Provenge? Anyone scheduled for this treatment?

trainstop
trainstop Member Posts: 2
edited March 2014 in Prostate Cancer #1
Hope all is well to all. I am scheduled for first Provenge treatment on October 22, 2010, one of three, and am wondering if anyone has experienced or has an appointment for such? My last PSA was 1.58 with Casodex failure, lasted about 5 months, stage IV, with some micrometastatic lesions to upper spine. Not too bad at his point. Have been on Lupron since November, 2008 and surgery in 2002 with a PSA of 2.4. Gleason at biopsy was 3+3, with final 3+4 after surgery. Some discrepancy with Gleason score, as biopsy score was later read by another facility as 4+4. I guess different people interpret the slides with some degree of question. At this point I am counting the days, 31 to go. Will report how this Provenge works out for those of you who may need this later. The Aberaterone trials can't end soon enough for me, and that would be my next choice. We all have to keep the faith that new treatments will be approved at a faster pace since it is a race against time for most of us. Good luck to all, nothing but the best!!!!
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Comments

  • mrspjd
    mrspjd Member Posts: 694 Member
    T4 PCa
    trainstop,
    Welcome to the PCa forum. Although, we do not have any personal experience with Provenge, we have met one older gentleman in our face to face PCa group who is on Provenge. He appears extremely pleased with the treatment & infusions and touts that he is feeling healthy and doing well--he also looks good! (Hope that helps.) As your post indicated, your PCa is at the T4 stage with some micrometastatic lessions. Wondering what tests were used to locate the lessions (bone scan, mri, etc?), & if you are receiving any type of RT-radiation treatments-such as IMRT or Stereotactic RT, for the lessions. If so, how has it worked out? As you, we've heard that Abiraterone is showing promise in clincial trials. Let's all hope that it will be fast-tracked through the FDA when clinical trials are completed or perhaps sooner, since the current data is so positive. Was it ever an option for you to be in an Abiraterone trial? My husband has T3 locally advanced non-metastasized PCa and is currently in treatment with ADT, HDR-B (completed), and IMRT. If possible, I would encourage you to continue to post your experience here, especially with regard to Provenge.

    Wishing you all the best,
    mrs pjd
  • trainstop
    trainstop Member Posts: 2
    mrspjd said:

    T4 PCa
    trainstop,
    Welcome to the PCa forum. Although, we do not have any personal experience with Provenge, we have met one older gentleman in our face to face PCa group who is on Provenge. He appears extremely pleased with the treatment & infusions and touts that he is feeling healthy and doing well--he also looks good! (Hope that helps.) As your post indicated, your PCa is at the T4 stage with some micrometastatic lessions. Wondering what tests were used to locate the lessions (bone scan, mri, etc?), & if you are receiving any type of RT-radiation treatments-such as IMRT or Stereotactic RT, for the lessions. If so, how has it worked out? As you, we've heard that Abiraterone is showing promise in clincial trials. Let's all hope that it will be fast-tracked through the FDA when clinical trials are completed or perhaps sooner, since the current data is so positive. Was it ever an option for you to be in an Abiraterone trial? My husband has T3 locally advanced non-metastasized PCa and is currently in treatment with ADT, HDR-B (completed), and IMRT. If possible, I would encourage you to continue to post your experience here, especially with regard to Provenge.

    Wishing you all the best,
    mrs pjd

    September 20, 2010 -
    September 20, 2010 - 6:53pm
    T4 PCa
    new
    trainstop,
    Welcome to the PCa forum. Although, we do not have any personal experience with Provenge, we have met one older gentleman in our face to face PCa group who is on Provenge. He appears extremely pleased with the treatment & infusions and touts that he is feeling healthy and doing well--he also looks good! (Hope that helps.) As your post indicated, your PCa is at the T4 stage with some micrometastatic lessions. Wondering what tests were used to locate the lessions (bone scan, mri, etc?), & if you are receiving any type of RT-radiation treatments-such as IMRT or Stereotactic RT, for the lessions. If so, how has it worked out? As you, we've heard that Abiraterone is showing promise in clincial trials. Let's all hope that it will be fast-tracked through the FDA when clinical trials are completed or perhaps sooner, since the current data is so positive. Was it ever an option for you to be in an Abiraterone trial? My husband has T3 locally advanced non-metastasized PCa and is currently in treatment with ADT, HDR-B (completed), and IMRT. If possible, I would encourage you to continue to post your experience here, especially with regard to Provenge.

    Wishing you all the best,
    mrs pjd Thanks for the reply and, of course, wishing nothing but the best to you and your husband. My last PSA was in July, this year, and to qualify for Provenge, you must have had hormone failure with a rising PSA. I have both! No steroids, Casodex or other treatment to be administered before the Provenge, as discussed and told to me by my oncologist at DF in Boston. They are treating me systematically rather than isolated therapy such as radiation, which I believe is correct. Recent bone and CT scan showed two small lesions on upper spine about 6-8 inches below the back of one's neck, thoracic region. The problem is these cancers have a mindset of their own and until something shows up, simply one is presumably OK. I had the opportunity to be on the Aberaterone trial, but refused since it was a blind study. To some degree it may have been a better choice than the Casodex, but with Provenge then Aberaterone, hope it is approved soon, which DF seems to be confident it will, I'm beginning to like my chances to prolong a reasonable quality of life somewhat better. In any event, I will post my progression with Provenge as it occurs. 28 days and counting.
  • bubos
    bubos Member Posts: 2
    trainstop said:

    September 20, 2010 -
    September 20, 2010 - 6:53pm
    T4 PCa
    new
    trainstop,
    Welcome to the PCa forum. Although, we do not have any personal experience with Provenge, we have met one older gentleman in our face to face PCa group who is on Provenge. He appears extremely pleased with the treatment & infusions and touts that he is feeling healthy and doing well--he also looks good! (Hope that helps.) As your post indicated, your PCa is at the T4 stage with some micrometastatic lessions. Wondering what tests were used to locate the lessions (bone scan, mri, etc?), & if you are receiving any type of RT-radiation treatments-such as IMRT or Stereotactic RT, for the lessions. If so, how has it worked out? As you, we've heard that Abiraterone is showing promise in clincial trials. Let's all hope that it will be fast-tracked through the FDA when clinical trials are completed or perhaps sooner, since the current data is so positive. Was it ever an option for you to be in an Abiraterone trial? My husband has T3 locally advanced non-metastasized PCa and is currently in treatment with ADT, HDR-B (completed), and IMRT. If possible, I would encourage you to continue to post your experience here, especially with regard to Provenge.

    Wishing you all the best,
    mrs pjd Thanks for the reply and, of course, wishing nothing but the best to you and your husband. My last PSA was in July, this year, and to qualify for Provenge, you must have had hormone failure with a rising PSA. I have both! No steroids, Casodex or other treatment to be administered before the Provenge, as discussed and told to me by my oncologist at DF in Boston. They are treating me systematically rather than isolated therapy such as radiation, which I believe is correct. Recent bone and CT scan showed two small lesions on upper spine about 6-8 inches below the back of one's neck, thoracic region. The problem is these cancers have a mindset of their own and until something shows up, simply one is presumably OK. I had the opportunity to be on the Aberaterone trial, but refused since it was a blind study. To some degree it may have been a better choice than the Casodex, but with Provenge then Aberaterone, hope it is approved soon, which DF seems to be confident it will, I'm beginning to like my chances to prolong a reasonable quality of life somewhat better. In any event, I will post my progression with Provenge as it occurs. 28 days and counting.

    Similar story
    Dear trainstop,
    we have remarkably similar stories- I too am a patient at DF and just last week was approved for Provenge. I will be starting either the last week of this month or first in November. I would love to compare notes as we share this timeline. Let's converse through email to start and my guess is we will cross paths over the coming weeks.
    bubos
  • snowmo
    snowmo Member Posts: 2
    provenge
    Started Provenge 2 weeks ago, getting second time next week. No real problems other than fatique. Definetly feel better. I am current stage 4 and running out of options. Bone pain has subsided
  • bryant1212
    bryant1212 Member Posts: 3
    provenge
    Trainstop: I am scheduled for the triple provenge application next month. I would find it helpful to talk to you. I'd appreciate a contact at my email: [email protected]
    Good luck with yours. Joe F.
  • bryant1212
    bryant1212 Member Posts: 3
    bubos said:

    Similar story
    Dear trainstop,
    we have remarkably similar stories- I too am a patient at DF and just last week was approved for Provenge. I will be starting either the last week of this month or first in November. I would love to compare notes as we share this timeline. Let's converse through email to start and my guess is we will cross paths over the coming weeks.
    bubos

    provenge
    bubos: I am scheduled for the triple provenge application next month. I would find it helpful to talk to you. I'd appreciate a contact at my email: [email protected]
    Good luck with yours. Joe F.
  • BEVERLYANN
    BEVERLYANN Member Posts: 2
    PROVENGE
    SERIOUSLY DECIDING WHETHER TO GO WITH PROVENGE VERY SOON. ANYONE KNOW WHAT FOLLOWS PROVENGE. FOR EXAMPLE, IS THAT THE LAST TREATMENT OR DO THEY STILL USE HORMONE TREATMENTS ETC. AFTER WARD?
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,491 Member

    PROVENGE
    SERIOUSLY DECIDING WHETHER TO GO WITH PROVENGE VERY SOON. ANYONE KNOW WHAT FOLLOWS PROVENGE. FOR EXAMPLE, IS THAT THE LAST TREATMENT OR DO THEY STILL USE HORMONE TREATMENTS ETC. AFTER WARD?

    Beverlyann; Trainstop does not “stop” here anymore
    Hi Beverlyann

    It seems that Trainstop does not “stop” here anymore. Many survivors would like to know about experiences on provenge.
    I am not taking the drug but I read that you can “move” from immunological therapy (provenge) to hormone or to chemo therapy if the former fails. Dr. Leibowitz is an experienced oncologist for advanced cases and a researcher in HEMATOLOGY. He follows his own protocols that you can read at his team site (http://compassionateoncology.org/).
    One of his partners at Compassionate, Dr. Bob has been treating advanced risk patients with a “cocktail” of drugs that include immunologic drugs too. He has published a paper on treatments titled “DR. BOB’S (NOT SO) SECRET RECIPE FOR TREATING
    METASTATIC, ADVANCED OR RECURRENT PROSTATE CANCER” which you can read in this site;
    http://compassionateoncology.org/pdfs/3-pronged-111908.pdf

    I hope you share your experiences with us.

    Wishing the above info is of help.
    Welcome to the board.
    VGama
  • BEVERLYANN
    BEVERLYANN Member Posts: 2

    Beverlyann; Trainstop does not “stop” here anymore
    Hi Beverlyann

    It seems that Trainstop does not “stop” here anymore. Many survivors would like to know about experiences on provenge.
    I am not taking the drug but I read that you can “move” from immunological therapy (provenge) to hormone or to chemo therapy if the former fails. Dr. Leibowitz is an experienced oncologist for advanced cases and a researcher in HEMATOLOGY. He follows his own protocols that you can read at his team site (http://compassionateoncology.org/).
    One of his partners at Compassionate, Dr. Bob has been treating advanced risk patients with a “cocktail” of drugs that include immunologic drugs too. He has published a paper on treatments titled “DR. BOB’S (NOT SO) SECRET RECIPE FOR TREATING
    METASTATIC, ADVANCED OR RECURRENT PROSTATE CANCER” which you can read in this site;
    http://compassionateoncology.org/pdfs/3-pronged-111908.pdf

    I hope you share your experiences with us.

    Wishing the above info is of help.
    Welcome to the board.
    VGama

    PROVENGE
    Thank you. I will check out those 2 websites and if we go forward I will report.
  • mrspjd
    mrspjd Member Posts: 694 Member

    PROVENGE
    Thank you. I will check out those 2 websites and if we go forward I will report.

    Provenge, etc
    I thought Provenge was used in cases of metastatic castrate resistant, i.e. hormone refractory, disease, where chemotherapy, such as taxotere (docetaxel), has also failed. In other words, if PSA is rising in the context of continued ADT tx, then I believe that would be termed “castrate resistant PCa” (CRPC). Therefore, I’m confused by the recent posts with questions/answers that hormone tx might follow Provenge. Wondering how and why current FDA approved hormone drugs might be used after Provenge tx? ...Unless the hormone tx referred to (following Provenge) might be the not yet FDA approved Abiraterone, assuming it had not already been tried?

    Provenge is defined on the manufacturer’s (Dendreon) website as “the first FDA-approved autologous cellular immunotherapy for the treatment of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic metastatic castrate resistant (hormone refractory) prostate cancer (CRPC).” That website, which you might find helpful, was created to provide basic information to physicians and patients: www.provenge.com

    As txs such as Provenge (immunotherapy) and Abiraterone (ADT) continue to show promise in the tx of advanced metastatic disease, I've heard that the future trend in the PCa medical community may be to begin those tx protocols sooner, at earlier stages of disease, such as intermediate risk, with hopes of successful PCa abatement.

    BTW, Dr Leibowitz and Dr “Bob” (his nickname) are the same person, i.e. Dr Bob Leibowitz. He is known as a maverick in the PCa medical community and some say that many of his tx protocols for advanced metastatic PCa, while unorthodox, have shown some promise within his own clinical practice and study data; however, to the best of my knowledge, many of those tx findings have not been studied or replicated by other independent sources. That said, I’m sure he’s helped many men with end-stage disease.
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,491 Member
    mrspjd said:

    Provenge, etc
    I thought Provenge was used in cases of metastatic castrate resistant, i.e. hormone refractory, disease, where chemotherapy, such as taxotere (docetaxel), has also failed. In other words, if PSA is rising in the context of continued ADT tx, then I believe that would be termed “castrate resistant PCa” (CRPC). Therefore, I’m confused by the recent posts with questions/answers that hormone tx might follow Provenge. Wondering how and why current FDA approved hormone drugs might be used after Provenge tx? ...Unless the hormone tx referred to (following Provenge) might be the not yet FDA approved Abiraterone, assuming it had not already been tried?

    Provenge is defined on the manufacturer’s (Dendreon) website as “the first FDA-approved autologous cellular immunotherapy for the treatment of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic metastatic castrate resistant (hormone refractory) prostate cancer (CRPC).” That website, which you might find helpful, was created to provide basic information to physicians and patients: www.provenge.com

    As txs such as Provenge (immunotherapy) and Abiraterone (ADT) continue to show promise in the tx of advanced metastatic disease, I've heard that the future trend in the PCa medical community may be to begin those tx protocols sooner, at earlier stages of disease, such as intermediate risk, with hopes of successful PCa abatement.

    BTW, Dr Leibowitz and Dr “Bob” (his nickname) are the same person, i.e. Dr Bob Leibowitz. He is known as a maverick in the PCa medical community and some say that many of his tx protocols for advanced metastatic PCa, while unorthodox, have shown some promise within his own clinical practice and study data; however, to the best of my knowledge, many of those tx findings have not been studied or replicated by other independent sources. That said, I’m sure he’s helped many men with end-stage disease.

    Expect Doctors to use these new drugs in parallel with others
    Mrs
    The partner of Dr. “Bob” Leibowitz is/was Dr. Stephen Tucker (now practicing in Singapore). These doctors have long years of experience in treating PCa patients with a variety of drugs “cocktails”.
    Tucker, Leibowitz, Roundy, Myers, Labrie, Scholz, Strum, Lam and colleagues are a “collection” of oncologists, etc. who have given hope successfully to high risk patients in advanced cases as must as in low risk cases. They know well, through years of real facts in the use of many drugs (hormonal, chemo, immune, etc), about drugs side effects, dosages, their inter-reactions and risks.
    The cocktails are “fixed” according to principles in balancing interactions/reactions with the enzymes of our systems, and still do the “kill” effectively. Some drugs cause lower count of white blood cells (leukocytes) attacking the immune system functionality, others deprive enzymes from metabolizing still other drugs in the cocktail. Etc, etc, etc.

    Many of these drugs have not been approved for a particular type of treatment. Probably the most typical is the ADT3 “cocktail” of drugs (your husband’s protocol), which includes a 5-ARI (finasteride/dutasterine) not approved by FDA for use in prostate cancer but benign cases (recently it has been included in the NCCN Guidelines for the treatment of prostate cancer). Another famous drug in advanced PCa treatment is Ketokanazole which is in fact a drug to treat a variety of skin and fungal infections such as dandruff (Nizoral is its shampoo form).

    Both Provenge (immunotherapy) and Abiraterone, are drugs included in the “arsenal” of the above doctors to fight cancer. Expect them to use these new drugs in parallel with Taxotere, Emcyt, Carboplatinum, Leukine, Celebrex, Cytoxan, Revlimid, etc., before, during or after any particular protocol, independently of intermediate or advanced status and their progress.

    I have been following studies on Abiraterone which I believe will replace traditional antiandrogens such as Casodex in my close future ADT protocol. Some abstracts by Dr. Oliver Sartor, HT oncologist, and from the research team at the University of Tokyo, comment about still other drugs in the “pipeline”, which will give hope for the many that have failed radical treatments or are confronted with the question similar to the one posted above by Beverlyann (IS THAT THE LAST TREATMENT?).

    Many doctors are reluctant in prescribing non approved drugs such as Avodart for PCa cases. They would do it under the "off-label" approach because it makes it easier for them in not assuming the usual load of responsibility
    The terminologies used by the various doctors and institutions in fact have the same basic meaning on the status of a patient where HT has failed. Call it; castrate resistant (CRPC). androgen independent (AIPC) or hormone refractory prostate cancer (HRPC), etc.

    Hope this helps in your researches.
    The best to spj.
    VGama

    Note; I am not a medical doctor. I have been an avid student researching and studying prostate cancer as a survivor and continuing patient since 2000. (CM)
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166 Member
    mrspjd said:

    Provenge, etc
    I thought Provenge was used in cases of metastatic castrate resistant, i.e. hormone refractory, disease, where chemotherapy, such as taxotere (docetaxel), has also failed. In other words, if PSA is rising in the context of continued ADT tx, then I believe that would be termed “castrate resistant PCa” (CRPC). Therefore, I’m confused by the recent posts with questions/answers that hormone tx might follow Provenge. Wondering how and why current FDA approved hormone drugs might be used after Provenge tx? ...Unless the hormone tx referred to (following Provenge) might be the not yet FDA approved Abiraterone, assuming it had not already been tried?

    Provenge is defined on the manufacturer’s (Dendreon) website as “the first FDA-approved autologous cellular immunotherapy for the treatment of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic metastatic castrate resistant (hormone refractory) prostate cancer (CRPC).” That website, which you might find helpful, was created to provide basic information to physicians and patients: www.provenge.com

    As txs such as Provenge (immunotherapy) and Abiraterone (ADT) continue to show promise in the tx of advanced metastatic disease, I've heard that the future trend in the PCa medical community may be to begin those tx protocols sooner, at earlier stages of disease, such as intermediate risk, with hopes of successful PCa abatement.

    BTW, Dr Leibowitz and Dr “Bob” (his nickname) are the same person, i.e. Dr Bob Leibowitz. He is known as a maverick in the PCa medical community and some say that many of his tx protocols for advanced metastatic PCa, while unorthodox, have shown some promise within his own clinical practice and study data; however, to the best of my knowledge, many of those tx findings have not been studied or replicated by other independent sources. That said, I’m sure he’s helped many men with end-stage disease.

    I don't get it
    Like MrsPJD I too understood that Provenge was a final treatment drug after cancer had spread to other organs and that the overall extension in life expectancy was about three months. Frankly, after the billons upon billions of dollars spent on research it is disappointing to me that the latest and greatest treatment only prolongs life for a very short period of time at enormous cost.

    I do understand that perhaps the knowledge gained from use of the drug at end stages of prostate cancer may lead to additional progress at earlier stages but for most of us with prostae cancer today the liklihood that we would see a benefit from some future breakthrough seems to be slim.

    It seems to be that the present research fails to address the underlying causes of cancer in Western nations and instead tries to identify a "silver bullet" that will kill it after the fact. I suspect that the fundamental causes have much more about how we live and what we put into our bodies that feed cancer or create a chemical environment that triggers unchecked cell growth but I see little if any research there. There's no money for the drug companies in having us change our diet to avoid cancer.

    K
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,491 Member
    Kongo said:

    I don't get it
    Like MrsPJD I too understood that Provenge was a final treatment drug after cancer had spread to other organs and that the overall extension in life expectancy was about three months. Frankly, after the billons upon billions of dollars spent on research it is disappointing to me that the latest and greatest treatment only prolongs life for a very short period of time at enormous cost.

    I do understand that perhaps the knowledge gained from use of the drug at end stages of prostate cancer may lead to additional progress at earlier stages but for most of us with prostae cancer today the liklihood that we would see a benefit from some future breakthrough seems to be slim.

    It seems to be that the present research fails to address the underlying causes of cancer in Western nations and instead tries to identify a "silver bullet" that will kill it after the fact. I suspect that the fundamental causes have much more about how we live and what we put into our bodies that feed cancer or create a chemical environment that triggers unchecked cell growth but I see little if any research there. There's no money for the drug companies in having us change our diet to avoid cancer.

    K

    Genomics hold the “key” to the treatment of PCa
    Yes, Kongo, there is no Silver Bullet yet. None of the treatments available today are good enough to assure the perfect kill. It seems that they focus in treating the wound more than the “fundamental causes”, and we have to endure nasty side effects. Provenge at least gives hope in the class of most advanced cancer patients for an extension of life of about two years (in privileged cases).

    I think that genomics hold the “key” to the treatment of cancer. This may be the best shot at spending those billions for a cancer free environment.
    I read somewhere that “Tiny differences in the DNA chain can show if a person is prone to disease, or has a life-threatening condition”. BBC has also reported about a fast and low cost DNA test which can determine a person’s chances of developing certain inherited diseases on which prostate cancer seems to belong.

    According to the Wall Street Journal (Mar 10/2011), FDA has approved a drug named Benlysta which have been “discovered” from the study of genes and their purposes in the context of the DNA chain. This drug is used to treat the autoimmune disease lupus which affects kidneys, and other organs, and the news say that it is seen as a “milestone in science using genomics in medicine to develop targeted cures”.

    Have a look into this report;
    “Genetic test in three years to detect prostate cancer”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/feb/11/cancer.genetics?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

    Three years is an acceptable period to see guys being diagnosed, and that will surely propel immunologic drugs which will aim into “repairing” those uncorrected instructions.

    Can we consider this as a “Silver Bullet” ?.

    Best to you
    VGama
  • tarhoosier
    tarhoosier Member Posts: 195

    Genomics hold the “key” to the treatment of PCa
    Yes, Kongo, there is no Silver Bullet yet. None of the treatments available today are good enough to assure the perfect kill. It seems that they focus in treating the wound more than the “fundamental causes”, and we have to endure nasty side effects. Provenge at least gives hope in the class of most advanced cancer patients for an extension of life of about two years (in privileged cases).

    I think that genomics hold the “key” to the treatment of cancer. This may be the best shot at spending those billions for a cancer free environment.
    I read somewhere that “Tiny differences in the DNA chain can show if a person is prone to disease, or has a life-threatening condition”. BBC has also reported about a fast and low cost DNA test which can determine a person’s chances of developing certain inherited diseases on which prostate cancer seems to belong.

    According to the Wall Street Journal (Mar 10/2011), FDA has approved a drug named Benlysta which have been “discovered” from the study of genes and their purposes in the context of the DNA chain. This drug is used to treat the autoimmune disease lupus which affects kidneys, and other organs, and the news say that it is seen as a “milestone in science using genomics in medicine to develop targeted cures”.

    Have a look into this report;
    “Genetic test in three years to detect prostate cancer”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/feb/11/cancer.genetics?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

    Three years is an acceptable period to see guys being diagnosed, and that will surely propel immunologic drugs which will aim into “repairing” those uncorrected instructions.

    Can we consider this as a “Silver Bullet” ?.

    Best to you
    VGama

    silver bullet?
    No.

    We have ways to detect Cancer, Prostate and other. The "silver bullet" we need is the treatment for this disease that provides a cure without lingering anxiety of treatment failure. One that works against the disease in all stages. A treatment that can be successful in local and systemic disease. This magic, special, unique drug, this "Eureka" pill is not in the offing.
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166 Member

    silver bullet?
    No.

    We have ways to detect Cancer, Prostate and other. The "silver bullet" we need is the treatment for this disease that provides a cure without lingering anxiety of treatment failure. One that works against the disease in all stages. A treatment that can be successful in local and systemic disease. This magic, special, unique drug, this "Eureka" pill is not in the offing.

    Agree
    Completely
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166 Member

    Genomics hold the “key” to the treatment of PCa
    Yes, Kongo, there is no Silver Bullet yet. None of the treatments available today are good enough to assure the perfect kill. It seems that they focus in treating the wound more than the “fundamental causes”, and we have to endure nasty side effects. Provenge at least gives hope in the class of most advanced cancer patients for an extension of life of about two years (in privileged cases).

    I think that genomics hold the “key” to the treatment of cancer. This may be the best shot at spending those billions for a cancer free environment.
    I read somewhere that “Tiny differences in the DNA chain can show if a person is prone to disease, or has a life-threatening condition”. BBC has also reported about a fast and low cost DNA test which can determine a person’s chances of developing certain inherited diseases on which prostate cancer seems to belong.

    According to the Wall Street Journal (Mar 10/2011), FDA has approved a drug named Benlysta which have been “discovered” from the study of genes and their purposes in the context of the DNA chain. This drug is used to treat the autoimmune disease lupus which affects kidneys, and other organs, and the news say that it is seen as a “milestone in science using genomics in medicine to develop targeted cures”.

    Have a look into this report;
    “Genetic test in three years to detect prostate cancer”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/feb/11/cancer.genetics?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

    Three years is an acceptable period to see guys being diagnosed, and that will surely propel immunologic drugs which will aim into “repairing” those uncorrected instructions.

    Can we consider this as a “Silver Bullet” ?.

    Best to you
    VGama

    Vasco
    I agree with tarhoosier on this one, Vasco. The genetic test described in The Guardian is kind of a "so what" to me without more information. We can already detect prostate cancer and we know already those men who at higher risk than others. Waiting three years for a genetic test that only gives us what we know today (with perhaps a marginal increase in specificity) doesn't seem to me that we're making real rapid progress in the genomic aspect of treating cancer.

    Now I agree that genome research holds many promises and who knows where it will all lead someday. But we do know today that our lifestyles and diet play a much more direct role in our vulnerability to cancer. Your own experiences in Asia show you that the "secret" is in what we put in our bodies and the statistics from those countries are quite compelling.

    K

    p.s. I am not understanding what Bynlista has to do with PCa
  • mrspjd
    mrspjd Member Posts: 694 Member
    Kongo said:

    Vasco
    I agree with tarhoosier on this one, Vasco. The genetic test described in The Guardian is kind of a "so what" to me without more information. We can already detect prostate cancer and we know already those men who at higher risk than others. Waiting three years for a genetic test that only gives us what we know today (with perhaps a marginal increase in specificity) doesn't seem to me that we're making real rapid progress in the genomic aspect of treating cancer.

    Now I agree that genome research holds many promises and who knows where it will all lead someday. But we do know today that our lifestyles and diet play a much more direct role in our vulnerability to cancer. Your own experiences in Asia show you that the "secret" is in what we put in our bodies and the statistics from those countries are quite compelling.

    K

    p.s. I am not understanding what Bynlista has to do with PCa

    one single factor?
    Silver bullet, eureka pill, or magic cure...we can only hope and pray for a PCa causal discovery which might lead to cure, or vice versa. Like the origins of our universe, the best and the brightest minds have long studied theories and have yet to agree on one common causal effect.

    It seems more likely that the “answer(s)” is not black and white but instead shades of gray involving the reactions of multiple impinging forces such as DNA, internal and external chemical environment, environmental hazard exposure, diet/food sources, lifestyle choices, etc. that differ with each person. The common element, or more likely, the element combination, may hold the key to opening new scientific doors.

    Although the importance of diet/food choices (as well as exercise) is not to be overlooked as a personally manageable/controllable lifestyle option, IMHO, it is unlikely to be the single factor making a difference in proactive cancer awareness & prevention. But that said, it can’t hurt either, and my husband and I are advocates of a heart/PCa healthy diet & lifestyle.

    As Kongo writes, it appears that most current research fails to address the underlying causes of cancer/PCa on many levels, deep pocket drug companies, for one. Even though, I have to believe we will continue to see progress, perhaps answers, in our lifetime.

    mrs pjd
  • mrspjd
    mrspjd Member Posts: 694 Member
    Kongo said:

    Vasco
    I agree with tarhoosier on this one, Vasco. The genetic test described in The Guardian is kind of a "so what" to me without more information. We can already detect prostate cancer and we know already those men who at higher risk than others. Waiting three years for a genetic test that only gives us what we know today (with perhaps a marginal increase in specificity) doesn't seem to me that we're making real rapid progress in the genomic aspect of treating cancer.

    Now I agree that genome research holds many promises and who knows where it will all lead someday. But we do know today that our lifestyles and diet play a much more direct role in our vulnerability to cancer. Your own experiences in Asia show you that the "secret" is in what we put in our bodies and the statistics from those countries are quite compelling.

    K

    p.s. I am not understanding what Bynlista has to do with PCa

    Vasco
    Vasco,
    Thanks for the info. While I'm somewhat aware of a few unorthodox, parallel and combination uses of certain txs for advanced mets PCa, the use of FDA approved ADT following Provenge in CRPC patients is still a little fuzzy to me. But anything is possible.

    You’re probably already aware of this, but just to clarify: Nathan Roundy http://www.prostate-cancer.org/pcricms/sites/default/files/PDFs/Is13-2_p2.pdf
    and others, such as the renowned PCa advocate, Harry Pinchot (deceased), http://www.prostatecalif.org/files/HarryPinchot.pdf
    are lay persons like many of us on this discussion board, with no medical degree or training. They are not oncologists or doctors, but became extremely knowledgeable & self-educated through their own personal experience with, and in depth research about, PCa. Their level of PCa expertise was worthy of earning the respect of many well known medical professionals in the PCa community.
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166 Member
    mrspjd said:

    one single factor?
    Silver bullet, eureka pill, or magic cure...we can only hope and pray for a PCa causal discovery which might lead to cure, or vice versa. Like the origins of our universe, the best and the brightest minds have long studied theories and have yet to agree on one common causal effect.

    It seems more likely that the “answer(s)” is not black and white but instead shades of gray involving the reactions of multiple impinging forces such as DNA, internal and external chemical environment, environmental hazard exposure, diet/food sources, lifestyle choices, etc. that differ with each person. The common element, or more likely, the element combination, may hold the key to opening new scientific doors.

    Although the importance of diet/food choices (as well as exercise) is not to be overlooked as a personally manageable/controllable lifestyle option, IMHO, it is unlikely to be the single factor making a difference in proactive cancer awareness & prevention. But that said, it can’t hurt either, and my husband and I are advocates of a heart/PCa healthy diet & lifestyle.

    As Kongo writes, it appears that most current research fails to address the underlying causes of cancer/PCa on many levels, deep pocket drug companies, for one. Even though, I have to believe we will continue to see progress, perhaps answers, in our lifetime.

    mrs pjd

    A book
    I would commend "The China Study" to anyone wondering what might be the underlying causes of cancer and a host of other maladies we in the West suffer from.
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,491 Member
    Kongo said:

    A book
    I would commend "The China Study" to anyone wondering what might be the underlying causes of cancer and a host of other maladies we in the West suffer from.

    Genetics replacing PSA in diagnosing PCa
    My above post was confusing and I am sorry for doing so. Here is my other “Half”.

    I believe in genomics as the way to identify the “fundamental causes” of prostate cancer (pointed out by Kongo). And in doing so, genomics can guide researchers in the development of a new treatment (most probably eradicating PCa for good).

    This genomic idea began in 1993 with the discovery of the PCA3 gene in the urine which was associated to the prostate cancer by molecular biologist Marion Bussemakers. The urine test (PCA3) makes part of the group of tests used in the diagnosis of prostate cancer, and it is said to be more accurate than our “friendly” PSA which can give false alarms from enlarged benign hyperplasia.

    Genetics also play a role in the risk factors for prostate cancer as it is associated to cases of Pca running in members of the same family or in ethnic groups like Western Europeans, Asians and African Americans. Studies based on genetic principles have identified several genetic variants which are contributors to the risk of developing prostate cancer.
    I read that “…There are twenty-five genetic variants that are known to increase the risk of developing prostate cancer: seven on chromosome 8 (five of those in the 8q24 region), two on each of the following chromosomes: 2, 3, 7, 11, 17 and 19 and one on each of the following chromosomes: 4, 5, 6, 10, 22 and X".
    This means that if those variants are identified in one’s DNA, most probably that person is prone to develop Pca.

    Genetic testing for prostate cancer already exits but companies running the “business” are few and the test is very expensive ($500) when compared to the cost of a PSA. (http://www.eyeondna.com/2008/02/12/decode-launches-prca-prostate-cancer-dna-test/)

    Logically, very few are doing this test and very few studies exist to produce Tarhoosier’s Eureka pill (the Silver Bullet). The announcement by BBC about a “low cost DNA test” to determine a person’s chances of developing certain inherited diseases, is the light for a hope that we may see Genetics replacing PSA which would be the impulse to studies with sound principles, and therefore, manufacture of directional drugs, identify diets and behaviors.

    Benlysta is a drug resulting from a study that identified genetic variants linked to the systemic lupus disease. The cause was the biological activity of B-lymphocyte stimulators that contribute to the production of autoantibodies (antibodies that attack the body’s own healthy tissues).
    Drugs to “kill” prostate cancer could be produced on the same principle, as well as it could identify the foods that most contribute in the combat of those risk variants, addressing the problem at earlier stages.

    All this genomic identification are based in molecular biology regarding the formation, structure, and function of DNA, RNA and proteins, as well as their roles in the transmission of genetic information. In the “Human Genome System” we know that the genetic “information” encoded in a sequence of the DNA strand, passes to molecules of RNA through a process called transcription. RNA acts as a messenger (mRNA) to pass the information to proteins through a process called translation. The message transcribed from the gene is therefore translated into a protein product that is specialized for a particular function based on the instruction stored in the gene. (lovely study)

    Knowing the function of each gene becomes essential to the development of molecular markers and treatments for diseases, such as prostate cancer. More billions should be spent in this line of researches which in my view are in the right direction.
    National Cancer Institute has representative videos showing how genetic information is passed and how cancer may develop;
    http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/benchmarks-vol1-issue1/Video ).

    I dedicate a toast with red wine to the future of the Genomic affair.

    The best to all.
    VGama