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Something worth looking into

Posts: 33
Joined: Sep 2009

As I was reading about cancer, I came across this interesting new drug being tested that evidently has the potential to put oncology centers around the country out of business.


You may have already heard about it, you may have not, but I think it's at least worth snooping around.

lisa42's picture
Posts: 3661
Joined: Jul 2008

I always find it interesting to read about new and different kinds of treatments (I'm on an alternative treatment, myself- lovastatin and interferon). I read the article and noted that its date was in 2007. I wonder if there may be more recent articles on the site also, as I didn't click on all the links and articles that were available. I guess I'd want to check out more of the specific patient situations and testimonials. Not "dissing" it in any way, though, as I do believe that there definitely can be alternative treatments other than chemo that can really work. Thanks again for posting the info. I wonder if anyone else on this site has heard about this or has any firsthand knowledge with using this treatment?

papajedi's picture
Posts: 110
Joined: Oct 2009

How is your lovastatin and interferon going, is it working ?

cyndi2324's picture
Posts: 72
Joined: Oct 2009

You have sooo been in my thoutghts and prayers. Gee it is too bad that I lost spelling some where on this Chemo road. How are you doing? I haven't been on a lot latley was dropped out of a pahse I trial after the backs of my retnas broke out. Weird thank Gog it looks like thay went back to normal. I just started another trail this week so L have been gone all wk running over there to give blood and get drug. I so hope this works for you. You and your family have sure deserve for it to happen. I also know it will give me HOPE also.
Take care. I'm sorry I didn't answer this thread, but I hven't had much sleep and am felling YUCKY!!!

John23's picture
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007

Jakesman -

I was hesitant to post this link, but will now, to help bolster your
efforts to show that there are indeed "other ways".


I have been using Imported Chinese medicinal strength herbs
to fight my battle for the past 3+ years with 3c colon cancer.

I have also posted links to Hydrazine Sulfate, and it's apparent
ability to help late term patients.

There are many, many other very viable alternatives to Chemical therapy,
and one only has to have the courage to try a different path.

There are many quacks and useless garbage out there, so a very
in-depth investigation of each alternative must be taken.

Search the .org , .edu , and .net , rather than just the .com
web sites. The dot com are the commercial sites, while the others
are not.

Good health to all, whatever the remedy sought.

papajedi's picture
Posts: 110
Joined: Oct 2009

Am I to understand you are using herbs only ? If so I would love to know the history ect.

John23's picture
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007

Papajedi -

I've been using Imported Chinese herbs at six month intervals.

I am happy to point people in the direction of TCM, but I use
restraint in making recommendations regarding what is to be used.

My colon cancer was staged at 3c while a different onco called it a "4",
both had said that my cancer was extremely aggressive, and very high
grade (whatever that means). I had 7 out of 24 (or 28?) lymph nodes
cancerous, and it was expected that cancer is throughout my body.

They insisted that I receive Chemo as soon as the wound was healed,
saying that I cannot wait too long; a month after surgery is pushing it.

I was in ICU for a month, and my wounds did not heal until almost
six months after surgery. At that time, they said that I had less than a 50/50
chance of the chemo working at all.

After research, I found that of those with my type and grade of cancer,
26% lived five years or more without any other treatment, while
28% lived five years or more after Chemotherapy.

That gave a 2% advantage of doing chemo. I questioned the two oncos,
and they both agreed that those statistics were correct. In fact, those statistics
did not include deaths from other causes, including heart failure, liver failure,
and/or second cancers caused by chemotherapy, during the chemo treatments.

Those are the things they didn't tell me, when I first saw them.

I opted to do my own research, and found that there are herbs that are
used to kill cancer cells specifically. One of those herbs is presently being
studied by Merck, in an effort to find the chemical properties that are
managing to kill cancer cells (It is not too likely that they will accomplish much,
since that one herb alone will not do a thing; it has to be used with a second herb).

In China, both TCM and western medicine is practiced side by side in their hospitals.

Since I have become very aware of the percentiles of "doing nothing" vs Chemo......
I have also accepted the fact that the decent results I have so far experienced
may not be due to my use of herbs, any more than it could have been attributed to
chemotherapy; it may only be a matter of percentiles...

Going the "TCM" route causes no side effects, second cancers, or any loss
of immune system. In fact, TCM increases one's immune system responses.

Chemotherapy does in fact, cause tremendous side effects, second cancers
(every chemo drug is a well known carcinogenic), it causes a tremendous
loss of immune system abilities, and neurological problems (some permanent).

We all choose what path we want to go; Who's to say what path is better?

But...... we should not allow fear of the unknown to push us into paths of any kind,
or keep us from trying something we feel we might have a better chance with.

It may only be a matter of percentiles, and have absolutely nothing to to with a "path" at all!

For some interesting reading (use your own judgement)?


I am providing the following list of the herbs I have used, but only for research and -not- as a recommendation.

I have used the following herbs in decoction (9 cups water, boiled to three cups; ingest three cups per day; 6 months)
Average cost is about $140 total (per month and a half worth of herbs).

I am not offering this as a recommendation, or as a suggestion, but only as an example of what one can take,
how it is taken, and the average cost.

I am not an hebalist, nor a doctor, nor have I any schooling in the area of Traditional Chinese Medicine science.

I am providing the following list of the herbs I have used, but only for research and -not- as a recommendation.
I have listed them all in Chinese, Japanese, PinYin, Korean, and Latin, and the recommended dosages for decoction.


Oral ingestion of this herb was found to have a dose-dependent effect to enhance macrophage function and inhibit tumor growth.
Dosage: 10 ~ 30g 36g

Has anti-neoplastic properties and is used along with Bai hua she she cao to fight cancer. Together are very strong.
Dosage: 5 ~ 30g 18g

Out of 41 patients, 23 received herbal treatment only and 18 received the combination of herbal and chemotherapy treatment. The study reported an 82.5% rate of effectiveness for the herbal treatment. Preparation of Tian men dong have an inhibitory effect against the deoxygenase of cancer cells in both acute lymphocytic, and acute mononuclear cancer cell populations.
Dosage: 10 ~ 20g 20g

Increases the activity of the macrophages and reticuloendothelial system. It also increases the number of white blood cells, lymphocytes and IgG34. Bai zhu has demonstrated marked inhibitory action against esophageal cancer.
Dosage: 5 ~ 15g 15g

Has been shown to have anti-neoplastic activity due to its immune-enhancing properties. The specific effects of Ling zhi include an increase in monocytes, macrophages and T-lymphocytes. In addition, there is also an increased production of cytokine, interleukin, tumor necrosis factor and interferon.
Dosage: 1.5 ~ 9g 15g

Stops a protein needed for the cancer cell to survive. Helps to increase energy and mental function.
Dosage: 15 ~ 30g 30g

Tonifies middle jiao (improves digestive system by correct pixu conditions), corrects blood deficiency and enhances qi (lack of appetite, fatigue, thirst, diarrhea, vomiting, polapse of uterus, stomach, rectum due to pixu (spleen deficient) .
Dosage: 9 ~ 30g 10g

YIN YANG HUO ( Herba Epimedii // Epimedium grandiflorum Morr // inyokaku // umyanggwak // sin1 ling4 pei4 (仙靈脾)//yin yang huo 淫羊藿 ) ( 2 LEAVES)

Better health to all!

jillpls's picture
Posts: 241
Joined: Mar 2008

hi John, How did you find the right herbs to fight the disease? I'm at a lost. Next week I'm going to a new dr who is an MD but practices eastern meds. I'm ready to try eastern instead of western. How do you find the right dr and herbs to treat the beast??? Thanks for your help.

John23's picture
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007

Jill -

If your new doc practices TCM, he should be familiar with most
of those herbs on the list. It's not any "secret remedy", but those herbs
are usually used in a specific formula, not as single herbs.
(The first two on the list are used together always..2:1!)

The formulas are designed for each individual patient, and are
compounded by the practicing physician for that patient specifically.

I did not follow the formulas, and instead used the herbs as single items,
in more of a generic "shotgun" approach to try to kill as many cancer
cells as I could. I had been made aware that it can be handled that way
as well.

Your physician should be able to search each of those herbs and
find the corresponding formula for the additional herbs to use in
a decoction. It really isn't all that complicated!

Keep in mind, that these are not garden variety herbs; they are
medicinal grade and are quite potent.

The average individual that is unfamiliar with TCM Herbology
assumes that "herbs" are all of the type you buy in the local
health food store.... they are not.

I had time to study, and time to evaluate, and hopefully they are
doing something for me.

But as I said earlier.... there are a certain percentage of people
that will conquer cancer regardless if they do nothing, or everything....

I can't say if I'm just in that lucky percentile (so far), or not, or if
I will remain to be so fortunate.

But I made my choice after considering all the ramifications of everything
available. If I die, I'll be the healthiest dead guy in the morgue.

Take your time, and don't be afraid. Take someone with you for each and
every consultation and visit, to each and every doctor. Take notes.

You WILL do well regardless of what path you choose.

Good health!

Posts: 33
Joined: Sep 2009

I definitely acknowledge the potential quackery of any "alternative" treatment, so do as much research as possible before jumping into something.

I found this link: http://www.medicorcancer.com/DCAtherapy.html

which features some case studies of the drug. From what I've read so far, it's effective for some and not effective for others.

Posts: 62
Joined: Jun 2009

I wouldn't put dichloroacetate (DCA) into the quackery column yet. It is an exciting development in that it targets the abnormal metabolism of cancer cells (glycolytic) and temporarily restores the normal oxidative phosphorylation (citric acid cycle and so on) energy production temporarily. This is important since this energy cycle is also associated with cell death and may allow chemo-resistance to be bypassed. It represents a new type of attack on cancer cells through their abnormal metabolism.
See "Metabolic Targeting as an Anticancer Strategy: Dawn of a New Era?", by Pan and Mak

Cancer cells generally derive most of their energy from "aerobic fermentation", which relies on glycolysis alone. This pathway becomes dominant when there are certain mutations (loss of p53, mutations in pTEN and others). The end product of glycolysis is pyruvate, which is converted into lactate and transported out of the cell.

DCA seems to act by inhibiting the enzyme (LDH) that converts pyruvate into lactate, so that pyruvate is converted into acetyl-coA which enters the citric acid cycle. This restores a number of important cellular processes that allow damaged cells to die (increases reactive oxygen species, opening of some ion channels, increased cellular potassium ions). Best of all, it appears to act specifically on cells with abnormal metabolic pathways (i.e. cancer cells).

It has been used clinically for some time for patients with metabolic disorders, so a fair amount is known about the toxicology of DCA.

Perhaps most exciting is the chemical attachment of two DCA units to a platinum compound, called "mitaplatin", which simultaneously causes DNA damage (like oxaliplatin or cisplatin) while releasing DCA inside the cell. This drug may be effective against platinum-resistant cancer cells.
See the PNAS article by Lippard available from: http://www.thedcasite.com/

Happy new year.

John23's picture
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007

Thanks for the links! It's all heavy reading, but it's
good to know other things are being developed.

Happy New Year!


robmx's picture
Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 2009

I have been using DCA, Dichloroacetate for the last 17+ months. Diagnosed with stage I/II colon cancer in 11/2006. Diagnosed with metastatic colon cancer in April of 2009. Started using DCA in May 2009 and had a 50% reduction in tumor size in first three months and stable disease since.

No chemo yet, only DCA, feel fine and have no symptoms. I am a patient at a major cancer center and though they do not have any opinion on my use of DCA they do concur with and suggest that I do not go on chemo unless my tumors start growing.

DCA may be a cure for some, especially those who are young and in good shape. At 66 I can not tolerate the amount of DCA that may cure my cancer because of the side affect of peripheral neurapathy. I have stopped using DCA for two two month periods to get my PN down and at the moment have been off DCA for a month again. Younger people seem to tolerate DCA for longer periods and at higher doses.

Posts: 1
Joined: Dec 2015


John23's picture
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007


"Description of Deoxycholic Acid

Deoxycholic acid and its sodium salt are manufactured at NZP in
large volumes. In nature, deoxycholic acid, which is referred to
as a "secondary bile acid", is produced in the intestine from the
salts of glycocholic and taurocholic acid (see cholic acid ) by
the action of bacterial enzymes. Less than half of the
deoxycholic acid is absorbed by the intestine and is returned the
liver where it is conjugated and released into the gall bladder.

Deoxycholic acid is extracted from bovine bile, (also known as
"cattle bile" or "ox bile") which is a by-product of the meat
processing industry.

It is also available as the water soluble sodium salt.

Use of Deoxycholic Acid

Historically deoxycholic acid was used as an intermediate for the
production of corticosteroids
, which have anti-inflammatory

An emerging use of deoxycholic acid is as a biological detergent
to lyse cells and solubilise cellular and membrane components.

Formula: C24H40O4
Molecular Weight: 392
CAS Number: 83-44-3
Solubility: Sparingly soluble in water-soluble in alcohol and to
a lesser extent acetone and glacial acetic acid.

Deoxycholic is sealed in a polyethylene liner and packed in 25kg
fibre drums. Customer specific packaging can be provided.

Product known as
Deoxycholic Acid"

From here: http://www.nzp.co.nz/

A thousands of year old science is being used along with,
or without western medicine in Asia and other parts of the
world very successfully......

Why in the world would anyone disregard that, and turn to
factory made compositions?

Why not take some time to look at what's been around, and
what's helped billions of people for thousands of years?

For what it's worth:

"In China, the traditional medicine "Niuhuang", which in Chinese
means "Oxen Yellow" and is actually bilestone of oxen, has been
in use for two millennia for the treatment of inflammations as well as
to enhance the immune system. One of its main components is DCA.

Credit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxycholic_acid

Life does not have to be complicated!


robmx's picture
Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 2009

Unfortunately the acronym DCA seems to be used for two different things, Sodium Dichloroacetate and Deoxcholic Acid, two different things.

John23's picture
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007

"Unfortunately the acronym DCA seems to be used for two different
things, Sodium Dichloroacetate and Deoxcholic Acid, two different things."

Factoids (they're like Hemorrhoids):

Sodium deoxycholate

Name: Sodium deoxycholate
Synonyms: Deoxycholic acid sodium salt; 3a,12a-Dihydroxy-5b-cholan-24-oic acid sodium salt
From: http://www.chemblink.com/products/302-95-4.htm

Chemical Database
Acetic acid, dichloro-, sodium salt
•CAS Number: 2156-56-1
◦Acetic acid, dichloro-, sodium salt
◦Cpc 211
◦Dichloroacetic acid sodium salt
◦Dichloroctan sodny [Czech]
◦Sodium dichloroacetate
◦Sodium dichloroacetate [USAN

From: http://environmentalchemistry.com/

Sodium deoxycholate
Description of Sodium deoxycholate

In nature, sodium deoxycholate, which is referred to as a
"secondary bile acid", is produced in the intestine from the
salts of glycocholic and taurocholic acid (see cholic acid ) by
the action of bacterial enzymes. Less than half of the sodium
deoxycholate is absorbed by the intestine and is returned the
liver where it is conjugated and released into the gall bladder.

Sodium deoxycholate is extracted from cattle bile(also known as
"bovine bile" or "ox bile") , which is a by-product of the meat
processing industry, in a high temperature alkaline process.

Use of Sodium deoxycholate

Historically sodium deoxycholate was used as an intermediate for
the production of corticosteroids, which have anti-inflammatory indications.

It is used in the preparation and formulation of certain microbiological diagnostic media.

An emerging use of sodium deoxycholate acid is as a biological detergent
to lyse cells and solubilise cellular and membrane components.

Formula: C24H39NaO4
Molecular Weight: 414.55
CAS Number: 302-95-4
Solubility: Soluble in water

Sodium deoxycholate is sealed in a polyethylene liner and packed in 20 kg fibre drums. Customer specific packaging can be provided.

Product known as
Deoxycholic acid,
sodium salt

From: http://www.nzp.co.nz/products.php?cid=2&pid=251

And sometimes, a banana is just a banana.

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