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Protasol Quercetin

daytona19
Posts: 54
Joined: Sep 2014

Has anyone tried protasol quercetin? It is a herbal tablet that is suppose to lower testerone. My PSA is going up and my Doctor wants me to try it. He said some of his patients has had some sucess with it?

daytona19

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 3206
Joined: Nov 2010

In 2001 I discussed with one oncologist at JH, Singapore about the then famous PC-SPES. The supplement had good reputation at the time to lower the PSA, leading people to thinking that it was a new way for treating PCa. However, from some researches done on the drug, it was found that it contains traditional substances from medicines used in typical hormonal therapies. The PC-SPES was ruled as fake so the “owners” seem to have changed the name of the supplement. You may find answers to your query here;

http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,22972,0.htm

Here is a link on the PC-SPES; http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/pc-spes/Patient/page1

I wonder if the traditional drugs have no effect in your case. What is your reason to try supplements instead of following typical therapies?

Best wishes and luck in the control of the progression.

VGama

daytona19
Posts: 54
Joined: Sep 2014

Hi VG

Thanks for the info it was interesting. my Dr. is interesting I am never sure what he thinks. I think he thinks that my PSA even though it more than doubled from .54 to 1.52 in 3 months that i should not worry. I still want to try Xtandi if it doubles again but it is very expensive. I think the donut hole in Medicare will help some.I am going to another Dr. for his advice I figure that trying Protasol for 3 months can't hurt.I am taking Finasteride and bicalutamide for 2 years and it went down to .10 and now it is going the other way.

 

Thank you for your help as always.

daytona19

 

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 3206
Joined: Nov 2010

Daytona19

If you recall our last years’ exchanged posts, I had suggested you to discuss with your doctor about moving up and start taking an agonist like Eligard or Lupron. Not just a simple supplement.

Your thread; http://csn.cancer.org/node/287947

I think that Xtandi should come up at the timing that the traditional HT drugs shows failure. In fact your constant increasing PSA is indicative that an antiandrogen (Bicalutamide) is not enough or effective. More else, in 2005 RP they indicated a non aggressive type of cancer (Gleason score 6) that is now (after the RT of 2009) very active,. The PSADT (doubling time) proves the above facts.

Either you increase the blockade with an agonist now for efficiency (to which extent I doubt protasol quercetin being the right response) or just let the PSA increase (maybe even stopping taking all drugs) to let it reach such a level with the intent of getting a positive C11 PET/CT exam.
If PSA still increases under the agonist effect, then you should stop taking the bicalutamide.

You are looking for your next step in the treatment and I believe that you should try to locate the metastases to verify for possibilities in a continuous RT programme or just continue control with the sequential hormonal therapy.

We have different cases and we shouldn’t be compared, but let me inform you that I am also a Gs6 with RP and RT failure. My doctor diagnosed me systemic and recommended I started HT, which I did successfully since 2010, on an intermittent approach (on/off drugs periods). I am now in the off-drugs period waiting for the PSA to increase above 2.5 ng/ml, to restart HT.
My future will be to continue the sequential treatment with HT control until it fails. But, for guys in our situation with low aggressive metastasized type of cancers, there is still a possibility in cure if we have oligometastases (fewer numbers of localized favourable metastases) that may be successfully radiated for good. These spots may be located with the C11 PET/CT exam. While off drugs I live a frightening period because I know that cancer is progressing but at least I am committed for giving it a chance at cure, if cancer is favourably detected.

I wonder why your doctor is suggesting you supplements instead of continuing treatment with ways known to work. Did he given up or suggest you that you are systemic with no other alternative? Has he implied that you will die with the cancer or of the cancer?

You should get a second opinion from another medical oncologist.

Here you got reading materials on the above;

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2407/14/671
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23276369
http://advancedprostatecancer.net/?p=3489
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/pm/2013/438236/

It seems that the best level in PSA for a proper C11 PET/CT exam is PSA>4.

Best wishes,

VGama

daytona19
Posts: 54
Joined: Sep 2014

 Hi VG,

I am going back to my onocologist's on April 21 and if my PSA goes up, and it probably will, he wants me to go on Lupron. Not sure why he wants me to try protasol but he is probably using me to see what will happen.I talked to him about C11 PET/CT and he said Moffitt will have it soon. I had two other scans a bone scan and a MRI and nither showed anything. I know the scans can show some negative positives but at least it didn't show anything.I will get the C11PET/CT after the April 21 appointment if it goes up even if i have to go to another hospital.

I think he thinks I will die with cancer not have it but I am worried. I would love to be cured as I have several friends that are. RT doesn't bother me I had no side effects when i had it done in 2009.

 Why should I try Lupron before I try Xtandi?  I heard that Lupron has some bad side effects?

Thank you for your excellent advice as always. It helps to be able to talk to someone who understands what I am going thru.

daytona19

 

VascodaGama's picture
VascodaGama
Posts: 3206
Joined: Nov 2010

Daytona19

Please note that I am not a doctor but a PCa survivor like you. Because of the similarities of our cases (Gs6, failed RP and RT, same age and physically active-golfing, etc) I thought my inputs drawn from my experiences and researches would be good in your considerations and decisions. Surely I will respect your preferences even if they do not match my opinions.
An important aspect in our treatments is the confidence we put in our caring physicians. However, I have noticed that they see us as one of their hundreds patients so that we may expect them to treat us equally as members of the same cohort. I think it important therefore that we know the “basics” so that we can understand their choices and follow the steps in the treatment. This gives us confidence and the power to discuss details with them, not as simple “observers” but as partners in the same subject.

In regards to your last comments, I would like to inform you that the C11 PET/CT exam should only be done when the timing is right, which means that the PSA should be higher (better above 4.0 ng/ml), and the body should be “clean” from supplements, vitamins and medications prejudicial to C11. I am not familiar with the compounds in Protasol so that I am not sure if it would “work” as much as PC-SPES did (it included estrogens substances). However, if it manages to interfere with prostatic cells activity just as Lupron does; surely taking these drugs will influence the efficacy of a C11 PET/CT exam; therefore the exam should be postponed.

In fact, your oncologist seems to be trying to control the bandit with hormonal manipulations, in a sequential manner. There is no bad meaning in pursuing such, but you should know details of his/her protocol in a coordinating form, with defined timings. If the protocol does not include fixed thresholds to trigger actions then you will never have a chance to look for oligometastatic cancer.

The 18F-Sodium Fluoride (NaF) PET and MRI was excellent but it may have been better if you have done it when the unmasked PSA (clean from the influence of the drugs) got to higher levels close to 4, which could have occurred in March 2015 (judging from the PSADT, and also if one takes into consideration of the effect of Finasteride known to lower the PSA level). Again, it all falls in what we really believe and trust.

Regarding Xtandi, this is another antiandrogen that works as a receptor inhibitor. It is more refined than the Bicalutamide so that it “attaches” better to the cells AR (androgen receptors). They work more efficiently than the Bicalutamide but they fail similarly at AR’s mutations. When the PSA increases steadily in antiandrogen patients, therefore showing failure of the therapy, it is typical of oncologists to increase the daily dose (50 mg to 150 mg) or changing the antiandrogen by another one of similar function. The side effects of Xtandi are also more “sophisticated” that the traditional bicalutamide, and will require extra attention.

With Xtandi, your present treatment protocol does not change. However, if you include the hormonal blockade provided by an LHRH agonist (Lupron, Eligard, etc) the response of the treatment will be better. You will have must less testosterone circulating in your body feeding the cancer. Antiandrogens therapies seem more efficient if used in combination with agonist because they have less testosterone to deal with. Typically the hormonal blockade starts with an agonist that is added with a second blockade done with an antiandrogen and a third blockade done with a 5-Alpha Reductase Inhibitor (5-ARI) like the Finasteride.
You could well start Lupron while continuing with the Bicalutamide to certify the treatment effectiveness, before moving up to the combi Lupron + Xtandi.

Lupron symptoms are those similar to woman menopause because of the hypogonadism status. Some guys are more sensitive to its effects. In my case, I did HT with mono blockade with Eligard (leuprolide) alone that worked very well in my case. I had numerous symptoms but mild. I also used tactics to avoid the tricky ones. Fatigue and loss of libido were the worse. The “goody” of the therapy is that after 4 months of stopping the drug’s effects, my system returned to normalcy with increased testosterone levels. My libido is back and so it is my strengths. The cancer is also enjoying and having a “good life” with the testosterone. I will “punch” it down again with the Eligard after the C11 PET/CT exam.

Here is a link discussing about Lupron; http://csn.cancer.org/node/183461

 

 Regards,

VGama

 

daytona19
Posts: 54
Joined: Sep 2014

Hi VG

I read all the posts about Lupron. very informative and a little scary. I hope when I go on it that my side effects are like yours.

Your suggestion that the doctor gives me a plan about what he thinks my next steps will be is good. he sort of did by saying if the PSA goes up we will do more testing. I think he is still trying to decde how aggressive my cancer is. I never thought about taking bicalutamide along with Lupron. i did ask him if i should increase the amount of bicalutamide I am taking and he seems to think that would not help that much and my side effects would increase ( chest pain and some incontinence ).

Thank you for the information about the C11PET/CT. i didn't know you had to clean your system of all vitamin, supplements  and drugs before the scan and the PSA needed to be higher than 4. Even before my surgery it never that high ( 3.7 )

I keep hoping that they will come up with a vaccine that will kill the bandit 

Thank you for your help and concern. emailing you has helped with my attitude in dealing with the bandit.

Unless you have cancer, like we do, it is hard for others to know what we are thinking. I am lucky to have family and friends who care for me and make life worth living.

Thank you again.

daytona19 

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