HEAVEN
Comments
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Wowpeterz54 said:non-believer
have been a non-believer since a child and grown to accept that many people, good people and bad, hold many beliefs about this concept of an after-life and about gods. what counts to me is how we live our lives now. How we treat one another and other aware beings on this planet.
I have three children, and a wife who will likely not live out the year. It would be nice to think their essense will persist in some way after they pass - something I wish for all good people, but none of it rings true.
What inspires me is how people hold up and try to make a life and do the right thing in the here and now, often under dire circumstances, and it's all the more inspiring when I know they know this is all we have.
That is the most simplest explanation of a non-believer, or agnostic (thinking that is the right term that I've heard). You have put it in such a simple term that even me, as a Christian, can understand where you are coming from. Even though praying the Rosary every day, praying and novenas for this group on a daily basis I've come to accept that and acknowledge that we all have different beliefs and this is part of life. Just love this group for who they are and not how they live or think. I've not known that your wife and children are suffering and I'm sorry for that. We all have our beliefs and although mine is Christian, I'll call you friend even though you don't believe as me. My best wishes for you, your lovely wife and children.0 -
i don't think we have muchjjaj133 said:I agree, Ron . I have read
I agree, Ron . I have read about reincarnation, and that you don't have to come back. One supposedly makes up good karma faster by coming back. Well what is the hurry?? where are they going ? IF this is true, I ain't comin back! no how no way !
J
i don't think we have much say...
my mom used to say my dad walked this earth before.
my brother recently saw a medium and she was telling him his daughter is his soulmate and they have traveled thru time together they are like bff. not at all like father/daughter.
she was trying to explain to him we live in multiple universes. like in the matrix.
I don't know..
I kind of believe in reincarnation.. I just don't know why we don't remember our past lives.
years ago I met a man who had lost his wife that I later found out the same year I was born. and I had a very unusual connection with him it was very weird since he was about 50 when I was about 25... it was like we new each other.. I should mention I first ran into this man a few years earlier in my town looking back at coincidences.. and then the next time I ran into was in NYC at the WTC while visiting a client... we rode the path back to NJ and go figure we were parked next to each other at the part and ride.. and we said goodbye.. about a week later I was in the mall with a friend at a restuarant with a bar having lunch.. and my friend was saying some old man was watching us from the bar.. I looked up and he was approaching me to say "you again" I thought how wierd.. about a month later my mom passes and I was at the cemetary about a week later and there he was again... visiting his wifes grave 2 rows up from my parents.. why was the universe doing this... never did we discuss any of these coincidences.. till about 5 years later when I moved to a new town and knew no one there.. I was running from the ghosts of my family.. well who do i run into again.. this man with his son... who was born to the wife who had died in childbirth at the same hospital I was born.. something kept moving this relationship.. the son and I got along famously and about 2 years later the man died.. the son and I discussed all these coincidences and the man had kept a journal and had a pic of his wife in it.. it was very odd.. we all have twins. and she could have been my sister and this man never told me..though he mentioned it in his journalling several times.. the son and I eventually lost track of each other and occassionally we talk but it is wierd now..
the universe is weird.. were the souls conmected some how of his wife and me .. as the death occurred the day before I was born..0 -
connectionsdmj101 said:i don't think we have much
i don't think we have much say...
my mom used to say my dad walked this earth before.
my brother recently saw a medium and she was telling him his daughter is his soulmate and they have traveled thru time together they are like bff. not at all like father/daughter.
she was trying to explain to him we live in multiple universes. like in the matrix.
I don't know..
I kind of believe in reincarnation.. I just don't know why we don't remember our past lives.
years ago I met a man who had lost his wife that I later found out the same year I was born. and I had a very unusual connection with him it was very weird since he was about 50 when I was about 25... it was like we new each other.. I should mention I first ran into this man a few years earlier in my town looking back at coincidences.. and then the next time I ran into was in NYC at the WTC while visiting a client... we rode the path back to NJ and go figure we were parked next to each other at the part and ride.. and we said goodbye.. about a week later I was in the mall with a friend at a restuarant with a bar having lunch.. and my friend was saying some old man was watching us from the bar.. I looked up and he was approaching me to say "you again" I thought how wierd.. about a month later my mom passes and I was at the cemetary about a week later and there he was again... visiting his wifes grave 2 rows up from my parents.. why was the universe doing this... never did we discuss any of these coincidences.. till about 5 years later when I moved to a new town and knew no one there.. I was running from the ghosts of my family.. well who do i run into again.. this man with his son... who was born to the wife who had died in childbirth at the same hospital I was born.. something kept moving this relationship.. the son and I got along famously and about 2 years later the man died.. the son and I discussed all these coincidences and the man had kept a journal and had a pic of his wife in it.. it was very odd.. we all have twins. and she could have been my sister and this man never told me..though he mentioned it in his journalling several times.. the son and I eventually lost track of each other and occassionally we talk but it is wierd now..
the universe is weird.. were the souls conmected some how of his wife and me .. as the death occurred the day before I was born..
That is pretty wild, Donna. I've never experienced anything like that, but have known people who had. I do fear that reincarnation may be possible and like J if anyway possible I don't want to take this ride again! In your original post, you mentioned how Richard (Gerbil Boy) Gere believes that this life is Heaven. If it is then there must be some seriously bad mojo in my past lives. I've been living in Hell for almost six years now.0 -
The Higgs-Boson Announcement
Has the Higgs-Boson Announcement (to oversimplify it - that something can be created out of nothing) changed anyone's views?
As someone who is interested in many faiths, the theme of an afterlife runs through practically all of them. As do virgin births, a holy trilogy, death & resurrection, obedience, punishment & damnation, eternal salvation (provided you chose the "correct" religion), conversion of those who think differently than those in power (by choosing the "wrong" religion) and much more.
Are the common themes just a coincidence considering there was no way for cultures to communicate with each other over continents? Or is it an example of how mankind has an innate desire to have explanations for everything since science was only as good as the technology available at the time? People tend to worship and/or fear what they don't understand and create stories to explain what they do not understand (prior to Magellan, no one had traveled around the world and came back so therefore the Earth must be flat and the fell off the edge or was eaten by sea serpents - serpents being another common theme)
Could the concept of heaven be something to sooth us when loved ones die and when we are faced with our own mortality?
Could ALL cultures be right and whatever you believe is what happens to you?
Just wondering... Like the question "how do you cure cancer?", there's no right or wrong answer.
Happy Sunday!
:-)
-phil0 -
no right or wrong?PhillieG said:The Higgs-Boson Announcement
Has the Higgs-Boson Announcement (to oversimplify it - that something can be created out of nothing) changed anyone's views?
As someone who is interested in many faiths, the theme of an afterlife runs through practically all of them. As do virgin births, a holy trilogy, death & resurrection, obedience, punishment & damnation, eternal salvation (provided you chose the "correct" religion), conversion of those who think differently than those in power (by choosing the "wrong" religion) and much more.
Are the common themes just a coincidence considering there was no way for cultures to communicate with each other over continents? Or is it an example of how mankind has an innate desire to have explanations for everything since science was only as good as the technology available at the time? People tend to worship and/or fear what they don't understand and create stories to explain what they do not understand (prior to Magellan, no one had traveled around the world and came back so therefore the Earth must be flat and the fell off the edge or was eaten by sea serpents - serpents being another common theme)
Could the concept of heaven be something to sooth us when loved ones die and when we are faced with our own mortality?
Could ALL cultures be right and whatever you believe is what happens to you?
Just wondering... Like the question "how do you cure cancer?", there's no right or wrong answer.
Happy Sunday!
:-)
-phil
mmmm....
but some views are clearly more wrong or right than others
in the search for cancer cures, does anyone here want to jettison the scientific method, the use of reason, which in their best form are self-correcting, and put guesswork and anecdotal stories in their place...I would hope not, or why go to doctors and rely on research?
more broadly, it should be fairly clear that humans tend to adopt the beliefs and traditions of the culture into which they were born and raised, and those beliefs are generally not challenged by most people in any rigorous way. They go with the flow. Otherwise how to explain the high probability of becoming a muslim if born into a muslim society. likewise for christians, hindus, and so on.0 -
You've got that right!peterz54 said:no right or wrong?
mmmm....
but some views are clearly more wrong or right than others
in the search for cancer cures, does anyone here want to jettison the scientific method, the use of reason, which in their best form are self-correcting, and put guesswork and anecdotal stories in their place...I would hope not, or why go to doctors and rely on research?
more broadly, it should be fairly clear that humans tend to adopt the beliefs and traditions of the culture into which they were born and raised, and those beliefs are generally not challenged by most people in any rigorous way. They go with the flow. Otherwise how to explain the high probability of becoming a muslim if born into a muslim society. likewise for christians, hindus, and so on.
Some are more right than others... It depends on who you hang with :-)
With cancer, I tend to prefer treatments that have some science behind them. But that's me.
I agree that many belong to whatever religion/culture they are born into.
Going with the flow! No one likes troublemakers :-)
I personally think its good to question one's faith at some point to see if it truely is your belief.
It can wind up strengthening your faith or open up other possibilities.0 -
Hey Doc, my dad alwaysDoc_Hawk said:connections
That is pretty wild, Donna. I've never experienced anything like that, but have known people who had. I do fear that reincarnation may be possible and like J if anyway possible I don't want to take this ride again! In your original post, you mentioned how Richard (Gerbil Boy) Gere believes that this life is Heaven. If it is then there must be some seriously bad mojo in my past lives. I've been living in Hell for almost six years now.
Hey Doc, my dad always said," this is hell, anything else has to be better." At the time I thought he was just a bitter man, now i kinda get it. : (0 -
An unexamined life...PhillieG said:You've got that right!
Some are more right than others... It depends on who you hang with :-)
With cancer, I tend to prefer treatments that have some science behind them. But that's me.
I agree that many belong to whatever religion/culture they are born into.
Going with the flow! No one likes troublemakers :-)
I personally think its good to question one's faith at some point to see if it truely is your belief.
It can wind up strengthening your faith or open up other possibilities.
Much like Socrates stating "an unexamined life is not worth living," I believe you have to question your faith. Understanding what you believe and why you believe it. It ultimately comes down to faith because much of what we believe in regards to our spiritual life is unprovable. That's part of what makes it fascinating. I'm a Catholic, born and raised, and I'm comfortable with the teachings of the Church. But from a broader perspective, I simply can't believe that all of this is random. The human form and function, ability to think and reason (well, sometimes) and to be able to contemplate these very subjects. I'm humbled by the vastness of time and space, and how any of this could have just "happened" without a higher power. How do you wrap your mind around eternity? I'm in no hurry to get these answers, but I wonder if we'll get the answers to all the big questions when we die, you know, like where Jiimmy Hoffa is buried...;-)
Dan0 -
i am mot sure.. I have theDoc_Hawk said:connections
That is pretty wild, Donna. I've never experienced anything like that, but have known people who had. I do fear that reincarnation may be possible and like J if anyway possible I don't want to take this ride again! In your original post, you mentioned how Richard (Gerbil Boy) Gere believes that this life is Heaven. If it is then there must be some seriously bad mojo in my past lives. I've been living in Hell for almost six years now.
i am mot sure.. I have the idea and I must have picked it up somewhere but I don't think it ia bible topic..
if you suffer in one life the next is more pleasant..
I am hoping that is the case..
Judy wrote in the next posting that her father always said this is Hell..
I have heard that too.
you know we are avoiding that maybe this is purgatory and we are traveling thru the levels of purgatory to reach heaven.
I would have to think if this was true. we must be pretty low in the levels and more is coming.. but who knows..
The Myans say the world ends this Decemeber. so lets see where we are in January 20130 -
our minds clearly have limitsJayhawkDan said:An unexamined life...
Much like Socrates stating "an unexamined life is not worth living," I believe you have to question your faith. Understanding what you believe and why you believe it. It ultimately comes down to faith because much of what we believe in regards to our spiritual life is unprovable. That's part of what makes it fascinating. I'm a Catholic, born and raised, and I'm comfortable with the teachings of the Church. But from a broader perspective, I simply can't believe that all of this is random. The human form and function, ability to think and reason (well, sometimes) and to be able to contemplate these very subjects. I'm humbled by the vastness of time and space, and how any of this could have just "happened" without a higher power. How do you wrap your mind around eternity? I'm in no hurry to get these answers, but I wonder if we'll get the answers to all the big questions when we die, you know, like where Jiimmy Hoffa is buried...;-)
Dan
and are subject to many biases we usually are not aware of, including the cultural bias I mentioned earlier, and in my view, we are also subject to the bias of thinking we have a special place in nature which fuels many of the creation stories which have us as a central focus.
Grapling with concepts like infinity, existence, etc. illustrate our ignorance and limited ability to comprehend, but that does not stop our species from trying to understand and explain, or stop us from accepting bad explanations rather than just admitting we don't know.
As for random vs higher power, I don't see how the absence of gods means the universe is random, or the presence of gods means it isn't random. gods would have to come from somewhere as well by the same reasoning. from what we can observe, we do not live in a random universe, but one clearly governed by laws of nature. The processes that guided the development of you and I from a fertilized egg to a human being are not random, the same developmental process occurs every time. Why can't we say the same for each level of nature going backwards in time (time being another possible human construct)?
If we were able to prove, by way of logic and evidence, an intelligence is behind, or entwined within, nature there is still a long way to go to connect that intelligence with the gods of our creation stories.
For me it works just to accept that we will never know where all of this originated, and also to believe that the universe always existed (maybe a bias on my part as a starting point makes no sense to me), while at the same time appreciating our unfolding understanding of the world and ourselves.
well, enough on this..have gone far afield of why I am on this site and really don't want to come across as if I am going out of my way to insult anyone. I know I'm in a minority and am ok with that..
back to my wife's cancer...0 -
Higgs-BosenPhillieG said:The Higgs-Boson Announcement
Has the Higgs-Boson Announcement (to oversimplify it - that something can be created out of nothing) changed anyone's views?
As someone who is interested in many faiths, the theme of an afterlife runs through practically all of them. As do virgin births, a holy trilogy, death & resurrection, obedience, punishment & damnation, eternal salvation (provided you chose the "correct" religion), conversion of those who think differently than those in power (by choosing the "wrong" religion) and much more.
Are the common themes just a coincidence considering there was no way for cultures to communicate with each other over continents? Or is it an example of how mankind has an innate desire to have explanations for everything since science was only as good as the technology available at the time? People tend to worship and/or fear what they don't understand and create stories to explain what they do not understand (prior to Magellan, no one had traveled around the world and came back so therefore the Earth must be flat and the fell off the edge or was eaten by sea serpents - serpents being another common theme)
Could the concept of heaven be something to sooth us when loved ones die and when we are faced with our own mortality?
Could ALL cultures be right and whatever you believe is what happens to you?
Just wondering... Like the question "how do you cure cancer?", there's no right or wrong answer.
Happy Sunday!
:-)
-phil
The announcement of the Higgs-Bosen has only strengthened my belief in God and an Aftelife. Contrary to what some people may believe about a Supreme Being, it is my belief that He is not some kind of magician who can do the impossible by blinking His eyes of wiggling His nose. He must follow the Physical Laws of the Universe and the H-B is only the last which has been discovered. There's a mathematician (cannot recall his name right now) who is working on a formula which may show that there is an active intelligence guiding the Universe. To me, this would be the mind of God providing order where, according to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, there should only be chaos. This Law, simply stated, says that the natural tendency in a closed system is to spiral into disorder. And yet the Universe is a very ordered and well structured place. Also, from models based on the four natural forces, the currently believed physical structure of the Universe strongly resembles the neural patterns that we see inside a brain. For me, all of these prove beyond a doubt that there is a Higher Order of Intelligence that guides the Universe.0 -
HeavenDoc_Hawk said:Higgs-Bosen
The announcement of the Higgs-Bosen has only strengthened my belief in God and an Aftelife. Contrary to what some people may believe about a Supreme Being, it is my belief that He is not some kind of magician who can do the impossible by blinking His eyes of wiggling His nose. He must follow the Physical Laws of the Universe and the H-B is only the last which has been discovered. There's a mathematician (cannot recall his name right now) who is working on a formula which may show that there is an active intelligence guiding the Universe. To me, this would be the mind of God providing order where, according to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, there should only be chaos. This Law, simply stated, says that the natural tendency in a closed system is to spiral into disorder. And yet the Universe is a very ordered and well structured place. Also, from models based on the four natural forces, the currently believed physical structure of the Universe strongly resembles the neural patterns that we see inside a brain. For me, all of these prove beyond a doubt that there is a Higher Order of Intelligence that guides the Universe.
I believe in God. Without the comfort of having Him in my life, I would not be able to handle having cancer. I so not want to die and I am in no rush to get to Heaven however it's nice knowing there is a place of love waiting for me. I have friends that believe and friends that do not and all of that us okay with me. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone. It'll each his own. The one fact we can all agree on is that we are all here now and I just wish people would treat others better and there was no suffering, hungry babies or homeless people. I know that even my friends that do not believe in God still humbly acknowledge when I prayer for them... Just in case I am right.
Big hug my friends
Vicki0 -
I don't believe in an
I don't believe in an afterlife but my family does and so as not to make them uncomfortable, I do say that is where they can see me again. I'm okay with the idea of this being it. I always say that heaven is what is around me. A newborn baby is a piece of heaven, a twinkle of love in someone's eye is a bit of heaven. It's good for people to have something in life to believe in. Definitely doesn't cause harm. People need to have something to look forward to to keep hope alive in life and in death.0 -
yesHelen321 said:I don't believe in an
I don't believe in an afterlife but my family does and so as not to make them uncomfortable, I do say that is where they can see me again. I'm okay with the idea of this being it. I always say that heaven is what is around me. A newborn baby is a piece of heaven, a twinkle of love in someone's eye is a bit of heaven. It's good for people to have something in life to believe in. Definitely doesn't cause harm. People need to have something to look forward to to keep hope alive in life and in death.
everyone needs hope...0 -
Believe it or notVickilg said:Heaven
I believe in God. Without the comfort of having Him in my life, I would not be able to handle having cancer. I so not want to die and I am in no rush to get to Heaven however it's nice knowing there is a place of love waiting for me. I have friends that believe and friends that do not and all of that us okay with me. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone. It'll each his own. The one fact we can all agree on is that we are all here now and I just wish people would treat others better and there was no suffering, hungry babies or homeless people. I know that even my friends that do not believe in God still humbly acknowledge when I prayer for them... Just in case I am right.
Big hug my friends
Vicki
I need to confess that I have questioned my beliefs; my re-currence of cancer has depressed me to the point of questioning existance of God. Yet I am praying for that mustard seed of faith, so it can grow again and once more comfort me. On one hand I have seen that I am protected (by having caught it early) and yet also feel abandoned because it keeps coming back.
This is a strange venue to be discussing beliefs instead of cancer; but how much better to be thinking about beliefs rather than cancer, at least for me, for a little while.
Thank you dmj101 for starting this thread. I found everyone's comments enlightening and food for thought, and I thank you all.0 -
an unexamined life is not worth living...JayhawkDan said:An unexamined life...
Much like Socrates stating "an unexamined life is not worth living," I believe you have to question your faith. Understanding what you believe and why you believe it. It ultimately comes down to faith because much of what we believe in regards to our spiritual life is unprovable. That's part of what makes it fascinating. I'm a Catholic, born and raised, and I'm comfortable with the teachings of the Church. But from a broader perspective, I simply can't believe that all of this is random. The human form and function, ability to think and reason (well, sometimes) and to be able to contemplate these very subjects. I'm humbled by the vastness of time and space, and how any of this could have just "happened" without a higher power. How do you wrap your mind around eternity? I'm in no hurry to get these answers, but I wonder if we'll get the answers to all the big questions when we die, you know, like where Jiimmy Hoffa is buried...;-)
Dan
But would you agree that one can examine their life without believing in a God or following a religion? Does questioning our existence and whether there is a point to it all have to include faith? I was raised catholic (did 8 years of catholic school too) but questioned their teachings early on. For many reasons it didn't make sense to me. That doesn't make it true or untrue, it just didn't ring true for me.
I do believe in evolution and natural selection. I also believe that there is SO much that we are not capable of understanding and possibly we may learn more about ourselves and our universe. We're limited in many ways even though we rule the Earth now. Dinosaurs (if one believes they existed hundreds of millions of years ago) had their run of the planet for a very long time until they were likely taken out by an asteroid. I have little doubt that at some point, Mother Earth will shake us off her like a wet dog dries itself.
The recent Higgs-Boson discovery shows that something can appear out of nothing. It's difficult to wrap my brain around that as well as infinity, parallel universes, and why anyone cares about the Kardashians!
Religion as well as science are both facinating subjects. I think that both try to help us figure out why we're here but approach the question differently.
The last I heard he was at the 50 yard line at the Meadowlands...0 -
Judy(jjaj)thingy45 said:Please read the book... Heaven is for real By Todd Burpo
A little boys astounding story of his trip to heaven and back
A REAL story .
After reading it then decide if you believe or not.
There is a religion known as the No-Hellers. It is a family of churches with the Primitive Baptist Association found in the Appalachians. Their belief is that there is no Hell following death, only Heaven, and that this is Hell on earth. My father-in-law was a preacher of this religion. Both he and my mother-in-law suffered horrible deaths. He died with prostate cancer and black lung. She died after falling in the back yard and becoming an instant quadriplegic. I certainly hope their belief is true as far as Heaven goes for both their sakes and for the sake of so many here that believe. I also believe that this is Hell on earth. I'm just not sure about Heaven. Very interesting discussion.
Luv,
Wolfen0 -
a unverse from nothingPhillieG said:an unexamined life is not worth living...
But would you agree that one can examine their life without believing in a God or following a religion? Does questioning our existence and whether there is a point to it all have to include faith? I was raised catholic (did 8 years of catholic school too) but questioned their teachings early on. For many reasons it didn't make sense to me. That doesn't make it true or untrue, it just didn't ring true for me.
I do believe in evolution and natural selection. I also believe that there is SO much that we are not capable of understanding and possibly we may learn more about ourselves and our universe. We're limited in many ways even though we rule the Earth now. Dinosaurs (if one believes they existed hundreds of millions of years ago) had their run of the planet for a very long time until they were likely taken out by an asteroid. I have little doubt that at some point, Mother Earth will shake us off her like a wet dog dries itself.
The recent Higgs-Boson discovery shows that something can appear out of nothing. It's difficult to wrap my brain around that as well as infinity, parallel universes, and why anyone cares about the Kardashians!
Religion as well as science are both facinating subjects. I think that both try to help us figure out why we're here but approach the question differently.
The last I heard he was at the 50 yard line at the Meadowlands...
Lawrence Krauss lecture
A universe from nothing0
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