Colon Cancer Treatments and Decisions

2

Comments

  • geotina
    geotina Member Posts: 2,111 Member
    scouty said:

    Of course they are going to say that
    The maker of Avastin is trying to get it approved for all sorts of blood vessels type things like mascular degeneration, etc. so they are going to say anything to make that happen. It's all about money.

    FYI, the definition of a chemotherapeutic drugs is:

    "Any CHEMICAL used to treat cancer. It is usually used to refer to antineoplastic drugs."

    Another definition of a non-biased website is:

    "Bevacizumab (trade name Avastin, Genentech/Roche) is a drug that blocks angiogenesis, the growth of new blood vessels. It is used to treat various cancers, including colorectal, lung, and kidney cancer, and eye disease."

    Sorry but in regards to CRC treatments, it is definitely a chemo drug with it's own list of side effects.

    I'm curious as to why you being told it is not a chemo drug is so important to you Winter Marie.

    Lisa P.

    Avastin
    I was also told that Avastin is not a chemotherapy drug. Went on the web site and same thing stated. Never questioned it much. To us it really doesn't matter, it worked and continues to work for George.

    Take care - Tina
  • tootsie1
    tootsie1 Member Posts: 5,044 Member
    Hi!
    Hi, Tom.

    I was diagnosed at Stage 1, so posts like yours are of special interest to me. It's been about 3 1/2 years since my diagnosis and surgery. I've been "clean" until my recent colonoscopy in May. They found 1 polyp, which was determined to be benign. That worried me enough. I think if I knew they had found as many as you have, I'd be definitely thinking of getting them OUT.

    *Hugs*
    Gail
  • Kenny H.
    Kenny H. Member Posts: 502 Member
    tootsie1 said:

    Hi!
    Hi, Tom.

    I was diagnosed at Stage 1, so posts like yours are of special interest to me. It's been about 3 1/2 years since my diagnosis and surgery. I've been "clean" until my recent colonoscopy in May. They found 1 polyp, which was determined to be benign. That worried me enough. I think if I knew they had found as many as you have, I'd be definitely thinking of getting them OUT.

    *Hugs*
    Gail

    Id go all out against it
    Id go all out against it (age)....Chemo not as bad considering. Dealing with neuropathy but rather that than other results without.
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member
    tom b -
    I haven't read all the posts that followed your initial question,
    and started typing this immediately. If there's redundancy,
    please excusa' mea'....

    With colon cancer, it can traverse the colon, and do so undetected.

    If you're concerned with having an Ileostomy, you have a right to
    be concerned.

    I have had an Ileostomy since 2006. The first six months were
    a horror show. But once I took matters into my own hands, and
    did what was best for me, things got better very fast.

    Servicing an Ileostomy is easier than you can imagine. The ostomy
    appliance needn't be obtrusive or a handicap to your sex life.

    If what you're concerned with, is having an ostomy, please provide
    more information. There are very important first steps to take
    prior to surgery, to insure the stoma will be placed properly.

    Help is here!

    Best of health,

    John
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624 Member
    scouty said:

    Of course they are going to say that
    The maker of Avastin is trying to get it approved for all sorts of blood vessels type things like mascular degeneration, etc. so they are going to say anything to make that happen. It's all about money.

    FYI, the definition of a chemotherapeutic drugs is:

    "Any CHEMICAL used to treat cancer. It is usually used to refer to antineoplastic drugs."

    Another definition of a non-biased website is:

    "Bevacizumab (trade name Avastin, Genentech/Roche) is a drug that blocks angiogenesis, the growth of new blood vessels. It is used to treat various cancers, including colorectal, lung, and kidney cancer, and eye disease."

    Sorry but in regards to CRC treatments, it is definitely a chemo drug with it's own list of side effects.

    I'm curious as to why you being told it is not a chemo drug is so important to you Winter Marie.

    Lisa P.

    Lisa
    Believe what you want Lisa, heck it isn't worth arguing over. I know what my onc nurses and onc told me, then looked it up on the web for YOU, and who said it was SO IMPORTANT TO ME whether it's chemo or not??? I mentioned it in passing and then you gave a paragraph, with my name in the SUBJECT line, stating how it was chemo and questioning me as to why I didn't know that. So I simply looked up why it wasn't chemo in order for YOU to understand why I said it wasn't a chemo, YOU ASKED me a question. That simple. I answered, my apologies for doing so, apparently it wasn't what you wanted to hear. Again I apologize for answering your question to me. Not getting in an argument. Also, it was my oncologist and the oncology nurses that INFORMED ME when I mentioned it as a chemo, that it wasn't, and I TRUST MY oncologist, I like him, I think he is honest.
    BUT if you really insist in wanting to know why I do differentiate between chemo and non-chemo? I CAN'T afford both the chemo Xeloda and the cell starving drug Avastin, so I have to give up one of them, I'm giving up the Avastin as I hadn't been able to afford the chemo Xeloda the past two cycles. Does it make you feel better to know that I have to make a choice of what drug to take because I don't bring in enough money? Should I ask everyone for opinions of which one to give up, or can I just state in a conversation with someone else that I'm stopping the drug that isn't chemo without mentioning ALL factors as to why (one being muscle pain from Avastin, two being I'm too poor)? Apparently not.
    Winter Marie
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624 Member
    scouty said:

    Winter Marie
    When did Avastin stop being a chemotheraphy drug? It certainly was when I got it, it was just referred to as a targeted chemo drug that could tell the difference between a cancer cell and a healthy cell versus many of the other chemo drugs that can't.

    Just curious, I've never heard anyone say it was not chemo.

    Targeted cell and non targeted cell
    It actually doesn't target the cell, it targets a protein (VGEF) that allows the blood vessels to grow which support the growth of a tumor (tumors produce an inordinate amount of VGEF, however normal cells also produce VGEF but not near as much)so it really doesn't know what a good cell is versus a bad (cancer) cell, it's just not allowing a growth spurt of blood vessels (good or bad)to feed the tumor via targeting the VGEF.
  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member
    geotina said:

    Avastin
    I was also told that Avastin is not a chemotherapy drug. Went on the web site and same thing stated. Never questioned it much. To us it really doesn't matter, it worked and continues to work for George.

    Take care - Tina

    whatever
    If US doctors want to define "chemo" as cytotoxics, fine. Other researchers have used various non toxic adjuvants (e.g. cimetidine and PSK) and called their treatments immunochemotherapy.

    Personally, we seem to be getting more mileage from light chemo cocktails with high dose nutrients inhibiting the same, related and more pathways as Avastin etc.
  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member
    alternate views
    Life Extension Foundation has lengthy articles on colorectal cancer promoting a non-toxic approach.

    We incorporated their views with others, at an even broader and higher dose nutrient schedule, for advanced colon cancer in my wife's case, along with a light immunochemotherapy cocktail that has had the surgeons scratching their heads over unusual improvement instead of deterioration.
  • jjaj133
    jjaj133 Member Posts: 867 Member
    Hi Tom, sorry you have to be
    Hi Tom, sorry you have to be here but welcome. There is a lot of experience here, take what you learn from others and really think about it.
    65! so many more years to go. I am going to be 66 soon and fully plan to celebrate my 80th birthday.
    If you read my profile, you will see that i have had surgery,no chemo, surgery chemo and now surgery with chemo again. I had one cancerous polyp in the colon. and am still fighting. I had 5 years NED before it came back in the liver. Just had a 2nd liver resection and will be doing chemo in pill form for 6 months. It is doable. I have a friend who has 50-60 polyps removed all the time. so far none have been malignant. Wait til the results come back. Then make the decision. Get a second opinion. Please, weigh all your options. Not only for yourself, but for your family.
    Good Luck, I hope the test results are good.
    Judy
  • RickMurtagh
    RickMurtagh Member Posts: 587 Member
    ouch
    I had two huge tumors and many polyps. I went through chemo and radiation, had my entire colon removed and had more chemo. I now have a permanent ileostomy, but I would ay my quality of life right now is pretty darn good. In fact so good I am beginning to train for a triathlon sometime around fall 2012 to celebrate living. I suppose it depends greatly what you would qualify as having a good life.

    The reason I had the whole colon removed, etc. was my polyps had a tendency to become cancerous and I did not want to chase cancer my entire life. My dx was 2009 and at the moment I am glad I made the decisions I had. Other than the whole cancer thing, I have always enjoyed pretty darn good health. Don't you wish you could look into a crystal ball and know for sure? I hope your crystal ball gazers (fiends, doctors and assorted other inputs) give you the data you need to make a decision you will be happy with, regardless of the eventual outcome.

    Sounds like if you chose to leave things as they are you would just have to be diligent in checking on your health (blood tests, colonoscopies, etc.), which you would have to do even if you chose a more radical approach, like I did. There are plenty of people here with success stories that did not involve much more than taking care of what was minimally required and then paid beter attention to their diet (most of us tend to, right?). We have lost good peeps here on both sides of the treatment fence. Cancer just sucks the life out of you.

    Best wishes
    Rick

    I am currently 51.
  • SisterSledge
    SisterSledge Member Posts: 332 Member

    Lisa
    Believe what you want Lisa, heck it isn't worth arguing over. I know what my onc nurses and onc told me, then looked it up on the web for YOU, and who said it was SO IMPORTANT TO ME whether it's chemo or not??? I mentioned it in passing and then you gave a paragraph, with my name in the SUBJECT line, stating how it was chemo and questioning me as to why I didn't know that. So I simply looked up why it wasn't chemo in order for YOU to understand why I said it wasn't a chemo, YOU ASKED me a question. That simple. I answered, my apologies for doing so, apparently it wasn't what you wanted to hear. Again I apologize for answering your question to me. Not getting in an argument. Also, it was my oncologist and the oncology nurses that INFORMED ME when I mentioned it as a chemo, that it wasn't, and I TRUST MY oncologist, I like him, I think he is honest.
    BUT if you really insist in wanting to know why I do differentiate between chemo and non-chemo? I CAN'T afford both the chemo Xeloda and the cell starving drug Avastin, so I have to give up one of them, I'm giving up the Avastin as I hadn't been able to afford the chemo Xeloda the past two cycles. Does it make you feel better to know that I have to make a choice of what drug to take because I don't bring in enough money? Should I ask everyone for opinions of which one to give up, or can I just state in a conversation with someone else that I'm stopping the drug that isn't chemo without mentioning ALL factors as to why (one being muscle pain from Avastin, two being I'm too poor)? Apparently not.
    Winter Marie

    well, Winter Marie
    Glad to see I'm not the only one you get testy with ;-p
    Janine
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624 Member

    well, Winter Marie
    Glad to see I'm not the only one you get testy with ;-p
    Janine

    Unworthy
    of a reply.
  • smokeyjoe
    smokeyjoe Member Posts: 1,425 Member

    ouch
    I had two huge tumors and many polyps. I went through chemo and radiation, had my entire colon removed and had more chemo. I now have a permanent ileostomy, but I would ay my quality of life right now is pretty darn good. In fact so good I am beginning to train for a triathlon sometime around fall 2012 to celebrate living. I suppose it depends greatly what you would qualify as having a good life.

    The reason I had the whole colon removed, etc. was my polyps had a tendency to become cancerous and I did not want to chase cancer my entire life. My dx was 2009 and at the moment I am glad I made the decisions I had. Other than the whole cancer thing, I have always enjoyed pretty darn good health. Don't you wish you could look into a crystal ball and know for sure? I hope your crystal ball gazers (fiends, doctors and assorted other inputs) give you the data you need to make a decision you will be happy with, regardless of the eventual outcome.

    Sounds like if you chose to leave things as they are you would just have to be diligent in checking on your health (blood tests, colonoscopies, etc.), which you would have to do even if you chose a more radical approach, like I did. There are plenty of people here with success stories that did not involve much more than taking care of what was minimally required and then paid beter attention to their diet (most of us tend to, right?). We have lost good peeps here on both sides of the treatment fence. Cancer just sucks the life out of you.

    Best wishes
    Rick

    I am currently 51.

    Rick it sounds like you've
    Rick it sounds like you've recovered from your recent ordeal, training for a triathalon is GREAT!!!! Did they ever figure out what the heck was going on, was it an infection or what???
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member
    tanstaafl said:

    whatever
    If US doctors want to define "chemo" as cytotoxics, fine. Other researchers have used various non toxic adjuvants (e.g. cimetidine and PSK) and called their treatments immunochemotherapy.

    Personally, we seem to be getting more mileage from light chemo cocktails with high dose nutrients inhibiting the same, related and more pathways as Avastin etc.

    Definition of Immunochemotherapy:
    the combined use of immunotherapy and chemotherapy in the treatment or control of disease

    *********************

    One is immunotherapy, and one is chemotherapy, thus the need for a new word.

    To the layman this is a tomayto - tomahto argument, but to the researchers involved drugs like Avastin (and Erbitux) work in very different ways from the cytotoxic drugs and need a different terminology.
  • thxmiker
    thxmiker Member Posts: 1,278 Member
    I would still consider
    I would still consider having the blood work checked for Octreotides, H5IAA and CEA. If any of these rise, then consider to look for the issue. I had similar symptoms and treatment for my first time with cancer at 44 years old. My CEA went through the roof and I had another colon blockage 3 years later. Had my medical team been watching my CEA closer I probably would not have such a difficult second surgery and treatment.

    Quality of Life is everything! Start a balanced diet and start thinking about high antioxidents to help prevent future cancer. Cheers to a long life Tom!
    Best Always, mike
  • 2bhealed
    2bhealed Member Posts: 2,064 Member
    Choices
    Hello Tom,

    In 2001, at 39, I was dx'ed with Stage III colon cancer (sigmoid), 2/19 lymph pos, zero mets. Adjuvant chemo of 5FU and leucovorin was recommended by the Mayo Clinic. I opted to NOT do any chemo and embarked on a different path that led me to Eastern Medicine for healing while using Western diagnostics and surgery.

    The chemo scared me more than the cancer since 9 years before my diagnosis my 33 year old sister had died of small intestinal cancer after having both chemo and radiation. My grandfather died of lung cancer after having conventional treatment as did my aunt of breast cancer. No one in my family survived their cancer for very long, and I know that in my sister's case she was worse after the chemo.

    The thing about allopathic doctors and western medicine in general is that they "practice" medicine. They are taught about medications that alleviate symptoms but they are not taught root cause healing. Cancer is a symptom of a deeper root problem. Eastern healing is based on root causes that focuses on holistic and personal cases -- tailored for you. It's not a one-size-fits-most approach.

    So you can decide which approach you want to follow; and for me, I based mine on digging to the root cause. I am still researching and digging and uncovering problems and potential problems after 10 years (remaining cancer free too, by the way, so it's worked for me), all the while building up my immune system rather than depleting it with dumping cytotoxic chemicals into my body.

    There is definitely a place for western style doctors and I wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for my wonderful surgeon (who actually advised me against the chemo). My oncologist has also been quite supportive of my choices.

    Because of my choice to decline the chemo I will never fear secondary cancers from the chemo, nor will I fear chemo-induced leukemia. I will not have to deal with chemo-induced permanent heart and/or kidney damage, peripheral neuropathy, fatigue, mouth sores, rashes, hair loss, chemo-brain etc etc etc.

    The foundation of my protocol was diet and juicing along with the Traditional Chinese Medicine. I consulted with a Naturopathic Doctor who tweaked my diet and helped with supplement choices, but my TCM was my hands-on gal who did acupuncture, massage, aromatherapy, counseling, Chinese herbs, etc.

    I loosely followed The Gerson Method for the juicing, a vegan/macrobiotic diet for detoxing. To this day I still juice for maintenance.


    These are just some of the references that helped me:

    Beating Cancer with Nutrition by Patrick Quillin
    A Cancer Battle Plan by Anne Frahm
    Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Balch and Balch
    Spontaneous Healing by Dr. Andrew Weil
    The pH Miracle by Dr. Robert Young

    www.cancerdecisions.com

    As for the issue of removing the colon due to the multiple polyps, I second scouty's advice to get a 2nd opinion. My own onc had colon ca with multiple polyps and they were able to save enough to not get a bag. Just a thought.


    I hope this helps.

    peace, emily
  • thingy45
    thingy45 Member Posts: 632 Member
    2bhealed said:

    Choices
    Hello Tom,

    In 2001, at 39, I was dx'ed with Stage III colon cancer (sigmoid), 2/19 lymph pos, zero mets. Adjuvant chemo of 5FU and leucovorin was recommended by the Mayo Clinic. I opted to NOT do any chemo and embarked on a different path that led me to Eastern Medicine for healing while using Western diagnostics and surgery.

    The chemo scared me more than the cancer since 9 years before my diagnosis my 33 year old sister had died of small intestinal cancer after having both chemo and radiation. My grandfather died of lung cancer after having conventional treatment as did my aunt of breast cancer. No one in my family survived their cancer for very long, and I know that in my sister's case she was worse after the chemo.

    The thing about allopathic doctors and western medicine in general is that they "practice" medicine. They are taught about medications that alleviate symptoms but they are not taught root cause healing. Cancer is a symptom of a deeper root problem. Eastern healing is based on root causes that focuses on holistic and personal cases -- tailored for you. It's not a one-size-fits-most approach.

    So you can decide which approach you want to follow; and for me, I based mine on digging to the root cause. I am still researching and digging and uncovering problems and potential problems after 10 years (remaining cancer free too, by the way, so it's worked for me), all the while building up my immune system rather than depleting it with dumping cytotoxic chemicals into my body.

    There is definitely a place for western style doctors and I wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for my wonderful surgeon (who actually advised me against the chemo). My oncologist has also been quite supportive of my choices.

    Because of my choice to decline the chemo I will never fear secondary cancers from the chemo, nor will I fear chemo-induced leukemia. I will not have to deal with chemo-induced permanent heart and/or kidney damage, peripheral neuropathy, fatigue, mouth sores, rashes, hair loss, chemo-brain etc etc etc.

    The foundation of my protocol was diet and juicing along with the Traditional Chinese Medicine. I consulted with a Naturopathic Doctor who tweaked my diet and helped with supplement choices, but my TCM was my hands-on gal who did acupuncture, massage, aromatherapy, counseling, Chinese herbs, etc.

    I loosely followed The Gerson Method for the juicing, a vegan/macrobiotic diet for detoxing. To this day I still juice for maintenance.


    These are just some of the references that helped me:

    Beating Cancer with Nutrition by Patrick Quillin
    A Cancer Battle Plan by Anne Frahm
    Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Balch and Balch
    Spontaneous Healing by Dr. Andrew Weil
    The pH Miracle by Dr. Robert Young

    www.cancerdecisions.com

    As for the issue of removing the colon due to the multiple polyps, I second scouty's advice to get a 2nd opinion. My own onc had colon ca with multiple polyps and they were able to save enough to not get a bag. Just a thought.


    I hope this helps.

    peace, emily

    HI Tom,
    In april I was

    HI Tom,
    In april I was diagnosed with colorectal cancer, on April 25 I Had a left Hemicolectomy 34 cm of colon removed and 4 cm of rectum, no stoma.My tumor was high up on the left side. Tumor the size of a basball had exploded and reattached it self at three different places. All 9 lymphnodes taken came back clear.
    Onc. advised chemo and radiation for 24 weeks. as a preventative messure. He frowned on my decision and warned me that if the cancer reoccured I might be incurable.
    I obted for the naturopath. MY decision, I know the risks.
    I think it is induvitual for each of us which direction we choose, as long as we are aware of the risks what is involved with our decisions. Reoccurance can always happen.Cancer is cancer.
    You have polyps and the have to be taken care of or they can become canceres, please look carefully at your options. Fourty is a lot.
    I also obt for quality and not for quantaty.
    I wish you well whatever decision you make,
    Marjan

    You never walk alone
  • LOUSWIFT
    LOUSWIFT Member Posts: 371 Member
    chemo
    I had colon cancer in 2006 did the radiation/chemo/surgery/chemo and NED for about 4 years then in 2010 colon cancer came back ...smaller tumor but 3 nodes involved. Folfox 6 months and it turns out the chemo damaged by liver so now I have cirrhosis. Gastro doc says good news chemo is out so no more damage. He feels I have somewhere between 2 years and 10 years due to the cirrhosis. I'm 61 and I'll never do chemo again. I have been so sick that I lost 40 lbs and it will take 6 months to a year for me to recover so I can walk a distance and even get up off the floor. Quality of life very important. Good luck Lou
  • bkeen
    bkeen Member Posts: 3
    biglaur said:

    My story is similar
    I went to the ER Sept '06, thought I had appendicitis. No...colon cancer, emergency surgery, 7" of my colon and the tumor removed. 14 lymph nodes removed...NO sign of disease. Dr thought no chemo necessary and I was stoked. Did blood tests every 3 months for a year and a half...started to feel crummy and insisted on a PET. Guess what...lesions in liver and lung!!!! Stage IV just like that. When we went back and looked at all my old scans...the liver lesion was there ALL along, they just missed it somehow. Bummer. I should have done chemo, shouldn't have been so quick to think I'd dodged a bullet. I did do chemo from June '08 to Feb '09, plus a clinical trial drug, stereotactic radiation in the middle, Xeloda for 6 months after all that. I'm good now...have had clean perfect scans since Feb '09, CEA is undetectable. My fingers are still crossed...but my advice to you...get a second opinion...and do whatever it takes to MAKE SURE you've gotten rid of everything. Mine was a comedy of errors on a lot of levels and I can't help but think I might have saved myself a lot of icky months if I'd not been so quick to think all was well with just the initial surgery.
    Laurie

    colon cancer
    I had the scope and they found mess in my colon. I had a large section removed. The cancer had spread to my liver and lungs. I went to MD Anderson and they put me on some really harsh chemo. The tumors have shrunk 75%. I go back on Aug 11 2011. You mentioned you took Xeloda and all is well. Praise God for your good health. I'm on Xeloda now. After the treatment did your feet and hands get to normal.
  • bkeen
    bkeen Member Posts: 3
    LOUSWIFT said:

    chemo
    I had colon cancer in 2006 did the radiation/chemo/surgery/chemo and NED for about 4 years then in 2010 colon cancer came back ...smaller tumor but 3 nodes involved. Folfox 6 months and it turns out the chemo damaged by liver so now I have cirrhosis. Gastro doc says good news chemo is out so no more damage. He feels I have somewhere between 2 years and 10 years due to the cirrhosis. I'm 61 and I'll never do chemo again. I have been so sick that I lost 40 lbs and it will take 6 months to a year for me to recover so I can walk a distance and even get up off the floor. Quality of life very important. Good luck Lou

    Chemo
    Louswift,

    I have been on chemo for 8 months. Thinking of stopping the chemo. It is really bad for the liver and the rest of the body. The side effects are crazy. I'm thinking of becoming a vegan have you tried that?