Article from Dr. Lenz

13

Comments

  • HollyID
    HollyID Member Posts: 946 Member
    Lisa, thanks for the
    Lisa, thanks for the article!!
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member

    SmokeyJoe - Acid Vs Alkaline
    Hi Smokey,

    If you wish to do the Alkalizing things, best to do it with diet. The conflicts arise with the medics that Blood pH can't be altered an if it were, we would all die. Other parts of the body however do not get the pH regulated as rigorously as the blood, nor in the same manner, and most cancers occur in other parts of the body than the blood.

    You may wish to buy some litmus strips and test your Saliva and Urine. Mine all tested around high 5's to mid 6's in late 2009. Neutral pH is 7.0 Below that is Acidic and above is Alkaline.

    I'm not going to bother with the 'Does it work or not' here, you have make that your own decision. So, there are foods that 'Acidify' your body, and those that 'Alkalize' it. Some are very different to what you may expect i.e. Citrus is an acidic food, BUT it has an Alkalizing effect on your body. So eating Alkalizing foods in the right amount, and reducing the acidifying foods, will help you body get to an Alkaine state (over 7.0). THey say for disease free people, to eat 60/40% Alkalizing foods, while those with disease or wnating to fend off a recurrence (us), then go 75/25 -80/20.

    I have done the major diet change and my body is now slightly Alkaline. I feel great and all my previous ailments including :Headaches, Gout, Fibromyalgia (Joint and Muscle pain), and avcid reflux are all gone. After 30 years of suffering, that is a relief I can tell you.

    Best not to rely on a pill or powder to change you body pH. Use diet. Funnily enough, most of the Alkalizing foods are also on the same list as the 'Good' foods recommend in most Anti-Cancer diets (most fresh friuts and veges). Similarly, all the bad Acid producing foods are on the DO NOT EAT list of the same diet: Meats, Sugars, alcohol, processed foods. You can do a simple search and you will get websites with list of Acidizing foods and the alkalizing foods. Find one and print it off and stick it on your fridge(Here is just one of many: http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html

    From all the studies i have done and am still doing, a common thread among long term survivors is that that changed their diet. These common changes are going mostly or all Vegetarian, get pof processed foods, sugars and fried foods, and consume fresh fruits, veges, pulses and whole grains. REgardless of what you believe, people who use this diet are generally, statistically and clinically healthier that those still on the SAD (Standard American Diet) as punted by the FDA.

    So if you want to do it, do it with diet, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

    Best regards
    Scambuster

    PS Not wishing to complicate things, but you may wish to do the same search and print for the 'Anti-Angiogeneis' Food list. These foods are shown to reduce the ability of the cancer cells to trigger the genesis of their own blood vessels which is critical for the advance of Cancer. Not a bad arrow to have in your quiver and funnily, many of the same foods appear.

    Scam
    That does raise a question, the most alkaline area of the body is the colon (thanks to the pancreas), so how come we have cancer? Also, our cancer spreads mostly through the lymph system, which is the blood, so how does raising the alkaline help that?

    Btw, the most acidic part of the body is the stomach, so why is this not the leading site for cancer?

    Can you explain how these "other parts of the body" get their alkaline from food? What is the mode of transmission from the stomach?

    Can you show a direct relation of the alkaline of your saliva to the alkaline of the lungs or the liver? For those of us on this board, those are the most likely spread sites, so that information would be useful as we make lifestyle decisions.

    Funny you point to the anti-angiogenisis foods. The drugs mentioned in Lenz's letter ARE the anti-angiogenesis family of drugs that William Li has promoted. As noted in the letter, they did not work for stage 3 (and it should be noted that they failed in stage IV breast cancer as well). How is eating those foods (a basic good diet by the way, no harm in eating it) going to make that different?

    Here are a couple of websites on blood PH (not cancer related, so the authors are not trying to prove a point):


    http://www.anaes.med.usyd.edu.au/lectures/acidbase_mjb/causes.html
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_happens_if_your_blood_pH_levels_are_too_high_or_too_low
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkalosis

    Real questions Scam, do you have answers for them?

    Best regards,

    Blake
  • bigCrandy
    bigCrandy Member Posts: 75
    Buckwirth said:

    Scam
    That does raise a question, the most alkaline area of the body is the colon (thanks to the pancreas), so how come we have cancer? Also, our cancer spreads mostly through the lymph system, which is the blood, so how does raising the alkaline help that?

    Btw, the most acidic part of the body is the stomach, so why is this not the leading site for cancer?

    Can you explain how these "other parts of the body" get their alkaline from food? What is the mode of transmission from the stomach?

    Can you show a direct relation of the alkaline of your saliva to the alkaline of the lungs or the liver? For those of us on this board, those are the most likely spread sites, so that information would be useful as we make lifestyle decisions.

    Funny you point to the anti-angiogenisis foods. The drugs mentioned in Lenz's letter ARE the anti-angiogenesis family of drugs that William Li has promoted. As noted in the letter, they did not work for stage 3 (and it should be noted that they failed in stage IV breast cancer as well). How is eating those foods (a basic good diet by the way, no harm in eating it) going to make that different?

    Here are a couple of websites on blood PH (not cancer related, so the authors are not trying to prove a point):


    http://www.anaes.med.usyd.edu.au/lectures/acidbase_mjb/causes.html
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_happens_if_your_blood_pH_levels_are_too_high_or_too_low
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkalosis

    Real questions Scam, do you have answers for them?

    Best regards,

    Blake

    I Like Where You're Coming From
    Hey Buckwirth, I like your style. I'm not taking sides but what you are saying is right on. Sometimes medical doctors and pharmacists think they have all the answers. Only God has all the answers. If they know so much about cancer, then why haven't they found a cure yet. They are no closer to a cure now as they was 30 years ago. The surgeries have improved dramatically and that's a start if you are diagnosed at an early stage. When you get to stage 3C or 4, then you rely on the chemo and radiation. I've never had radiation so I can not comment on that, but I have had 67 rounds of chemo and I don't see it ever curing me. It slows it down and buys me more time but being on chemo for the rest of your life sucks. If the time comes when I can no longer work full time then it's time for me to stop the chemo. Quality of life matters! Medicine thinks it has a drug for everything that ails you, every drug out there has side effects which are sometimes worse than the actual disease or condition. Chemicals are a foreign substance that just ain't supposed to be in us. The damage that chemo does to all our healthy cells is beyond belief, it has to tear down the good cells to get to the bad (cancer) cells, that's how chemo works, it's a trade off. I'm glad to see a healthy discussion on CSN and I don't think you offended anyone, I believe this is good for cancer survivors to have opinions and disagreements. Thanks, everyone, may God Bless, Randy
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member
    bigCrandy said:

    I Like Where You're Coming From
    Hey Buckwirth, I like your style. I'm not taking sides but what you are saying is right on. Sometimes medical doctors and pharmacists think they have all the answers. Only God has all the answers. If they know so much about cancer, then why haven't they found a cure yet. They are no closer to a cure now as they was 30 years ago. The surgeries have improved dramatically and that's a start if you are diagnosed at an early stage. When you get to stage 3C or 4, then you rely on the chemo and radiation. I've never had radiation so I can not comment on that, but I have had 67 rounds of chemo and I don't see it ever curing me. It slows it down and buys me more time but being on chemo for the rest of your life sucks. If the time comes when I can no longer work full time then it's time for me to stop the chemo. Quality of life matters! Medicine thinks it has a drug for everything that ails you, every drug out there has side effects which are sometimes worse than the actual disease or condition. Chemicals are a foreign substance that just ain't supposed to be in us. The damage that chemo does to all our healthy cells is beyond belief, it has to tear down the good cells to get to the bad (cancer) cells, that's how chemo works, it's a trade off. I'm glad to see a healthy discussion on CSN and I don't think you offended anyone, I believe this is good for cancer survivors to have opinions and disagreements. Thanks, everyone, may God Bless, Randy

    Randy
    Thanks for the support. I too think this is a valuable conversation, and we need to have it. If a chemo treatment buys me nothing (some do) I would tell my doctor thanks, but no thanks. On the other hand, why should I change my lifestyle if that change buys me nothing? Again, thanks, but no thanks. Eating is part of quality of life, and if I am going to give up my morning donut, or my evening steak, I want to know why and what I get with that. Is it a cure? An extra two months?

    When it comes to diet and how nutrition moves through the body, we are not talking about unknowns here, those are the simple questions that biology answered long ago. No mystery, no disagreement.
  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    Buckwirth said:

    Randy
    Thanks for the support. I too think this is a valuable conversation, and we need to have it. If a chemo treatment buys me nothing (some do) I would tell my doctor thanks, but no thanks. On the other hand, why should I change my lifestyle if that change buys me nothing? Again, thanks, but no thanks. Eating is part of quality of life, and if I am going to give up my morning donut, or my evening steak, I want to know why and what I get with that. Is it a cure? An extra two months?

    When it comes to diet and how nutrition moves through the body, we are not talking about unknowns here, those are the simple questions that biology answered long ago. No mystery, no disagreement.

    Actually, when talking of diet, etc....all the questions WERE
    NOT answered because genetically modified organisms did not then exist and in the near future this stuff will be everywhere and only their creators see no harm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member
    coloCan said:

    Actually, when talking of diet, etc....all the questions WERE
    NOT answered because genetically modified organisms did not then exist and in the near future this stuff will be everywhere and only their creators see no harm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hmmm
    Interesting subject. Even a genetically modified food source will move through the body the same way, unless it can carve its own pathway. You are correct about questioning future harm.

    The story of the cane toad in Australia should give pause to those who think the balance of nature can be changed with no consequence.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toads_in_Australia

    Blake
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    Buckwirth said:

    Loved it
    And my style is direct, though I try to add a bit of sugar from time to time ;)

    I want an oncologist that tells me my odds of living 5 years is are about 10%, but if we do x we can raise those odds to 15%. Be honest, don't sell me hope. Recently I had a discussion about quality of life with my Onc. Should I be blessed to reach NED was it better to do mop-up, in the hope of buying an extra 6 months, or to take a break and spend my gained time now. What good is an extra 6 months if it is all spent in treatment?

    He actually got a little excited. Most of his patients don't want to have that conversation. Front end vs back end and quality of life. It was a good talk.

    So, thanks for posting the Gulliver reference.

    Blake

    thats just one onc out of 10000, every opinion will be different
    if you sail through chemo, the six months of treatment maybe better.

    i just found my onc's so chemo focused and they should be , but not aware of other alternative supports that are complex in themselves.

    if you get those odds mate then cheat a little with whatever suits to move into the 15% group. surely the stage4 odds are are way better now with erbitux and the long term remissions.

    pete
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member

    thats just one onc out of 10000, every opinion will be different
    if you sail through chemo, the six months of treatment maybe better.

    i just found my onc's so chemo focused and they should be , but not aware of other alternative supports that are complex in themselves.

    if you get those odds mate then cheat a little with whatever suits to move into the 15% group. surely the stage4 odds are are way better now with erbitux and the long term remissions.

    pete

    Pete
    This is a long thread. What exactly were you responding to?
  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625 Member

    SmokeyJoe - Acid Vs Alkaline
    Hi Smokey,

    If you wish to do the Alkalizing things, best to do it with diet. The conflicts arise with the medics that Blood pH can't be altered an if it were, we would all die. Other parts of the body however do not get the pH regulated as rigorously as the blood, nor in the same manner, and most cancers occur in other parts of the body than the blood.

    You may wish to buy some litmus strips and test your Saliva and Urine. Mine all tested around high 5's to mid 6's in late 2009. Neutral pH is 7.0 Below that is Acidic and above is Alkaline.

    I'm not going to bother with the 'Does it work or not' here, you have make that your own decision. So, there are foods that 'Acidify' your body, and those that 'Alkalize' it. Some are very different to what you may expect i.e. Citrus is an acidic food, BUT it has an Alkalizing effect on your body. So eating Alkalizing foods in the right amount, and reducing the acidifying foods, will help you body get to an Alkaine state (over 7.0). THey say for disease free people, to eat 60/40% Alkalizing foods, while those with disease or wnating to fend off a recurrence (us), then go 75/25 -80/20.

    I have done the major diet change and my body is now slightly Alkaline. I feel great and all my previous ailments including :Headaches, Gout, Fibromyalgia (Joint and Muscle pain), and avcid reflux are all gone. After 30 years of suffering, that is a relief I can tell you.

    Best not to rely on a pill or powder to change you body pH. Use diet. Funnily enough, most of the Alkalizing foods are also on the same list as the 'Good' foods recommend in most Anti-Cancer diets (most fresh friuts and veges). Similarly, all the bad Acid producing foods are on the DO NOT EAT list of the same diet: Meats, Sugars, alcohol, processed foods. You can do a simple search and you will get websites with list of Acidizing foods and the alkalizing foods. Find one and print it off and stick it on your fridge(Here is just one of many: http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html

    From all the studies i have done and am still doing, a common thread among long term survivors is that that changed their diet. These common changes are going mostly or all Vegetarian, get pof processed foods, sugars and fried foods, and consume fresh fruits, veges, pulses and whole grains. REgardless of what you believe, people who use this diet are generally, statistically and clinically healthier that those still on the SAD (Standard American Diet) as punted by the FDA.

    So if you want to do it, do it with diet, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

    Best regards
    Scambuster

    PS Not wishing to complicate things, but you may wish to do the same search and print for the 'Anti-Angiogeneis' Food list. These foods are shown to reduce the ability of the cancer cells to trigger the genesis of their own blood vessels which is critical for the advance of Cancer. Not a bad arrow to have in your quiver and funnily, many of the same foods appear.

    Interesting- Scambuster
    I found the acid/alkaline explanation very helpful- thank you!

    Lisa
  • Scambuster
    Scambuster Member Posts: 973
    Buckwirth said:

    Scam
    That does raise a question, the most alkaline area of the body is the colon (thanks to the pancreas), so how come we have cancer? Also, our cancer spreads mostly through the lymph system, which is the blood, so how does raising the alkaline help that?

    Btw, the most acidic part of the body is the stomach, so why is this not the leading site for cancer?

    Can you explain how these "other parts of the body" get their alkaline from food? What is the mode of transmission from the stomach?

    Can you show a direct relation of the alkaline of your saliva to the alkaline of the lungs or the liver? For those of us on this board, those are the most likely spread sites, so that information would be useful as we make lifestyle decisions.

    Funny you point to the anti-angiogenisis foods. The drugs mentioned in Lenz's letter ARE the anti-angiogenesis family of drugs that William Li has promoted. As noted in the letter, they did not work for stage 3 (and it should be noted that they failed in stage IV breast cancer as well). How is eating those foods (a basic good diet by the way, no harm in eating it) going to make that different?

    Here are a couple of websites on blood PH (not cancer related, so the authors are not trying to prove a point):


    http://www.anaes.med.usyd.edu.au/lectures/acidbase_mjb/causes.html
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_happens_if_your_blood_pH_levels_are_too_high_or_too_low
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkalosis

    Real questions Scam, do you have answers for them?

    Best regards,

    Blake

    Buckwirth
    Let me translate the first sentence in my 3rd paragraph: “I am not interested in pissing contests”.

    Your stream of posts appear to be mainly that. I prefer to spend my energy in helping those who have a broader vision, and wish to take their fight for survival and recovery to a different level - and not rely only ‘what their Doctor says’. You can cut n paste and cherry pick all you want if that makes you feel good. Sorry if I am not impressed.

    If you are truly interested in these questions you ask, go and search for the answers. I can tell you what I did and what worked, and what significant benefits I have gained through using diet and nutrition. As for the reactions of foods as they pass through the body being all a known thing, well the complexity of the multitude of reactions and interactions is probably like trying to make a list of every chess move ever possible and it's not 'all' done by any stretch, making it difficult to 'scientifically prove' these reactions and how such processed or metabolism is reflected in an outcome of the bodies condition.

    If you see this as me simply avoiding your questions, that's OK with me.

    If you haven’t yet worked out the link and importance of nutrition to our health and survival Buckwirth, I wish you the well.

    Scam
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member

    Buckwirth
    Let me translate the first sentence in my 3rd paragraph: “I am not interested in pissing contests”.

    Your stream of posts appear to be mainly that. I prefer to spend my energy in helping those who have a broader vision, and wish to take their fight for survival and recovery to a different level - and not rely only ‘what their Doctor says’. You can cut n paste and cherry pick all you want if that makes you feel good. Sorry if I am not impressed.

    If you are truly interested in these questions you ask, go and search for the answers. I can tell you what I did and what worked, and what significant benefits I have gained through using diet and nutrition. As for the reactions of foods as they pass through the body being all a known thing, well the complexity of the multitude of reactions and interactions is probably like trying to make a list of every chess move ever possible and it's not 'all' done by any stretch, making it difficult to 'scientifically prove' these reactions and how such processed or metabolism is reflected in an outcome of the bodies condition.

    If you see this as me simply avoiding your questions, that's OK with me.

    If you haven’t yet worked out the link and importance of nutrition to our health and survival Buckwirth, I wish you the well.

    Scam

    Scam
    Pissing contest? Really?

    My questions are real, and if you are truly interested in health and diet you would balance the claims you make against the questions I asked.

    The best way to avoid diet related cancers? Stay at a healthy weight, the link between obesity and cancer is very well documented. A healthy diet and regular exercise will help with that. As I have said, there is nothing wrong with promoting that.

    "You can cut n paste and cherry pick all you want..." and apparently you can make spurious claims with no evidence all you want. I provide my sources, feel free to criticize and given one, but saying that I cherry pick and leaving it at that is defamatory.

    Here is what I believe about you, please correct me if any of this is wrong, I have asked you before but you did not answer:

    You had a stage one/two cancer of the throat. It was surgically removed and you had subsequent chemo and radiation. Based on that, there is a better than 90% chance that you were cured.

    At around the same time you changed your diet and began using TCM and other alternative remedies for something you no longer had. Now you make claims that this "worked" for you. Worked how? Cured you of cancer? Prevented metastasis?

    You patrol these boards and jump in with an authoritative voice and say things that some people want to hear.

    You make a blanket statement about Turmeric as a booster for chemotherapy, but leave out the warning from Sloan-Kettering that it has the exact opposite effect on cyclophosphamide in treating breast cancer, could be an issue with other treatments, and a warning to not use in conjunction with chemo.

    If you want to claim that a alkaline diet changes the PH in other parts of the body, you should be able to answer which parts and how it gets there.

    I do find it disturbing that you cannot answer simple questions.
  • mom_2_3
    mom_2_3 Member Posts: 953 Member
    Interesting
    Lisa,

    Interesting article and subsequent discussion. When first diagnosed I did daily saliva ph tests and made a concerted effort to concentrate on more alkaline food. My ph went from about a high 5 (acidic) to a high 6. I tested it at the same time each morning after waking up and prior to brushing teeth or eating anything which impact my saliva. I drank lemon-infused water and would also use alkalinity drops when lemons weren't available. I have never been under the impression that this act would cure my Stage IV cancer but it was hard to find a negative. And if nothing else, even if I was mis-guided in my approach, I had a feeling of being proactive in my cancer battle. In addition to that I juice every day and take a number of supplements. The most important thing I do (from my perspective) is exercise. I workout 7 days per week (5 days intense cardio with interval training to elevate my heart rate constantly between 60 and 90 % of max heart rate. I do that for an hour. I also use a personal trainer the other two days of the week and do weigh training with supersets and keep my heart rate elevated to about 55% max heart rate the entire time. My doctor told me the best thing I could do to prevent recurrence was exercise. I don't take her advice lightly.

    As far as food, I am a careful shopper and bring into our home foods with minimal processing and the fewest ingredients. This does not mean our household is deprived. I love steak and my husband is a mean griller. So we have steak every three weeks. I love ice cream. We take the kids out for burritos and ice cream every Friday, but I only have ice cream every 4th time and even then I share with my littlest one. I do not feel deprived and I would be hard-pressed to listen to anyone that said what I was doing was silly. If all this doesn't help me battle cancer, it is hardly a destructive or deprived lifestyle.

    I find it interesting that some of our friends will put anything in their bodies, without a thought to the ingredients or processing method of that food. Then, they will turn around and buy high test or 93 octane fuel for their cars "cause it keeps gunk out of the engine and the car works better." Their words, not mine. They will rotate their tires on a regular basis, get their oil changed regularly, keep their fluids tapped off, keep their tires properly inflated, etc. And then they turn around and completely ignore their body's maintenance and well-being. If these weren't friends I cared about I would find it almost comical. But I do care about them so when I have opportunity I share with them the things I am doing and if they are "lucky" to be with me when I am juicing, they get a 20oz glass, on the house.

    Amy
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member
    mom_2_3 said:

    Interesting
    Lisa,

    Interesting article and subsequent discussion. When first diagnosed I did daily saliva ph tests and made a concerted effort to concentrate on more alkaline food. My ph went from about a high 5 (acidic) to a high 6. I tested it at the same time each morning after waking up and prior to brushing teeth or eating anything which impact my saliva. I drank lemon-infused water and would also use alkalinity drops when lemons weren't available. I have never been under the impression that this act would cure my Stage IV cancer but it was hard to find a negative. And if nothing else, even if I was mis-guided in my approach, I had a feeling of being proactive in my cancer battle. In addition to that I juice every day and take a number of supplements. The most important thing I do (from my perspective) is exercise. I workout 7 days per week (5 days intense cardio with interval training to elevate my heart rate constantly between 60 and 90 % of max heart rate. I do that for an hour. I also use a personal trainer the other two days of the week and do weigh training with supersets and keep my heart rate elevated to about 55% max heart rate the entire time. My doctor told me the best thing I could do to prevent recurrence was exercise. I don't take her advice lightly.

    As far as food, I am a careful shopper and bring into our home foods with minimal processing and the fewest ingredients. This does not mean our household is deprived. I love steak and my husband is a mean griller. So we have steak every three weeks. I love ice cream. We take the kids out for burritos and ice cream every Friday, but I only have ice cream every 4th time and even then I share with my littlest one. I do not feel deprived and I would be hard-pressed to listen to anyone that said what I was doing was silly. If all this doesn't help me battle cancer, it is hardly a destructive or deprived lifestyle.

    I find it interesting that some of our friends will put anything in their bodies, without a thought to the ingredients or processing method of that food. Then, they will turn around and buy high test or 93 octane fuel for their cars "cause it keeps gunk out of the engine and the car works better." Their words, not mine. They will rotate their tires on a regular basis, get their oil changed regularly, keep their fluids tapped off, keep their tires properly inflated, etc. And then they turn around and completely ignore their body's maintenance and well-being. If these weren't friends I cared about I would find it almost comical. But I do care about them so when I have opportunity I share with them the things I am doing and if they are "lucky" to be with me when I am juicing, they get a 20oz glass, on the house.

    Amy

    Amy
    Juicing is a great (and sometimes fun) way to get essential nutrients! And there are great studies that show a huge benefit of exercise for those in remission. For my part I fully support anyone who adds these things to their daily routine, cancer or no.

    It also sounds like you have a sensible diet plan to go with it.

    Keep it up!

    It's great to see that you are NED! May you stay that way forever!
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    lisa42 said:

    turmeric
    Blake,

    I did google turmeric and chemotherapy, which I have also done before. You are right in that there are several articles talking about how turmeric can inhibit the apostosis of cancer cells while being taken with the chemo cisplatin. It talked about how it can be a problem with breast cancer (because breast cancer patients are generally who take cisplatin). I then found another article, interestingly, that in head and neck cancers, turmeric can actually boost the effectiveness of cisplatin.

    I discussed these finding with my oncologist. He felt because there were many studies showing the benefits of turmeric as an anticancer agent but that because it could possibly interfere with chemotherapy, he felt the timing of when it is taken is what is important. One of the articles i read also mentioned something like that.
    He has me stopping all supplements 24 hours before I get an infusion and not resume them again until at least 24 hours has passed after getting unhooked from the 5FU pump.

    So, that is the advice I've been following as of late.

    It certainly is not that I don't want to see research, it's just that I think by posting one article is not fair when there may be other articles or studies that state things differently. I want to look at all the sides. That definitely does make things confusing, but then at least we see the different sides, who's done the research, how, what their angle or bias might be, etc.

    Lisa

    I am doing the same thing
    Hi lisa,

    I am doing the same thing with supplements around chemo. especially laying off tumeric supps until 17th april as its last chemo day.

    I loved your answer,

    Pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member

    thats just one onc out of 10000, every opinion will be different
    if you sail through chemo, the six months of treatment maybe better.

    i just found my onc's so chemo focused and they should be , but not aware of other alternative supports that are complex in themselves.

    if you get those odds mate then cheat a little with whatever suits to move into the 15% group. surely the stage4 odds are are way better now with erbitux and the long term remissions.

    pete

    was for your loved it post above
    sorry its not next to it

    Pete
  • jscho
    jscho Member Posts: 62
    Buckwirth said:

    Scam
    Pissing contest? Really?

    My questions are real, and if you are truly interested in health and diet you would balance the claims you make against the questions I asked.

    The best way to avoid diet related cancers? Stay at a healthy weight, the link between obesity and cancer is very well documented. A healthy diet and regular exercise will help with that. As I have said, there is nothing wrong with promoting that.

    "You can cut n paste and cherry pick all you want..." and apparently you can make spurious claims with no evidence all you want. I provide my sources, feel free to criticize and given one, but saying that I cherry pick and leaving it at that is defamatory.

    Here is what I believe about you, please correct me if any of this is wrong, I have asked you before but you did not answer:

    You had a stage one/two cancer of the throat. It was surgically removed and you had subsequent chemo and radiation. Based on that, there is a better than 90% chance that you were cured.

    At around the same time you changed your diet and began using TCM and other alternative remedies for something you no longer had. Now you make claims that this "worked" for you. Worked how? Cured you of cancer? Prevented metastasis?

    You patrol these boards and jump in with an authoritative voice and say things that some people want to hear.

    You make a blanket statement about Turmeric as a booster for chemotherapy, but leave out the warning from Sloan-Kettering that it has the exact opposite effect on cyclophosphamide in treating breast cancer, could be an issue with other treatments, and a warning to not use in conjunction with chemo.

    If you want to claim that a alkaline diet changes the PH in other parts of the body, you should be able to answer which parts and how it gets there.

    I do find it disturbing that you cannot answer simple questions.

    curcumin references
    Buckwirth, I don't participate much in this forum as I don't care for the general ambiance. I am a scientist, and have a difficult time not being skeptical (like you?). I have posted before on alkalinity, sugar and a number of other things that irritate me. That said, my approach to dealing with cancer has been to research options like supplements (which are not likely to ever enter clinical studies) and lifestyle changes (exercise, etc..) to see how they might impact disease. If a supplement has demonstrated some benefit in laboratory studies and is not harmful at low dosages, I'm willing to try it. Curcumin falls into that category, in spite of the warning from Sloan-Kettering. I know it does interfere with irinotecan, but research articles suggest it can enhance the effectiveness of FOLFOX chemotherapy, and, in particular, can target cancer stem cells. See

    1. "Curcumin enhances the effects of 5-fluorouracil and oxaliplatin in mediating
    growth inhibition of colon cancer cells by modulating EGFR and IGF-1R", Int. J. Cancer: 122, 267–273 (2008)

    2. "Synergistic Role of Curcumin With Current Therapeutics in Colorectal Cancer: Minireview", Nutrition and Cancer, 61(6), 842–846 (2009)

    3. "Elimination of Colon Cancer Stem–Like Cells by the Combination of Curcumin and FOLFOX1", Translational Oncology Vol. 2, No. 4, 321-328 (2009)

    Best,
    Jeremy
  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    jscho said:

    curcumin references
    Buckwirth, I don't participate much in this forum as I don't care for the general ambiance. I am a scientist, and have a difficult time not being skeptical (like you?). I have posted before on alkalinity, sugar and a number of other things that irritate me. That said, my approach to dealing with cancer has been to research options like supplements (which are not likely to ever enter clinical studies) and lifestyle changes (exercise, etc..) to see how they might impact disease. If a supplement has demonstrated some benefit in laboratory studies and is not harmful at low dosages, I'm willing to try it. Curcumin falls into that category, in spite of the warning from Sloan-Kettering. I know it does interfere with irinotecan, but research articles suggest it can enhance the effectiveness of FOLFOX chemotherapy, and, in particular, can target cancer stem cells. See

    1. "Curcumin enhances the effects of 5-fluorouracil and oxaliplatin in mediating
    growth inhibition of colon cancer cells by modulating EGFR and IGF-1R", Int. J. Cancer: 122, 267–273 (2008)

    2. "Synergistic Role of Curcumin With Current Therapeutics in Colorectal Cancer: Minireview", Nutrition and Cancer, 61(6), 842–846 (2009)

    3. "Elimination of Colon Cancer Stem–Like Cells by the Combination of Curcumin and FOLFOX1", Translational Oncology Vol. 2, No. 4, 321-328 (2009)

    Best,
    Jeremy

    Add to the list, the March/April 2011 issue of a magazine
    called "Life Extension", with the cover exclaiming: "How Curcumin Combats Cancer"

    This pub sells sups and herbsbut the articles seem well-documented....A health food store where I live has some informative free mags tho their products are overpriced....

    Just noticed a website listing:wwwlifeextensionretail.com tho i don't know if it only contains products to buy or if it includes articles and as I'm starving and need energy.....


    Dr Servan- Schreiber refers to curcumin in his noted Anti-cancer book on pages 114-116 and suggests taking with pepper with it
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member
    jscho said:

    curcumin references
    Buckwirth, I don't participate much in this forum as I don't care for the general ambiance. I am a scientist, and have a difficult time not being skeptical (like you?). I have posted before on alkalinity, sugar and a number of other things that irritate me. That said, my approach to dealing with cancer has been to research options like supplements (which are not likely to ever enter clinical studies) and lifestyle changes (exercise, etc..) to see how they might impact disease. If a supplement has demonstrated some benefit in laboratory studies and is not harmful at low dosages, I'm willing to try it. Curcumin falls into that category, in spite of the warning from Sloan-Kettering. I know it does interfere with irinotecan, but research articles suggest it can enhance the effectiveness of FOLFOX chemotherapy, and, in particular, can target cancer stem cells. See

    1. "Curcumin enhances the effects of 5-fluorouracil and oxaliplatin in mediating
    growth inhibition of colon cancer cells by modulating EGFR and IGF-1R", Int. J. Cancer: 122, 267–273 (2008)

    2. "Synergistic Role of Curcumin With Current Therapeutics in Colorectal Cancer: Minireview", Nutrition and Cancer, 61(6), 842–846 (2009)

    3. "Elimination of Colon Cancer Stem–Like Cells by the Combination of Curcumin and FOLFOX1", Translational Oncology Vol. 2, No. 4, 321-328 (2009)

    Best,
    Jeremy

    Thanks Jeremy
    Despite how it looks, I am not anti-supplement.

    As to Turmeric, it shows great promise. Without knowing which chemotherapies it helps though (thanks for the links) advocating it's blanket use with chemo is irresponsible (in my opinion, that is what Scam did, though in another conversation).

    Scouty (Lisa P.) did something that makes eminent sense: If you are on Chemo and doing supplements, supply a list of everything you are taking to your Oncologist and have them run it by their pharmacy, looking for drug interactions to your current treatment.

    If it clears, have at it. No harm, no foul.

    While we are barred on this forum from recommending treatment options to others, often when we discuss what methods we have used we are putting a stamp of approval that has the same effect as a recommendation. If it is something where there is firm science to show that it is ineffective (not a clinical trial, rather where the biology just does not work the way it is claimed) someone should point that out.

    If I remember correctly, you are a biologist, right?

    Can you answer the questions I posed to Scambuster? I would be interested in actual answers to those questions.

    Thanks,

    Blake
  • Tricia02
    Tricia02 Member Posts: 129
    Buckwirth said:

    Amy
    Juicing is a great (and sometimes fun) way to get essential nutrients! And there are great studies that show a huge benefit of exercise for those in remission. For my part I fully support anyone who adds these things to their daily routine, cancer or no.

    It also sounds like you have a sensible diet plan to go with it.

    Keep it up!

    It's great to see that you are NED! May you stay that way forever!

    Hear hear blake
    I have just spent such a long time reading this thread, I am now knackered! It's 12.30 am in London so I will be brief here as I need my beauty sleep. I agree with everything Blake has said, as he understands the subject so well. I have no desire to get into a peeing contest! But I really think some of you miss the point entirely. And I am not going to try where Blake failed. I do not agree with quakery of any description and trust the science myself. I was diagnosed with stage 2 nasal septum carcinoma. I did "dip" into some research about various dietary changes. Luckily I live with a man who is somewhat the mad scientist! He helped me through treatment and life after treatment. He helped me maintain a sensible way of thinking and not get carried away with all the quakery that one reads about alternative cancer treatment. I had a very good eating regime for many years prior to being diagnosed with cancer, plenty of exercise and a healthy slim physique. I ate loads of curcumin and other Indian spices, but still got cancer! The problem is this, as I see it, lots of people seem to make weird claims of diet and the fact their cancer has gone, and give very little creedance to the conventional medicine. I applaud my MDT and the treatment I received. I do not attribute my recovery to the litre of gorgeous blended fruit etc I drank everyday. For me the conventional treatment worked, I am today cured. What I would say is during treatment I wasn't just fighting cancer I had to stay fit enough to endure the treatment, which is often very punishing emotionally and physically and supplementing my diet to ensure I had adequate vitamins and minerals was constructive to give me the best possible chance for the conventional medicine to work. I cannot say whether or not I would have been able to respond as well to treatment if I had not worked at giving my body the best chance for staying strong, during this chemical physical and psychological onslaught that conventional treatment can often be. Being overweight is one of the major contributory factors in being diagnosed with cancer. Therefore, it is isn't rocket science to avail oneself of a sensible and balanced diet and lifestyle, simple changes is at that's required nothing radical. I ensure I eat 2/3 fresh vegetables daily with my meals, together with a couple pieces of fruit, so no hardship there lol. I love chocolate and have learnt to modify that. All this mumbo jumbo about foods and changing alkaline/acid levels is in my opinion nonsense Put simple, the body takes in raw materials as food, extracts vitamins/minerals as required and dumps the rest. Acid and alkaine levels throughout your body are maintained by your metabolism and not based on what you consume. I have not seen evidence here of Blake personally attacking anyone or guilty of any of the things that have been slung at him. It does seem that certain people just want to shoot the messenger though. So that's it from me. Conventional medicine, and I had loads of it, saved my life and I shall be eternally grateful. Love reading your posts Blake, keep em coming. Apologies for rambling, as I started off by saying I am very tired and just bashed this reply really fast.
  • Erinb
    Erinb Member Posts: 293
    smokeyjoe said:

    So, for his blood work
    So, for his blood work prior to chemo. treatments they would check his ph??

    No We checked ph just for
    No We checked ph just for the heck of it. The ph strips can be purchased at a health food store. If an alternative can't hurt and isn't expensive-why not see what or if anything makes a differnce in CEA numbers. Just don't try to change too many variables at once HA HA