DCA

janie1
janie1 Member Posts: 753
I "paid" a visit to a naturopath doctor yesterday. He said he went to a conference last weekend. Supposely there were very good results with a clinical trial in Toronto, using DCA. DCA has been talked about before. It's one of those things that a pharmaceutical company won't invest in....no money to be made.
DCA has dropped off the radar before. Now it's back on the radar screen.

Anyway, the naturopath was excited about it. I asked how and when it could be available, could it be years. He said he was going to be working on it.
He seemed to be hopeful about it for the not too distant future.

I think this is the trial Smokeyjoe mentioned before. She may have just mentioned it to me, because it was in the trial phase (Toronto), and I had asked if she knew anything about it.

Fucc....you could probably find out more, too.

I've been busy and haven't been able to look into things as much as I want to.

Just wanted to pass this along........we have to STAY WITH IT.

I appreciate all the sharing and determination here.
«1

Comments

  • manwithnoname
    manwithnoname Member Posts: 402
    Hi Joan

     we started DCA, I had another look at the GBM trial and found the supplemental pages, these pretty much convinced me, also our Prof. does use it in some cases. He is handling it really well, dosage is 6.25mg/kg as per trial,  according to the Canadian clinic kids can take higher doses but it does seem to take 3 months to reach theraputic serum levels.

    This stuff did regress INCURABLE highly aggressive brain tumors after all else failed and with MINIMUM toxicity, can't be ignored IMHO

     

  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    its good to have supervision

    janie,

    I saw a paper that dca synergies with metformin.

    been on dca for a few months, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

    its was my doctors at hallwag that recommended it.

    while at hallwang doing it iv, while at home doing it oral.

    one word of warning was that one of the doctors , patients died the day after starting dca, won't say where, but that doctor is nervous about dca.

    like all these therapies there are risks, that said, i think dca research worth it.

    tony, could you post the links, you always find the best research.

    hugs,

    pete

  • manwithnoname
    manwithnoname Member Posts: 402

    its good to have supervision

    janie,

    I saw a paper that dca synergies with metformin.

    been on dca for a few months, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

    its was my doctors at hallwag that recommended it.

    while at hallwang doing it iv, while at home doing it oral.

    one word of warning was that one of the doctors , patients died the day after starting dca, won't say where, but that doctor is nervous about dca.

    like all these therapies there are risks, that said, i think dca research worth it.

    tony, could you post the links, you always find the best research.

    hugs,

    pete

    I agree

    supervision if possible.

    Some quotes from the Pubmed literature;

    "Our results demonstrated that DCA inhibited the viability of CRC cells and had synergistic antiproliferation in combination with 5-FU. Moreover, compared with 5-FU alone, the apoptosis of CRC cells treated with DCA and 5-FU was enhanced and demonstrated with the changes of Bcl-2, Bax, and caspase-3 proteins. Our results suggest that DCA has a synergistic antitumor effect with 5-FU on CRC cell lines in vitro."

     "DCA acts not only on tumor cells to suppress glycolysis, but also on immune cells to improve the immune status modulated by lactic acid and to increase the effectiveness of anti-tumor immunotherapy"

    "In this case report of a man with documented relapse after state-of-the-art chemotherapy for non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a significant response to dichloroacetate is documented with a complete remission, which remains ongoing after 4 years. Dichloroacetate appears to be a novel therapy warranting further investigation in the treatment of cancer."

    "DCA disturbs PDK-1, -2, and -4 (Sun et al., 2010) and may restore a normal mitochondrial activity resulting in normal cell function or switching on apoptosis of too aberrant cells "

     "we show that (i) DCA exhibits an unexpected anticancer effect on NB tumor cells and (ii) this effect is selectively directed to very malignant NB cells"

    NB= Neuroblastoma

     

    This has not been in a double blind randomized etc etc...Money Mouth and never will be...

  • luvinlife2
    luvinlife2 Member Posts: 172
    DCA

    Janie the place in Toronto that's been using it  is called Medicor.  Their research isn't actually the kind of clinical trials done in research centres, it's more their own case studies.  Here's the link.

    http://www.medicorcancer.com/dca-therapy.html

    The actual clinical trials are being conducted in Alberta by a Dr. Evangelos Michelakis.  I'll post a couple of links for you but if you good his name you'll get a lot of pages.  I was told that Phase 3 trials started last fall but don't know much more other than it's testing the appropriate dosing and delivery (oral and iv).  The number of cancers they are testing is limited, just a few of the more common cancers with the main focus on brain cancers.  According to their trials, the DCA is most effective on brain tumors.

    http://www.chrcrm.org/en/rotm/dr-evangelos-michelakis

    http://www.medicine.med.ualberta.ca/en/Research.aspx

    My regular oncologist suggested I start oral DCA about 1.5 years ago because the preliminary results of the Phase 2 clinical trial were very promising.  At that time I got my DCA from my nat onc.  Now though, it is available with a prescription from any pharmacy in Canada.  The best prices are from compound pharmacies but it is really important to go through a Dr. who is very knowledgeable about DCA and can recommend a reputable source.  Don't buy off the internet and self medicate!!  This is a drug that can cause serious problems and deadly interactions with other drugs so one needs to be under the care of a knowledgeable Dr.

    My nat onc and Medicor share studies and information regarding DCA as well as receiving info from the researchers in Alberta.  Over the past 1.5 years that I've been on and off DCA the dosing and protocols have been tweeked as they find how this drug works best on different cancers.  I've done both oral and iv DCA.  I'm currently on oral DCA at 1500mg/day for 5 days then 2 days off.  The researchers and Dr.'s  have decided that oral DCA is as effective as iv DCA and cheaper.  Tip...if your DCA pills stick together and stink like dirty socks...it's not been made properly and won't be as effective if at all.  The capsules should have no smell and be loose like any other capsule you'd buy.  Also, it should be kept in a dark cupboard.  Mine are actually put in a dark blue container by my pharmacist.

    One more link I should share that I came across and will be asking my nat onc tomorrow about this article:

    http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/conditions/unapproved-cancer-therapy-dca-makes-some-tumours-worse/article572621/?service=mobile

    It's about a study done in Ontario that showed DCA doesn't work on colon cancer and could actually make things worse for patients.  It was on mice but it's something to be aware of.  I know that my nat onc is very up on all the DCA information so I wouldn't be on it if that was the case...there must be something more to this and I will find out.  DCA in combination with a few other therapies has given 3 stage 4 colon cancer patients in my clinic clear CT scans. 

    Yes, we have to say with it!!  Smile  But folks I can't stress this enough...DON'T SELF MEDICATE WITH DCA!

    PS.  I also take DCA with metformin.

  • manwithnoname
    manwithnoname Member Posts: 402

    DCA

    Janie the place in Toronto that's been using it  is called Medicor.  Their research isn't actually the kind of clinical trials done in research centres, it's more their own case studies.  Here's the link.

    http://www.medicorcancer.com/dca-therapy.html

    The actual clinical trials are being conducted in Alberta by a Dr. Evangelos Michelakis.  I'll post a couple of links for you but if you good his name you'll get a lot of pages.  I was told that Phase 3 trials started last fall but don't know much more other than it's testing the appropriate dosing and delivery (oral and iv).  The number of cancers they are testing is limited, just a few of the more common cancers with the main focus on brain cancers.  According to their trials, the DCA is most effective on brain tumors.

    http://www.chrcrm.org/en/rotm/dr-evangelos-michelakis

    http://www.medicine.med.ualberta.ca/en/Research.aspx

    My regular oncologist suggested I start oral DCA about 1.5 years ago because the preliminary results of the Phase 2 clinical trial were very promising.  At that time I got my DCA from my nat onc.  Now though, it is available with a prescription from any pharmacy in Canada.  The best prices are from compound pharmacies but it is really important to go through a Dr. who is very knowledgeable about DCA and can recommend a reputable source.  Don't buy off the internet and self medicate!!  This is a drug that can cause serious problems and deadly interactions with other drugs so one needs to be under the care of a knowledgeable Dr.

    My nat onc and Medicor share studies and information regarding DCA as well as receiving info from the researchers in Alberta.  Over the past 1.5 years that I've been on and off DCA the dosing and protocols have been tweeked as they find how this drug works best on different cancers.  I've done both oral and iv DCA.  I'm currently on oral DCA at 1500mg/day for 5 days then 2 days off.  The researchers and Dr.'s  have decided that oral DCA is as effective as iv DCA and cheaper.  Tip...if your DCA pills stick together and stink like dirty socks...it's not been made properly and won't be as effective if at all.  The capsules should have no smell and be loose like any other capsule you'd buy.  Also, it should be kept in a dark cupboard.  Mine are actually put in a dark blue container by my pharmacist.

    One more link I should share that I came across and will be asking my nat onc tomorrow about this article:

    http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/conditions/unapproved-cancer-therapy-dca-makes-some-tumours-worse/article572621/?service=mobile

    It's about a study done in Ontario that showed DCA doesn't work on colon cancer and could actually make things worse for patients.  It was on mice but it's something to be aware of.  I know that my nat onc is very up on all the DCA information so I wouldn't be on it if that was the case...there must be something more to this and I will find out.  DCA in combination with a few other therapies has given 3 stage 4 colon cancer patients in my clinic clear CT scans. 

    Yes, we have to say with it!!  Smile  But folks I can't stress this enough...DON'T SELF MEDICATE WITH DCA!

    PS.  I also take DCA with metformin.

    Great info.

    1500mg is a big amount, any side affects? I did send Pete a link that DCA cancels out Metformin, will try and find it again.

  • luvinlife2
    luvinlife2 Member Posts: 172

    Great info.

    1500mg is a big amount, any side affects? I did send Pete a link that DCA cancels out Metformin, will try and find it again.

    Not at 1500

    At 2000mg/day I was starting to get a bit of neuropathy in the feet and tingling in the fingertips so we lowered to 1500/day.  It wasn't bad at all but my Dr. said it would only get worse until I stopped and that going down to 1500 would still be effective.  I am on a very low dose of metformin.  Does the dosage make a difference?  I'm interested in that article so if you can find it I would really appreciate it.  I'm going to my appointment loaded with articles and questions..lol.  My poor Dr....but he always welcomes the questions and gives me the science with his answers.  I just can't remember everything so I'll have to record our session.  My chemo brain forgets so much these days.

  • manwithnoname
    manwithnoname Member Posts: 402

    Not at 1500

    At 2000mg/day I was starting to get a bit of neuropathy in the feet and tingling in the fingertips so we lowered to 1500/day.  It wasn't bad at all but my Dr. said it would only get worse until I stopped and that going down to 1500 would still be effective.  I am on a very low dose of metformin.  Does the dosage make a difference?  I'm interested in that article so if you can find it I would really appreciate it.  I'm going to my appointment loaded with articles and questions..lol.  My poor Dr....but he always welcomes the questions and gives me the science with his answers.  I just can't remember everything so I'll have to record our session.  My chemo brain forgets so much these days.

    Here you go

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3326716/

    But this was in mice so not 100% relevant, would like to here your docs opinion.

    Recording is a must, I do the same (when I can remember)

    p.s I have read many people using DCA talking about adding Metformin, on paper it sounds reasonable.

  • luvinlife2
    luvinlife2 Member Posts: 172

    Here you go

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3326716/

    But this was in mice so not 100% relevant, would like to here your docs opinion.

    Recording is a must, I do the same (when I can remember)

    p.s I have read many people using DCA talking about adding Metformin, on paper it sounds reasonable.

    Thank You !!

    Yes, I'll post what he says about this. Thanks again Smile

  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    this seemed good enough for me, my standards of proof so low,

    my willingness to take risks so high. its amazing i am still here.

    http://www.cancerevolution.info/index.php?/cancer-therapy/Cell-energy-limitation-therapy/can-metformin-boost-dca.html

    this was the dca boost metformim link, i am checking out the cited studies as the anti stem cell stuff is on my research list.

    re I appreciate all the sharing and determination here.

    its ok to say love.

    hugs,

    pete

    ps we might just find the cure ourselves, what a nice dream. please don't try these therapies without medical supervision, these therapies are a little more dangerous than vegan diets and juicing.

    BUT NOT AS DANGEROUS AS CRC

     pps http://www.landesbioscience.com/journals/cc/06-Martin-CastilloCC9-6.pdf just look at the sexy picture, if you can read the juicy bits.

    do yourself a favour and join the colorectal guinea pigs association, membership is free. only joking of course see your doctor, he might just be on metformin.

  • janie1
    janie1 Member Posts: 753

    this seemed good enough for me, my standards of proof so low,

    my willingness to take risks so high. its amazing i am still here.

    http://www.cancerevolution.info/index.php?/cancer-therapy/Cell-energy-limitation-therapy/can-metformin-boost-dca.html

    this was the dca boost metformim link, i am checking out the cited studies as the anti stem cell stuff is on my research list.

    re I appreciate all the sharing and determination here.

    its ok to say love.

    hugs,

    pete

    ps we might just find the cure ourselves, what a nice dream. please don't try these therapies without medical supervision, these therapies are a little more dangerous than vegan diets and juicing.

    BUT NOT AS DANGEROUS AS CRC

     pps http://www.landesbioscience.com/journals/cc/06-Martin-CastilloCC9-6.pdf just look at the sexy picture, if you can read the juicy bits.

    do yourself a favour and join the colorectal guinea pigs association, membership is free. only joking of course see your doctor, he might just be on metformin.

    Thanks for all the
    Thanks for all the comments.
    Here, I thought I had some ground-breaking news, but since I am in the U.S., we are definitely "behind". Wonder why.....hmmm.

    Since my new naturopath is starting to use DCA.....i think I will run this by him.

    Luvinlife - that's encouraging that some Stage 4's have had clear scans at your naturopathic clinic.
    Even better, would be if YOU can have a clear scan. You sure do a lot, but you seem to be doing really well. I'd be ok with that for now. Keep sharing, please.
  • luvinlife2
    luvinlife2 Member Posts: 172
    janie1 said:

    Thanks for all the
    Thanks for all the comments.
    Here, I thought I had some ground-breaking news, but since I am in the U.S., we are definitely "behind". Wonder why.....hmmm.

    Since my new naturopath is starting to use DCA.....i think I will run this by him.

    Luvinlife - that's encouraging that some Stage 4's have had clear scans at your naturopathic clinic.
    Even better, would be if YOU can have a clear scan. You sure do a lot, but you seem to be doing really well. I'd be ok with that for now. Keep sharing, please.

    Thanks janie :)

    I hope you can have a clear scan too Smile   I've not had one since I was diagnosed.  Since I posted, 2 more stage 4's have had clear scans.  One melanoma and one breast cancer.  So far my cea is dropping quite a bit but I'm only halfway there.  A clear scan would be the ultimate present but I don't hold my breath for it anymore.  If most of my tumors disappear or become smaller I'll still be grateful!  Anything is better than progression!

    Re the study about DCA and colon cancer that I posted.  My nat onc knows about the study and said that DCA does not work the same way in humans as it does in mice.  He rejects the study because the patients in his clinic who have had the most dramatic results with DCA are colon cancer and breast cancer patients.  He also said that the experiences he and the Dr.'s at Medicor have had with metformin and DCA were better than just DCA alone and again DCA works differently in humans than mice.

    If you get your DCA through your naturopath Dr. you should be good to go.  It's these websites on the internet that sell it you have to be really careful of.  My Dr. told me that reputable Dr.'s in the US get it from reputable sources they have connections with.

    Anyone looking for a board certified naturopath Dr. can check here  http://www.oncanp.org/index.html.  They only list Dr.'s who have been approved by the board.  My Dr. is one of the directors.  He's board certified in the US and Canada.

  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900

    Thanks janie :)

    I hope you can have a clear scan too Smile   I've not had one since I was diagnosed.  Since I posted, 2 more stage 4's have had clear scans.  One melanoma and one breast cancer.  So far my cea is dropping quite a bit but I'm only halfway there.  A clear scan would be the ultimate present but I don't hold my breath for it anymore.  If most of my tumors disappear or become smaller I'll still be grateful!  Anything is better than progression!

    Re the study about DCA and colon cancer that I posted.  My nat onc knows about the study and said that DCA does not work the same way in humans as it does in mice.  He rejects the study because the patients in his clinic who have had the most dramatic results with DCA are colon cancer and breast cancer patients.  He also said that the experiences he and the Dr.'s at Medicor have had with metformin and DCA were better than just DCA alone and again DCA works differently in humans than mice.

    If you get your DCA through your naturopath Dr. you should be good to go.  It's these websites on the internet that sell it you have to be really careful of.  My Dr. told me that reputable Dr.'s in the US get it from reputable sources they have connections with.

    Anyone looking for a board certified naturopath Dr. can check here  http://www.oncanp.org/index.html.  They only list Dr.'s who have been approved by the board.  My Dr. is one of the directors.  He's board certified in the US and Canada.

    i get my oral dca from sabina at hallwang clinic

    you could try emailing them and saying you are a friend of pete's, they only supply patients that i know off, but the parent company is one of the biggest pharmicies in germany. its the best way to get a good source, luvinlif2 idea about board certified nd's also a good way to go. the euro products however i have a more secure feeling with.

    for a range of essential off label and unusual supplements like pme etc etc you need world clss compounding pharmacies.

    hugs,

    pete

    ps i am just sharing where i get most of my supplements now, sabina the lovely chemist here at the clinic will likely kill me if she gets more than a couple of requests, but if you cannot find a good source locally, you can email her. contact details on my blog euro clinics pages. 

  • luvinlife2
    luvinlife2 Member Posts: 172

    i get my oral dca from sabina at hallwang clinic

    you could try emailing them and saying you are a friend of pete's, they only supply patients that i know off, but the parent company is one of the biggest pharmicies in germany. its the best way to get a good source, luvinlif2 idea about board certified nd's also a good way to go. the euro products however i have a more secure feeling with.

    for a range of essential off label and unusual supplements like pme etc etc you need world clss compounding pharmacies.

    hugs,

    pete

    ps i am just sharing where i get most of my supplements now, sabina the lovely chemist here at the clinic will likely kill me if she gets more than a couple of requests, but if you cannot find a good source locally, you can email her. contact details on my blog euro clinics pages. 

    DCA isn't difficult to make

    I know you love and trust your European chemist but quite honestly, you can get quality DCA from any pharmacist or chemist that follows the recipe  (for lack of a better word) and it would be a whole lot cheaper than having it shipped overseas.  While Germany is a leader with a lot of cancer treatments, I don't believe it holds the monopoly on quality DCA or any other drug for that matter.  What is important is to get it from a reputable source.  It shouldn't be over the top expensive and it shouldn't be dirt cheap.  DCA can be bought from reputable sources in Canada who will ship to US patients with a prescription.  A lot of US naturopath Dr.'s source their DCA from Canada.  Smile

  • wawaju04976
    wawaju04976 Member Posts: 316

    Hi Joan

     we started DCA, I had another look at the GBM trial and found the supplemental pages, these pretty much convinced me, also our Prof. does use it in some cases. He is handling it really well, dosage is 6.25mg/kg as per trial,  according to the Canadian clinic kids can take higher doses but it does seem to take 3 months to reach theraputic serum levels.

    This stuff did regress INCURABLE highly aggressive brain tumors after all else failed and with MINIMUM toxicity, can't be ignored IMHO

     

    What is DCA?
    Judy

    What is DCA?

    Judy

  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900

    DCA isn't difficult to make

    I know you love and trust your European chemist but quite honestly, you can get quality DCA from any pharmacist or chemist that follows the recipe  (for lack of a better word) and it would be a whole lot cheaper than having it shipped overseas.  While Germany is a leader with a lot of cancer treatments, I don't believe it holds the monopoly on quality DCA or any other drug for that matter.  What is important is to get it from a reputable source.  It shouldn't be over the top expensive and it shouldn't be dirt cheap.  DCA can be bought from reputable sources in Canada who will ship to US patients with a prescription.  A lot of US naturopath Dr.'s source their DCA from Canada.  Smile

    its good to know and dca holiday

    i am just careful about supply as i have been personally warned twice by chemists here about dca supply issues and i have the next day death of a dca user that one of my doctors experienced that made him recicient to use it. now i am still on it. i have a reliable supply, it might be good to share that info if anyone want s to pm you, its just impossible for me to trust the quality of supply from the internet. dca feels different than buying say tumeric over the net. its probably just me being a bit conservative, and that not often a word i use.

    its kind of relevant to the discussion, i am going a dca holiday for 6 weeks. i have been on it for a while, the routine going forward is 3 months on, 6 weeks off. still alternating 2 weeks on and two weeks off. the idea of the large break is maximise its effectiveness. i did not prob the deeper biochemistry type issues. it could be due to multidrug resistance. if i get an explanation i'll post it here. for now i really like the idea of breaking up all my supplement routines on periodic basis, so that i keep on hitting the tumour cells from different angles.

    hugs,

    pete

  • janie1
    janie1 Member Posts: 753

    its good to know and dca holiday

    i am just careful about supply as i have been personally warned twice by chemists here about dca supply issues and i have the next day death of a dca user that one of my doctors experienced that made him recicient to use it. now i am still on it. i have a reliable supply, it might be good to share that info if anyone want s to pm you, its just impossible for me to trust the quality of supply from the internet. dca feels different than buying say tumeric over the net. its probably just me being a bit conservative, and that not often a word i use.

    its kind of relevant to the discussion, i am going a dca holiday for 6 weeks. i have been on it for a while, the routine going forward is 3 months on, 6 weeks off. still alternating 2 weeks on and two weeks off. the idea of the large break is maximise its effectiveness. i did not prob the deeper biochemistry type issues. it could be due to multidrug resistance. if i get an explanation i'll post it here. for now i really like the idea of breaking up all my supplement routines on periodic basis, so that i keep on hitting the tumour cells from different angles.

    hugs,

    pete

    Wow, so much to
    Wow, so much to consider.
    Luvinlife2....how long have you been on DCA, and ever take a break, and what does your naturopath recommend?
    Just getting different opinions.
  • luvinlife2
    luvinlife2 Member Posts: 172
    janie1 said:

    Wow, so much to
    Wow, so much to consider.
    Luvinlife2....how long have you been on DCA, and ever take a break, and what does your naturopath recommend?
    Just getting different opinions.

    I take breaks too...

    I started 1.5 years ago but I've taken a couple of breaks.  Now though, I take my DCA for 5 days and then have a 2 day break.  I found that after being on it for 3 months every day (and at a higher dose) the neuropathy in my feet bothered me.  They didn't hurt, I was losing the feeling in them.  It comes back once off the drug but this 2 day off period makes a difference and I haven't had any problems with this protocol.  I'm not sure what other patients do, our treatments are as individualized as we are.  I know some cannot handle DCA.  I've been doing the 5 on 2 off for about 2 months now.  Smile

  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425

    I take breaks too...

    I started 1.5 years ago but I've taken a couple of breaks.  Now though, I take my DCA for 5 days and then have a 2 day break.  I found that after being on it for 3 months every day (and at a higher dose) the neuropathy in my feet bothered me.  They didn't hurt, I was losing the feeling in them.  It comes back once off the drug but this 2 day off period makes a difference and I haven't had any problems with this protocol.  I'm not sure what other patients do, our treatments are as individualized as we are.  I know some cannot handle DCA.  I've been doing the 5 on 2 off for about 2 months now.  Smile

    Anyone taking Goldenseal for

    Anyone taking Goldenseal for the berberine??    I was looking at Wiki,  and it said berberine can be as effective as metformin without the side effects.....

  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    smokeyjoe said:

    Anyone taking Goldenseal for

    Anyone taking Goldenseal for the berberine??    I was looking at Wiki,  and it said berberine can be as effective as metformin without the side effects.....

    is there nothing i have not tried.?

    thanks smokey, i got a massive jar of it, i did it for 3 months to iill candida.

    hugs, 

    pete

    ps  metformin has many benefits, so much to read

  • janie1
    janie1 Member Posts: 753

    is there nothing i have not tried.?

    thanks smokey, i got a massive jar of it, i did it for 3 months to iill candida.

    hugs, 

    pete

    ps  metformin has many benefits, so much to read

    smokeyjoe,
    my naturopath

    smokeyjoe,

    my naturopath suggested berberine, but for increased bile flow, since my liver is messed up.

    didn't start taking it....yet

    i did not know about the metformin-like effects.

    I'm going to ask him more about it.....he was telling me so much at one time....i got lost.

    but maybe this is one i should be taking.....right now only taking cucurmin, liver-c (has mushrooms), and mcp.
    easing into it slowly

    how about you? doing anything different? r u going to take goldenseal?