permanent liver damage from chemo, irinotecan may lead to increased mortality after liver surgery UP

245

Comments

  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    KathiM said:

    Yes, I was warned....
    But in that time's treatment cycle, there were very few other options.

    One of the best words of wisdom was to stay super hydrated, the day before, during, and after chemo...to flush the stuff where it didn't need to be...

    Hugs, Kathi

    (IMHO, death is the absolute LAST option, after all else has been exhausted....)

    I am glad you were warned
    Hi Kathi,

    I have changed the title to be more accurate.
    Thanks for mentioning "staying super hyrdrated".

    hugs,
    pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    Buckwirth said:

    Pete,
    Could you consider deleting this thread? While mildly interesting, it adds nothing to the pertinent conversations of treatment hope and options for those with metastatic disease (something you do not yet have).

    Thanks,

    Blake

    I made the title clearer and added some context
    Hi Blake,

    I'd prefer to leave the updated post stand.

    The fact that irinotecan can result in death in stage4, some are lucky to .

    I believed anyone wanting to make an informed decision would already know.
    otherwise they should.
    If some here don't want to be informed, thye can just skip reading the post. I put a skip notice at the front.

    As a stage 3, I find what may lay ahead immensley interesting and helps me with my
    anticancer diet and treatments.

    Pete
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258
    jjaj133 said:

    Oh, this must be the
    Oh, this must be the "sometimes we disagree part"? Mags, mind if i join you in the sand?
    judy

    I still
    like the idea of just deleting the thread. Another could be started that was more appropriate.

    Like all good families we spat sometimes, and get on each others nerves. And like all good families, we still love one another.

    Thanks for changing the title Pete, and I hope you don't ever join the metastatic club.
  • jjaj133
    jjaj133 Member Posts: 867
    Hey Pete, the good news is
    Hey Pete, the good news is that i didnt understand half of what it said. The bad news is what i did understand scared me simple. The better news is that facing resection and chemo again, if the onc. mentions that irinotecan----- to me i will say no.
    I am sending hugs to ya,
    Judy
  • maglets
    maglets Member Posts: 2,576
    jjaj133 said:

    Hey Pete, the good news is
    Hey Pete, the good news is that i didnt understand half of what it said. The bad news is what i did understand scared me simple. The better news is that facing resection and chemo again, if the onc. mentions that irinotecan----- to me i will say no.
    I am sending hugs to ya,
    Judy

    sorry
    oh I'm sorry...really I try not to be combative

    I feel a little protective about younger hurting people..

    doing chemo ...trying to get on..it is all so hard

    sure this is a forum for info...no prob...let's not fight......

    post whatever

    mags
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122
    Buckwirth said:

    Not that I don't agree with
    Not that I don't agree with what you say...

    Whew !

    I missed this remark the first time around!

    Re:
    "Not that I don't agree with what you say, but for someone without
    metastatic disease, you have a lot of opinions about what those
    with metastatic disease should or should not be doing.
    "


    Man, Blake.... You sure are brutal !

    So you'd prefer to have separate forums set up to accommodate
    cancer victims by what? Stage? Or by how far the cancer's travelled?
    What exactly should be required?

    Did your oncologist have cancer? Is your oncologist presently
    suffering with a metastatic cancerous condition? If not, why should
    that physician be giving you advice?

    A little OT, but to explain a thing or three:

    I considered myself a stage 3c, because my 1st oncologist said
    that it's what I was. The second onco, the surgeons, radiologists,
    etc, etc said I was a stage 4...... That was back in 2006. So I
    considered my stage a 3c, since that gave me a better shot.
    Hell, I'm no fool. If I have a chance to do better, I'll grab
    that golden ring before it passes by; 3c it was! It was a toss-up,
    and I chose the lesser of the two evils.

    My rude awakening came in Jan of 2011, when an oncologist
    I never met before, was at the foot of my hospital bed. She was
    telling me that I wouldn't live out the year unless I did chemo;
    that not many stage 4 victims make it that long, even with chemo,
    but at least chemo will give me a chance.

    She told me she had two stage 4 patients presently, that have
    lived almost two years so far, thanks to chemo treatments.

    I asked what changed my stage from a 3c to a 4? She looked
    at the records she was holding, and noticed that she was looking
    at the wrong records. She thought my 2006 operation was what
    just occurred in Jan 2011.

    She said that I apparently was a stage 4 from 2006. Imagine that?
    She thought I had been operated on in 2011 and had a major
    tumor removed, and would need chemo if I expected to live a year.

    After she regained her composure, she said that it would be
    beneficial for me to get chemotherapy treatments now, anyway.

    So even though they had said I had cancer throughout my lovely
    bod, they didn't hand me proof. Consequently, I can't offer you
    proof either. But I do now acknowledge the fact that I had been
    a stage 4 and didn't have much time to live. I guess I'm just one
    helluva lucky guy, since we don't believe in alternatives around
    here, right? Well, you've just given me reason to feel the same!

    Blake (and others), don't allow cancer to scare the hell out of you.
    You have a right to live, and a right to use whatever means will
    provide you with a continuance of life.

    But be careful about taking what might kill you, in your effort to
    stay alive.

    And -that- my dear Blake, was the point of Pete's post, and
    the dialog held within it's text.

    "It doesn't have to make you sick to make you healthy."

    Stay well,

    John
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331
    maglets said:

    sorry
    oh I'm sorry...really I try not to be combative

    I feel a little protective about younger hurting people..

    doing chemo ...trying to get on..it is all so hard

    sure this is a forum for info...no prob...let's not fight......

    post whatever

    mags

    OK mates, let's go to be serious!
    This is just an study just think about ! How many stage 4 had been operated after been treated with oxy or folfiri? MOST OF THEM since there is no other choice, so what are we talking about? What means an increase of mortality if all of them have been treated with those drugs.An increase of mortality compared with? Most of you know that stage 4 means not only distant metastasis, but in most of cases not candidate for surgery unless you achieve a reduction of the tumor, and how to achieve a reduction of the tumor?As per I know only through two ways , oxy or irinotecan. Please don't mention immune clonal antibodies as they are given as complementary therapy together with chemo or alone as maintenance chemo but not as first line treatment!.This is just one between millions of studies about cancer that's all, it sounds a kind of " secondary effects " prospect. Did you ever read a prospect of an aspirin ? did you ever read a prospect of Tylenol ?. Well , once that said l hope this don't become another fight in this board, so let's continue arguing about but with friendly manners as we are doing until now!.Once that said ( again ) congratulations to Pete ,Maglets ,Anne and any other member of the commonwealth of nations , you got a nice show tomorrow! LOL. ( just a bit of fun in such an stressing thread) .
    Hugs every body!
  • maglets
    maglets Member Posts: 2,576
    pepebcn said:

    OK mates, let's go to be serious!
    This is just an study just think about ! How many stage 4 had been operated after been treated with oxy or folfiri? MOST OF THEM since there is no other choice, so what are we talking about? What means an increase of mortality if all of them have been treated with those drugs.An increase of mortality compared with? Most of you know that stage 4 means not only distant metastasis, but in most of cases not candidate for surgery unless you achieve a reduction of the tumor, and how to achieve a reduction of the tumor?As per I know only through two ways , oxy or irinotecan. Please don't mention immune clonal antibodies as they are given as complementary therapy together with chemo or alone as maintenance chemo but not as first line treatment!.This is just one between millions of studies about cancer that's all, it sounds a kind of " secondary effects " prospect. Did you ever read a prospect of an aspirin ? did you ever read a prospect of Tylenol ?. Well , once that said l hope this don't become another fight in this board, so let's continue arguing about but with friendly manners as we are doing until now!.Once that said ( again ) congratulations to Pete ,Maglets ,Anne and any other member of the commonwealth of nations , you got a nice show tomorrow! LOL. ( just a bit of fun in such an stressing thread) .
    Hugs every body!

    wedding
    thank you pepe...just going to bed now....here in canada..it is 8pm....the wedding for us will be at 5ish...so for preamble...getting up at 3am

    you lucky thing....you can watch in real time...

    so much for being colonial...:) :)
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    pepebcn said:

    OK mates, let's go to be serious!
    This is just an study just think about ! How many stage 4 had been operated after been treated with oxy or folfiri? MOST OF THEM since there is no other choice, so what are we talking about? What means an increase of mortality if all of them have been treated with those drugs.An increase of mortality compared with? Most of you know that stage 4 means not only distant metastasis, but in most of cases not candidate for surgery unless you achieve a reduction of the tumor, and how to achieve a reduction of the tumor?As per I know only through two ways , oxy or irinotecan. Please don't mention immune clonal antibodies as they are given as complementary therapy together with chemo or alone as maintenance chemo but not as first line treatment!.This is just one between millions of studies about cancer that's all, it sounds a kind of " secondary effects " prospect. Did you ever read a prospect of an aspirin ? did you ever read a prospect of Tylenol ?. Well , once that said l hope this don't become another fight in this board, so let's continue arguing about but with friendly manners as we are doing until now!.Once that said ( again ) congratulations to Pete ,Maglets ,Anne and any other member of the commonwealth of nations , you got a nice show tomorrow! LOL. ( just a bit of fun in such an stressing thread) .
    Hugs every body!

    hi pepe
    I must have put my foot in it this time.
    I am not this interested in the wedding but I hope they have a great nmarriage.

    About tylenol, well apparrently in one the many liver papers I was reading its abuse was one of the major causes of liver failure.

    hugs,
    Pete
  • Scambuster
    Scambuster Member Posts: 973

    hi pepe
    I must have put my foot in it this time.
    I am not this interested in the wedding but I hope they have a great nmarriage.

    About tylenol, well apparrently in one the many liver papers I was reading its abuse was one of the major causes of liver failure.

    hugs,
    Pete

    Silymarin
    Pete,

    You may want to read up on Silymarin = Milk Thistle Extract, a known agent for regenerating liver cells. Used for acute liver damage from people over dosing on Paracetamol. Also used by Hepatitis C sufferers / survivors. It has been used for several hundred years. Now available in convenient caps.

    There is plenty of information out there. Definitely worth a look and one to add to the arsenal.

    Regds
    Scam
  • Erinb
    Erinb Member Posts: 293
    Thanks for the info.
    Erin

    Thanks for the info.
    Erin
  • wolfen
    wolfen Member Posts: 1,324
    maglets said:

    wedding
    thank you pepe...just going to bed now....here in canada..it is 8pm....the wedding for us will be at 5ish...so for preamble...getting up at 3am

    you lucky thing....you can watch in real time...

    so much for being colonial...:) :)

    Maglets
    Thank you for supporting Johnnybegood. It is extremely hard to think you have beat this thing and then soon afterward it comes creeping back on you in full force.

    Thank you also, Pepe. Perhaps the key "thought" here is that this is a just a study and results do not apply to everyone. I understand that Irinotecan is used in place of Oxi as Oxi may no longer be appropriate for the patient.

    My thoughts are of course of everyone here, and especially for my daughter, Johnnybegood.
    I have seen a lot of posts on the board telling new people not to read statistics. Some may be old statistics and some may be too frightening for people. Perhaps this should be one of those times.

    And Pete, I think you meant well. I confess that I did not read the entire post because like Judy, I would not have understood all the technical jargon.

    All take care,

    Wolfen
  • Erinb said:

    Thanks for the info.
    Erin

    Thanks for the info.
    Erin

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258
    John23 said:

    Whew !

    I missed this remark the first time around!

    Re:
    "Not that I don't agree with what you say, but for someone without
    metastatic disease, you have a lot of opinions about what those
    with metastatic disease should or should not be doing.
    "


    Man, Blake.... You sure are brutal !

    So you'd prefer to have separate forums set up to accommodate
    cancer victims by what? Stage? Or by how far the cancer's travelled?
    What exactly should be required?

    Did your oncologist have cancer? Is your oncologist presently
    suffering with a metastatic cancerous condition? If not, why should
    that physician be giving you advice?

    A little OT, but to explain a thing or three:

    I considered myself a stage 3c, because my 1st oncologist said
    that it's what I was. The second onco, the surgeons, radiologists,
    etc, etc said I was a stage 4...... That was back in 2006. So I
    considered my stage a 3c, since that gave me a better shot.
    Hell, I'm no fool. If I have a chance to do better, I'll grab
    that golden ring before it passes by; 3c it was! It was a toss-up,
    and I chose the lesser of the two evils.

    My rude awakening came in Jan of 2011, when an oncologist
    I never met before, was at the foot of my hospital bed. She was
    telling me that I wouldn't live out the year unless I did chemo;
    that not many stage 4 victims make it that long, even with chemo,
    but at least chemo will give me a chance.

    She told me she had two stage 4 patients presently, that have
    lived almost two years so far, thanks to chemo treatments.

    I asked what changed my stage from a 3c to a 4? She looked
    at the records she was holding, and noticed that she was looking
    at the wrong records. She thought my 2006 operation was what
    just occurred in Jan 2011.

    She said that I apparently was a stage 4 from 2006. Imagine that?
    She thought I had been operated on in 2011 and had a major
    tumor removed, and would need chemo if I expected to live a year.

    After she regained her composure, she said that it would be
    beneficial for me to get chemotherapy treatments now, anyway.

    So even though they had said I had cancer throughout my lovely
    bod, they didn't hand me proof. Consequently, I can't offer you
    proof either. But I do now acknowledge the fact that I had been
    a stage 4 and didn't have much time to live. I guess I'm just one
    helluva lucky guy, since we don't believe in alternatives around
    here, right? Well, you've just given me reason to feel the same!

    Blake (and others), don't allow cancer to scare the hell out of you.
    You have a right to live, and a right to use whatever means will
    provide you with a continuance of life.

    But be careful about taking what might kill you, in your effort to
    stay alive.

    And -that- my dear Blake, was the point of Pete's post, and
    the dialog held within it's text.

    "It doesn't have to make you sick to make you healthy."

    Stay well,

    John

    John,
    Your story is interesting, and I understand why your Oncologist in '06 recommended chemo and feared stage 4. The problem is, the dx of stage 4 requires some kind of metastasis, and in all your stories (you've posted it many times, though I do like the new wrinkle from January) you never had any. Yes, you probably should have, but you did not.

    The Oncologist in January needs to work on her bedside manner. Without any organ metastasis my doctors see no reason I have a two year expiration date, they actually think I have a really good outlook. It sounds like she made a faux paus and could not figure her way out of it.

    OTOH, she only had two patients that had made it two years? Maybe she needs to get into another profession...

    We actually had this whole conversation once before (minus this bit from January). I look at your case, as you reported it, and I see someone who had a close call with the grim reaper. Someone who was saved by an unusually lucky surgeon. In other posts you have actually said the same.

    I also see someone who fits the definition of stage 3, not stage 4.

    Maybe your tea (I know, its not tea) made a difference. Maybe it kept those loose cancer cells from settling in a new home and going about their business of endless division.

    You are lucky John, and I envy you that luck.

    On the issue of separate forums: No. There are more similarities to our disease than differences. That does not change the fact that treatment is determined by stage, and the treatment for stage 4, while similar, is different from the earlier stages. Our choices are fewer. None of those choices is easy, and we look for the best information we can. You have a path, others may share it. I have a path, others may share that. Neither of us believes that those paths are equal.

    Your path may be the right one, but it is not mine and never will be.

    As to Pete's post, well you are kinder to him than I am.
  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122
    Buckwirth said:

    John,
    Your story is interesting, and I understand why your Oncologist in '06 recommended chemo and feared stage 4. The problem is, the dx of stage 4 requires some kind of metastasis, and in all your stories (you've posted it many times, though I do like the new wrinkle from January) you never had any. Yes, you probably should have, but you did not.

    The Oncologist in January needs to work on her bedside manner. Without any organ metastasis my doctors see no reason I have a two year expiration date, they actually think I have a really good outlook. It sounds like she made a faux paus and could not figure her way out of it.

    OTOH, she only had two patients that had made it two years? Maybe she needs to get into another profession...

    We actually had this whole conversation once before (minus this bit from January). I look at your case, as you reported it, and I see someone who had a close call with the grim reaper. Someone who was saved by an unusually lucky surgeon. In other posts you have actually said the same.

    I also see someone who fits the definition of stage 3, not stage 4.

    Maybe your tea (I know, its not tea) made a difference. Maybe it kept those loose cancer cells from settling in a new home and going about their business of endless division.

    You are lucky John, and I envy you that luck.

    On the issue of separate forums: No. There are more similarities to our disease than differences. That does not change the fact that treatment is determined by stage, and the treatment for stage 4, while similar, is different from the earlier stages. Our choices are fewer. None of those choices is easy, and we look for the best information we can. You have a path, others may share it. I have a path, others may share that. Neither of us believes that those paths are equal.

    Your path may be the right one, but it is not mine and never will be.

    As to Pete's post, well you are kinder to him than I am.

    Blake -

    Re:
    "the dx of stage 4 requires some kind of metastasis, and in
    all your stories (you've posted it many times, though I do like
    the new wrinkle from January) you never had any. "


    If you've read my bio as you've claimed, you should have noted
    that back in 2006, I had 7 out of 28 nodes testing positive. And,
    the tumor grew out through one section of colon, and into an
    adjoining section. And yes, I preferred to think of it as a "3c".

    By the way, I really hated to join your discussion, since you seem
    to have a habit of deleting/editing your posts, leaving an answering
    party looking a bit foolish (answering what doesn't exist).

    All of this banter is very OT, and of no concern.

    The point of the article that Pete posted here, is a very good read
    and should not "scare" anyone. All chemotherapy is toxic, and we
    all know that (or we all should know that). It's unfortunate when
    an oncologist does not make all the information available so the
    patient is able to make an informed choice.

    Making an informed choice should not be "an option", it should
    be a requirement. When one if frightened, it is easy to run into
    blank alleyways, but when one can think clearly, they can make
    better choices for their survival.

    The choice is -not- limited to "mainstream medicine or alternative",
    it is also knowing what will cause damage or death, and what will not.
    It is the ability to know what medication to choose, or deny,
    regardless if it's "mainstream" or an alternative.

    Some of the chemotherapy used today, is being used arbitrarily
    by too many physicians.

    With that in mind, why should anyone accept taking a dangerously
    toxic chemical that may cause irreparable harm, when it may not
    be needed at all? They can't make an educated choice if they
    don't know about the possible irreparable harm.

    It's threads like this one posted by Pete, that can provide a newly
    diagnosed cancer patient with the arsenal needed to properly question
    the physician.

    All people have the right to choose their medical care. Not providing
    enough information about a specific form of care, is denying a person
    of that right to make an educated choice.

    I'm glad Pete didn't delete this thread. It's informative, and needed.

    Best wishes, as always.

    John
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258
    John23 said:

    Blake -

    Re:
    "the dx of stage 4 requires some kind of metastasis, and in
    all your stories (you've posted it many times, though I do like
    the new wrinkle from January) you never had any. "


    If you've read my bio as you've claimed, you should have noted
    that back in 2006, I had 7 out of 28 nodes testing positive. And,
    the tumor grew out through one section of colon, and into an
    adjoining section. And yes, I preferred to think of it as a "3c".

    By the way, I really hated to join your discussion, since you seem
    to have a habit of deleting/editing your posts, leaving an answering
    party looking a bit foolish (answering what doesn't exist).

    All of this banter is very OT, and of no concern.

    The point of the article that Pete posted here, is a very good read
    and should not "scare" anyone. All chemotherapy is toxic, and we
    all know that (or we all should know that). It's unfortunate when
    an oncologist does not make all the information available so the
    patient is able to make an informed choice.

    Making an informed choice should not be "an option", it should
    be a requirement. When one if frightened, it is easy to run into
    blank alleyways, but when one can think clearly, they can make
    better choices for their survival.

    The choice is -not- limited to "mainstream medicine or alternative",
    it is also knowing what will cause damage or death, and what will not.
    It is the ability to know what medication to choose, or deny,
    regardless if it's "mainstream" or an alternative.

    Some of the chemotherapy used today, is being used arbitrarily
    by too many physicians.

    With that in mind, why should anyone accept taking a dangerously
    toxic chemical that may cause irreparable harm, when it may not
    be needed at all? They can't make an educated choice if they
    don't know about the possible irreparable harm.

    It's threads like this one posted by Pete, that can provide a newly
    diagnosed cancer patient with the arsenal needed to properly question
    the physician.

    All people have the right to choose their medical care. Not providing
    enough information about a specific form of care, is denying a person
    of that right to make an educated choice.

    I'm glad Pete didn't delete this thread. It's informative, and needed.

    Best wishes, as always.

    John

    John,
    I am going to keep this short.

    "By the way, I really hated to join your discussion, since you seem
    to have a habit of deleting/editing your posts, leaving an answering
    party looking a bit foolish (answering what doesn't exist)."

    1. I would prefer you did not. I think I actually told you in a PM that I would refrain from responding directly to your posts (in this case, you started the response chain)

    2. It is true I have edited posts, never to make someone look foolish, just to correct spelling errors (the iPad has a nasty habit of changing your words) and sometimes to add something. Never to change the meaning of a response.

    3. I have also deleted threads (you cannot delete a post). No way for that to make anyone look foolish except me.

    With that I am done. You can PM me if you wish, but I will not respond to anything in a thread.

    Health to you as well John. Whether you realize it or not you have my respect, and, if we were closer, you are someone I would enjoy having lunch with.

    Blake
  • Kathryn_in_MN
    Kathryn_in_MN Member Posts: 1,252
    Sometimes I wonder about this board...
    "CONCLUSION: The fact that irinotecan may be linked to an increased risk of hepatic failure and postoperative death, which is not the case of oxaliplatine, must be taken in consideration in the choice of the preoperative chemotherapy before resection of hepatic metastasis of colorectal cancer."

    This sounds like good information to be aware of if you are getting irinotecan before liver resection - especially if you seem to have other trouble with your liver. I'm on irinotecan, but my liver labs are fine. And I don't have liver mets, and am not planning a resection, so this doesn't apply to me. But if it did, it would be just one more piece of information I would use in making treatment decisions. I would likely discuss the pros and cons of using oxaliplatin instead with my oncologist before making that decision.

    I really truly do not understand why posting research outcomes is not ok to do here? since when is ignorance the best way to deal with cancer? Has this turned into nothing but a blowing sunshine up your butt site? Is this site only for emotional or spiritual support?

    You know what? While I appreciate any form of support, I see the reason for a board specifically dedicated to COLON CANCER to be having facts and information about the disease and treatments. What is wrong with being educated? How can people make the BEST possible decisions without having all the facts?

    I'm stage IV, but don't have liver mets right now. I am on FOLFIRI (and Avastin). Still if someone posted a paper about negative impact of irinotecan for someone with their cancer spread to distant lymph nodes, I wouldn't take offense. I wouldn't expect them to remove the post. Are we really supposed to stop and figure out what everyone's staging and treatment protocol is here, and not post anything negative found in research that might apply to every person?

    I wish only the best for everyone fighting this awful disease. I'm right in the thick of the battle myself. But I don't think we should be censoring posting FACTS that might help someone, just because it might upset someone else. And I don't think any of us should be asking for that to be done for ourselves, our family members, or friends. Supporting each other is one thing. Asking for censorship and ignorance to facts in the name of supporting someone is quite something else. Turning this into something akin to children's playground rules is ridiculous for a site for adults for a very serious disease.

    Thank you Pete for posting facts that you found while researching a subject important to you. I'm glad you don't actually have to worry about these facts since you have no liver mets and are not having liver resection. I hope your liver bounces back soon.
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900

    Silymarin
    Pete,

    You may want to read up on Silymarin = Milk Thistle Extract, a known agent for regenerating liver cells. Used for acute liver damage from people over dosing on Paracetamol. Also used by Hepatitis C sufferers / survivors. It has been used for several hundred years. Now available in convenient caps.

    There is plenty of information out there. Definitely worth a look and one to add to the arsenal.

    Regds
    Scam

    thanks scam
    hi scam,

    been on milk thistle daily since dx june 2010.
    i was still after any other liver suggestions.

    pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    but gracie, where can we go
    hi gracie,

    thanks for the comments and have a nice break.
    the unkind comments here, they are not so subtle.
    its almost cyber bullying. thank god we are a community and not
    dominated by one persons opinions.

    hugs,
    pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900

    Sometimes I wonder about this board...
    "CONCLUSION: The fact that irinotecan may be linked to an increased risk of hepatic failure and postoperative death, which is not the case of oxaliplatine, must be taken in consideration in the choice of the preoperative chemotherapy before resection of hepatic metastasis of colorectal cancer."

    This sounds like good information to be aware of if you are getting irinotecan before liver resection - especially if you seem to have other trouble with your liver. I'm on irinotecan, but my liver labs are fine. And I don't have liver mets, and am not planning a resection, so this doesn't apply to me. But if it did, it would be just one more piece of information I would use in making treatment decisions. I would likely discuss the pros and cons of using oxaliplatin instead with my oncologist before making that decision.

    I really truly do not understand why posting research outcomes is not ok to do here? since when is ignorance the best way to deal with cancer? Has this turned into nothing but a blowing sunshine up your butt site? Is this site only for emotional or spiritual support?

    You know what? While I appreciate any form of support, I see the reason for a board specifically dedicated to COLON CANCER to be having facts and information about the disease and treatments. What is wrong with being educated? How can people make the BEST possible decisions without having all the facts?

    I'm stage IV, but don't have liver mets right now. I am on FOLFIRI (and Avastin). Still if someone posted a paper about negative impact of irinotecan for someone with their cancer spread to distant lymph nodes, I wouldn't take offense. I wouldn't expect them to remove the post. Are we really supposed to stop and figure out what everyone's staging and treatment protocol is here, and not post anything negative found in research that might apply to every person?

    I wish only the best for everyone fighting this awful disease. I'm right in the thick of the battle myself. But I don't think we should be censoring posting FACTS that might help someone, just because it might upset someone else. And I don't think any of us should be asking for that to be done for ourselves, our family members, or friends. Supporting each other is one thing. Asking for censorship and ignorance to facts in the name of supporting someone is quite something else. Turning this into something akin to children's playground rules is ridiculous for a site for adults for a very serious disease.

    Thank you Pete for posting facts that you found while researching a subject important to you. I'm glad you don't actually have to worry about these facts since you have no liver mets and are not having liver resection. I hope your liver bounces back soon.

    thankyou kathryn
    hi kathryn,

    your comments are like gold, i have been attacked here enough, albiet very polite and subtle.

    my intentions with this post were strictly honourable and aimed at education and discussion
    of anyone interested.

    i don't like being abused by pm. so your kind and appreciative words i value.

    i wanted to talk about liver damage and our chemo, its what i am experiencing. this study had the buzz words is relevant and the citations are enough to educate anyone who is interested.

    i hope my liver bounces back.

    good health to you,

    pete