Had a bad day:(
Hugs to all!
Karyn
Comments
-
Karyn
Karyn,
I'm glad you can come to the board with your feelings. We care about you and I know many people will send positive thoughts and prayers you way. I know at times those real good cries are very necessary. I'm thinking of you tonight and I've prayed for you.
Aloha,
Kathleen0 -
Thanks Karyn
I am up at 1:30am to take my painmeds/steroids etc. Your note comes to me at time when I am sharing many of the same feelings that you have named in your post. After 5 years, it is in my bone too. I think it scares me more because it sounds so deep... "in the bone!". And as you say there is the constatnt reminder of pain and decreasing function around work, etc.
This is often my time to cry... it helps me to be alone when I do that. Or perhaps that is when the "cathartic urge" wells up in me. When I'm with family, friends, or others I'm more engaged in other aspects of my emotional mental make-up.
I don't have too many places where I can take my deep fears and woes. It is why I too give thanks for this site and the honest, vulnerable, witness of people like yourself and so many others. It is worth the world to me to know that I am not alone. Having a safe place to name these deeper and darker shades also means we can have a way to "let them go" or "let it be". A daily practice...
I hope that in the new light of this morning you find strength for the road and grace for all that meets you today!
Deep peace of the dark night to you... Rob; in Van
“I cry a lot. My emotions are very close to my surface. I don't want to hold anything in so it festers and turns into pus - a pustule of emotion that explodes into a festering cesspool of depression.”
Nicolas Cage0 -
Karyn....and Rob....robinvan said:Thanks Karyn
I am up at 1:30am to take my painmeds/steroids etc. Your note comes to me at time when I am sharing many of the same feelings that you have named in your post. After 5 years, it is in my bone too. I think it scares me more because it sounds so deep... "in the bone!". And as you say there is the constatnt reminder of pain and decreasing function around work, etc.
This is often my time to cry... it helps me to be alone when I do that. Or perhaps that is when the "cathartic urge" wells up in me. When I'm with family, friends, or others I'm more engaged in other aspects of my emotional mental make-up.
I don't have too many places where I can take my deep fears and woes. It is why I too give thanks for this site and the honest, vulnerable, witness of people like yourself and so many others. It is worth the world to me to know that I am not alone. Having a safe place to name these deeper and darker shades also means we can have a way to "let them go" or "let it be". A daily practice...
I hope that in the new light of this morning you find strength for the road and grace for all that meets you today!
Deep peace of the dark night to you... Rob; in Van
“I cry a lot. My emotions are very close to my surface. I don't want to hold anything in so it festers and turns into pus - a pustule of emotion that explodes into a festering cesspool of depression.”
Nicolas Cage
...Honestly, I cry more then people think, and do have my down days, I try and stay positive, but in the back of my mind, I know this thing it going to get me sooner or later, I am afraid they can't do anything for my liver, and feel I will only be going till my liver can take it, and it will take it's toll. I live in reality as well, but am positive and hopeful that there will be something out there for me to take, maybe new methods and meds could be on the horizon, so don't lose the hope that there alot of new procedures, pain meds and treatments that we haven't heard of or done yet.
Try not to let it take you both down emotionally too down, there are days where I can forget I have cancer at all when I get out especially, but are you both on any kind of anti-depressants? I am on Zoloft which makes me snap out of it faster, it does help, I really wish you all through this, and you have fought this disease before!
My home health aide told me about one of her patients who had bone cancer in the arm, and she actually had to have it removed, it was so bad, but they made her a new prosthetic arm which looks so real she said, they build things back up from bone loss, and this was 4 years ago, and she is still cancer-free and back to cleaning house like she used too, so, never give up the hope, they didn't think woman was going to make it, and she did, and so can you! you be amazed what they can do these now :}
You both are in my thoughts and prayers, and things will hopefully get better from here
Hugsss!
~Donna0 -
Thanks AGAIN!robinvan said:Thanks Karyn
I am up at 1:30am to take my painmeds/steroids etc. Your note comes to me at time when I am sharing many of the same feelings that you have named in your post. After 5 years, it is in my bone too. I think it scares me more because it sounds so deep... "in the bone!". And as you say there is the constatnt reminder of pain and decreasing function around work, etc.
This is often my time to cry... it helps me to be alone when I do that. Or perhaps that is when the "cathartic urge" wells up in me. When I'm with family, friends, or others I'm more engaged in other aspects of my emotional mental make-up.
I don't have too many places where I can take my deep fears and woes. It is why I too give thanks for this site and the honest, vulnerable, witness of people like yourself and so many others. It is worth the world to me to know that I am not alone. Having a safe place to name these deeper and darker shades also means we can have a way to "let them go" or "let it be". A daily practice...
I hope that in the new light of this morning you find strength for the road and grace for all that meets you today!
Deep peace of the dark night to you... Rob; in Van
“I cry a lot. My emotions are very close to my surface. I don't want to hold anything in so it festers and turns into pus - a pustule of emotion that explodes into a festering cesspool of depression.”
Nicolas Cage
Yes, I was up all last night, uncomfortable with the pain. It is a constant reminder of the disease. Everyone does need a good cry. And I agree with you when you are around other people your mind is elsewhere. I've always been told that I am keeping everyone else strong! I don't want this disease to take over my mind, I want to continue to stay strong and positive. My family knows what I am going through, but the FAMILY we have here TRULY knows what the heck we're going through, so thank God for this site! And , Yes today is a better Day!
Hugs to all!
Karyn0 -
Thanks Donna!Shayenne said:Karyn....and Rob....
...Honestly, I cry more then people think, and do have my down days, I try and stay positive, but in the back of my mind, I know this thing it going to get me sooner or later, I am afraid they can't do anything for my liver, and feel I will only be going till my liver can take it, and it will take it's toll. I live in reality as well, but am positive and hopeful that there will be something out there for me to take, maybe new methods and meds could be on the horizon, so don't lose the hope that there alot of new procedures, pain meds and treatments that we haven't heard of or done yet.
Try not to let it take you both down emotionally too down, there are days where I can forget I have cancer at all when I get out especially, but are you both on any kind of anti-depressants? I am on Zoloft which makes me snap out of it faster, it does help, I really wish you all through this, and you have fought this disease before!
My home health aide told me about one of her patients who had bone cancer in the arm, and she actually had to have it removed, it was so bad, but they made her a new prosthetic arm which looks so real she said, they build things back up from bone loss, and this was 4 years ago, and she is still cancer-free and back to cleaning house like she used too, so, never give up the hope, they didn't think woman was going to make it, and she did, and so can you! you be amazed what they can do these now :}
You both are in my thoughts and prayers, and things will hopefully get better from here
Hugsss!
~Donna
Hi Donna,
Thanks for your post, Like I said, I don't have too many really bad days. But feeling the pain constantly is such a reminder that I am sick. I do have zanax to take when needed and I've been on a low dose of anti-dep. for a while. It does help. I guess I just had a bad day and needed a good cry, It actually felt good!!! Like I said to Rob, I don't know what we would all do without this site, your family and friends mean well but they truly do not know what we go through. I always read your posts and I wish you well and you are in my prayers!
Karyn :0)0 -
Thank- You KathleenKathleen808 said:Karyn
Karyn,
I'm glad you can come to the board with your feelings. We care about you and I know many people will send positive thoughts and prayers you way. I know at times those real good cries are very necessary. I'm thinking of you tonight and I've prayed for you.
Aloha,
Kathleen
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers! We always know we can count on our friends here to give us a lift when we need it! I am having a better day today! I hope your husband and daughter are doing better. I am sending prayers your way too!
Karyn0 -
karynbutterfly23 said:Thanks AGAIN!
Yes, I was up all last night, uncomfortable with the pain. It is a constant reminder of the disease. Everyone does need a good cry. And I agree with you when you are around other people your mind is elsewhere. I've always been told that I am keeping everyone else strong! I don't want this disease to take over my mind, I want to continue to stay strong and positive. My family knows what I am going through, but the FAMILY we have here TRULY knows what the heck we're going through, so thank God for this site! And , Yes today is a better Day!
Hugs to all!
Karyn
thinking of you big hugs glad today is a better day for you.0 -
Karyn...Sonia32 said:karyn
thinking of you big hugs glad today is a better day for you.
Aren't you on any type of painkillers? I'm on Oxycontin and Oxycodone, which really makes a difference in the pain, and I went from 50 mg of Zoloft to 100 mg, the oncs can always higher your dosage if thoe ones you are taking are not working for you. No one needs to suffer from this disease, there's usually something out there that helps.
Hugsss!
~Donna0 -
Hi Karyn,
I'm so Sorry to
Hi Karyn,
I'm so Sorry to hear you're feeling so low today.
A very important fact to keep in mind about our Disease is that it effects us in all three of the essences of our beings, Mentally, (emotionally), Physically (Pain and discomfort), and Spiritually (Faith). When one of these becomes overwhelming and out of balance it tends to effect the others negatively as well.
We have all experienced these feelings and fears and doubts, many times in our individual Journeys and fight constantly to maintain some sort of normal balance in our lives.
Many of us have experienced serious unexpected setbacks, recurrances, poor progmosis, and lapses of Faith, and yes, the sudden realizations that we are indeed very sick people and we're frightened and shaken to our very cores of ourselves during our struggles with this insidious Disease.
Sometimes a Good Cry is just what the Doctor ordered to get rid of some of the fears, anger, resentment, and self pity out of our systems and it helps us get back on the right track and brings back our determination to fight this Disease even harder and with renewed strengths.
You are in my prayers for many better days to come. Remember, This too shall Pass.
DennisR0 -
KarynDennisR said:Hi Karyn,
I'm so Sorry to
Hi Karyn,
I'm so Sorry to hear you're feeling so low today.
A very important fact to keep in mind about our Disease is that it effects us in all three of the essences of our beings, Mentally, (emotionally), Physically (Pain and discomfort), and Spiritually (Faith). When one of these becomes overwhelming and out of balance it tends to effect the others negatively as well.
We have all experienced these feelings and fears and doubts, many times in our individual Journeys and fight constantly to maintain some sort of normal balance in our lives.
Many of us have experienced serious unexpected setbacks, recurrances, poor progmosis, and lapses of Faith, and yes, the sudden realizations that we are indeed very sick people and we're frightened and shaken to our very cores of ourselves during our struggles with this insidious Disease.
Sometimes a Good Cry is just what the Doctor ordered to get rid of some of the fears, anger, resentment, and self pity out of our systems and it helps us get back on the right track and brings back our determination to fight this Disease even harder and with renewed strengths.
You are in my prayers for many better days to come. Remember, This too shall Pass.
DennisR
I am sorry you are not feeling well .Cancer is scarey period, just know i am thinking of you and wishing you well.
michelle0 -
We all have them days
I had one too on Tuesday. I called my brother and we cryed together. It was not the first time. You're going to have them days and I think it's a good thing we do becouse it helps us cope. It's a lot we're going through0 -
Sorryjust4Brooks said:We all have them days
I had one too on Tuesday. I called my brother and we cryed together. It was not the first time. You're going to have them days and I think it's a good thing we do becouse it helps us cope. It's a lot we're going through
I'm so sorry you are going through this pain and emotional state. No one can be positive all the time. I know I wear my heart on my sleeve and I can cry at the drop of a hat. Having cancer even makes it worse for me as I think about all the doctors I have seen and how far I've come. Don't beat yourself up for crying. Everyone needs it - that's why we have tear ducts. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Kim0 -
We are humanjust4Brooks said:We all have them days
I had one too on Tuesday. I called my brother and we cryed together. It was not the first time. You're going to have them days and I think it's a good thing we do becouse it helps us cope. It's a lot we're going through
HI Karyn, As strong as most of us are, we are only human. There has to be some down days, thats what makes us stronger to keep going and be prepared for another day. The breakdowns are normal, don't ever feel alone. We are all here for you. I statred a blog for my family and friends. Not only does it keep hem updated, I write all my feelings down, sometimes I cry while I write, but its my way to vent. I look back at my posts sometimes and can't believe how far I have come. Hope you find your strength. sending you positive energy and hugs.. You have done great, you have to prepare yourself for another fight. I can tell in your words, that you will do it... Petrina0 -
venting is important
Hi Karyn,
I'm so glad you came here to vent. I did the same thing about a week and a half ago- got great support and I really am feeling so much better in the past few days. Not that my situation has changed a whole lot, but I now feel better equipped to handle it all. I'm not talking just about my cancer, but also about family issues I've been dealing with- I have a husband and three kids who all suffer from depression. Even though I'm the one with the stage IV cancer and am undergoing chemo, I'm the one who supports the whole family emotionally and practically in day to day things. My husband just doesn't see that he's not doing what he should be doing emotionally for me and for the kids. Anyhow, I've sought out ways to help them see that they need help & I'm getting it for two of three kids now and things are a little better.
Anyhow, I received a huge amount of support and a lot of great advice from members on this board. This is a great place to come for that!
I'm so sorry about the pain you have with it being in your spine. Have you tried anything alternative like accupuncture or- dare I say it- medical marijuana? I've tried the accupuncture but not the marijuana. I know of others on this board who use it and say it works way better than anything prescription. I'm just a little too paranoid to try it- especially with a 16 yr old son who recently got in trouble for smoking it. I don't want him to joke about his mom now using it! If I did go that route, I might try the THC pills (marijuana in pill form), which can be prescribed. I bet most doctors don't mention it out of fear of offending. Probably the patient would need to ask about it.
So far as the accupuncture, I've had some good pain relief from it. I don't have spine pain, but I do have a lot of pain in my left foot, my knee, and my neck and lower back (which I guess is spine pain after all- it's just not due to the cancer- I'm thinking it could be from radiation and/or chemo, though). Anyhow, the cancer center I now go to (I changed in June after going to a different place for a year and half)- they offer alternative treatments. They offer FREE to their patients accupuncture, massages, and meditation. I don't go for the meditation, and I'd love to have massages- I just haven't done it yet, but I have had the accupuncture now 5 times. It works!! Only this last time, when the gal tried it in a slightly different way, did I not have good results. The other four times it really did work! Each of those times, my pain actually got worse throughout the day and into the night, where I thought it surely wasn't working. But then, each time, I woke up the next morning and the pain was either gone or much, much better. It would last about a week each time, then I'd need to go back. It really didn't hurt either (except the needle in the bottom of my foot to work on heel pain I have there)- the others didn't hurt and actually almost felt good going in, as weird as that sounds. As I said my place offers it for free- it costs about $75 a session if you go out on your own. If your own cancer center doesn't offer it, I'd google and ask around at some of the other places near you. My center allows all cancer patients (even those who don't go there or get any kind of treatment for cancer there) to come in (still for free) up to twice a month for any of their alternative services, if there's room (patients of the center have priority). I know of another person on this board who lives near to me who does not get her cancer treatments at my same center, but has gone there for some of their alternative therapies and also was very pleased.
So, anyhow, I wish you the best. Reality does hurt and it slaps hard sometimes, doesn't it? You can get back to that "fighting mode", especially if you can get your pain under control.
Take care, my dear.
Blessings to you,
Lisa0 -
It's normal
To have bad days! And you have been fighting this since 2008. There is always hope and keep fighting! It is such a long, tough journey that noone can know what you are going through. Cry, scream, get mad. I think that it is normal and healthy to feel all the things you are feeling. I'm keeping you in my prayers.
Marie0 -
Thank-You Lisalisa42 said:venting is important
Hi Karyn,
I'm so glad you came here to vent. I did the same thing about a week and a half ago- got great support and I really am feeling so much better in the past few days. Not that my situation has changed a whole lot, but I now feel better equipped to handle it all. I'm not talking just about my cancer, but also about family issues I've been dealing with- I have a husband and three kids who all suffer from depression. Even though I'm the one with the stage IV cancer and am undergoing chemo, I'm the one who supports the whole family emotionally and practically in day to day things. My husband just doesn't see that he's not doing what he should be doing emotionally for me and for the kids. Anyhow, I've sought out ways to help them see that they need help & I'm getting it for two of three kids now and things are a little better.
Anyhow, I received a huge amount of support and a lot of great advice from members on this board. This is a great place to come for that!
I'm so sorry about the pain you have with it being in your spine. Have you tried anything alternative like accupuncture or- dare I say it- medical marijuana? I've tried the accupuncture but not the marijuana. I know of others on this board who use it and say it works way better than anything prescription. I'm just a little too paranoid to try it- especially with a 16 yr old son who recently got in trouble for smoking it. I don't want him to joke about his mom now using it! If I did go that route, I might try the THC pills (marijuana in pill form), which can be prescribed. I bet most doctors don't mention it out of fear of offending. Probably the patient would need to ask about it.
So far as the accupuncture, I've had some good pain relief from it. I don't have spine pain, but I do have a lot of pain in my left foot, my knee, and my neck and lower back (which I guess is spine pain after all- it's just not due to the cancer- I'm thinking it could be from radiation and/or chemo, though). Anyhow, the cancer center I now go to (I changed in June after going to a different place for a year and half)- they offer alternative treatments. They offer FREE to their patients accupuncture, massages, and meditation. I don't go for the meditation, and I'd love to have massages- I just haven't done it yet, but I have had the accupuncture now 5 times. It works!! Only this last time, when the gal tried it in a slightly different way, did I not have good results. The other four times it really did work! Each of those times, my pain actually got worse throughout the day and into the night, where I thought it surely wasn't working. But then, each time, I woke up the next morning and the pain was either gone or much, much better. It would last about a week each time, then I'd need to go back. It really didn't hurt either (except the needle in the bottom of my foot to work on heel pain I have there)- the others didn't hurt and actually almost felt good going in, as weird as that sounds. As I said my place offers it for free- it costs about $75 a session if you go out on your own. If your own cancer center doesn't offer it, I'd google and ask around at some of the other places near you. My center allows all cancer patients (even those who don't go there or get any kind of treatment for cancer there) to come in (still for free) up to twice a month for any of their alternative services, if there's room (patients of the center have priority). I know of another person on this board who lives near to me who does not get her cancer treatments at my same center, but has gone there for some of their alternative therapies and also was very pleased.
So, anyhow, I wish you the best. Reality does hurt and it slaps hard sometimes, doesn't it? You can get back to that "fighting mode", especially if you can get your pain under control.
Take care, my dear.
Blessings to you,
Lisa
Hi Lisa, Wow, you are full of information! I will definately look into the acupuncture. We have a few centers I can check. I am on vicoden for the pain. I see my oncologist on Monday. I should be starting chemo next week again. I'm wondering when I start up again if the pain will subside. This bone cancer is all new to me. I do have some questions for him. it all happened to fast, I found out one day and within a few days I was in radiation. My doctor is right on top of things, there's no fooling around with him. I know he will give me what I can handle! That's what I love about him! Yes, you are right reality does hit hard sometimes! It sure sounds like you have your hands full with your family too. That must be very difficult for you to handle everything! But like we all say, this is the place to vent, laugh, cry and be supportive to others! Prayers are coming your way!
Hugs!
Karyn0 -
A couple of questions.butterfly23 said:Thank-You Lisa
Hi Lisa, Wow, you are full of information! I will definately look into the acupuncture. We have a few centers I can check. I am on vicoden for the pain. I see my oncologist on Monday. I should be starting chemo next week again. I'm wondering when I start up again if the pain will subside. This bone cancer is all new to me. I do have some questions for him. it all happened to fast, I found out one day and within a few days I was in radiation. My doctor is right on top of things, there's no fooling around with him. I know he will give me what I can handle! That's what I love about him! Yes, you are right reality does hit hard sometimes! It sure sounds like you have your hands full with your family too. That must be very difficult for you to handle everything! But like we all say, this is the place to vent, laugh, cry and be supportive to others! Prayers are coming your way!
Hugs!
Karyn
Hi Karyn,
I'm glad your day has progressed well. I have a couple of questions. Where in your spine is your cancer? Are they mets or local spread? Your new chemo regime... is it to fight lung mets, bone, or both? I'm curious in relation to my own situation.
Rob; in Van0 -
I'm sorry, Karyn
Karyn,
I pray for everyone on this board every day, as well.
I hope you will find a solution that will help the pain. I think it's just next to impossible to stay positive when you're in lots of pain.
I don't know if you're a tea drinker, but when I'm feeling down, it helps to have a nice cup of tea and just relax. You might try something calming like chamomile.
*hugs*
Gail0 -
I agree with Lisa about acupuncturelisa42 said:venting is important
Hi Karyn,
I'm so glad you came here to vent. I did the same thing about a week and a half ago- got great support and I really am feeling so much better in the past few days. Not that my situation has changed a whole lot, but I now feel better equipped to handle it all. I'm not talking just about my cancer, but also about family issues I've been dealing with- I have a husband and three kids who all suffer from depression. Even though I'm the one with the stage IV cancer and am undergoing chemo, I'm the one who supports the whole family emotionally and practically in day to day things. My husband just doesn't see that he's not doing what he should be doing emotionally for me and for the kids. Anyhow, I've sought out ways to help them see that they need help & I'm getting it for two of three kids now and things are a little better.
Anyhow, I received a huge amount of support and a lot of great advice from members on this board. This is a great place to come for that!
I'm so sorry about the pain you have with it being in your spine. Have you tried anything alternative like accupuncture or- dare I say it- medical marijuana? I've tried the accupuncture but not the marijuana. I know of others on this board who use it and say it works way better than anything prescription. I'm just a little too paranoid to try it- especially with a 16 yr old son who recently got in trouble for smoking it. I don't want him to joke about his mom now using it! If I did go that route, I might try the THC pills (marijuana in pill form), which can be prescribed. I bet most doctors don't mention it out of fear of offending. Probably the patient would need to ask about it.
So far as the accupuncture, I've had some good pain relief from it. I don't have spine pain, but I do have a lot of pain in my left foot, my knee, and my neck and lower back (which I guess is spine pain after all- it's just not due to the cancer- I'm thinking it could be from radiation and/or chemo, though). Anyhow, the cancer center I now go to (I changed in June after going to a different place for a year and half)- they offer alternative treatments. They offer FREE to their patients accupuncture, massages, and meditation. I don't go for the meditation, and I'd love to have massages- I just haven't done it yet, but I have had the accupuncture now 5 times. It works!! Only this last time, when the gal tried it in a slightly different way, did I not have good results. The other four times it really did work! Each of those times, my pain actually got worse throughout the day and into the night, where I thought it surely wasn't working. But then, each time, I woke up the next morning and the pain was either gone or much, much better. It would last about a week each time, then I'd need to go back. It really didn't hurt either (except the needle in the bottom of my foot to work on heel pain I have there)- the others didn't hurt and actually almost felt good going in, as weird as that sounds. As I said my place offers it for free- it costs about $75 a session if you go out on your own. If your own cancer center doesn't offer it, I'd google and ask around at some of the other places near you. My center allows all cancer patients (even those who don't go there or get any kind of treatment for cancer there) to come in (still for free) up to twice a month for any of their alternative services, if there's room (patients of the center have priority). I know of another person on this board who lives near to me who does not get her cancer treatments at my same center, but has gone there for some of their alternative therapies and also was very pleased.
So, anyhow, I wish you the best. Reality does hurt and it slaps hard sometimes, doesn't it? You can get back to that "fighting mode", especially if you can get your pain under control.
Take care, my dear.
Blessings to you,
Lisa
Karyn,
I do not have mets in the bones, but radiation left my hip joints with osteoarthritis. For a while, I couldn't walk, and had to use a wheelchair if I went anywhere involving walking. I am allergic to all the anti-inflammatory drugs, so my oncologist suggested acupuncture. It's working. Yesterday I walked a mile and a half. I haven't used a wheelchair in two months. Yes, it's expensive ($70/hour around here) but I had an 'angel' anonymously pay for 10 sessions for me. And our hospital/cancer center has a scholarship program to help those who need it. Check into it.
Many hugs, Vicki0 -
Couple of answersrobinvan said:A couple of questions.
Hi Karyn,
I'm glad your day has progressed well. I have a couple of questions. Where in your spine is your cancer? Are they mets or local spread? Your new chemo regime... is it to fight lung mets, bone, or both? I'm curious in relation to my own situation.
Rob; in Van
Hi Rob.
My cancer in the spine a local spread, it is in the lumbar part (upper) But my lungs are mets, i have several spots and some are 1/4 cm . I found out within a month that it spread to both areas. At the time I did 2 rounds of xeloda olyaplatin and avastin, When we found it in the spine we immediately started 10 rounds of radiation. The are it is in my spine could cause paralysis. The tumor is on the outside of the spinal cord and it recentaly started to hit my nerves VERY PAINFUL! Last night I was up all night again with the pain, There is nothing like nerve pain! I am calling my onc. today. But I do have a appt. with him on Monday to see about starting my chemo up again. Feel free for any other questions! Like I said we are the few to have is in the bone!
Prayers to you!
Karyn p.s. I don't know if I told you before, after your rad. treatments put corn starch on the area, I never got burned! The nurses gave me that info!0
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