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FYI - a web conference from Sloan Kettering on Complementary Therapies & Cancer

abrub's picture
abrub
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mar 2010

November 17 at 6:00pm EST – click here to submit your questions
Do Complementary Therapies Work?
Barrie Cassileth, PhD,
Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center and Author of “The Complete Guide to Complementary Therapies in Cancer Care”

http://news.cancerconnect.com/do-complementary-therapies-work-ask-the-expert-about-herbs-acupuncture-and-other-complementary-therapies/

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 1292
Joined: Oct 2010

Didn't look like too many showed up. I looked at her chapter on vitamins in her 2011 book. It is recycled from her 1999 book with 1960s-70s AMA-ACS-QW anti-nutrient cant that has been quietly discarded by many, not information that bears resemblance to current scientific and medical literature that I read. I found her coverage of vitamin D from quaint to misleading to off-topic without meaningful address of known colorectal cancer deficiencies.

I would look for advanced therapeutic nutrient information elsewhere than from a PhD sociologist with long known misstatements. I have previously perceived MSK as hostile to new, inexpensive, generic approaches outside MSK's collection box, including effective therapeutic nutrition. Barrie's presence and published comments reinforce that perception. Perhaps MSK considers therapeutic nutrition as a sociological phenomenon or a psychological problem. Her statements don't seem to distinguish well between "big gun" and "hired gun".

abrub's picture
abrub
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mar 2010

However, I am working directly with one of the MDs in Integrative Medicine who has me on 10,000 iu D3/day; Milk Thistle 300 mg/ twice/day, CoQ10 (200 mg), Super Coriolus (PSK) (3000 mg/day). She's working with me to use supplements to address some of my residual issues, and seems excellent.

On the other hand, any of us who have done any research knew more than was discussed in the talk. I was hoping for some information, but got nothing out of it.

sdp's picture
sdp
Posts: 181
Joined: Jan 2012

Hi,

Pl let me know where to obtain the PSK

Sdp

have2believe
Posts: 135
Joined: Dec 2010

Just look up Coriolus Versicolor Super Strength, 600 mg.

RickMurtagh's picture
RickMurtagh
Posts: 584
Joined: Feb 2010

I was away in Colorado for the week so I missed it. I think it would have been well worth the $21 train ticket into the city just to be able to "dialogue."

abrub's picture
abrub
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mar 2010

http://cancerconnect.com/dr-cassileth-webchat/ It doesn't include the Q&A (but my link disconnected at the Q&A, so I never heard it.)

For those of us who have some knowledge of the complementary treatments, there was very little new information. However, if you have 20 minutes, you may want to watch it.

Alice

janie1
Posts: 753
Joined: Apr 2011

Alice, I agree, nothing earth-shaking. But I was surprised she was very positive on the " mushroom" extract (super corelis???), I think. And did she recommend it "during" chemo? I hate to re-watch it, but I might.

abrub's picture
abrub
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mar 2010

Dr. Wesa was very specific re the mushroom supplement - that it be the Mushroom Science Super Coriolus 600 gm (the PSK variety, not the PSP). She had me start at 600 mg twice a day for a week, then 1200 mg twice a day for a week. The third week, I added the 3rd capsule to my morning dose, as her goal for me was 3000 mg/day.

So far, the cheapest source (tho still expensive at $54/bottle of 90) is amazon.com.

I don't remember if they mentioned it during chemo - you can send an email and ask.

John23's picture
John23
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007

Trametes versicolor (Coriolus) in capsules, is sold in many
on-line shops (and locally to me), for one half that price, and lower.

In fact, the raw, untreated mushroom is the least expensive,
and you can see what you are buying, whereas the powdered
ones can be part filler....

Just sayin'...

My best to you,

John

-----------------------------------------
What's a mushroom by any other name?

Trametes versicolor
Coriolus versicolor (Nees ex Fr.) Quel.
Coriolus zonztus
Polyporus versicolor
kawaratake カワラタケ(瓦茸)
Multicolored polypore ,Turkey Tails

All one and the same!
----------------------------------------

abrub's picture
abrub
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mar 2010

There are other versicolors out there that are not the PSK variety, which is the one that has been tested on colorectal cancers. While my dr does not specify any other sources for my recommended supplements, she feels very strongly about the Super Coriolus PSK, and that the Milk Thistle be from Jarrows. She has no financial interest in either of these, but her experience has shown that these do contain what they are supposed to.

Hence, while I'd love to save, I'm sticking with my dr's advice as long as I can afford it.

have2believe
Posts: 135
Joined: Dec 2010

Hi,
I was just wondering if you took psk while you were on treatment. If I recall correctly, I believe Sloan integrative medicine specialists like Dr. Wesa only treat you when you're off treatment. Do you know if this is true?

abrub's picture
abrub
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mar 2010

and he advised me on supplements, tho I never saw him. It's worth an email to them to find out. I know that the posted videos on botanicals and supplements does refer to those that may be taken during chemo as well.

My recommendation is to send an email to Gary Deng or Kathleen Wesa, and ask your questions of the experts. PM me for email contact info for them.

Alice

John23's picture
John23
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007

By now, you must know just how much I advocate TCM, and
many "alternatives", so please don't misunderstand my point?

TheCoriolus versicolor mushroom (all it's alternative names
are listed above) contains -both- PSP and PSK, and -both-
help the immune system fight cancer.

The biggest problem with "alternatives" and the alternative
science industry, is that it's become a money pit, just as
western medicine has (as our "Buckwirth" kindly takes time
to point out).

In TCM, the mushroom is decocted (cooked in water) to
release the substances, and the liquid is ingested, with the
patient getting the entire mix of psp, psk, etc. Extra herbs
and substances are added to the decoction to direct the
solution to specific organs.

As with many of the herbs used, they are best used in the
form they have been used, for thousands of years. Many of
the herbs and herbal compounds must be used with other
herbs to get the effect required. Boiling and drinking the total
solution of many herbs will result with what is expected from
years of trial and error. Separating the components of an
herb's basic structure, may not result with anything of value.

The first two herbs on my list at the "blog" must be used together
in the amounts specified. If only one or the other is used, then
one should not expect to see any favorable results. Merck is
presently studying one of those two herbs for it's value against
cancer. Do not expect to read that anything of value had been
found! Perhaps they simply desire to spend millions to denounce
an inexpensive alternative to their products? The herb will not
do much alone......

Please don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say?

The Coriolus Versicolor mushroom species has great merit
for building the immune system, as well as fighting cancer cells
(as does many other mushroom species). But companies charging
exorbitant amounts for "special products" when you can buy
the exact same thing for pennies on their ten-spots, is something
I have great distaste for.

If spending the cash isn't a problem, and what you are buying
is giving you more hope than doing otherwise, continue!

But for others (me included) that look at their bank accounts
with the understanding that Medicare and other insurance will
pay for the exorbitant amounts that western medicine facilities
charge, but for anything else.... it will cost dearly "out-of-pocket",
the chance to survive can be offset by the costs of doing other
than "mainstream".

What I would like to clarify for those that wish to try the "alternative"
methods, is that the same "products" derived from herbs can be
bought for $6, rather than $60. There is no substantial difference,
with exception for the hyperbole of the industry's ads.

It's very difficult to promote an inexpensive, yet worthwhile
foreign modality, when the industry is promoting themselves.

Please continue to do what works for you! My words are not
meant to take that away, only to help and encourage others
not to lose hope for any alternative.

Relative links:
Chinese Herb Dictionary

Mushroom Studies

Be well!

John

abrub's picture
abrub
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mar 2010

John, I appreciate your input, and know you are very knowledgeable on TCM. I'm working with the alternatives within my comfort zone, but if I couldn't afford the recommended supplements, I would definitely be looking to find less expensive equivalents. Part of what I'm working with are the specific dosages studied by MSK and related Integrative medicine groups.

Again, it's a matter of personal comfort zones. Your information and knowledge is always appreciated.

I hope you're having a good ThanksgivingQ

Alice

RickMurtagh's picture
RickMurtagh
Posts: 584
Joined: Feb 2010

So it was just a web chat. The flyer at MSKCC made it sound like people would be able to participate in the "live" chat at MSKCC. She was just sitting in her office. Twenty plus minutes long - hardly time to be authoritative. I stopped listening after a few minutes. I have read stuff hat gets to the point quicker and seemed more authoritative, but I have not compared credentials to determine comparative worth of the authors - at least speaking in terms of credentials.

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