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HEAVEN

dmj101's picture
dmj101
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Any one watching Barbara Walters - What and Where is Heaven..
I will be back later to tell you what I think of this special..
if you are watching let me know your thoughs..

dmj101's picture
dmj101
Posts: 527
Joined: Nov 2011

no real answer.. but I believe...
but I like the thought that there is a heaven.
I liked the idea that maybe the idea of heaven is what guides us to be better people here and now..
90
90% believe in Heaven .. do you.. I believe

Richard Gere believes this is heaven here.. if that is so.. what happened to bring us here.. he believe those in true peace are in heaven here. hmmm.. Richard.. I don't know..

My religion tells me we go to heaven and it will be peacefull there. I don't know if I believe we see those we knew here.. but I hope so..

Elizabeth Taylor said not to fear death because heaven will be wonderful.

I don't fear death and I have told others that.. as I believe I and all of us are going to Heaven.... I just don't want to get there too early as it is always a good idea to be fashionably late..

Doc_Hawk's picture
Doc_Hawk
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Fashionably late is my plan as well. I'm not afraid to die, I just don't want to leave unfinished business! I've got a couple of books and stories that I'd like to see in print some day.

As for an Afterlife, I believe that their must be something. One definition of death is the cessation of energy activity in the body. Since energy can neither be created nor destroyed that means that the energy within each of us must go somewhere, so where is that? As for the energy that we have, it is transferred to us from that which was within our parents when we are conceived.

dmj101's picture
dmj101
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That energy is the Soul if you believe in the bible I think..
I believe the Soul has to go somewhere and I believe ours are going to Heaven.
There are many people I would love to meet in this world that I have not but I believe at times their souls have moved to converge with mine at times.
Like when you read a good book or a good story or have a good conversation..
I believe our Souls travel with or without our earthly being alive or dead..
Have you ever had that chill and wondered what that was.. I remember my mom telling me once that was " death walked by and passed you by" "warmed over by death" I don't know..
I believe
I believe
I believe
Ray, I would love to read your books..
I think our souls travel over these internet lines everytime we post here.
I feel the energy of each of us and it give me Hope..
We all may never meet on this earth.. but I know I will visit with each of the posters here in heaven someday.. and be so thankful our souls converged while we were here..

jjaj133's picture
jjaj133
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I caught some of the show. I don't think it will change anyone's mind. i happen to believe. There are too many unexplained occurrences for there not to be something after this. As you both have said, I am not in a hurry to find out. ; )
Judy

dmj101's picture
dmj101
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I agree the show was not persausive at all.. it was more just a stating of the various beliefs... I like the kid who said I don't care if you believe.. I do..

tommycat's picture
tommycat
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Your last sentence made me laugh :)
I believe we are here, now, and life is what we make it and how we live it.
That very simple sentence holds a million philosophical thoughts for me.
I believe when we die, we change into energy, and I believe that because there are times when I strongly feel my mother's presence, and others who I can't figure out who they are.
It's a very nice feeling.
Sharing: Years ago, I was in a very bad accident on the freeway where I hit a drunk driver. :(
The force was so great that their car flipped, and my passenger's head went into my windshield.
Yet at that moment I was suddenly outside my car watching the whole thing and I was in a great windstorm....yet there was someone behind me.....with me the entire time.
I never hit my head, and I'm sure there are many scientific/medical reasons to explain this phenomena, but I KNOW at that moment I touched something outside of reality as we know it.
Sometimes that feeling comes to me when I see a shaft of sunlight hitting something a certain way, or feel undescribably happy with someone, like my children.
Things like that are heaven on earth.
hugs to all,
tommycat

peterz54's picture
peterz54
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have been a non-believer since a child and grown to accept that many people, good people and bad, hold many beliefs about this concept of an after-life and about gods. what counts to me is how we live our lives now. How we treat one another and other aware beings on this planet.

I have three children, and a wife who will likely not live out the year. It would be nice to think their essense will persist in some way after they pass - something I wish for all good people, but none of it rings true.

What inspires me is how people hold up and try to make a life and do the right thing in the here and now, often under dire circumstances, and it's all the more inspiring when I know they know this is all we have.

z's picture
z
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I read your comment about your 3 children and your wife, I am sorry you will be losing them. I have never seen you write about them, so I didn't know why you will lose them. Lori

peterz54's picture
peterz54
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sorry for the ambiguity Lori. My wife has a very poor prognosis, kids are OK. peter

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Annabelle41415
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That is the most simplest explanation of a non-believer, or agnostic (thinking that is the right term that I've heard). You have put it in such a simple term that even me, as a Christian, can understand where you are coming from. Even though praying the Rosary every day, praying and novenas for this group on a daily basis I've come to accept that and acknowledge that we all have different beliefs and this is part of life. Just love this group for who they are and not how they live or think. I've not known that your wife and children are suffering and I'm sorry for that. We all have our beliefs and although mine is Christian, I'll call you friend even though you don't believe as me. My best wishes for you, your lovely wife and children.

PatchAdams
Posts: 271
Joined: Nov 2011

I'm a Christian and believe in what the Bible says about heaven and hell. I don't like Barbara Walters (her voice drives me crazy) and didn't watch (only have antenna t.v. and live in the boonies).

Randy Alcorn has a very interesting book on heaven. It's called 'Heaven' and was chosen as 'Book of the Month' by Barnes and Noble.

I don't fear death. I fear dying an ugly death. I don't want my family and friends to see me like some of the people who have died, what we've read it was like for some at the end. I don't want them to have to go through that.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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But I do not believe it exists. Our life is here and our time is now, we should live it to the fullest.

JayhawkDan's picture
JayhawkDan
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There has to be some point to this life, but I understand intelligent people -- good people -- can disagree. I don't fear death -- my main concern is preparing my family to go on without me. I don't want them to be sad, but I know that's impossible. But our belief in God is what will help them cope with my passing. I believe I will be reunited with my loved ones that have already passed -- I know they're wating for me, and I will be waiting for those that come after me. These thoughts give me peace, and that's a good thing. Even if I happen to be wrong about these beliefs (I know I'm not), then where's the harm in the peace that me and my family get from these feelings? If we just cease to exist in any shape, form or spirit after death, it doesn't really matter, does it? Dan

dmj101's picture
dmj101
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It is exactly that believe that make coping with loss easier..
See you in Heaven Dan..

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
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I do believe it exists. Our life is here and our time is now, we should live it to the fullest.

with unconditional love and peace we are all apart of the fabric of the universe, the extent to which we are apart of it is determined by how open our hearts and minds are.

hugs,
pete

danker
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I too believe. St Paul said there is faith,hope,and love. With love being the greatest. In heaven we will no longer need faith or hope, only love.

YoungerSis62's picture
YoungerSis62
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I saw the Walter's program - what she did was present all views. In my opinion, ironically, it seems all "religions" believe the same thing. It's just the spin on WHY they believe what they believe; i.e. live a good life, be kind and loving to each other, try to let good win over evil, and eventually, after we have fought the good fight (it sure isn't easy to do everything above)our "reward" will be whatever we perceive it to be. I am a Catholic, but found the Jewish perspective very intriguing; i.e. Catholics believe in a "reward system" but the Judean philosphy seems to be live well just to please God - I like that. I over-simplify the differences, ofcourse. But this is the point that sticks with the program's agenda - it was definitely "interesting" and "entertaining"

dmj101's picture
dmj101
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i agree... I have said this many times Religions are about teaching us to live good moral lives... none really want anything bad. they are all about living well and beng a kind loving people.

janie1
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I've learned a lot since attending a more informative (Bible-based) church. Old church was just the same thing week after week, didn't learn anything.

How my pastor explains if the Bible is "true".......he gets that question a lot.
He says that the Bible is a book of ancient documents. Different people recorded what they saw and heard. These people lived far away from each other (no internet, no phones, no newspapers, no tv). They did not meet up with each other, didn't even live during the same life span. But, their accounts were basically the same.

I could go on and on, cause this part of life and learning is very important to me. I feel it is my responsibility to learn and seek out facts on something so important.

Also, I hear so many people say that they think if they "try to do good" than that is all that is required. Who determines what is good enough? That has always been my question. Funny..... when I started attending this church every week, I found out that the pastor had already written a book.....HOW GOOD IS GOOD ENOUGH. I read it, and I "get it".

It has been a relief ( i guess that would be one of the descriptions), to have finally found some answers. Before, I was just going through the motions, and I knew, knew, knew, that I was missing the big picture. And for me, the last thing I wanted to do was go through my entire life, and miss the big picture.......that would just be a tragedy (for me).

Every week I continue to learn, and boy is it fascinating. It scares me to think of how really bad I would have handled my diagnosis without knowing what I had recently learned. I'm still scared, but not of where I am headed. That's the only part that gives me any comfort.

My church's messages are on the internet every week. It is watched in around 40 countries.

Another thing I like about my church.....there is so much good, practical advice on relationships (based on Bible principles). Today's problems are no different than those of hundreds... thousands, of years ago. When you have someone who can communicate that in
the here and now.......it is priceless.

Anyway, just saying what has tremendously helped me (and hubby loves it, too....which is REALLY amazing.......anything to help the marriage.)

joemetz's picture
joemetz
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I love your post.

thank you.

ron50's picture
ron50
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cyle of life is more than enough for me thanks,Ron.

jjaj133's picture
jjaj133
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I agree, Ron . I have read about reincarnation, and that you don't have to come back. One supposedly makes up good karma faster by coming back. Well what is the hurry?? where are they going ? IF this is true, I ain't comin back! no how no way !
J

dmj101's picture
dmj101
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i don't think we have much say...
my mom used to say my dad walked this earth before.
my brother recently saw a medium and she was telling him his daughter is his soulmate and they have traveled thru time together they are like bff. not at all like father/daughter.
she was trying to explain to him we live in multiple universes. like in the matrix.
I don't know..
I kind of believe in reincarnation.. I just don't know why we don't remember our past lives.
years ago I met a man who had lost his wife that I later found out the same year I was born. and I had a very unusual connection with him it was very weird since he was about 50 when I was about 25... it was like we new each other.. I should mention I first ran into this man a few years earlier in my town looking back at coincidences.. and then the next time I ran into was in NYC at the WTC while visiting a client... we rode the path back to NJ and go figure we were parked next to each other at the part and ride.. and we said goodbye.. about a week later I was in the mall with a friend at a restuarant with a bar having lunch.. and my friend was saying some old man was watching us from the bar.. I looked up and he was approaching me to say "you again" I thought how wierd.. about a month later my mom passes and I was at the cemetary about a week later and there he was again... visiting his wifes grave 2 rows up from my parents.. why was the universe doing this... never did we discuss any of these coincidences.. till about 5 years later when I moved to a new town and knew no one there.. I was running from the ghosts of my family.. well who do i run into again.. this man with his son... who was born to the wife who had died in childbirth at the same hospital I was born.. something kept moving this relationship.. the son and I got along famously and about 2 years later the man died.. the son and I discussed all these coincidences and the man had kept a journal and had a pic of his wife in it.. it was very odd.. we all have twins. and she could have been my sister and this man never told me..though he mentioned it in his journalling several times.. the son and I eventually lost track of each other and occassionally we talk but it is wierd now..
the universe is weird.. were the souls conmected some how of his wife and me .. as the death occurred the day before I was born..

Doc_Hawk's picture
Doc_Hawk
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That is pretty wild, Donna. I've never experienced anything like that, but have known people who had. I do fear that reincarnation may be possible and like J if anyway possible I don't want to take this ride again! In your original post, you mentioned how Richard (Gerbil Boy) Gere believes that this life is Heaven. If it is then there must be some seriously bad mojo in my past lives. I've been living in Hell for almost six years now.

jjaj133's picture
jjaj133
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Hey Doc, my dad always said," this is hell, anything else has to be better." At the time I thought he was just a bitter man, now i kinda get it. : (

dmj101's picture
dmj101
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i am mot sure.. I have the idea and I must have picked it up somewhere but I don't think it ia bible topic..
if you suffer in one life the next is more pleasant..
I am hoping that is the case..
Judy wrote in the next posting that her father always said this is Hell..
I have heard that too.
you know we are avoiding that maybe this is purgatory and we are traveling thru the levels of purgatory to reach heaven.
I would have to think if this was true. we must be pretty low in the levels and more is coming.. but who knows..

The Myans say the world ends this Decemeber. so lets see where we are in January 2013

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Has the Higgs-Boson Announcement (to oversimplify it - that something can be created out of nothing) changed anyone's views?
As someone who is interested in many faiths, the theme of an afterlife runs through practically all of them. As do virgin births, a holy trilogy, death & resurrection, obedience, punishment & damnation, eternal salvation (provided you chose the "correct" religion), conversion of those who think differently than those in power (by choosing the "wrong" religion) and much more.

Are the common themes just a coincidence considering there was no way for cultures to communicate with each other over continents? Or is it an example of how mankind has an innate desire to have explanations for everything since science was only as good as the technology available at the time? People tend to worship and/or fear what they don't understand and create stories to explain what they do not understand (prior to Magellan, no one had traveled around the world and came back so therefore the Earth must be flat and the fell off the edge or was eaten by sea serpents - serpents being another common theme)

Could the concept of heaven be something to sooth us when loved ones die and when we are faced with our own mortality?
Could ALL cultures be right and whatever you believe is what happens to you?
Just wondering... Like the question "how do you cure cancer?", there's no right or wrong answer.
Happy Sunday!
:-)
-phil

peterz54's picture
peterz54
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mmmm....

but some views are clearly more wrong or right than others :)

in the search for cancer cures, does anyone here want to jettison the scientific method, the use of reason, which in their best form are self-correcting, and put guesswork and anecdotal stories in their place...I would hope not, or why go to doctors and rely on research?

more broadly, it should be fairly clear that humans tend to adopt the beliefs and traditions of the culture into which they were born and raised, and those beliefs are generally not challenged by most people in any rigorous way. They go with the flow. Otherwise how to explain the high probability of becoming a muslim if born into a muslim society. likewise for christians, hindus, and so on.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Some are more right than others... It depends on who you hang with :-)
With cancer, I tend to prefer treatments that have some science behind them. But that's me.
I agree that many belong to whatever religion/culture they are born into.
Going with the flow! No one likes troublemakers :-)

I personally think its good to question one's faith at some point to see if it truely is your belief.
It can wind up strengthening your faith or open up other possibilities.

JayhawkDan's picture
JayhawkDan
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Much like Socrates stating "an unexamined life is not worth living," I believe you have to question your faith. Understanding what you believe and why you believe it. It ultimately comes down to faith because much of what we believe in regards to our spiritual life is unprovable. That's part of what makes it fascinating. I'm a Catholic, born and raised, and I'm comfortable with the teachings of the Church. But from a broader perspective, I simply can't believe that all of this is random. The human form and function, ability to think and reason (well, sometimes) and to be able to contemplate these very subjects. I'm humbled by the vastness of time and space, and how any of this could have just "happened" without a higher power. How do you wrap your mind around eternity? I'm in no hurry to get these answers, but I wonder if we'll get the answers to all the big questions when we die, you know, like where Jiimmy Hoffa is buried...;-)
Dan

peterz54's picture
peterz54
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and are subject to many biases we usually are not aware of, including the cultural bias I mentioned earlier, and in my view, we are also subject to the bias of thinking we have a special place in nature which fuels many of the creation stories which have us as a central focus.

Grapling with concepts like infinity, existence, etc. illustrate our ignorance and limited ability to comprehend, but that does not stop our species from trying to understand and explain, or stop us from accepting bad explanations rather than just admitting we don't know.

As for random vs higher power, I don't see how the absence of gods means the universe is random, or the presence of gods means it isn't random. gods would have to come from somewhere as well by the same reasoning. from what we can observe, we do not live in a random universe, but one clearly governed by laws of nature. The processes that guided the development of you and I from a fertilized egg to a human being are not random, the same developmental process occurs every time. Why can't we say the same for each level of nature going backwards in time (time being another possible human construct)?

If we were able to prove, by way of logic and evidence, an intelligence is behind, or entwined within, nature there is still a long way to go to connect that intelligence with the gods of our creation stories.

For me it works just to accept that we will never know where all of this originated, and also to believe that the universe always existed (maybe a bias on my part as a starting point makes no sense to me), while at the same time appreciating our unfolding understanding of the world and ourselves.

well, enough on this..have gone far afield of why I am on this site and really don't want to come across as if I am going out of my way to insult anyone. I know I'm in a minority and am ok with that..

back to my wife's cancer...

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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But would you agree that one can examine their life without believing in a God or following a religion? Does questioning our existence and whether there is a point to it all have to include faith? I was raised catholic (did 8 years of catholic school too) but questioned their teachings early on. For many reasons it didn't make sense to me. That doesn't make it true or untrue, it just didn't ring true for me.

I do believe in evolution and natural selection. I also believe that there is SO much that we are not capable of understanding and possibly we may learn more about ourselves and our universe. We're limited in many ways even though we rule the Earth now. Dinosaurs (if one believes they existed hundreds of millions of years ago) had their run of the planet for a very long time until they were likely taken out by an asteroid. I have little doubt that at some point, Mother Earth will shake us off her like a wet dog dries itself.

The recent Higgs-Boson discovery shows that something can appear out of nothing. It's difficult to wrap my brain around that as well as infinity, parallel universes, and why anyone cares about the Kardashians!

Religion as well as science are both facinating subjects. I think that both try to help us figure out why we're here but approach the question differently.

The last I heard he was at the 50 yard line at the Meadowlands...

peterz54's picture
peterz54
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Lawrence Krauss lecture
A universe from nothing

JayhawkDan's picture
JayhawkDan
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I didn't really mean that one had to do with the other...just as an "unexamined life is not worth living," so to it's important to examine your faith. I also spent 8 years in a Catholic elementary school -- some experiences good, some bad -- and I've thought a lot about my faith -- and do I really believe there is a "God," and thought a lot about why I believe that. But I'm not here to argue my beliefs or try to change anyones mind, that's a discussion for another day and probably another forum. My faith strengthens me and gives me peace, and gives my family peace. That's really all there is to say, and like I said earlier, I understand that intelligent, and good, people can and do disagree.

So, I had heard under one of the goal posts at the Meadowlands...at least it's getting narrowed down...

Doc_Hawk's picture
Doc_Hawk
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The announcement of the Higgs-Bosen has only strengthened my belief in God and an Aftelife. Contrary to what some people may believe about a Supreme Being, it is my belief that He is not some kind of magician who can do the impossible by blinking His eyes of wiggling His nose. He must follow the Physical Laws of the Universe and the H-B is only the last which has been discovered. There's a mathematician (cannot recall his name right now) who is working on a formula which may show that there is an active intelligence guiding the Universe. To me, this would be the mind of God providing order where, according to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, there should only be chaos. This Law, simply stated, says that the natural tendency in a closed system is to spiral into disorder. And yet the Universe is a very ordered and well structured place. Also, from models based on the four natural forces, the currently believed physical structure of the Universe strongly resembles the neural patterns that we see inside a brain. For me, all of these prove beyond a doubt that there is a Higher Order of Intelligence that guides the Universe.

Vickilg's picture
Vickilg
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I believe in God. Without the comfort of having Him in my life, I would not be able to handle having cancer. I so not want to die and I am in no rush to get to Heaven however it's nice knowing there is a place of love waiting for me. I have friends that believe and friends that do not and all of that us okay with me. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone. It'll each his own. The one fact we can all agree on is that we are all here now and I just wish people would treat others better and there was no suffering, hungry babies or homeless people. I know that even my friends that do not believe in God still humbly acknowledge when I prayer for them... Just in case I am right.

Big hug my friends

Vicki

YoungerSis62's picture
YoungerSis62
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I need to confess that I have questioned my beliefs; my re-currence of cancer has depressed me to the point of questioning existance of God. Yet I am praying for that mustard seed of faith, so it can grow again and once more comfort me. On one hand I have seen that I am protected (by having caught it early) and yet also feel abandoned because it keeps coming back.

This is a strange venue to be discussing beliefs instead of cancer; but how much better to be thinking about beliefs rather than cancer, at least for me, for a little while.

Thank you dmj101 for starting this thread. I found everyone's comments enlightening and food for thought, and I thank you all.

Helen321's picture
Helen321
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I don't believe in an afterlife but my family does and so as not to make them uncomfortable, I do say that is where they can see me again. I'm okay with the idea of this being it. I always say that heaven is what is around me. A newborn baby is a piece of heaven, a twinkle of love in someone's eye is a bit of heaven. It's good for people to have something in life to believe in. Definitely doesn't cause harm. People need to have something to look forward to to keep hope alive in life and in death.

peterz54's picture
peterz54
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everyone needs hope...

thingy45's picture
thingy45
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Please read the book... Heaven is for real By Todd Burpo
A little boys astounding story of his trip to heaven and back
A REAL story .
After reading it then decide if you believe or not.

wolfen's picture
wolfen
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There is a religion known as the No-Hellers. It is a family of churches with the Primitive Baptist Association found in the Appalachians. Their belief is that there is no Hell following death, only Heaven, and that this is Hell on earth. My father-in-law was a preacher of this religion. Both he and my mother-in-law suffered horrible deaths. He died with prostate cancer and black lung. She died after falling in the back yard and becoming an instant quadriplegic. I certainly hope their belief is true as far as Heaven goes for both their sakes and for the sake of so many here that believe. I also believe that this is Hell on earth. I'm just not sure about Heaven. Very interesting discussion.

Luv,

Wolfen

jjaj133's picture
jjaj133
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Wolfen,
how terrible for your parents. I don't think there is a hell. of heaven, I am pretty sure. When i stood at my my late husbands coffin, i was shaking so badly, i thought I cant do this, I need your help God. i immediately felt a veil of calm come over me. I felt it physically and emotionally. I was able to say that last goodbye. I can still recall how it felt. An amazing experience that I will never forget.
A very interesting topic for sure.
Hugs,
Judy

Doc_Hawk's picture
Doc_Hawk
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The funny thing about Hell is that the Bible says very little about it. We "know" more about it from poets like Milton and Dante than we do from prophets. As I said in an earlier post, I've been in Hell for five years and it would only take one word to bring me out of it.

Ever since first reading Paradise Lost, I've developed the theory that the reason why the devil has so many names is because it's different fallen angels whose punishment is to rule over Hell. Being Angels (albeit fallen ones) it causes them anguish to see the suffering which they have caused until they ask God for forgiveness. Each member of that fallen host must take its turn serving as "the devil" and finally repenting.

Just my own theory on it, nothing more.

danker
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Joined: Apr 2012

A humorous coincidence about JOHN MILTON-He was married when he wrote PARADISE LOST, and unmarried when he wrote
PARADSIE REGAINED. LOL

Doc_Hawk's picture
Doc_Hawk
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Yeah, he wrote Paradise Regained soon after he was divorced. Guess he didn't have alimony payments!

Helen321's picture
Helen321
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lol Good one Dankder!

Annabelle41415's picture
Annabelle41415
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That book (Heaven is for real) will really put your thoughts into perspective. It's a quick read too, but once you start you won't want to put it down.

Kim

dmj101's picture
dmj101
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he was the child who said I don't care really if you believe me I know what i experienced..
he is the child of the preacher..

Sonia32's picture
Sonia32
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Joined: Mar 2009

Or for some of you another place after life. My Christian beliefs have been taught to me from an early age, especially by my mum. She would tell me stories of how her mum who had passed would visit her brother to warn him he was in trouble, which he was. Then my mum nearly dying in 2000, and she said she dreamt she was in a beautiful garden, with her brother. Her brother who had passed on said to them both it's not your time yet, and pushed them both out. My mum passed in 2007, and my uncle 2011. Then my mum coming to see me in my dreams, telling me stuff about my dad secretly getting married, no one believed me, and he did, boy did no one talk to me for a while after thinking I was lying and knew.
Then she comes warning me if my pets are going to be ill, things like that. My sister who was skeptical believes me. Strangest thing, I was told off the other day by my Christian friend over 50 shades of grey. The following night mum came to see me as did lisa42, but she was younger with permed hair, they were telling me to behave as well lol.

Anyway there is something out there, there has to be something in all those stories of coming back from the dead, it's not all just deprived of oxygen as skeptics would say.

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