgie Member Posts: 1,478
    This is just
    MY opinion, but I would rather have our screwed-up health care system then a "socialize" health care system that determines what services you can or cannot have. Medical treatments seem to be more fluent in the US than the UK.

    I still prefer the "choice" of choosing which health care program(s) I (family) can use.
  • PGLGreg
    PGLGreg Member Posts: 731
    Pepe, for me personally, our
    Pepe, for me personally, our health insurance system works very much as you say yours does. I carry around a little collection of cards identifying myself as being insured, and I present them at a pharmacy, doctor's office, or hospital, and let a skilled secretary figure out what bills for what I need get sent where, and what leftovers to charge me for. Ordinarily, I don't have to pay anything, but when I do, the charges are quite small. I think the rules for how it all works and the associated billing systems are rather intricate, but there is no need for me to cope with the complexity. I let experts sort it out for me. I do get information statements from time to time saying what portions of what bills were paid by what insurer, but I stopped reading them.

    I have an easier time of it than many, since I am a government worker, or I was, until I retired last summer. Now that I'm on a government pension, my retirement system pays all my health insurance premiums.

    --Greg
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624
    Insurance
    Well, Pepe, would LOVE to explain our Insurance here, but CAN'T. It's all different.
  • This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    Kathy it seems Canada is similar to Spain

    I don't know what you understand as alternative treatments can you explain it ?
    In other hand I honestly consider much better Spain system than German one which is considered here quite poor , (not only me but the WHO ,follow the link).We got here lots of Germans and British who come to be operated to avoid certain restrictions and waiting list of their countries,( as EU citizens they got the right to be treated in any EU country ).The bad thing is that you are paying the 20% of your incomes to social security With a maximum of 1800€ month, this is not considered as a tax but a direct payment to SS.Beside that you got normal tax which can go from 0 to the 48%.
    The good thing is that once you are born you got SS for ever.
    Cheers.





    The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

    www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122
    Well Pepe'


    Would you like a free thinker's opinion?

    Here in the USA, we have become the land of the "Have's and the Have not's".

    It's sad, Pepe', but over here, "pooling money" to provide things that can
    benefit the majority is frowned upon, and deemed "socialistic".

    "Socialism" here, is a "dirty word", and it's labeled to anything that
    can provide equal services to all citizens, regardless of their social
    standing, economic resources, or abilities.

    Things like "Public Education", "Social Security Retirement Benefits",
    "Unemployment Insurance", and even Government Provided Health Care
    (our Medicare and Medicaid services), are denounced as "Socialistic
    practices" capable of undermining our Capitalistic system.

    People here Pepe', have what we call "TV Memory"; it's an attention
    span lasting about 30 minutes, or as long as the average Television show.
    History continually repeats itself, due to this short memory/attention span.

    Our healthcare services were attempted to be revamped as far back
    as I can remember! But the same old arguments against public healthcare
    are repeated now as if they are new, valid arguments.
    (Re: ‘Socialized Medicine’ )

    So here, Pepe', partisan politics and greed are what control our
    destiny. We try to have what other nations provide their citizens,
    but are held back by ideology based on heretic and propaganda,
    and far from reality and serious concern.

    Our present President inherited a mess, and is denounced for what
    he can't fix within that 30 minute time-span. It's been forgotten that
    damage of 16 years of one party control had been reversed for 8 short
    years, and then reversed again, to dig another 8 year hole from the same
    16 year ideology.

    And now? We can only fix just "so much" in less than two years,
    but the critics prevail!

    Someday Pepe', we'll see free universal healthcare for all our citizens,
    just as public schooling, and a comprehensive retirement benefits program
    manages to provide for all.

    Someday, Pepe'...... someday.

    Stay well.

    John
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331
    John23 said:

    Well Pepe'


    Would you like a free thinker's opinion?

    Here in the USA, we have become the land of the "Have's and the Have not's".

    It's sad, Pepe', but over here, "pooling money" to provide things that can
    benefit the majority is frowned upon, and deemed "socialistic".

    "Socialism" here, is a "dirty word", and it's labeled to anything that
    can provide equal services to all citizens, regardless of their social
    standing, economic resources, or abilities.

    Things like "Public Education", "Social Security Retirement Benefits",
    "Unemployment Insurance", and even Government Provided Health Care
    (our Medicare and Medicaid services), are denounced as "Socialistic
    practices" capable of undermining our Capitalistic system.

    People here Pepe', have what we call "TV Memory"; it's an attention
    span lasting about 30 minutes, or as long as the average Television show.
    History continually repeats itself, due to this short memory/attention span.

    Our healthcare services were attempted to be revamped as far back
    as I can remember! But the same old arguments against public healthcare
    are repeated now as if they are new, valid arguments.
    (Re: ‘Socialized Medicine’ )

    So here, Pepe', partisan politics and greed are what control our
    destiny. We try to have what other nations provide their citizens,
    but are held back by ideology based on heretic and propaganda,
    and far from reality and serious concern.

    Our present President inherited a mess, and is denounced for what
    he can't fix within that 30 minute time-span. It's been forgotten that
    damage of 16 years of one party control had been reversed for 8 short
    years, and then reversed again, to dig another 8 year hole from the same
    16 year ideology.

    And now? We can only fix just "so much" in less than two years,
    but the critics prevail!

    Someday Pepe', we'll see free universal healthcare for all our citizens,
    just as public schooling, and a comprehensive retirement benefits program
    manages to provide for all.

    Someday, Pepe'...... someday.

    Stay well.

    John

    Well john ,thanks for your coments it's quite clarifying
    I'm not American and I don't consider my self any body to criticize your health care system or talk about, l just try to understand how does it work as part of this board, some times is difficult to me to understand how some body is in stress because it's enssurance issues,that honestly don't understand .Any way just a suggestion to those who consider free universal healthcare as an "anathema ": Dont be afraid about, it works, and just notice that l never voted socialist in my life,LOL.
    Big hug.
  • snommintj
    snommintj Member Posts: 601
    John23 said:

    Well Pepe'


    Would you like a free thinker's opinion?

    Here in the USA, we have become the land of the "Have's and the Have not's".

    It's sad, Pepe', but over here, "pooling money" to provide things that can
    benefit the majority is frowned upon, and deemed "socialistic".

    "Socialism" here, is a "dirty word", and it's labeled to anything that
    can provide equal services to all citizens, regardless of their social
    standing, economic resources, or abilities.

    Things like "Public Education", "Social Security Retirement Benefits",
    "Unemployment Insurance", and even Government Provided Health Care
    (our Medicare and Medicaid services), are denounced as "Socialistic
    practices" capable of undermining our Capitalistic system.

    People here Pepe', have what we call "TV Memory"; it's an attention
    span lasting about 30 minutes, or as long as the average Television show.
    History continually repeats itself, due to this short memory/attention span.

    Our healthcare services were attempted to be revamped as far back
    as I can remember! But the same old arguments against public healthcare
    are repeated now as if they are new, valid arguments.
    (Re: ‘Socialized Medicine’ )

    So here, Pepe', partisan politics and greed are what control our
    destiny. We try to have what other nations provide their citizens,
    but are held back by ideology based on heretic and propaganda,
    and far from reality and serious concern.

    Our present President inherited a mess, and is denounced for what
    he can't fix within that 30 minute time-span. It's been forgotten that
    damage of 16 years of one party control had been reversed for 8 short
    years, and then reversed again, to dig another 8 year hole from the same
    16 year ideology.

    And now? We can only fix just "so much" in less than two years,
    but the critics prevail!

    Someday Pepe', we'll see free universal healthcare for all our citizens,
    just as public schooling, and a comprehensive retirement benefits program
    manages to provide for all.

    Someday, Pepe'...... someday.

    Stay well.

    John

    Ridiculous healthcare system
    Before being diagnosed with cancer I had what is now referred to as a "cadillac policy", meaning I had maximum coverage. It wasn't cheap but I was self employed and I just figured it would be better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. I have never had any health issues, I was a non-smoker and a very light drinker. Quite simply, I was the ideal candidate for health insurance. I gave them roughly $7000/yr and they covered everything after I met a deductible of $5000. So I paid $12000/yr before they spent a penny. This went on for some time until I got diagnosed. I had a $1 million lifetime maximum policy. When I was diagnosed, the insurance company did everything they could to avoid paying. They spent thousands of dollars investigating my past hoping to catch me with a preexisting condition. Luckily for me, a woman had just recently received a very large settlement from my insurance company after they had denied her based on a preexisting condition where there had not been one. Once they agreed to pay they were awesome. They paid everything without question and I was happy. Unfortunately for me, they were too good. The hospital saw a nice juicy fruit on the vein and they sucked it dry very quickly. I reached my lifetime maximum pay out in less than 5 months. Now comes the tricky part. My wife had insurance through her work and it covered me but the lifetime maximum payout was only $25,000. Basically one round of chemo. After that, I qualified for social security which then qualified me for medicaid. I have compared the medicaid prices for treatment vs the "cadillac policy"
    prices and noticed a huge difference. I have been on medicaid now for a little over a year. Medicaid has only paid out $200,000. I've received the exact same treatments and have had more surgeries on medicaid. Either there are two different prices for the same treatment or somebody was lying to me. I'm convinced my heath insurance paid the discounted rate while reporting to me that they paid full price.
    I've discussed this with the hospital bill collector and they said they weren't allowed to discuss negotiated rates with me. Anyway, the poorest of the poor(if they qualify) receive excellent health benefits through medicaid or medicare. The process is difficult to complete but if there is no other option you do what they tell you to.
    I would love to have my old insurance back. I should still have it had they calculated their payouts properly. If I live to 2014, big "if", you can bet I'm gonna hit them up again.
  • pepebcn said:

    Kathy it seems Canada is similar to Spain

    I don't know what you understand as alternative treatments can you explain it ?
    In other hand I honestly consider much better Spain system than German one which is considered here quite poor , (not only me but the WHO ,follow the link).We got here lots of Germans and British who come to be operated to avoid certain restrictions and waiting list of their countries,( as EU citizens they got the right to be treated in any EU country ).The bad thing is that you are paying the 20% of your incomes to social security With a maximum of 1800€ month, this is not considered as a tax but a direct payment to SS.Beside that you got normal tax which can go from 0 to the 48%.
    The good thing is that once you are born you got SS for ever.
    Cheers.





    The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

    www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • PGLGreg
    PGLGreg Member Posts: 731
    John23 said:

    Well Pepe'


    Would you like a free thinker's opinion?

    Here in the USA, we have become the land of the "Have's and the Have not's".

    It's sad, Pepe', but over here, "pooling money" to provide things that can
    benefit the majority is frowned upon, and deemed "socialistic".

    "Socialism" here, is a "dirty word", and it's labeled to anything that
    can provide equal services to all citizens, regardless of their social
    standing, economic resources, or abilities.

    Things like "Public Education", "Social Security Retirement Benefits",
    "Unemployment Insurance", and even Government Provided Health Care
    (our Medicare and Medicaid services), are denounced as "Socialistic
    practices" capable of undermining our Capitalistic system.

    People here Pepe', have what we call "TV Memory"; it's an attention
    span lasting about 30 minutes, or as long as the average Television show.
    History continually repeats itself, due to this short memory/attention span.

    Our healthcare services were attempted to be revamped as far back
    as I can remember! But the same old arguments against public healthcare
    are repeated now as if they are new, valid arguments.
    (Re: ‘Socialized Medicine’ )

    So here, Pepe', partisan politics and greed are what control our
    destiny. We try to have what other nations provide their citizens,
    but are held back by ideology based on heretic and propaganda,
    and far from reality and serious concern.

    Our present President inherited a mess, and is denounced for what
    he can't fix within that 30 minute time-span. It's been forgotten that
    damage of 16 years of one party control had been reversed for 8 short
    years, and then reversed again, to dig another 8 year hole from the same
    16 year ideology.

    And now? We can only fix just "so much" in less than two years,
    but the critics prevail!

    Someday Pepe', we'll see free universal healthcare for all our citizens,
    just as public schooling, and a comprehensive retirement benefits program
    manages to provide for all.

    Someday, Pepe'...... someday.

    Stay well.

    John

    Capitalist democracy.
    John writes: "So here, Pepe', partisan politics and greed are what control our
    destiny."

    True, but that's a rather negative way to put it. Say instead: "We have a democracy based on the party system, and our economic system is basically capitalist."

    Think positive.

    --Greg
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624
    pepebcn said:

    Well john ,thanks for your coments it's quite clarifying
    I'm not American and I don't consider my self any body to criticize your health care system or talk about, l just try to understand how does it work as part of this board, some times is difficult to me to understand how some body is in stress because it's enssurance issues,that honestly don't understand .Any way just a suggestion to those who consider free universal healthcare as an "anathema ": Dont be afraid about, it works, and just notice that l never voted socialist in my life,LOL.
    Big hug.

    Actually
    What John said is simply his opinion. Our public school system sucks, if you live in a rich area, you have the best, if you live in low income area, you usually have the worst.
    Here in California, the system is being sued, as they let "teachers" that weren't qualified to be teachers, teach in the low income areas. The exception to the rule, if you are poor enough, (dirt poor), they will pay for your medical bills, but you can't be poor and still own a home, or a car over a certain value, you must be very poor and own NOTHING in order to get this insurance.
    As for a wonderful retirement??? My husband is okay, he put as much as he could away, but a lot of seniors live in poverty here, relying on a democratic system that keeps taking away from Social Security for other needs, we all pay into the Social Security system for some type of retirement benefit.
    Our NEWEST health care system would require that most people living on social security disability, low paying jobs etc., pay over half of their monthly income to pay for a universal insurance, then on top of that, have a few thousand dollars they must pay out first, and then co-pays for insurance and prescriptions. That means they go without food, sometimes housing, etc., in order to pay for insurance, so many die from cancer, etc., because they cannot afford our medical costs, this is including the "NEW and IMPROVED" system, which remains a joke. The democratic system here, is as close as you can get to socialism, which using Cuba as an example, doesn't and won't ever work.
    The new insurance plan by Obama, is by no means FREE, very costly to the poor.
  • PGLGreg said:

    Capitalist democracy.
    John writes: "So here, Pepe', partisan politics and greed are what control our
    destiny."

    True, but that's a rather negative way to put it. Say instead: "We have a democracy based on the party system, and our economic system is basically capitalist."

    Think positive.

    --Greg

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    I don't know exactly what's the Obama project but even that,
    sounds complicated to me! here is as easy as Free health care for every body from the moment you born, despite that many of us use to have a private enssurace.Those inssurances use to be quite affordable ( mine1200$ a year) which covers 100% expenses with a big choice of doctors and most of the best prived hospitals in Spain and no limits of money or time, as an example mine covers any expense at MD Andersons in Madrid. Despite that when something very grave happens most of us, prefer Public hospitals because their experience , ( my hospital has an average of 1 liver resection a day and 1 liver transplant a week), main problem: double bedded room,LOL. So hope it will help to make you understand how works free universal healthcare in Europe.
    Hugs.
  • Kathryn_in_MN
    Kathryn_in_MN Member Posts: 1,252
    pepebcn said:

    I don't know exactly what's the Obama project but even that,
    sounds complicated to me! here is as easy as Free health care for every body from the moment you born, despite that many of us use to have a private enssurace.Those inssurances use to be quite affordable ( mine1200$ a year) which covers 100% expenses with a big choice of doctors and most of the best prived hospitals in Spain and no limits of money or time, as an example mine covers any expense at MD Andersons in Madrid. Despite that when something very grave happens most of us, prefer Public hospitals because their experience , ( my hospital has an average of 1 liver resection a day and 1 liver transplant a week), main problem: double bedded room,LOL. So hope it will help to make you understand how works free universal healthcare in Europe.
    Hugs.

    Nothing is free
    The thing is, nothing is free. You and everyone who works in your country pays taxes which cover your medical. I don't know your income tax rate in Spain, but in most European countries it is much higher than we pay here. And everyone here already complains about what they pay (myself included).

    We pay taxes that cover medical for the poor - but not for middle income or rich. That is one of the big differences in our systems.

    Another is that we allow crazy malpractice lawsuits which have driven up the cost of insurance for doctors - which drives up our cost of service.

    Another is that medical is a capitalist system here, not regulated by the government. In most European countries that is not the case.

    We live in a country where the majority want everything to be a free economic system where you get for yourself what you work for, and keep it. People do not want to "share the wealth." They feel if they worked hard for something it should be all theirs. Most do not want any sort of socialist system. But as soon as they are hit with unemployment, major health problems and costs, etc., many of those that screamed the loudest with complaints about any government programs all their lives, suddenly want to have a better system for themselves.

    Greed. Our country is based on greed. It is not based on humanitarianism. We most often do NOT look for the common good, but "What's in it for me?" is our national motto.

    Very, very sad.
  • PGLGreg
    PGLGreg Member Posts: 731

    Nothing is free
    The thing is, nothing is free. You and everyone who works in your country pays taxes which cover your medical. I don't know your income tax rate in Spain, but in most European countries it is much higher than we pay here. And everyone here already complains about what they pay (myself included).

    We pay taxes that cover medical for the poor - but not for middle income or rich. That is one of the big differences in our systems.

    Another is that we allow crazy malpractice lawsuits which have driven up the cost of insurance for doctors - which drives up our cost of service.

    Another is that medical is a capitalist system here, not regulated by the government. In most European countries that is not the case.

    We live in a country where the majority want everything to be a free economic system where you get for yourself what you work for, and keep it. People do not want to "share the wealth." They feel if they worked hard for something it should be all theirs. Most do not want any sort of socialist system. But as soon as they are hit with unemployment, major health problems and costs, etc., many of those that screamed the loudest with complaints about any government programs all their lives, suddenly want to have a better system for themselves.

    Greed. Our country is based on greed. It is not based on humanitarianism. We most often do NOT look for the common good, but "What's in it for me?" is our national motto.

    Very, very sad.

    Tort reform ho-hum.
    There is some question whether it is actually true that those "crazy malpractice lawsuits" drive up our cost of service. Here is a study
    http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/9/1569
    which concludes: "Overall annual medical liability system costs, including defensive medicine, are estimated to be $55.6 billion in 2008 dollars, or 2.4 percent of total health care spending."

    A measly 2.4 percent. Even if we could devise some perfect remedy to what you (not I) see as the terrible problem caused by compensation to people injured through medical error, the impact on our overall healthcare system would hardly be noticeable.

    --Greg
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122
    pepebcn said:

    I don't know exactly what's the Obama project but even that,
    sounds complicated to me! here is as easy as Free health care for every body from the moment you born, despite that many of us use to have a private enssurace.Those inssurances use to be quite affordable ( mine1200$ a year) which covers 100% expenses with a big choice of doctors and most of the best prived hospitals in Spain and no limits of money or time, as an example mine covers any expense at MD Andersons in Madrid. Despite that when something very grave happens most of us, prefer Public hospitals because their experience , ( my hospital has an average of 1 liver resection a day and 1 liver transplant a week), main problem: double bedded room,LOL. So hope it will help to make you understand how works free universal healthcare in Europe.
    Hugs.

    Well Pepe'....


    It seems your innocent question about our health care has managed
    to start a political debate! That's a good thing, since it's the way
    some of us learn new things.

    By the way, the United States isn't a "Democracy", it is a "Constitutional Republic".

    In a Democracy, the majority rules; in a Constitutional Republic, the Constitution rules.

    What that means very simply, is that in a "Democracy", the majority
    can tell you that you have to sit in the back of a bus.

    In a Constitutional Republic, the Constitution guarantees you the
    right to sit wherever anyone else can sit, regardless of any
    "Majority's preference".

    Re:
    "We pay taxes that cover medical for the poor - but not for middle income or rich. "

    Actually, (some of) our taxes go to paying for "Medicare", and that is for everyone,
    that reaches the age of retirement, or is unemployable for reason of health, regardless
    of economic abilities.

    Our taxes also supports "Medicaid", a health care subsidy for the very poor,
    and for those unable to get any other type of commercial health insurance.

    And...... Our taxes go to providing health care for -any and all- government
    employees, regardless of their economic abilities.

    As a Nation, we are divided by political ideology, although the ideologies
    have become quite muddled and confused........

    The "Conservative" approach is to let free enterprise set it's own standards,
    and to prevent the government for regulating free enterprise.

    The "other" approach is to allow the government to regulate free enterprise,
    keeping corporate empires from monopolizing the marketplace, and setting
    unreasonable standards.

    It would be great to settle on something between the two, but it's a
    difficult task made more difficult by those wishing to remain stubborn with
    their perceived ideology.

    Health care costs have become exorbitant due to a lack of regulation.
    There is absolutely no reason for the ridiculously high cost of one dose
    of a chemical that can save a life. But if the political ideology of a party
    in power refuses to allow any regulation, that corporate empire can
    and will charge whatever it deems "fair".

    In many other nations.. well, Norway for instance, the government owns
    and sells oil products, and that revenue pays for their government supplied
    health care. It sounds great! But here in USA, the government was never
    designed to own and operate businesses. (It does, but it was not a
    constitutionally designed thing....) So our costs for "free services" are paid
    by our taxation. It was originally designed to be from Import fees (tariff),
    but somewhere along the line, some political party felt that tariffs hurt
    our corporate empires..... and tariffs were set aside.

    So Pepe', the USA has in many ways "morphed" into a country of
    many ill-designed paths to governmental management. If our two major
    political parties ever managed to decide to do things based on Constitutional
    requirements, and work together rather than fight every decision, perhaps
    we can "morph" into something very viable for all our citizens.

    We deserve universal health care, good public schools, and a
    financially guaranteed retirement for all.

    We could have all that.... if only we could get enough people to agree
    to the same goals.

    But alas..... if we can't manage to do that here on this forum.....
    How could we possibly do that in the real world?

    (all my opinion, of cuz)


    Stay well Pepe'!


    John
  • Nana b
    Nana b Member Posts: 3,030
    John23 said:

    Well Pepe'....


    It seems your innocent question about our health care has managed
    to start a political debate! That's a good thing, since it's the way
    some of us learn new things.

    By the way, the United States isn't a "Democracy", it is a "Constitutional Republic".

    In a Democracy, the majority rules; in a Constitutional Republic, the Constitution rules.

    What that means very simply, is that in a "Democracy", the majority
    can tell you that you have to sit in the back of a bus.

    In a Constitutional Republic, the Constitution guarantees you the
    right to sit wherever anyone else can sit, regardless of any
    "Majority's preference".

    Re:
    "We pay taxes that cover medical for the poor - but not for middle income or rich. "

    Actually, (some of) our taxes go to paying for "Medicare", and that is for everyone,
    that reaches the age of retirement, or is unemployable for reason of health, regardless
    of economic abilities.

    Our taxes also supports "Medicaid", a health care subsidy for the very poor,
    and for those unable to get any other type of commercial health insurance.

    And...... Our taxes go to providing health care for -any and all- government
    employees, regardless of their economic abilities.

    As a Nation, we are divided by political ideology, although the ideologies
    have become quite muddled and confused........

    The "Conservative" approach is to let free enterprise set it's own standards,
    and to prevent the government for regulating free enterprise.

    The "other" approach is to allow the government to regulate free enterprise,
    keeping corporate empires from monopolizing the marketplace, and setting
    unreasonable standards.

    It would be great to settle on something between the two, but it's a
    difficult task made more difficult by those wishing to remain stubborn with
    their perceived ideology.

    Health care costs have become exorbitant due to a lack of regulation.
    There is absolutely no reason for the ridiculously high cost of one dose
    of a chemical that can save a life. But if the political ideology of a party
    in power refuses to allow any regulation, that corporate empire can
    and will charge whatever it deems "fair".

    In many other nations.. well, Norway for instance, the government owns
    and sells oil products, and that revenue pays for their government supplied
    health care. It sounds great! But here in USA, the government was never
    designed to own and operate businesses. (It does, but it was not a
    constitutionally designed thing....) So our costs for "free services" are paid
    by our taxation. It was originally designed to be from Import fees (tariff),
    but somewhere along the line, some political party felt that tariffs hurt
    our corporate empires..... and tariffs were set aside.

    So Pepe', the USA has in many ways "morphed" into a country of
    many ill-designed paths to governmental management. If our two major
    political parties ever managed to decide to do things based on Constitutional
    requirements, and work together rather than fight every decision, perhaps
    we can "morph" into something very viable for all our citizens.

    We deserve universal health care, good public schools, and a
    financially guaranteed retirement for all.

    We could have all that.... if only we could get enough people to agree
    to the same goals.

    But alas..... if we can't manage to do that here on this forum.....
    How could we possibly do that in the real world?

    (all my opinion, of cuz)


    Stay well Pepe'!


    John

    By the time employees paying
    By the time employees paying minimum wage pay for daycare and medical they are broke, they instead stay home and collect welfare, in wick, food stamps, cash, and medical insurance. Heck, I could live off that! :-)
  • Kathryn_in_MN
    Kathryn_in_MN Member Posts: 1,252
    John23 said:

    Well Pepe'....


    It seems your innocent question about our health care has managed
    to start a political debate! That's a good thing, since it's the way
    some of us learn new things.

    By the way, the United States isn't a "Democracy", it is a "Constitutional Republic".

    In a Democracy, the majority rules; in a Constitutional Republic, the Constitution rules.

    What that means very simply, is that in a "Democracy", the majority
    can tell you that you have to sit in the back of a bus.

    In a Constitutional Republic, the Constitution guarantees you the
    right to sit wherever anyone else can sit, regardless of any
    "Majority's preference".

    Re:
    "We pay taxes that cover medical for the poor - but not for middle income or rich. "

    Actually, (some of) our taxes go to paying for "Medicare", and that is for everyone,
    that reaches the age of retirement, or is unemployable for reason of health, regardless
    of economic abilities.

    Our taxes also supports "Medicaid", a health care subsidy for the very poor,
    and for those unable to get any other type of commercial health insurance.

    And...... Our taxes go to providing health care for -any and all- government
    employees, regardless of their economic abilities.

    As a Nation, we are divided by political ideology, although the ideologies
    have become quite muddled and confused........

    The "Conservative" approach is to let free enterprise set it's own standards,
    and to prevent the government for regulating free enterprise.

    The "other" approach is to allow the government to regulate free enterprise,
    keeping corporate empires from monopolizing the marketplace, and setting
    unreasonable standards.

    It would be great to settle on something between the two, but it's a
    difficult task made more difficult by those wishing to remain stubborn with
    their perceived ideology.

    Health care costs have become exorbitant due to a lack of regulation.
    There is absolutely no reason for the ridiculously high cost of one dose
    of a chemical that can save a life. But if the political ideology of a party
    in power refuses to allow any regulation, that corporate empire can
    and will charge whatever it deems "fair".

    In many other nations.. well, Norway for instance, the government owns
    and sells oil products, and that revenue pays for their government supplied
    health care. It sounds great! But here in USA, the government was never
    designed to own and operate businesses. (It does, but it was not a
    constitutionally designed thing....) So our costs for "free services" are paid
    by our taxation. It was originally designed to be from Import fees (tariff),
    but somewhere along the line, some political party felt that tariffs hurt
    our corporate empires..... and tariffs were set aside.

    So Pepe', the USA has in many ways "morphed" into a country of
    many ill-designed paths to governmental management. If our two major
    political parties ever managed to decide to do things based on Constitutional
    requirements, and work together rather than fight every decision, perhaps
    we can "morph" into something very viable for all our citizens.

    We deserve universal health care, good public schools, and a
    financially guaranteed retirement for all.

    We could have all that.... if only we could get enough people to agree
    to the same goals.

    But alas..... if we can't manage to do that here on this forum.....
    How could we possibly do that in the real world?

    (all my opinion, of cuz)


    Stay well Pepe'!


    John

    Amen
    Thank you John. You've stated it all very well (including correcting me about some of our taxes covering health care for those that are not poor).