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6-Month PSA Results Following CyberKnife Treatment

Kongo
Kongo Member Posts: 1,166
edited March 2014 in Prostate Cancer #1
My six month PSA test result came back today at 0.87 ng/ml. I had CyberKnife treatment for PCa staged at T1c, Gleason 3+3=6, 1 of 12 positive cores at 15% involvement. Dx PSA was 4.3. My 3 month PSA reading was 1.35. Have had zero side effects following this treatment in July.
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Comments

  • Will_10_2010
    Will_10_2010 Member Posts: 43
    If I understand your data,
    If I understand your data, your scores are going down (like in golf, this is good). I'm not sure what DX or ng/ml are but the numbers are lower. Congratulations!! Thanks for what you contribute to this site.
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166

    If I understand your data,
    If I understand your data, your scores are going down (like in golf, this is good). I'm not sure what DX or ng/ml are but the numbers are lower. Congratulations!! Thanks for what you contribute to this site.

    Thanks, Will
    Dx is just an abbreviation some of us use to designate diagnosis. Ng/ml is the unit of measurement for PSA: nanograms per milliliter. Men who have initial radiation treatment for prostate cancer expect to see their PSA readings drop from their pre-treatment level over a period of about 18 months to finally settle in at a nadir, or lowest level, that should be less than 0.1 ng/ml. I'm very happy that my levels are dropping as predicted.

    I hope your recovery from your recent surgery continues to progress smoothly and best wishes for a happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year.
  • mrspjd
    mrspjd Member Posts: 694
    Kongo said:

    Thanks, Will
    Dx is just an abbreviation some of us use to designate diagnosis. Ng/ml is the unit of measurement for PSA: nanograms per milliliter. Men who have initial radiation treatment for prostate cancer expect to see their PSA readings drop from their pre-treatment level over a period of about 18 months to finally settle in at a nadir, or lowest level, that should be less than 0.1 ng/ml. I'm very happy that my levels are dropping as predicted.

    I hope your recovery from your recent surgery continues to progress smoothly and best wishes for a happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year.

    Congrats!
    Kongo,
    Thanks for sharing the great news and continuing updates. Wishing you every success now and in the future.
    mrs pjd
  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,013
    Congratulations, Kongo!
    Congratulations, Kongo!

    Sounds like you've had a perfect PSA history and post-CK result so far. My PSA results have not been so ideal. The following is my PSA history to date.

    Pre-biospy: PSA 2.9 (10/12/06), 3.4 (3/21/08) and 4.5 (1/7/10). Urologist did a biopsy on 1/25/10 based on the rising numbers and found 1 cancerous core out of 10 (less than 0.5mm involved; confirmed by Dr. Jonathan Epstein @ Johns Hopkins).

    My PSA results have been VERY erratic since my biopsy. Post biopsy: PSA 29.7! (3/30/10), then 8.6 (4/20/10) and 5.9 (6/22/10) -- almost back to the pre-biopsy level.

    CK Treatments at UCSF (4 factions; 9.5Gy each): 9/15/10, 9/17/10, 9/20/10 & 9/22/10. No pre-CK PSA baseline taken in Sep 2010. Post CK: PSA 12.30! (12/3/10) and 9.48 (12/15/10).

    RO thinks the PSA results are due to prostatitis cased by the CK treatment (similar to what happened after the biopsy) and is not worried since the followup test on 12/15/10 went down (not up).

    Worrisome & disconcerting to me nonetheless. Had lengthy discussion w/RO about how do we know if CK failed or not and what do we do if it did fail? All hypothetical and nothing can be determined or done until we get a consistent trend in PSA results.

    Physiologically, no ED (and still have pre/post ejaculate fluid but w/reduced volume), no rectal problems and still have some urinary frequency/urgency issues but nothing causing any major concern or problems.

    Next PSA due in March. Will have wait to see where the PSA is then. Oh well . . .
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,431 **

    Congratulations, Kongo!
    Congratulations, Kongo!

    Sounds like you've had a perfect PSA history and post-CK result so far. My PSA results have not been so ideal. The following is my PSA history to date.

    Pre-biospy: PSA 2.9 (10/12/06), 3.4 (3/21/08) and 4.5 (1/7/10). Urologist did a biopsy on 1/25/10 based on the rising numbers and found 1 cancerous core out of 10 (less than 0.5mm involved; confirmed by Dr. Jonathan Epstein @ Johns Hopkins).

    My PSA results have been VERY erratic since my biopsy. Post biopsy: PSA 29.7! (3/30/10), then 8.6 (4/20/10) and 5.9 (6/22/10) -- almost back to the pre-biopsy level.

    CK Treatments at UCSF (4 factions; 9.5Gy each): 9/15/10, 9/17/10, 9/20/10 & 9/22/10. No pre-CK PSA baseline taken in Sep 2010. Post CK: PSA 12.30! (12/3/10) and 9.48 (12/15/10).

    RO thinks the PSA results are due to prostatitis cased by the CK treatment (similar to what happened after the biopsy) and is not worried since the followup test on 12/15/10 went down (not up).

    Worrisome & disconcerting to me nonetheless. Had lengthy discussion w/RO about how do we know if CK failed or not and what do we do if it did fail? All hypothetical and nothing can be determined or done until we get a consistent trend in PSA results.

    Physiologically, no ED (and still have pre/post ejaculate fluid but w/reduced volume), no rectal problems and still have some urinary frequency/urgency issues but nothing causing any major concern or problems.

    Next PSA due in March. Will have wait to see where the PSA is then. Oh well . . .

    Best wishes Kongo
    Best wishes on your announcement. Surely the results are meaningful and deserve a celebration. Do not be surprised if your nadir takes longer than 18 months to settle or if you see a “bounce” before that. They are all positive signs for celebrations.
    I will raise a glass of champagne for you.
    Happy 2011
    VGama
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166

    Best wishes Kongo
    Best wishes on your announcement. Surely the results are meaningful and deserve a celebration. Do not be surprised if your nadir takes longer than 18 months to settle or if you see a “bounce” before that. They are all positive signs for celebrations.
    I will raise a glass of champagne for you.
    Happy 2011
    VGama

    Swing and Vasco
    Hey, Swing. Thanks for the support. I understand your concern but would tend to agree with your radiologist that prostatitis is the likely cause of your unusual PSA reading post treatment, particularly with the big drop after the 12+ score. I wonder if they are prescribing any antibiotics?

    Vasco, I appreciate the encouragement. With CK, nadirs typically are reached at about 18 months (give or take a few) because the BED is about 95 gray which tends to knock it down faster, although you are correct that it can sometimes take longer. Everyone is different. Bounce effects are relatively uncommon with CK but they do sometimes occur as much as two years after this treatment. And I have a nice bottle of Dom Perignon chilling for New Year's eve to celebrate.

    CORRECTION: In an earlier post on this thread I mistakenly typed that a nadir was <0.1 ng/ml. I was off by a factor of ten. With CK, they look for a nadir less than 1.0 ng/ml.
  • silverfox1
    silverfox1 Member Posts: 36
    Kongo said:

    Swing and Vasco
    Hey, Swing. Thanks for the support. I understand your concern but would tend to agree with your radiologist that prostatitis is the likely cause of your unusual PSA reading post treatment, particularly with the big drop after the 12+ score. I wonder if they are prescribing any antibiotics?

    Vasco, I appreciate the encouragement. With CK, nadirs typically are reached at about 18 months (give or take a few) because the BED is about 95 gray which tends to knock it down faster, although you are correct that it can sometimes take longer. Everyone is different. Bounce effects are relatively uncommon with CK but they do sometimes occur as much as two years after this treatment. And I have a nice bottle of Dom Perignon chilling for New Year's eve to celebrate.

    CORRECTION: In an earlier post on this thread I mistakenly typed that a nadir was <0.1 ng/ml. I was off by a factor of ten. With CK, they look for a nadir less than 1.0 ng/ml.</p>

    Kongo, Swing and Vasco
    Want to thank all of you for sharing such good information! I have pretty much decided on CK and will meet with the RO on Monday January 3rd to ensure that my decision is the correct one for my scores etc.. I look daily for your post and comments and enjoy the successes that you are experiencing. Glad to hear all is going well! Happy New year to all!
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166

    Kongo, Swing and Vasco
    Want to thank all of you for sharing such good information! I have pretty much decided on CK and will meet with the RO on Monday January 3rd to ensure that my decision is the correct one for my scores etc.. I look daily for your post and comments and enjoy the successes that you are experiencing. Glad to hear all is going well! Happy New year to all!

    Good Luck
    Silver fox,

    I hope your final decision process next week goes smoothly. One thing to discuss with your team is the type of protocol to choose. After reading about a Stanford study I insisted on having my fractional treatment every other day instead of consecutively. This gives the radiated tissues a bit of time to recover between treatments and I am convinced it played a large factor in my lack of adverse side effects. If you would like to discuss anything about this from a patient perspective, feel free to send me an email through this website and we can arrange a time to chat offline. Again, best of luck as you go forward. It's a big decision.
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166

    Kongo, Swing and Vasco
    Want to thank all of you for sharing such good information! I have pretty much decided on CK and will meet with the RO on Monday January 3rd to ensure that my decision is the correct one for my scores etc.. I look daily for your post and comments and enjoy the successes that you are experiencing. Glad to hear all is going well! Happy New year to all!

    Good Luck
    Silver fox,

    I hope your final decision process next week goes smoothly. One thing to discuss with your team is the type of protocol to choose. After reading about a Stanford study I insisted on having my fractional treatment every other day instead of consecutively. This gives the radiated tissues a bit of time to recover between treatments and I am convinced it played a large factor in my lack of adverse side effects. If you would like to discuss anything about this from a patient perspective, feel free to send me an email through this website and we can arrange a time to chat offline. Again, best of luck as you go forward. It's a big decision.
  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,013
    Kongo said:

    Swing and Vasco
    Hey, Swing. Thanks for the support. I understand your concern but would tend to agree with your radiologist that prostatitis is the likely cause of your unusual PSA reading post treatment, particularly with the big drop after the 12+ score. I wonder if they are prescribing any antibiotics?

    Vasco, I appreciate the encouragement. With CK, nadirs typically are reached at about 18 months (give or take a few) because the BED is about 95 gray which tends to knock it down faster, although you are correct that it can sometimes take longer. Everyone is different. Bounce effects are relatively uncommon with CK but they do sometimes occur as much as two years after this treatment. And I have a nice bottle of Dom Perignon chilling for New Year's eve to celebrate.

    CORRECTION: In an earlier post on this thread I mistakenly typed that a nadir was <0.1 ng/ml. I was off by a factor of ten. With CK, they look for a nadir less than 1.0 ng/ml.</p>

    Prostatitis
    FYI, Kongo, no antibiotics indicated, since I show no symptoms of a bacterial infection of the prostate of any kind. Will keep you (and everyone else) posted when there's something to report.
  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,013

    Kongo, Swing and Vasco
    Want to thank all of you for sharing such good information! I have pretty much decided on CK and will meet with the RO on Monday January 3rd to ensure that my decision is the correct one for my scores etc.. I look daily for your post and comments and enjoy the successes that you are experiencing. Glad to hear all is going well! Happy New year to all!

    Wishing You A Happy New Year, Too!
    You're welcome, Silverfox.

    Despite the inconclusive post-CK PSA results I've received so far, I still highly recommend the technique, which historical reports (including Kongo's) indicate that it is still currently the best method for treating PCa for men w/early stage and low grade PCa in terms of killing the cancer and maximizing quality of life by minimizing side effects.

    Hopefully, you'll determine CK is suitable in your case but, if not, I wish you the best in choosing the treatment that is most suitable for you.

    Good luck & best wishes for a Happy New Year!
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,431 **

    Wishing You A Happy New Year, Too!
    You're welcome, Silverfox.

    Despite the inconclusive post-CK PSA results I've received so far, I still highly recommend the technique, which historical reports (including Kongo's) indicate that it is still currently the best method for treating PCa for men w/early stage and low grade PCa in terms of killing the cancer and maximizing quality of life by minimizing side effects.

    Hopefully, you'll determine CK is suitable in your case but, if not, I wish you the best in choosing the treatment that is most suitable for you.

    Good luck & best wishes for a Happy New Year!

    Silver, Belive in yourself
    Silver,
    I am confident that you will decide on the best treatment suitable to your case. You did a detailed research, checked the pros and cons, and there is no margin for error. Believe in yourself. No one could judge you case better then you.
    I hope that next week you have peace of mind with yourself.

    Happy New Year
    VGama
  • SRVR
    SRVR Member Posts: 11

    Prostatitis
    FYI, Kongo, no antibiotics indicated, since I show no symptoms of a bacterial infection of the prostate of any kind. Will keep you (and everyone else) posted when there's something to report.

    Prostatitis
    The urgency and frequency issues may be a symptom of minor chronic prostatits. Check out this info from the Mayo Clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prostatitis/DS00341/DSECTION=symptoms
  • ob66
    ob66 Member Posts: 227
    Congrats on your numbers Kongo
    When I first read the post I flinched a bit for you, forgetting the progress desired in Cyberknife Tx. Things look like they are proceeding as one would want. Happy for your new year's good news. And thanks again for your support to so many people on the forum. Happy New Year.
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166
    ob66 said:

    Congrats on your numbers Kongo
    When I first read the post I flinched a bit for you, forgetting the progress desired in Cyberknife Tx. Things look like they are proceeding as one would want. Happy for your new year's good news. And thanks again for your support to so many people on the forum. Happy New Year.

    Thanks, Bob
    I am delighted with my six month results. From studies I have read, about 80% of patients undergoing CK reach a 0.4 ng/ml PSA level at 12 months with a continuing gradual drop in PSA up to three years following treatment. At my rate of decline I am ahead of the curve. I appreciate your kind words and extend my best wishes for you and your family for a safe, healthy, and prosperous new year as well.
  • lewvino
    lewvino Member Posts: 1,010
    Dropping like the ball on
    Dropping like the ball on New Years eve! Congrats to you.

    Larry
  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,013
    SRVR said:

    Prostatitis
    The urgency and frequency issues may be a symptom of minor chronic prostatits. Check out this info from the Mayo Clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prostatitis/DS00341/DSECTION=symptoms

    Thanks, but . . .
    Thanks, but . . . .





    my urinary urgency/frequency issues predate my biopsy and CK treatments, when prostatitis was first indicated by erratic PSA test results.
  • MCinNC
    MCinNC Member Posts: 40
    6 month PSA
    Hey Kongo. Hadn't checked in since your post and just noticed it. Really great news! Hope you're doing well and that the good trend continues through 2011 and beyond. Declining PSAs and no side effects... hard to complain about that treatment choice, huh?
  • silverfox1
    silverfox1 Member Posts: 36
    Kongo said:

    Good Luck
    Silver fox,

    I hope your final decision process next week goes smoothly. One thing to discuss with your team is the type of protocol to choose. After reading about a Stanford study I insisted on having my fractional treatment every other day instead of consecutively. This gives the radiated tissues a bit of time to recover between treatments and I am convinced it played a large factor in my lack of adverse side effects. If you would like to discuss anything about this from a patient perspective, feel free to send me an email through this website and we can arrange a time to chat offline. Again, best of luck as you go forward. It's a big decision.

    Kongo
    Yes, I would like very much to chat with you. My email address is [email protected]

    I do want to share my experience so far so that others may take advantage of it as well. I met with the RO and he agreed that CK was an excellent option treatment for me. I also met with a second Urologist and he agreed that either surgery or the CK were suitable for my treatment. However,I was concerned about some of the numbers. They both indicated that there was a 35% chance that the cancer had penetrated the prostate capsule and a 3.6% chance that it may be beyond the capsule. The RO indicated that he would treat a wider area to compensate for the 3.6% odds. The Uro indicated that he would probably have to cut a wider area. So based on all the above, I will be making an appointment with the RO for the CK treatment as it has the same cure rate as the surgery as indicated by the RO. Kongo, I did discuss the every other day with the RO and he agreed that it would be a good way to go! So thank you for that bit of information. NOTE: the numbers that were quoted to me came from the matrix developed by Sloan Ketering group so I feel somewhat confident that they are as accurate as any number can be at this point and time.
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166

    Kongo
    Yes, I would like very much to chat with you. My email address is [email protected]

    I do want to share my experience so far so that others may take advantage of it as well. I met with the RO and he agreed that CK was an excellent option treatment for me. I also met with a second Urologist and he agreed that either surgery or the CK were suitable for my treatment. However,I was concerned about some of the numbers. They both indicated that there was a 35% chance that the cancer had penetrated the prostate capsule and a 3.6% chance that it may be beyond the capsule. The RO indicated that he would treat a wider area to compensate for the 3.6% odds. The Uro indicated that he would probably have to cut a wider area. So based on all the above, I will be making an appointment with the RO for the CK treatment as it has the same cure rate as the surgery as indicated by the RO. Kongo, I did discuss the every other day with the RO and he agreed that it would be a good way to go! So thank you for that bit of information. NOTE: the numbers that were quoted to me came from the matrix developed by Sloan Ketering group so I feel somewhat confident that they are as accurate as any number can be at this point and time.

    Email
    Sent you an email. Check your att account.