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My mother is 92 and I'm seeking advice.

Juno22
Juno22 Member Posts: 39

I need informed advice.  I’m very confused and don’t know what is the right thing to do.  My mother is 92 and started bleeding Jan. 31st.  After an ultra-sound and a visit to a Gynecologist we know the bleeding is from her uterus.  I'm feeling overwhelmed.  The Dr. wasn’t mean but so matter of fact that I didn’t feel there was any support.  The Dr. let me know that my mother had lived a good 92 years and I would have to think about whether or not we even wanted to try a biopsy.  Which she said she might not be able to do anyway because of mom’s cervix being so closed.  And, if they can perform the biopsy and if it came back positive what then?  At her age would we want to have her go through the surgery?  She said we might not even want to do the biopsy just go home and let happen whatever will happen. What!!!!!    My mother is pretty healthy.  I need to add that she has early onset of Alzheimer’s but still does very well.   Mom is hard of hearing so even though she was sitting right there when the Dr. was speaking she didn’t hear it all.  On the way home I related the conversation and mom’s response was yes, I want the biopsy, otherwise I’ll sit and wonder and worry every day anyway.   The Dr. did say that if when trying to do the biopsy if mom was in pain she would just not do it.  I strongly felt that because of mom’s age the Dr. doesn’t feel like it’s worth going forward because after all she’s lived 92 years.   Has anyone else had experience with treating someone as old as mom.  At this point we don’t know if mom has cancer but the Dr was not encouraging because of mom’s age.  Am I supposed to just give up on my mom because of her age?  Our next appointment is set for March 6th and what do we do if the Dr can't do the biopsy because of the closed cervix?

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Comments

  • NorahS
    NorahS Member Posts: 92
    Welcome Juno

    If your mother wants to have the biopsy done, then she should have it done.

    A biopsy is only a test - it is not treatment. However, a biopsy will identify which kind of cancer your Mom has. If it's a slow growing cancer, perhaps your Mom will decide to do nothing, or perhaps there is an easy palliative treatment that will allow your mother to live her remaining years comfortably. (Palliative care is just "relieving pain or alleviating a problem without dealing with the underlying cause.")

    Futhermore, since there can sometimes be a bit of discomfort with a biopsy, your Mom should be offered medication to relax her beforehand. 

     

  • Juno22
    Juno22 Member Posts: 39
    NorahS said:

    Welcome Juno

    If your mother wants to have the biopsy done, then she should have it done.

    A biopsy is only a test - it is not treatment. However, a biopsy will identify which kind of cancer your Mom has. If it's a slow growing cancer, perhaps your Mom will decide to do nothing, or perhaps there is an easy palliative treatment that will allow your mother to live her remaining years comfortably. (Palliative care is just "relieving pain or alleviating a problem without dealing with the underlying cause.")

    Futhermore, since there can sometimes be a bit of discomfort with a biopsy, your Mom should be offered medication to relax her beforehand. 

     

    Thank you NorahS

    Thank you for taking the time to respond.  Just reading the stories of all of these brave people on this site has really humbled me.  The Dr. did tell me to give mom 600mg of motrim prior to the procedure but I am very concerned that they won't be able to insert the small tube through her closed cervix.  I strongly got the feeling that the Dr. really didn't even want to do the biopsy so I don't know how much effort will be put in trying to accomplish it.  

    Because I've been so stressed as to the right thing to do and because I don't have warm fussy's regarding the Gyn doc I've made another appointment with a new doctor that replaced my mother's primary doctor who recently left our area.  The new doctor aside from being a MD she also believes in holistic treatments.  When our primary doc left all of her paitents were moving to other doctors and even though this one was new to the center there were 300 patients ahead of us when I called a couple of months ago, which meant a long wait.  In the meantime we continued to see the PA that worked with our old primary doc.  Today, I was stressing so much at being at the hands of only the Gyn doc that I called to make an appointment with the new doctor and to make her our primary.  I knew that we wouldn't get in for some time but wanted to get an appointment confirmed.  When I called the receptionist to make the appointment she told me she just spoke with a lady that cancelled her appointment and mom could have that slot and would you believe that it is for the day before her biopsy appointment.  I know I am rattling on and on but this seems like the good Lord is watching over us.  I feel so much better that I can have the council of someone other than just the Gyn even though I know she is the specialist.  Right now I just need caring council.  This site has also made me feel calmer and I hesitated to come here because I thought it would made me feel worse.  I was so wrong. 

    Again, thank you NorahS for your time and concern.  

  • jazzy1
    jazzy1 Member Posts: 1,379
    Juno

    We as the children of parents whom are aging think they'll live forever, especially when they're healthy now.  Do agree with the other posting, if your mom wants to proceed with biopsy, by all means, do it.  You mentioned her having alzheimers (not knowing what stage of the disease?) understand she just might not realize what's happening due to her illness.  My mom has  alzheimers and at age of 84 yrs, not sure if I'd put her thru cancer treatments if it was disgnosed.

    As I've learned from a friend whom is a hospice nurse, there comes a time when quality of life is better, vs. quantity.  Must say, any type of treatments, whether be chemo or radiation can be very challenging, even for a young and healthy person.  Treatments break down our immune system and make recovery very difficult, then add in a person who is 92 yrs...a lot more difficult to get thru.

    My mother in law was diagnosed with lymphoma 3 yrs ago at age of 85 yrs and had no intentions of enduring treatments.  Told doc, I've lived a great life and truly do not want to be sick from treatments.  We had a family discussion with her, but she was adament about no treatments.  To this day, no cancer movement, as doc following via blood testing monthly.  Note -- per her doc, as we age cancer is slower moving (not sure this is true,but sure looks like it in her case).

    As I've learned with my mom, if she was diagnosed with some illness, would she treat it????  If answer is NO, why do the biopsy?  Does she have a geriatric doc?  If so, they might have a better feel for what to do, as their speciality is treating the elderly.

    In the end this is a very personal decision you and your mom need to make, as we're not in your shoes. 

    Best to you and your  mom in your decisions!!!

    Jan

     

  • Juno22
    Juno22 Member Posts: 39
    jazzy1 said:

    Juno

    We as the children of parents whom are aging think they'll live forever, especially when they're healthy now.  Do agree with the other posting, if your mom wants to proceed with biopsy, by all means, do it.  You mentioned her having alzheimers (not knowing what stage of the disease?) understand she just might not realize what's happening due to her illness.  My mom has  alzheimers and at age of 84 yrs, not sure if I'd put her thru cancer treatments if it was disgnosed.

    As I've learned from a friend whom is a hospice nurse, there comes a time when quality of life is better, vs. quantity.  Must say, any type of treatments, whether be chemo or radiation can be very challenging, even for a young and healthy person.  Treatments break down our immune system and make recovery very difficult, then add in a person who is 92 yrs...a lot more difficult to get thru.

    My mother in law was diagnosed with lymphoma 3 yrs ago at age of 85 yrs and had no intentions of enduring treatments.  Told doc, I've lived a great life and truly do not want to be sick from treatments.  We had a family discussion with her, but she was adament about no treatments.  To this day, no cancer movement, as doc following via blood testing monthly.  Note -- per her doc, as we age cancer is slower moving (not sure this is true,but sure looks like it in her case).

    As I've learned with my mom, if she was diagnosed with some illness, would she treat it????  If answer is NO, why do the biopsy?  Does she have a geriatric doc?  If so, they might have a better feel for what to do, as their speciality is treating the elderly.

    In the end this is a very personal decision you and your mom need to make, as we're not in your shoes. 

    Best to you and your  mom in your decisions!!!

    Jan

     

    Thank you Jan

    Everything you said is true and certainly makes sense.  Right this moment what makes sense may not go along with my heart so it is a painful, sad struggle within me.  Mom's Alzheimer's is still not too bad, although I don't really know what to compare it to.  Her short-term memory isn't the best although once reminded she usually remembers, I take care of her bills because that became confusing to her, but she knows everyone and is still herself all the times.  I just wish I had all the answers.  I have five siblings so no answer is going to be good for everyone.  Maybe the good Lord allowed for mom to see the MD/Holistic doctor the day before the scheduled biopsy for a reason.  We'll see.

    Thank you for your time and your thoughts,

    Darlene 

     

     

  • Ruffy7
    Ruffy7 Member Posts: 126
    Juno22 said:

    Thank you Jan

    Everything you said is true and certainly makes sense.  Right this moment what makes sense may not go along with my heart so it is a painful, sad struggle within me.  Mom's Alzheimer's is still not too bad, although I don't really know what to compare it to.  Her short-term memory isn't the best although once reminded she usually remembers, I take care of her bills because that became confusing to her, but she knows everyone and is still herself all the times.  I just wish I had all the answers.  I have five siblings so no answer is going to be good for everyone.  Maybe the good Lord allowed for mom to see the MD/Holistic doctor the day before the scheduled biopsy for a reason.  We'll see.

    Thank you for your time and your thoughts,

    Darlene 

     

     

    Hi Darlene

    What a tough thing for you to have to go through!  My boss's mother (mid 80's, I think) with dementia, fell and broke her hip last year.  Of course, they had surgery and, with her dementia, things went downhill very fast.  As others have said, any kind of surgery/treatment especially for cancer can be very tough on the very old.  I'm 52, just into menopause, because of my closed cervix, they couldn't even do a good D&C because of it and I was totally out for it.  I would think it would be even tougher to do on someone who's been in menopause for 40 years.  Does your mother understand and remember what you and the doc have told her or are you having to constantly (daily) tell her it over?  If she doesn't remember maybe it wouldn't be so bad not to do anything.  This is a very individual decision, looks like none of the options are good, but maybe making the decision that is easiest for you to live with is the way to go.  Good luck and let us know how it goes.  Ruffy

  • Cindy Bear
    Cindy Bear Member Posts: 569
    Hello

    Hi. I am sorry you have to be here for your mom. I can only give you my opinion and it's not "informed advice' by any means but here goes. No, you should not give up on your mom because of her age. She state she's in relatively good health. She might not have cancer, but she and you need to know what your facing. It's hard to believe they don't have something that can help "open the cervix' If she wants the biopsy, I would definitely have it done.. even if it means another dr. Secondly, if she has cancer and if it's in it's early stages, then I certainly would not rule out surgery either. I am a firm believer that one never knows what one would do until they are in a certain situation, but if her cancer is advanced, I would not consider chemo at her age.. and it's hard to believe she would want to put herself through that. Let me tell you about drs. When my mother passed away at age 79, 6 mos. after diagnosis and about 4 mos. into "Treatment" and I kept asking for answers about what heppened.. I was patted on the head and told, "She lived a good long  life" She was 79 yrs old.. do not allow this doctor to dictate what tests, what treatment, what course of action is right for your mother based on her age and nothing else..

    Big hugs,

    Cindy

     

  • NorahS
    NorahS Member Posts: 92

    Hello

    Hi. I am sorry you have to be here for your mom. I can only give you my opinion and it's not "informed advice' by any means but here goes. No, you should not give up on your mom because of her age. She state she's in relatively good health. She might not have cancer, but she and you need to know what your facing. It's hard to believe they don't have something that can help "open the cervix' If she wants the biopsy, I would definitely have it done.. even if it means another dr. Secondly, if she has cancer and if it's in it's early stages, then I certainly would not rule out surgery either. I am a firm believer that one never knows what one would do until they are in a certain situation, but if her cancer is advanced, I would not consider chemo at her age.. and it's hard to believe she would want to put herself through that. Let me tell you about drs. When my mother passed away at age 79, 6 mos. after diagnosis and about 4 mos. into "Treatment" and I kept asking for answers about what heppened.. I was patted on the head and told, "She lived a good long  life" She was 79 yrs old.. do not allow this doctor to dictate what tests, what treatment, what course of action is right for your mother based on her age and nothing else..

    Big hugs,

    Cindy

     

    I agree with Cindy

    Your mother has expressed a wish - and in your opinion it was sincere - to have a biopsy - that's why I feel strongly that it should be done (or at least in her case, honestly attempted). Remember that your mother is the patient here - she is 'driving the bus'.

    If your mother had expressed a wish to do nothing, I would hope that you would support her in that as well, because again, she is the patient.  

    ...IF your mother can have the biopsy, that will tell a lot about IF she has cancer, and if so, what kind of cancer she has. Then she will know what she is facing (your mother was right on in what she said in your original post). She can very likely have a CT scan.

    If it is known what kind of cancer she has (IF indeed she has cancer, you don't even know that yet) perhaps she can have surgery, chemo, radiation, or perhaps none of those are good options for her. Perhaps there is an oral chemo pill - yes, google it - which might be beneficial in her case. But you won't know without a biopsy.

    I do hope that some treatment, even if there is just some assurance that doing nothing (because the cancer is slow growing) which will benefit your Mom is found.  

     

      

  • Kathy G.
    Kathy G. Member Posts: 235 **

    Hello

    Hi. I am sorry you have to be here for your mom. I can only give you my opinion and it's not "informed advice' by any means but here goes. No, you should not give up on your mom because of her age. She state she's in relatively good health. She might not have cancer, but she and you need to know what your facing. It's hard to believe they don't have something that can help "open the cervix' If she wants the biopsy, I would definitely have it done.. even if it means another dr. Secondly, if she has cancer and if it's in it's early stages, then I certainly would not rule out surgery either. I am a firm believer that one never knows what one would do until they are in a certain situation, but if her cancer is advanced, I would not consider chemo at her age.. and it's hard to believe she would want to put herself through that. Let me tell you about drs. When my mother passed away at age 79, 6 mos. after diagnosis and about 4 mos. into "Treatment" and I kept asking for answers about what heppened.. I was patted on the head and told, "She lived a good long  life" She was 79 yrs old.. do not allow this doctor to dictate what tests, what treatment, what course of action is right for your mother based on her age and nothing else..

    Big hugs,

    Cindy

     

    I agree with Cindy that if

    I agree with Cindy that if your mom wants a biopsy done to know what she is facing a way she be found to get it done. I think we have all experienced a certain level of peace and calm knowing what we were dealing with rather than being in that awful phase of waiting and the imagination running wild!

    My father had Alzheimer's and depending on the stage your mom is in should factor into any choices made regarding treatment IF it is cancer. One of the things I hated about alot of the medical community is that they would talk to me as if my dad was not even in the room when relaying information. As you no doubt know even into the late middle stages of Alzheimer's the person still has many moments of clarity and my heart used to break for how disrespectful they were towards dad. He deserved better and I often would turn to him and repeat what was just said b/c he was also hard of hearing. The age thing is another factor where I think older patients are just disregarded by medical personnnel who feel they have lived 'a good long life!'

    As we all know getting to be that old is truly a miracle...especially in one piece. It is what many of us strive for and should be respected for...not taken for granted.

    As my father's primary caretaker I felt I knew his wishes best and did my best to honor them as he went further down the road of demnetia. At that point only you will probably know how to proceed based on what you know of your mom.

    My thoughts and prayers are with you!

     

    Kathy

  • cleo
    cleo Member Posts: 144
    I am sorry that you have had

    I am sorry that you have had to join us.    My mum had Altz and was 2 weeks away from 95 when she died.  She was fit,  loved walking and going everywhere with me until the last 6 months.   However  I have been along the cancer route and would not have wanted to put my mum through that at her age, particularly as she had got to a stage when she did not want 'strangers' assisting her.      I would have wanted to know the type of cancer if that could be diagnosed without too much stress for her and then go the holistic route as I also believe in quality of life.    The time comes when the head has to overrule the heart, and it is very difficult.    When I look back I ask myself if I did all that I could to ensure that mum's quality of life was the best possible.  The fact that I can say yes is a great comfort.     My thoughts are with you.  

  • Juno22
    Juno22 Member Posts: 39

    Hello

    Hi. I am sorry you have to be here for your mom. I can only give you my opinion and it's not "informed advice' by any means but here goes. No, you should not give up on your mom because of her age. She state she's in relatively good health. She might not have cancer, but she and you need to know what your facing. It's hard to believe they don't have something that can help "open the cervix' If she wants the biopsy, I would definitely have it done.. even if it means another dr. Secondly, if she has cancer and if it's in it's early stages, then I certainly would not rule out surgery either. I am a firm believer that one never knows what one would do until they are in a certain situation, but if her cancer is advanced, I would not consider chemo at her age.. and it's hard to believe she would want to put herself through that. Let me tell you about drs. When my mother passed away at age 79, 6 mos. after diagnosis and about 4 mos. into "Treatment" and I kept asking for answers about what heppened.. I was patted on the head and told, "She lived a good long  life" She was 79 yrs old.. do not allow this doctor to dictate what tests, what treatment, what course of action is right for your mother based on her age and nothing else..

    Big hugs,

    Cindy

     

    Hello Cindy

    I'm so sorry that I've not responded to everybody's thoughtful and caring comments.  I've been unable to log back in because when I tried the system just kept 'thinking'.  I could read the comments but couldn't respond.  I've change my password and here I am again.  My response is for all of you that have respsonded.  I have been going crazy and I keep wanting to wake up and find that his is a bad dream.  Mom's Alzheimer's was devastating enough and when that happened I remember feeling the same way.  

    I don't want to give up on my mom and I have to admit that when the doctor said in front of mom "if she was 30 it would be different but she has lived a long good life"  it knocked the breath out of me.  I guess I was really dumb going into this because it didn't dawn on me that it could be this serious to the point that I'm being told to go home and let her die peacefully.  At least that's the way I heard it.  How do you not fight for your parent?  My mother is not a throw-away.  Now, after that rant, I also have to admit that intellectually I understand more now after reading some of the comments here that I have to focus on mom and what is best for mom and her quality of life.  She definitly said she wanted to know but then the next day she forgot, but I know she will probably remember at some point again because that's what she does.  My mom's Alzheimers is not so far advanced (in my opinion) where you can't have a conversation with her even though it was diagnosed almost five years ago.  As gentle a lady as she is she is one of the strongest ladies I know

    I'm torn with guilt because I don't want mom to go through a biopsy just so I would know's what if we already know we won't put her through the tough surgeries, chemo and radiation or whatever that could follow, how does that help mom.  But on the other hand, Cindy I thought about what you said and how do we give up when we don't know what we are dealing with. I've already ordered something called ZNatural that I read about on this site from other folks cause I'm willing to do whatever is needed.  I did read that one lady was put to sleep and they dialated her cervix because even though she was much younger her cervix was closed too.  So I'm not sure why they can't make things more comfortable for mom.  Believe me I will ask that question.

    Because of the doctor's attitude and knowing what she thinks, I was nervous about all of this without other medical council so I called and made an appointment with the new doctor that replaced mom’s original primary that left the area.  She is an MD but also believes and practices holistic healing and she’s trained in geriatrics. We have not seen her before because when my sister called to transfer to her there was 300 patients ahead of her and a few months wait.  But I thought I wanted to at least get an appointment on the calendar.  I called an the scheduler told me that a lady just before me cancelled her appointment and she could get me in at 3:30pm on the 5th.   Can you believe that, the day before the scheduled biopsy?  I can’t believe the timing but am so very happy to be able to talk to someone else.  The Lord was surely watching out for us.  Hopefully she won't make me feel so guilty if we decide to go forward with the biospy.

    Sorry about my font it keeps changing me.  I want to again thank all of you, if I could hug you all I would.  Although you don't want anyone else to suffer it does help to know others have gone through this too which helps  me to know I can get through it too.  Thank you for talking to me.  I know that many on this site are suffering personally far more that me and have parents suffering that are younger than my mother, so from the bottom of my heart thank you for still trying to comfort and help me.  You don't how much you have helped.  I have listened to all advice given and all of it helps me tremendously in moving forward.  I have to say at this very moment I feel we need to do the biopsy.  Who knows what I will think tomorrow but tonight that's where my heart and head are at.

    You all are so wonderful and I wished you all lived next door.

    Darlene

  • Juno22
    Juno22 Member Posts: 39
    cleo said:

    I am sorry that you have had

    I am sorry that you have had to join us.    My mum had Altz and was 2 weeks away from 95 when she died.  She was fit,  loved walking and going everywhere with me until the last 6 months.   However  I have been along the cancer route and would not have wanted to put my mum through that at her age, particularly as she had got to a stage when she did not want 'strangers' assisting her.      I would have wanted to know the type of cancer if that could be diagnosed without too much stress for her and then go the holistic route as I also believe in quality of life.    The time comes when the head has to overrule the heart, and it is very difficult.    When I look back I ask myself if I did all that I could to ensure that mum's quality of life was the best possible.  The fact that I can say yes is a great comfort.     My thoughts are with you.  

    Hi Cleo

    Thank you for your words of wisdom.  Please read what I wrote under Cindy's comments so I don't bore everyone with the same stuff.  But I wanted you to know that your comment about how you would want to know the type of cancer if it can be diagnosed without too much stress so to know what holistic route may be out there.  To do nothing is just not in my nature and your words along with others helped me to (at this moment) feel we need to move forward with the biopsy.  I will also look forward to hearing what mom's new primary doctor has to say.  I am concerned knowing that the Gynecologist doesn't really want to do the biopsy and said she would stop if mom is any pain.  I'm not sure you can do this without some discomfort so I hope she doesn't use this as an excuse to not do it.   I will keep everyone updated on what we find out.  

    Thank you, thank you so much!  

    Darlene

  • Juno22
    Juno22 Member Posts: 39
    Kathy G. said:

    I agree with Cindy that if

    I agree with Cindy that if your mom wants a biopsy done to know what she is facing a way she be found to get it done. I think we have all experienced a certain level of peace and calm knowing what we were dealing with rather than being in that awful phase of waiting and the imagination running wild!

    My father had Alzheimer's and depending on the stage your mom is in should factor into any choices made regarding treatment IF it is cancer. One of the things I hated about alot of the medical community is that they would talk to me as if my dad was not even in the room when relaying information. As you no doubt know even into the late middle stages of Alzheimer's the person still has many moments of clarity and my heart used to break for how disrespectful they were towards dad. He deserved better and I often would turn to him and repeat what was just said b/c he was also hard of hearing. The age thing is another factor where I think older patients are just disregarded by medical personnnel who feel they have lived 'a good long life!'

    As we all know getting to be that old is truly a miracle...especially in one piece. It is what many of us strive for and should be respected for...not taken for granted.

    As my father's primary caretaker I felt I knew his wishes best and did my best to honor them as he went further down the road of demnetia. At that point only you will probably know how to proceed based on what you know of your mom.

    My thoughts and prayers are with you!

     

    Kathy

    Hi Kathy

    Since this event occured in our life I've spent so much time on this site reading that I feel like I know some of you and Kathy I have read many of your posts.  Thank you for your thoughts and wisdom.  I was very offended by the doctor commenting about her living a long life that it was all I could do not to rage at her.  I have expereiced the same things you described with your dad.  Mom is hard of hearing too.  She has had a couple of good doctors that speak directly to her and in fact make me feel weird when I offer the answer because she can't hear them.  I actually appreciated the attention they gave directly to her.  I know that I don't want to hear one more person tell me that she has lived a good long life.  If and when my mom is gone I'm afraid someone will say that to me and if they do I'm going to punch them in the mouth.  It's my mother, I dont' care if she is 150 it would still be too soon.  So I'm not repeating my myself I've written a longer response under Cindy's comments.

    Thank you for your thoughts, words and prayers, we need them.

    Darlene.

     

     

     

     

  • Juno22
    Juno22 Member Posts: 39
    Ruffy7 said:

    Hi Darlene

    What a tough thing for you to have to go through!  My boss's mother (mid 80's, I think) with dementia, fell and broke her hip last year.  Of course, they had surgery and, with her dementia, things went downhill very fast.  As others have said, any kind of surgery/treatment especially for cancer can be very tough on the very old.  I'm 52, just into menopause, because of my closed cervix, they couldn't even do a good D&C because of it and I was totally out for it.  I would think it would be even tougher to do on someone who's been in menopause for 40 years.  Does your mother understand and remember what you and the doc have told her or are you having to constantly (daily) tell her it over?  If she doesn't remember maybe it wouldn't be so bad not to do anything.  This is a very individual decision, looks like none of the options are good, but maybe making the decision that is easiest for you to live with is the way to go.  Good luck and let us know how it goes.  Ruffy

    Hi Ruffy

    I've written a longer response under Cindy's comments but I wanted to thank you for your comments.  I am very worried about the Alzheimers creating a downhill spiral if a biopsy creates too much stress, but how do we know since I don't how stressful the biospy will be?  It's a worry.  I am hoping that a bisopy will at least tell us how we can help her the best.  You mentioned that your D&C was difficult but were they able to complete a biopsy?  And if not what did they do?  I'm wondering why they don't give mom twilight sleep or something so the procedure is more comfortable for her.  The doctor said something odd that I didn't think about until later.  During the exam she said that this could be painful because of the cervix but when she was leaving the room I said something about how bad would it be and she said oh not that bad.  I'm very confused but like I've mentioned in other posts she said she would stop if mom was in pain so I don't know whose wishes she plans on following hers or moms.

    I will let all you good folks know what happens, that's the least I can do

    Darlene.

     

  • Juno22
    Juno22 Member Posts: 39
    NorahS said:

    I agree with Cindy

    Your mother has expressed a wish - and in your opinion it was sincere - to have a biopsy - that's why I feel strongly that it should be done (or at least in her case, honestly attempted). Remember that your mother is the patient here - she is 'driving the bus'.

    If your mother had expressed a wish to do nothing, I would hope that you would support her in that as well, because again, she is the patient.  

    ...IF your mother can have the biopsy, that will tell a lot about IF she has cancer, and if so, what kind of cancer she has. Then she will know what she is facing (your mother was right on in what she said in your original post). She can very likely have a CT scan.

    If it is known what kind of cancer she has (IF indeed she has cancer, you don't even know that yet) perhaps she can have surgery, chemo, radiation, or perhaps none of those are good options for her. Perhaps there is an oral chemo pill - yes, google it - which might be beneficial in her case. But you won't know without a biopsy.

    I do hope that some treatment, even if there is just some assurance that doing nothing (because the cancer is slow growing) which will benefit your Mom is found.  

     

      

    Hi Norah

    I've left additional comments under Cindy's post for my full thanks to all of you wonderful people.  I feel so much better about probably moving forward with the biopsy.  We need to know our next move even if it's no move because we can't.  I don't know the odds of mom having cancer verus something else from her bleeding uterus, I don't even know what other things it might be, the doctor was only foucused on worse case scenario and being uprepared for that I was in such shock that I didn't ask the questions I shoud have asked, my stomach was in my throat and when the tears started I focused on not letting mom see me get so upset.  I was just not prepared.  The internet has not been very helpful in that area either, especially because I've searched base on mom's age.  I store in my brain everything all of you have said and I feel so much better prepared than I did.  I can't believe how scared I was to access this site for the first time the other day, I was afriad I would hear only sad things that I didn't think I could handle right now, but even though some of the stories are sad they are also inspirational because of the strength that people show even when they are scared to the bone.   The expirence, insight, first hand knowledge and good ole common sense of others has helped this usually in control lady so much.  I can't even begin to express how thankful I am for anyone that takes the time to comfort others.

    Thank you and I will keep you all updated.

    Darlene

  • jazzy1
    jazzy1 Member Posts: 1,379
    Juno22 said:

    Hi Cleo

    Thank you for your words of wisdom.  Please read what I wrote under Cindy's comments so I don't bore everyone with the same stuff.  But I wanted you to know that your comment about how you would want to know the type of cancer if it can be diagnosed without too much stress so to know what holistic route may be out there.  To do nothing is just not in my nature and your words along with others helped me to (at this moment) feel we need to move forward with the biopsy.  I will also look forward to hearing what mom's new primary doctor has to say.  I am concerned knowing that the Gynecologist doesn't really want to do the biopsy and said she would stop if mom is any pain.  I'm not sure you can do this without some discomfort so I hope she doesn't use this as an excuse to not do it.   I will keep everyone updated on what we find out.  

    Thank you, thank you so much!  

    Darlene

    June

    I've found many in the medical community tend to not view our "elders" in a good light.  They think about how long they've lived and why bother if they have a disease, let them go, as not worth the treatments.  In other words, they're too old and lived a good life.  

    As you said, TO DO NOTHING IS JUST NOT IN MY NATURE".  I'm with you, so proceed if this is your gut feeling.  Then after the results, gather the family and make a decision to proceed or allow her to live out her life with no treatments.  

    Also, many docs will rethink how they treat the elderly.  For instance, mother n law was having a colonoscopy and with most of us, we just adminster the drink and go for procedure at facility next day.  With MIL, doc had her admitted to hospital over nite and had the staff monitor her, and next day had procedure at hospital.  As well with your mom, they can adjust for the tight cervix and possibly give her some sedative so she's comfortable during procedure...why have her suffer at her age.

    Wishing you and your mom the best and keep us posted~

    Jan

     

  • Sara Zipora
    Sara Zipora Member Posts: 231
    jazzy1 said:

    June

    I've found many in the medical community tend to not view our "elders" in a good light.  They think about how long they've lived and why bother if they have a disease, let them go, as not worth the treatments.  In other words, they're too old and lived a good life.  

    As you said, TO DO NOTHING IS JUST NOT IN MY NATURE".  I'm with you, so proceed if this is your gut feeling.  Then after the results, gather the family and make a decision to proceed or allow her to live out her life with no treatments.  

    Also, many docs will rethink how they treat the elderly.  For instance, mother n law was having a colonoscopy and with most of us, we just adminster the drink and go for procedure at facility next day.  With MIL, doc had her admitted to hospital over nite and had the staff monitor her, and next day had procedure at hospital.  As well with your mom, they can adjust for the tight cervix and possibly give her some sedative so she's comfortable during procedure...why have her suffer at her age.

    Wishing you and your mom the best and keep us posted~

    Jan

     

    I wholly agree with her.!

    but want to add Why should any of us suffer. If there is anything to be done to release any suffering or pain in any procedure we should all demand it!

    also factually,when one is in pain and blood pressure rises, healing slows, so pain free also hastens healing from various procedures.

    i do think though you and your sibs should speak to an Onco or Palliative care Social Worker, Psychologist or Religious Leader, as your questions and quandaries are not new to them and may go a long way to helping you.  It is truly sad that so much responsibility is placed on the ill and family! But medicine today is so afraid of the Letiginous patient and family that it clouds their response.

    medicine's first axiom is Do No Harm, I would add to that both physically and spiritually.

    re the horrible statement of 'outies' You should be thankful..bla bla bla,  we are never thAkful enougH for what we have nor should we be, we all want more, more of a good life, more off a pain free life more of whatever, as do the Docs!

    the benefit of your Mom's Altzheimers is that she suffers from thinking less than you do! Share your concerns with us AND your sibs. Think of your worrying for your Mom as your gift to her, as a thanks for her giving so much to you all all these years.

    Do a Yoga class with your Mom. Take a deep breath, smell the flowers, go to the zoo. Enjoy every minute of life.

    Sara

    p.s. I haven't a clue how the font keeps changing, I wrote to Beila in thRee sizes and fonts I didn't seem to have any control of, I guess that is a metaphOr of what we are all going thru, sitting back and realizing we have mucH less, even no contol  over so much of life.

  • Juno22
    Juno22 Member Posts: 39

    I wholly agree with her.!

    but want to add Why should any of us suffer. If there is anything to be done to release any suffering or pain in any procedure we should all demand it!

    also factually,when one is in pain and blood pressure rises, healing slows, so pain free also hastens healing from various procedures.

    i do think though you and your sibs should speak to an Onco or Palliative care Social Worker, Psychologist or Religious Leader, as your questions and quandaries are not new to them and may go a long way to helping you.  It is truly sad that so much responsibility is placed on the ill and family! But medicine today is so afraid of the Letiginous patient and family that it clouds their response.

    medicine's first axiom is Do No Harm, I would add to that both physically and spiritually.

    re the horrible statement of 'outies' You should be thankful..bla bla bla,  we are never thAkful enougH for what we have nor should we be, we all want more, more of a good life, more off a pain free life more of whatever, as do the Docs!

    the benefit of your Mom's Altzheimers is that she suffers from thinking less than you do! Share your concerns with us AND your sibs. Think of your worrying for your Mom as your gift to her, as a thanks for her giving so much to you all all these years.

    Do a Yoga class with your Mom. Take a deep breath, smell the flowers, go to the zoo. Enjoy every minute of life.

    Sara

    p.s. I haven't a clue how the font keeps changing, I wrote to Beila in thRee sizes and fonts I didn't seem to have any control of, I guess that is a metaphOr of what we are all going thru, sitting back and realizing we have mucH less, even no contol  over so much of life.

    Hello to Jan and Sara

    Thank you ladies for your comments.  I listen and digest everything that is given to me on this site.  My emotions go up and down, just when I feel positive about what I'm doing the next day I just feel depressed.  But, I know that's normal and that's mainly from from what others have said.  I'm still planning on the biopsy and if this doctor won't do it, there are other doctors out there, in fact after speaking with our new primary the day before the scheduled biopsy maybe she'll recommend another doctor and/or offer advice as to what else mom can take to lessen the pain other than just the 600mg of motrim that the Gyn. suggested.  

    I'm still have a problem with logging back on to this site each time.  It finally times out on me and the only way I can access to respond is to reset my password.  But I will do that each time if needed. 

    Ladies, Blessing to one and all.

    Darlene    

     

  • jazzy1
    jazzy1 Member Posts: 1,379
    Juno22 said:

    Hello to Jan and Sara

    Thank you ladies for your comments.  I listen and digest everything that is given to me on this site.  My emotions go up and down, just when I feel positive about what I'm doing the next day I just feel depressed.  But, I know that's normal and that's mainly from from what others have said.  I'm still planning on the biopsy and if this doctor won't do it, there are other doctors out there, in fact after speaking with our new primary the day before the scheduled biopsy maybe she'll recommend another doctor and/or offer advice as to what else mom can take to lessen the pain other than just the 600mg of motrim that the Gyn. suggested.  

    I'm still have a problem with logging back on to this site each time.  It finally times out on me and the only way I can access to respond is to reset my password.  But I will do that each time if needed. 

    Ladies, Blessing to one and all.

    Darlene    

     

    Darlene

    Here's another thought as to why you might be so up/down on all this decision stuff ---- you don't have enough information yet to  make an educated decision?  Possibly until the biopsy comes back you can't say go this or that direction...can you?  The biopsy might not be as bad as one thinks, then you won't have to worry about treatments, etc.  Might just need some type of meds to help and nothing too harsh for your mom.

    Just thinking outloud here ....... and be patient with yourself, the decision will hit you when least expecting.  I usually would have some major decisions to make and just couldn't decide which direction to go.  I'd go out for a nice run and think thru the subject at hand and by the end of my run I'd have made up my mind on decision to go...that was it, THE END!!

    Good luck~

    Jan

  • Double Whammy
    Double Whammy Member Posts: 2,832
    jazzy1 said:

    Darlene

    Here's another thought as to why you might be so up/down on all this decision stuff ---- you don't have enough information yet to  make an educated decision?  Possibly until the biopsy comes back you can't say go this or that direction...can you?  The biopsy might not be as bad as one thinks, then you won't have to worry about treatments, etc.  Might just need some type of meds to help and nothing too harsh for your mom.

    Just thinking outloud here ....... and be patient with yourself, the decision will hit you when least expecting.  I usually would have some major decisions to make and just couldn't decide which direction to go.  I'd go out for a nice run and think thru the subject at hand and by the end of my run I'd have made up my mind on decision to go...that was it, THE END!!

    Good luck~

    Jan

    So many things to consider

    but I want to comment on the pain with biopsy.  The cramping can be helped with ibuprofen or something stronger -if you mom can tolerate the meds - but if the doc can't get into the cervix to even do a biopsy, I don't know what the alternative is.  They DO use sedation when indicated, so ask about it.  Of course, a D & C could be performed under general anesthesia.  Ask if your mom is a candidate for that or if anesthesia is too risky at her age. 

    Your mom's age is certainly a major factor in treatment choices and options, but I hope you will know just what the heck there is to treat (or not) first.  Uterine bleeding at 92 is certainly not normal but at this point, that's all you know. 

    My dear 92-year-old friend stopped having mammograms many years ago because she said if she developed breast cancer, she would not treat it at her age so she'd rather just not know.  This, however, was her decision, not something someone else told her to do!   And, I'm not sure what she would do if she actually found a lump.  She might change her mind and it is her prerogative to do just that.  It's when we're not given choices - or we feel we're not given choices, that we become upset - even if our choice would be to "let nature take its course".

    Good luck to you and your mom on the 5th.  I hope the new doc listens and offers some thoughtful suggestions and you have an actual conversation.  

    Suzanne   

  • Juno22
    Juno22 Member Posts: 39

    So many things to consider

    but I want to comment on the pain with biopsy.  The cramping can be helped with ibuprofen or something stronger -if you mom can tolerate the meds - but if the doc can't get into the cervix to even do a biopsy, I don't know what the alternative is.  They DO use sedation when indicated, so ask about it.  Of course, a D & C could be performed under general anesthesia.  Ask if your mom is a candidate for that or if anesthesia is too risky at her age. 

    Your mom's age is certainly a major factor in treatment choices and options, but I hope you will know just what the heck there is to treat (or not) first.  Uterine bleeding at 92 is certainly not normal but at this point, that's all you know. 

    My dear 92-year-old friend stopped having mammograms many years ago because she said if she developed breast cancer, she would not treat it at her age so she'd rather just not know.  This, however, was her decision, not something someone else told her to do!   And, I'm not sure what she would do if she actually found a lump.  She might change her mind and it is her prerogative to do just that.  It's when we're not given choices - or we feel we're not given choices, that we become upset - even if our choice would be to "let nature take its course".

    Good luck to you and your mom on the 5th.  I hope the new doc listens and offers some thoughtful suggestions and you have an actual conversation.  

    Suzanne   

    Lord, I love all of these women

    Jan & Suzanne,

    Thank you for your time and words.  I've said it before, but I wished you all lived around the corner from me.  It's hard to make close friends when you stay at home a lot and then you never know the true nature of someone that you are trying to befriend.  What I have found on this site are real people, speaking from their hearts, giving up of their time to help others.  You are all what I call real people, you have learned not to waste your time on petty stuff and just focus on taking that next step and just keep moving forward.    I wish I could do more for each of you.  I'm the 'child' in this arena and all I can do is to say to each and every one of you that you are all wonderful.  I remember a conversation with my Aunt some years ago.  She had lost both of her sons and I asked “Aunt Ginny how did you stand it?” and she responded with “if I had another choice I would have taken it but all I can do is stand it.”  Isn’t that the truth and I’ve never forgotten her words.

    Yesterday was a good day where I felt almost normal, today I'm letting worry get to me and then I think about all of you. They say that God doesn't give us more than we can handle but I swear all of you are superwomen.  I am in awe of your strength and humbled to the bone.  I'm sure in your quiet moments you may have doubts about what you can handle, but believe me I was led to this site for a reason and the reason was because of all of you.    

    With momma, if they can't do the biopsy or if the biopsy is positive I counting on the new doctor to help me with any holistic knowledge she may have.  I know that momma's age restricts what we can or even should do, but the only way I feel both us can have any peace is to be working on something that could help instead of doing nothing.  I know you may think that with momma having Alzheimer's that she won't remember so maybe we should just let it go.  That's not the case.  She may not think about it every moment like I seem to be doing, but for example, one of my brothers and his wife were visiting yesterday and out of the blue momma starting telling my SIL her concerns and that we are going to try a biopsy to find out what is going on.  But be assured I won't let anyone hurt my mother more than necessary.  And I will check with the MD on the 5th for suggestions of other pain meds mom could take and share that with the Gynecologist.  Also, Suzanne I will check into a D & C and see if that is an option if they can't do the biopsy.  The waiting is awful.  I know what the waiting is like; I've had three major surgeries, once for uterus to remove grapefruit sized tumor, once for tumor ridden ovaries and then for what was described as a mass in my abdomen.  Each time I had to wait to find out if I had cancer.  I was lucky each time, and I don't know why but this waiting to find out about my momma is worse.        

    Jan, I feel like I know you from all of the comments I’ve read where you help, give advice based on your experience and in general give folks comfort in just being there.  Could you please move to the Phoenix area, LOL. 

    I had to change my password again to log back in, really strange, but I promise to keep all of you updated.  Today I also received worrying information about a very close friend, I’ve known her for most of my life, and she’s like a sister.  She had ovarian cancer diagnosed Dec 26th, 2011.  I’m sorry I don’t know what type I know she was a Stage 3, but someone else told her stage IV so I’m not sure.  She had surgery and then 6 months of chemo, no radiation though.  She finished her treatments last May.  Her CA125’s have been at 9 and then 11 and this week it was 14.  They did a CAT and told her there is a spot on her liver.  That’s all we know right now.  I am going to recommend she join this network (if she hasn’t already) because I know I have felt so much better reading and learning what all of you already know.  You are right, knowledge does help.

    Thank you, thank you, and thank you for caring.

    Darlene