can't talk about it

wearetogether

My 60 year old husband is a prostate cancer survivor. He had surgery about 4 years ago and then radiation about 6 months ago. It seems to be eradicated. For that we are very, very happy and thankful.

However, as he is retiring from teaching now, we are looking into health insurance policies to replace the one he had as a teacher. I was studying and comparing some of our options, and I suggested that we go with a plan with either the smallest deductible or the middle range deductible since he's had cancer before and might be susceptible to other types of cancer in the future. He's from the Poughkeepsie area from a time when the Hudson River was polluted. So many people from that time have had cancer. His best friend died of leukemia when he was only a young adult, and his mother died of kidney cancer.

He went balistic! He screamed and said I should never say that again, among many other hurtful things, and then because I just added that I didn't mean I wished that on him, he threw a glass of water on me, and then the cup it was in. Now, he's fuming in one bedroom, and I'm crying in another At first I was mad, and railed at him on the other side of the door. I told him I didn't deserve that, that I have taken care of him through it all without complaining. (He's just had his second hernia surgery, about 5 days ago, for a hernia that resulted from the cancer surgery.) He asked me to research these policies, because he didn't feel like it, and he feels the pressure of these decisions weighing on him. Yet, he doesn't want to talk about realities. I didn't realize he would be so sensitive about it. If I'd of known, I wouldn't have said anything. He just wants to act like he's in the best of health now, and will never ever be seriously ill again.

Pennymac02

Oh man, how awful. As I was
Oh man, how awful. As I was reading your post I could picture the argument. I think your husband reponded with the anger fueled from fear because you inadvertantly voiced his unspoken worries. One of the unfortunate side effects of being a caregiver is the walking on egg shells dilemma. I don't really have any words of wisdom, I just wanted to sympathize.
(((Hugs)))
Penny

zinniemay

with Penny
I agree with Penny he may have had this fear in side long before . It is a tight rope walk that sometimes we walk. Not knowing what to say or when to say it. Darn if we do darn if we don't..
I am sorry he is so arngy, that he would do that to you. That is sad.

Noellesmom

Dear together
You did nothing wrong and everything right. You faced what is likely an eventually and it sounds like your husband, an obviously educated man, is choosing not to do so, at least at this time.

It is his right as a cancer victim to not entertain such thoughts: it is your responsibility as the caregiver to do so in a way that will allow you to take care of him and of YOURSELF when and if this unpleasant consideration becomes a reality.

You are to be congratulated for facing it honestly - how refreshing to hear that you did!

Please know that your husband is afraid of many things, spoken and unspoken, and that you are his safe place - the only reason he could show that much emotion in front of you is because he feels safe.

However, upset or not, that water-throwing episode is abuse and you shouldn't put up with it. You don't want to see it escalate. Please make it clear to him that while he is free to express his feelings, that was inappropriate and unfair.

You are not alone, wearetogether. You have many sympathetic and empathic ears to listen to you. We are watching and waiting here on this site.

Hugs.

wearetogether

Pennymac02 said:

Oh man, how awful. As I was
Oh man, how awful. As I was reading your post I could picture the argument. I think your husband reponded with the anger fueled from fear because you inadvertantly voiced his unspoken worries. One of the unfortunate side effects of being a caregiver is the walking on egg shells dilemma. I don't really have any words of wisdom, I just wanted to sympathize.
(((Hugs)))
Penny

can't talk about it
Thanks so much for your sympathy, and I feel so much better knowing I'm not alone. I wish the best with yours. Let me know when I can help

skipper85

Not Acceptable Behavior

Although your husband may be afraid of facing cancer in the future there is no excuse for his behavior. That is abuse and is unacceptable. Let him know it.

Unfortunately I understand what it's like to be a caregiver to someone like that. My husband has not done anything abusive (yet) but he's in serious denial and gets very angry when I ask him if he's used his spirometer or suggest that he start using the oxygen that he was prescribed, medication etc. He won't talk about his cancer (stage IV) and that puts a strain on me but I'm trying to work with it.

You have lots of support on this board. I'll pray for you and your husband. Have you thought of joinging a caregiver support group even while he's cancer free? I think you might really benefit from it.

(((HUGS)))

Skipper85

wearetogether

Noellesmom said:

Dear together
You did nothing wrong and everything right. You faced what is likely an eventually and it sounds like your husband, an obviously educated man, is choosing not to do so, at least at this time.

It is his right as a cancer victim to not entertain such thoughts: it is your responsibility as the caregiver to do so in a way that will allow you to take care of him and of YOURSELF when and if this unpleasant consideration becomes a reality.

You are to be congratulated for facing it honestly - how refreshing to hear that you did!

Please know that your husband is afraid of many things, spoken and unspoken, and that you are his safe place - the only reason he could show that much emotion in front of you is because he feels safe.

However, upset or not, that water-throwing episode is abuse and you shouldn't put up with it. You don't want to see it escalate. Please make it clear to him that while he is free to express his feelings, that was inappropriate and unfair.

You are not alone, wearetogether. You have many sympathetic and empathic ears to listen to you. We are watching and waiting here on this site.

Hugs.

to Noellesmom
Your words really comforted me. Yes, I do tend to face things. I've had to. My parents both went through severe health problems, and I was with them, especially with my dad, who died 27 years ago now. My mom died only 2 years ago, and I was her secondary caregiver off and on for 4 years, relieving my sister when I could, and then the primary one for her last 2 years which she spent in a personal care home near my house.

I was a missionary for almost 20 years in Mexico, with my first husband. Then I lived through a nervous breakdown after that husband of 28 years left me a little over ten years ago. He had some serious emotional problems, tended to emotionally abuse me, and blamed me for his problems. As a result I had to leave my home and my career in Mexico City to come back here and reinvent myself, after spending some time in a hospital and therapy, and going on anti-depression meds, which I still take. Depression seems to be a genetic tendency in my family.

I met T, and he's helped erase so much of that pain, because generally he's a very jovial type of personality. He has some serious baggage, however, that raises it's ugly head occassionally, especially when he's in physical pain from a surgery, or extremely stressed over work, or comes face to face with bad memories from childhood. He was abused, and his parents were in denial about it. He still dislikes his dad, but I admire him for keeping in touch over the phone with him. They restrict their conversations generally to safe zones, and live 1000 miles apart, which is probably good for both of them. His dad wasn't the abuser, but the abuser lived with them when he was a boy. In a way his dad was an abuser, too, because he, as a workaholic, didn't give my hubby much if any quality time, and turned a blind eye to obvious symptoms that he displayed then of abuse. His dad didn't go to any of his games, and T was extremely involved in sports. His dad still tends to carry on a monologue conversation, and doesn't listen well to anyone. So, if T is talking, and I just try to interject something in our conversation while he's talking, he gets mad and says I "always" interrupt, and "never" listen, and that as a result he can't talk to me about anything meaningful. That really hurt. I read someone else's letter here that was having a similar experience. That helped, too.

He also never was around his mom when she was dying of kidney cancer about 12 years ago. He wouldn't even go in the funeral, but stood outside. He's adamantly against smoking because he believes that's what caused his mom's cancer. They were very close by that time in his life. His best friend married his sister, and after having 2 kids died of leukemia. T blamed it on the pollution of the Hudson River during those years, but that's exactly why I'm afraid of T having more cancer. I just don't know how much water he drank from that source, even though they lived a little outside of the city of Poughkeepsie, and had their own water source. He did visit friends and went to school there. That's where my comment last night sprang from, and I tried to explain that to him in a letter of apology I wrote to him last night. I only apologized for being untactful during this time of recuperating from a very painful hernia surgery.

So, I'm really trying to help him heal those hurts, and really listen. However, as a result I don't get to talk much. I can't tell my friends or my family these thoughts, because I don't want them to misunderstand him and dislike him. My kids have seen him get angry with me before, and it really turned them off of him for a long time. Now their relationships are much better, and I don't want to spoil that.

As I said, when things are normal, he acts more normal and is fun to be with, and less prone to outbursts. Also, he does tend to apologize sincerely, and tries to make up for it in some way, which is more than I can say for my first husband!

wearetogether

skipper85 said:

Not Acceptable Behavior

Although your husband may be afraid of facing cancer in the future there is no excuse for his behavior. That is abuse and is unacceptable. Let him know it.

Unfortunately I understand what it's like to be a caregiver to someone like that. My husband has not done anything abusive (yet) but he's in serious denial and gets very angry when I ask him if he's used his spirometer or suggest that he start using the oxygen that he was prescribed, medication etc. He won't talk about his cancer (stage IV) and that puts a strain on me but I'm trying to work with it.

You have lots of support on this board. I'll pray for you and your husband. Have you thought of joinging a caregiver support group even while he's cancer free? I think you might really benefit from it.

(((HUGS)))

Skipper85

skipper85, thanks!
Yes, there is really no excuse for his behavior, and I didn't give him one in my letter to him. (He got up and left for work before I got up, and took the letter with him.) I just said I was sorry for bringing up such a difficult subject at this time, while he was still in pain. He will take responsibility for his actions. At least that's what he's done in the past. The only time he didn't was when he had just come out of prostate cancer surgery and was having to deal with a catheter while showering. He was on pain meds, but they weren't helping much. I tried to help him, as he asked, but I inadvertantly hurt him. He exploded with a "F... you! Get out!" Which I did, called a friend of his to come and stay with him, while I went out for a massage and a mani/pedi! Much later I told him about it, and he didn't remember it ever happening.

T never really tried to avoid treating the cancer. We both actively explored all the possible treatments for about 3 months, and he went on a vegetarian diet in the meantime. He was in an intermediate stage of cancer at that time. However, he is in denial now about that possibility of it ever coming back, or of another cancer ever developing.

So, I can't force him to see that. I'm trying to learn that lesson, but it's difficult. I can pray that he will come to terms with it. I've seen God work in that way before. I will pray for that for your husband, too, so he'll see the need to do what he needs to do.

I did experience something like you are with your hubby. I was frustrated after the major surgery 5 years ago, because T wouldn't do the exercises that the urologist suggested to bring back his sexual muscles. The surgeon didn't have to cut any of those nerves, and said it was a real possibility. But, T just said he'd given up on ever having sex again. That angered me, because I enjoyed sex with him, and he wouldn't even do it for me. I did online research and even showed him articles that said that sexual abilities often do come back after a couple of years. He didn't believe it, however. Well, without the exercises, they did come back, but it took 3 years. That was a very difficult time for me, but it didn't seem to bother him. Now he praises me for not giving up on him, and he does enjoy sex every now and then, but not nearly as often as before. Oh, well. I have my own toys in the meantime, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I use them when needed. It really helps my stress level, and helps keep me healthy, too.

Noellesmom

wearetogether said:

to Noellesmom
Your words really comforted me. Yes, I do tend to face things. I've had to. My parents both went through severe health problems, and I was with them, especially with my dad, who died 27 years ago now. My mom died only 2 years ago, and I was her secondary caregiver off and on for 4 years, relieving my sister when I could, and then the primary one for her last 2 years which she spent in a personal care home near my house.

I was a missionary for almost 20 years in Mexico, with my first husband. Then I lived through a nervous breakdown after that husband of 28 years left me a little over ten years ago. He had some serious emotional problems, tended to emotionally abuse me, and blamed me for his problems. As a result I had to leave my home and my career in Mexico City to come back here and reinvent myself, after spending some time in a hospital and therapy, and going on anti-depression meds, which I still take. Depression seems to be a genetic tendency in my family.

I met T, and he's helped erase so much of that pain, because generally he's a very jovial type of personality. He has some serious baggage, however, that raises it's ugly head occassionally, especially when he's in physical pain from a surgery, or extremely stressed over work, or comes face to face with bad memories from childhood. He was abused, and his parents were in denial about it. He still dislikes his dad, but I admire him for keeping in touch over the phone with him. They restrict their conversations generally to safe zones, and live 1000 miles apart, which is probably good for both of them. His dad wasn't the abuser, but the abuser lived with them when he was a boy. In a way his dad was an abuser, too, because he, as a workaholic, didn't give my hubby much if any quality time, and turned a blind eye to obvious symptoms that he displayed then of abuse. His dad didn't go to any of his games, and T was extremely involved in sports. His dad still tends to carry on a monologue conversation, and doesn't listen well to anyone. So, if T is talking, and I just try to interject something in our conversation while he's talking, he gets mad and says I "always" interrupt, and "never" listen, and that as a result he can't talk to me about anything meaningful. That really hurt. I read someone else's letter here that was having a similar experience. That helped, too.

He also never was around his mom when she was dying of kidney cancer about 12 years ago. He wouldn't even go in the funeral, but stood outside. He's adamantly against smoking because he believes that's what caused his mom's cancer. They were very close by that time in his life. His best friend married his sister, and after having 2 kids died of leukemia. T blamed it on the pollution of the Hudson River during those years, but that's exactly why I'm afraid of T having more cancer. I just don't know how much water he drank from that source, even though they lived a little outside of the city of Poughkeepsie, and had their own water source. He did visit friends and went to school there. That's where my comment last night sprang from, and I tried to explain that to him in a letter of apology I wrote to him last night. I only apologized for being untactful during this time of recuperating from a very painful hernia surgery.

So, I'm really trying to help him heal those hurts, and really listen. However, as a result I don't get to talk much. I can't tell my friends or my family these thoughts, because I don't want them to misunderstand him and dislike him. My kids have seen him get angry with me before, and it really turned them off of him for a long time. Now their relationships are much better, and I don't want to spoil that.

As I said, when things are normal, he acts more normal and is fun to be with, and less prone to outbursts. Also, he does tend to apologize sincerely, and tries to make up for it in some way, which is more than I can say for my first husband!

it's complicated
I hear what you are saying, but I also know that apologies never really take away all the pain, no matter how much we may want them to. I am glad T apologizes as long as you realize that doesn't excuse it the next go round.

You can't protect people from themselves and it sounds like you are really concerned he might end up damaging the relationships you have seen him develop with your friends and family. You can't stop that forever, no matter how much you might want to, together.

And it is possible to love someone like T, in spite of the fact it may not be good for us. Loving someone and liking them are sometimes two different things.

Prayers for you as you go through difficult times.

Remember to come back here and TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.

Hugs.

ketziah35

The business side of marriage!
I believe I had a similar type of argument when I told my husband that he got his life insurance from Walmart, but alas after he fumed I informed him that if he loved me so much he needed to consider "making sure our family is prepared for what ifs based on the best available knowledge we have".

Not advising, but just sharing a story.