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ARE WE OVER ZEALOUS AT TIMES....IT IS A CONCERN OF MINE PLEASE CHIME IN.

RE's picture
RE
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Joined: Feb 2004

Over Zealous? I hope I do not hit a nerve; however I am pretty sure I am going to, but hey this board is supposed to be for open minds and understanding so here goes. If those of us who are believers have found a home here, a comfort level here, if we have found a place where we can openly discuss our illness on the many cancer boards that are provided for that purpose why would we also feel the need to perhaps be over zealous in our response to others. Recently I read a post from a newcomer who was expressing fear and asking for answers, answers regarding cancer, answers that could perhaps soothe her for the moment. The first two responses were from believers and they strongly stated how God would help this person, how God would be there for them and aide them in their cancer walk if they only believed. I have a strong faith and consider myself a born again Christian; however those responses irritated the dickens out of me even though they were heartfelt responses. Here was someone asking for answers to a very serious problem they have suddenly found themselves dealing with and what they got was hard core Christian wisdom. I do not wish to sound like a non believer because I most certainly am not, however I do know that when someone comes here looking for cancer help that is what they should get, being told God will help them does not help them to deal with how afraid they are, it does not answer the questions and concerns that they have and it very well may scare them away from a site that has so much to offer. God does help, that is true but we still die and no amount of faith will change that (unless of course we are alive come Armageddon) so I try to answer these folks with cancer knowledge that I have gotten from my cancer walk and figure if they are looking for religious answers or faith based answers they can always visit this board. If witnessing is on the agenda one can always get to know someone more personally via the email system CSN provides and that way if they are open to your faith it can be comfortably shared without accidentally chasing off those in need. Again please do not be offended, it is an observation I have made and I decided to write about it when someone else made a somewhat similar observation to me the other day. I would hate if my faith chased off people in need and/or those people who could help those in need, that is not what my faith is about. Sorry for the ranting but had to get this off my chest.

Respectfully yours,

RE

CanadaSue's picture
CanadaSue
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RE,

I know exactly how you are feeling, and from which board this arises. Last spring we went thru the same thing and this board was started to accomodate those who wished to share their faith. We lost a few good people over that, and it was a real shame as they were great contributers to the board.

I to am a Christan, but do not feel the need to broadcast it on a cancer board, just as I do not feel the need to post on facebook that we have lost another family member to this beast. I guess it must make them feel impowered to rush out and post these things. I for one do not want to read that on facebook, as I go there to get away from cancer for a while.

I, like you come here for answers, and to see if they have come up with any new treatments ect... My hubby Bill has stage IV colon cancer, and has been thru a lot over the last 4 years.

Phil couldn't have said it any better - doctors deserve credit for the work they do to.

Time to get off my soapbox....

Have a great day RE!

Hugs,

Sue

RE's picture
RE
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Joined: Feb 2004

Hi Sue,

I have actually seen this on different occassions on different boards, the instance that I am referring to actually occurred on the expressions gallery to a newbie looking for support and direction. I have yet to see this person post again and now I cannot find the original post, frustrating.

I wanted to tell you that I like your photo, it reminded me of a trip our family took in "98". I was battling stage 4 breast cancer and going to see Mount Rushmore and the Indian mountain (cannot recall the real name of the site) was on my bucket list. I was between chemo's, I guess you would call it a chemo break :-) and I had a tiny bit of hair so I wore a baseball cap during much of the trip. It was a wonderful absolutely amazing trip with my family and twelve years later I am still here. I hope things improve for your husband and yourself and I hope you find some of the answers you are seeking. There is much to be gained from this site, great people, great support and a wealth of knowledge.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post, I wish you and your husband all the best.

RE

CanadaSue's picture
CanadaSue
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RE,

The monument is Crazy Horse, just down the road from Mount Rushmore. A very peaceful place to visit. We travelled there a couple of years ago. We have finally gotten around to taking all the trips we kept saying we one day would.

It sure is great to see you have made it this far, and are still going strong!

You rock girl!

Sue

Marcia527's picture
Marcia527
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Joined: Jul 2006

Some people are over zealous. They carry it too far and don't realize it. It's called wearing their faith on their sleeve. Really it should not be on the sleeve but in your soul. It is my belief that they are misguided. I know others will disagree but I'm just stating my belief. I don't think belief in God needs to be pushed.

This is why we need you, RE, on the boards. :>)

I have my own theories...which I'll keep to myself. I think we all need to find faith, not be told what it is.

RE's picture
RE
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Marcia your posts are often short and yet they often carry such wisdom. I love what you said about wearing your faith in your soul rather than on your sleeve, you are a gem my friend!

♥ RE ♥

John23
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Joined: Jan 2007

Thanks.

Glenna M's picture
Glenna M
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I've had the same experience myself on several occasions. I am a believer and appreciate all of the people who have said they will keep me in their prayers. What I do not appreciate are the people who preach their beliefs when all I am looking for is advice or encouragement. I'm sure they mean well but it is not helping any of us who receive this type of response. I try to keep God and religion out of my responses except to tell someone that I will keep them in my prayers. I posted a picture of my great grandson on the Expressions Gallery and had someone type in a reply that I could contact them for any Christian questions I may have, not sure what this had to do with the picture I posted?? I did notice that they went back a couple of days later and deleted their comment. As I said, I'm sure they mean well, but the cancer forums are not the appropriate place.

RE, I also wanted to let you know that I have read all of your posts and responses and find you to be a very strong, caring person. We could use a lot more people like you on this site as you help everyone you respond to. I also love all of the photos you post.

Stay strong and keep smiling,

Glenna

papajedi's picture
papajedi
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I really am a dog person so love the pic. At this point I'm sorry you have to be exposed to [deleted by CSN staff]. I've read all the posts here about faith and they are in no way wrong are offensive [to me][added by CSN staff], so keep the "faith" and above all keep sharing :)

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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This is a great post.
regards
-phil

PS: I removed most of my reply.

RE's picture
RE
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Joined: Feb 2004

Hello Phil,

I read your original post, just have had a rough day not feeling well and did not responds at the time that I read it now I cannot recall all you said and you had many a good points that you made. I do tell people that I will pray for them when they request prayer and I most certainly do pray for them with my all heart, but only when asked I try not to make anyone uncomfortable.

Keep writing and posting Phil your opinion matters and I always enjoy reading what you have to say even when I do not agree with it.

Hope you have a great weekend!

RE

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soccerfreaks
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I find it both wryly amusing and sadly ironic that someone has chosen to flag phil's post of 01/29 for removal. I must assume that someone found the post so catastrophically offensive that the only way to save the world from its insidious notions was to have it erased from etherland completely.

I read it and did not burst into flames, was not struck by lightening, did not feel the earth shake beneath the foundation of home, but perhaps, at least with respect to the last of those, I live in Pat Robertson's neighborhood, more or less.

I would be curious, really curious, to know what someone found offensive in the post. Even if you do not agree with it, what did it contain that could possibly offend? And what is it about his posts, this one and others, that strike one as 'anti-faithful' and 'hateful'?

Most of what he says about religion is pretty much accepted discourse, even among, especially among, the most devout theologians, philosophers, and scholars: A belief in the existence of God requires a leap of faith; the good news is that that leap requires no precedent in logic; the bad news is that that leap requires no precedent in logic. Which is to say that there is no scientific method for establishing the existence of God, that the personal experience of God cannot be replicated through any experiments devised by man to date.

He does not say that God does not exist. He says that, based on what he has to work with so far, he doesn't KNOW if God exists. I am in the same boat.

I consider RE a very good friend, good enough that we have had private e-chats about this very topic, and she is as tolerant of my beliefs as I am of hers. I respect her tolerance and envy her faith. Faith makes life easier: the simplest of us must surmise that this is so if we are also honest. But there is nothing in the rule book that says that faith is correct, most notably because there is no rule book.

(Before anyone suggests that the bible is the rulebook, let's dismiss that at once as being a circular argument, using A to prove B to prove A, as it were. Besides, it is certain that the bible was created by man, and even astonishingly, that the books of the new testament were not written by the men whose names they bear.)

But, lest I diverge, I came to praise phil and not to bury him :). I find him neither 'anti-faith' nor 'hateful' and certainly do not find that post a candidate for flagging. If I were going to flag anything, it would be the small-minded knee-jerk reactionary efforts of someone who finds that anyone who disagrees with them should have their ideas erased. As a lovely lady once reminded someone who apologized for disagreeing with her in another of these boards: "If I only wanted to hear from people who agreed with me, I wouldn't be posting," or something to that effect.

Anyway, great top post, RE! You and I both know that those who need to get the message will be the last to do so, but it is worth the try and I salute you for your courage. As another respondent notes, you rock, girl!

Take care, all,

Joe

RE's picture
RE
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I did not realize Phils post was flagged, I read both of your posts earlier but did not respond because I am a bit under the weather today and instead I went to see the doc (yes I know just the other day I told you I was staying away from them...so I guess I fibbed.) Anyway now his post is gone by his hand. It was a thought provoking post and I too did not burst into flames when I read it nor did I faint. It simply gave me another view to ponder. What would the world be if we all thought the same, boring I think.

I thank you for you kind words, I too consider you a good friend someone I hold dear (and occasionally pray for LOL!) All kidding aside I hope those that prompted me to write this will take the time to at least read it.

As always my best to you and yours,

RE

RE's picture
RE
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Joined: Feb 2004

Thank you for your insight, I wrote it here because hopefully those of faith come here from time to time. The original post that prompted me to write was in the expressions gallery. I myself frequent the breast cancer board and I must say we all seem to get along quite well. THere have been times when issues have arisen but we have handled it well and gotten beyond it and back to the matter of helping one another.

You make a good point that rather than over zealous it could be a lack of understanding or a lack of social graces, that too may be the case on occasion. I just hope folks will think about what they are about to post and to whom and where that person is emotionally at the time. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my post it is much appreciated!

RE

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Re and Kathy (and Joe too),
Thanks for your support. Everyone is trigger happy with the flag button. There have been more flags because of this that I saw over at the United Nations. You two (sorry Joe..) not only are Christians, but you act like Christians. Too bad others only wear the label and not what goes with it. As long as there are 2 people or more on earth, let alone on a public cancer forum or any other forum that is not religion based, religion will find it's way on to it and those who proselytize will continue to do so because (their) God told them to do it. I agree with the comments you made about social graces or manners. Some people lack them. Some people are not real good at the internet either so they are not aware that you can email someone and not tell them what you want through a public post.

The site always has it's ups and downs and always will. There are times and places for various discussions too. That seems to be another sticking point with many. I'd love to see the majority of the posts on the colon cancer forum be about colon cancer. I guess I'm funny that way. That is not to say at all that someone can't say that I'll pray for you, or please pray for me. That is not what all of that was about by any stretch of the imagination.

If we could only harness this power of the past few days we could light up the USA for a week!

Be well ladies (and Joe) and thanks for the great post. It's nice to know people who "get it".
-p

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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Hi RE: You make a very interesting point.

I agree that on a public forum we should be more mindful of each other and respect everyone who is here; people reaching out are not always reaching for help from God. In accordance with why I believe the Bible teaches we should first tend to peoples physical needs whether it is information or monetary help, then secondary we should try and help with the spiritual, but only if they are willing. Never should any Christian try to force there belief, ways, or tradition on someone else, you can read the Bible from Genesis to Revelations and never find God forcing Himself on anyone.

There is great loss in the cause of Christ when Christians are seen in conflict, This Public forum is not a place for Christian to discuss there church doctrines, It is a place where we should be one in prayer and faith as they are both great tools in the Hand of believer.

On our doctors and medical institutions I do find I have a problem believing that they are the only source of help for someone with Cancer or any other type of illness. I believe God has givng them the ability to help heal our broken bodies and for this I am very grateful, but I also believe that there are other ways we can help our bodies. If I was a person who went only by what my doctors told me I would not be here today, that’s another story.

I find a lot of diversity in beliefs here on CSN and the need not to offend anyone is of great significance. We should all be open minded to the need of people asking help, but we should also not be afraid to ask if we can help by praying for them as well.

RE's picture
RE
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Hello Hondo, thank you for your response as I found portions of it quite interesting. I was a bit taken aback by your comment that since it is a public forum we as Christians should not necessarily discuss church doctrine yet we should be one in prayer and faith. That is a difficult one as my faith though it be Christian may be quite different to me than it is to you which is one of the reasons this discussion board was created. I strongly feel we should not be quoting scripture and such on the boards dedicated to individual cancers. I do not mean you cannot mention a scripture to a fellow believer by perhaps saying something general like "you may find John 3:16 interesting" but I don't think we should be posting and discussing what is in John 3:16, if someone is interested they can look it up, we should not be preaching even Christian to Christian on the discussion boards that are dedicated to individual cancers that is what the email system is for. If we wear our faith on our sleeve so to speak it can be a major turn off to others who do not have the same beliefs and they may feel they do not want to come back to a public site not a public Christian site that spouts religion they do not wish to be subjected to. This I find harmful as they will be denied the help they can obtain here, I cannot see how that is helpful to anyone and I know it is not what God would want me to be doing.

In regards to asking if we can help by praying for them I don't think we need to ask, we simply need to pray for them as it will have the same effect with the Lord weather they know we are praying or not. I have had folks ask me to pray for them and I have had folks ask me to send positive thoughts their way and so I pray that the Lord will send positive thoughts their way and I tell them positive thoughts (not prayer) are on the way. This site is so valuable and so needed to the masses of people out there who get cancer I do not wish my faith to ever cause even one to be chased away. I pray for everyone on this site every night, not just for healing but for comfort, friendship, strength, wisdom, answers, faith and of course for the cure.

I do agree that our doctors may not be our only source of help in our cancer walk, however they are my main source. There are physical therapists who help us a great deal, physco therapists who help us cope mentally, and of course the herbalists and such. I just feel we should use all these in conjunction with our doctors who certainly know their stuff and have been keeping me alive for 12 years now. I could go on about those that I know who turned their backs on the doctors and are no more (they were both devout) but as you say, that's another story. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond Hondo.

RE

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PhillieG
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I can't speak for Hondo but I interpreted his comment you noted "since it is a public forum we as Christians should not necessarily discuss church doctrine yet we should be one in prayer and faith" as that in the cancer section the focus should be on helping with info and support and less about spreading "the word" to one and all.
That's what I got out of his post. I think that everything is open for posting on the RSM forum, that's why this forum was created in the first place.

I've always felt that support can come in many ways. I also believe there are many paths to heaven/enlightenment/reincarnation...whatever school of thought a person subscribes to. I think that deep down we almost all agree, just sometimes the message gets delivered in a way that is not always the best way to get the message across. And yes, sometimes people can nit-pick (like I've been known to do) at how it was delivered.
-phil

RE's picture
RE
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Good point Phil, like I mentioned earlier if we all thought alike how boring it would be. I had not taken that thought path and that may very well be what Hondo was thinking, it simply is not how I read it. I agree that this forum is open to all discussion scripture quoting included which is what I intended to get across when I stated "I strongly feel we should not be quoting scripture and such on the boards dedicated to individual cancers." This forum is not dedicated to individual cancer's and I see it as somewhat of a think tank where we come to discuss a wide variety of religious views and bounce things off one another as I have done with this topic, I find this to be a good thing. Thanks for chiming in and giving us your point of view.

Enjoy your day,

RE

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PhillieG
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"I strongly feel we should not be quoting scripture and such on the boards dedicated to individual cancers."
I agree 100% with you.
Have a great day too. It's a sweltering 12 degree outside now.
I may do some gardening. I've got a hell of crop of icicles going on outside!
-p

RE's picture
RE
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Oh my where do you live Phil? I shall not complain about all our rain then. My husband is heading back to Arizona next week on business where it will be high 70s low 50, lucky dog that he is! Enjoy your gardening but don't farm so long you end up with frost bite.

RE

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PhillieG
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I'm in lower NY State. it's a toasty 30 degrees outside now, maybe we will take a walk during lunch today. It's nice and sunny out at least.
-p

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Glenna M
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I love to walk and try to get out each day for a half an hour, weather permitting. Most days I have to wait until 1 PM before the thermometer reaches double digits, the other morning it was minus 8 degrees when I got up - brrrrrrrrrr :-) I am anxiously awaiting spring. I live in west central NH, it's a beautiful state but definitely has long cold winters.

Stay strong and keep smiling,
Glenna

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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Sorry too much work and no time to play, just getting back and will be leaving again soon.

I don’t think there is a big problem with someone using scriptures as long as it does not offend someone, please understand where I am coming from here.

Some diseases are deeper then what we see, some are not just the physical but also spiritual. In reading the Bible sometimes Jesus would heal someone first by saying thy sins are forgiving, take up your bed and walk. Others all Jesus had to do was to just touch them and make the whole. In this same way some people need to hear or know more about God and that God cares for them, some are OK just knowing someone is praying for them, and others just need a “hope all is well” see you later.

I don’t think we should refuse the spiritual healing these people are in need of and give them just the physical we would be doing them a great harm. On the other hand if it offends someone then by all means I do agree it should not be used, God does not force himself on anyone, He gives us all a choice.

Just my take on what I see

Take care my friend

papajedi's picture
papajedi
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I hesitate as a rule to just quote/write scripture out in that formu simply as it feels like I'm preaching. I will usually paraphrase it into my own words plus it has more meaning usually, better way to express myself. Here we have more liberty, it's ok to be passionate about what good God has done in our lives :)

papajedi's picture
papajedi
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A pyschoherbalistictherapist ?

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Well put and thoughtful. Great post.
Thank you
-phil

papajedi's picture
papajedi
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you wrote...I believe God has givng them the ability to help heal our broken bodies and for this I am very grateful, but I also believe that there are other ways we can help our bodies. If I was a person who went only by what my doctors told me I would not be here today, that’s another story.

It's interesting because there are places in the gospels where the word power could also be translated :ability". In the verse where Jesus laid hands on the disciples and sent them into the countryside it should be translated "ability", he gave them his ability to heal ect. I have great doctors and have developed wonderful relationships with them. I get to share what God has done for me and we incorporate that into treatment:) They on the other hand have witnessed the healing done in my body and have been accepting and amazed by it.

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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Very true Jesus gave his follower the power or ability to heal, I too love my doctors and respect what they do, I just don’t think they are the only ones who can help or heal our broken bodies.

The Bible tells me in James 5:14 that when I am sick I should go the Elders and have them pray and anoint me with oil in the name of the Lord and the prayer of faith shall save the sick.

God has more then one way to help his children and I believe our doctors are one of those ways. I also believe that if we today had the Faith that the disciples of Jesus had there would be no need of doctors.

Just my belief

Take care my friend

RE's picture
RE
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Hondo since you are a believer you know that once the apple was taken off of the tree illness was inevitable and the medical field quite necessary. When I was first dx with cancer my pastor offered to do a laying of the hands ceremony where fellow believers led by my pastor would lay hands on me while led in prayer for my healing. I kindly opted out (which he probably figured I would) God knows I am ill and he walks with me through my illness, he holds me when I hurt and he rejoices when I heal. I was struck by your statement that we need to have the faith of the disciples, well my pastors wife had that kind of faith and she had stage 2 breast cancer. She allowed the surgery to remove the cancer, however she refused the chemo and opted for laying of the hands and prayer. She did okay for a bit, then it began to spread and she re-evaluated her decision and went to the oncologist to sign up for chemotherapy. As it turned out a cure was not to be because it had spread too much during the time chemo treatment was denied after a couple of years (time chemo bought her to be with her young children) she passed. God gives us free will and choices, sometimes we choose a path that does lead to a cure, this woman had more faith than anyone I have ever known and made the choices she did I suspect as a witness to her church family, it so saddens me . I will tell you that taking the chemo opened a whole new world to her, she found that by her faith and grace she was able to teach others about the Lord while chemo was being pumped into her veins, she is now in Heaven and the world is a little less light. I tell you this because I fear that people will seek non traditional medicine rather than life saving chemo as a statement of faith. I have no problem with non traditional medicine working in conjunction with traditional medicine as long as your oncologist is aware of it as you do not want to have a bad reaction of the mix. I do believe in miracles, I do! My second cancer was a stage four to the sentinel node and chest wall. I was to be given 18 rounds of chemo and ten more weeks of rads (which I did have) however after the first chemo the bulging mass in my chest which had been left there as a marker to see if the chemo was doing its job had went a way, disappeared it was gone! I was pleased because after all that is what the plan was to kill the cancer. The following week when I went to see my oncologist he was utterly shocked, he pressed hard on my chest where the mass had been and he looked at me in bewilderment because it was gone. I told him well isn't that what we thought would happen and he state yes it was but in all his years he had never seen it happen in one treatment. My best to you and yours, folks out there who consider not taking chemo please reconsider it is doable and it can extend your life.

RE

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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RE: are you sure it was an apple and not a lemon; it sure had been sour for mankind.

You asked a question and as I understand it why does God heal some people and not others, this too has always been one of my questions. Especially when I see so many good people dying of horrible diseases and I ask God why?

My Mother like your friend was a good Christian woman; she supported her church and sent all of her children to catholic school. All of her life she was faithful in everything she done, so why did she die of colon cancer at the age of 57 what not 67 or 77 or even 87. It’s been almost 30 years now and I still remember her and remember the things she taught me, I am sadden not to have her in my children’s life. She never prayed for herself to be healed, she always prayed for others to be healed, Why!

It is only now that I understand my Mother and her faith; she already knew whose hands she was in.

I believe that when these Christian people have finish there work here on this earth, God allows them to rest, it is not why they died but what they leave behind for others to follow that counts.

My Local Onclo dc knows what I am doing and monitors me every few months. He is a Christian man who I believe in and trust, as he told me when I finished my second treatment, Its all in Gods hand now I’ve done all I can do., sound just like my Mother speaking.

Take care

RE's picture
RE
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Lemon instead of an apple, perhaps. I am sorry for your loss even though it has been a long time I am sure you miss her. I am glad to hear your onco is working with you in conjunction with your non traditional care that is a good thing indeed.

Sorry if I misled you with my post, I was not asking why some folks die and others do not we all die sometime. I have never asked the why me question, if not cancer it would be something else. I was only making an observation that we have freedom of choice and sometimes those choices lead to our lives ending sooner rather than later.

My best to you,

RE

DennisR
Posts: 148
Joined: Sep 2009

I agree Hondo,
and have concluded, (after a lot of questioning of His infinite Wisdom and Compassion) that perhaps He doesn't consider death to be the worst thing that can happen to one of His children. I've realized a great deal of comfort from that conclusion through the recent loss of nearly my entire family, me being the last one standing out of seven, and more friends and acquaintences than I can count. Of the 12 Dear, Brave souls that were in the BMT ward at the time I was, only 2 of us are alive today, my young brother, only 47 yrs old w/a wife and three beautiful children, was Dxd and died in less than 4 months, only three days before I was to begin the BMT with less than 60/40 odds of surviving because of my age. I nearly backed out of the procedure, but asked Him for guidance and awoke in the morning with a clear course in my mind to continue and undergo the risky procedure. (Sorry...no voices, no burning bush...just an absolute knowledge that I would survive came to me in my sleep) I surprised everyone, not only did I survive, but recovered from the procedure more quickly than any patient they had ever had....they called me the miracle man)
The negative thought process regarding that inevitable and eventual outcome for all of us, is strictly a man made conclusion...Life is Good...Death is bad and to be feared.
I wish I could say that I've risen above that feeling, but Alas...I still resent and question the reason that so many are called, yet so few are chosen....and for what purpose does it all serve.
Sorry..this is a much longer comment than I had intended.

DennisR

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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Thanks for your post; I am sorry to hear about your lost, there memories live with us forever. The good news is that there is a day coming that we who have believed will all be together again. I want to share something with you, have you ever heard about the second death, I have no fear of the first death, my fear is in the second death recorded in Rev Rv:20:6 of which I want no part. The Bible is a storehouse of knowledge the keys of one book is what unlocks the other.

DennisR
Posts: 148
Joined: Sep 2009

Thank you, Hondo
for your kind thoughts and wise words....if there were ever any times when I found myself truly questioning the infinite Wisdom of the Lord, it was during those times when others were taken from this life that I believed should have been spared.
Years ago, I learned that I didn't really know how to pray, or even what was appropriate to pray for, and after a lot of personal thought came to the conclusion that when I prayed for something, or prayed to alter the outcome of something, the results were almost always not exactly that which I more or less ordered or demanded in my prayers.... and usually not to my liking.
I've since determined, (after a fair amount of trial and error), to keep my personal prayers to asking for the Wisdom to Accept His Will, and not ordering Him to accept mine. I've found this practice to be much more comforting when things did't work out just the way I thought or prayed they would.

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zahalene
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It seems that most of us are searching for 'the key' that will unlock peace, joy, hope, in our lives. I think you, Dennis, have come very close to finding it.
I too, for many years now, have concluded that prayer that asks for specifics or demands certain results is a dangerous thing. So many times I have been given what I asked for in ways that made the acquisition hard to take.
I believe with all my being that all of us (regardless of religious belief) have a spirit within us which can be our connection to a higher power, if we choose it to be, and that connection then becomes a path to what we seek. But that is not to say that the journey is always to our liking. How often can we suppose that, for the sake of argument for instance, being delayed by a flat tire put us out of the 'loop' for a car crash in the exact spot we would have been if not for the unexpected delay? I am only suggesting that things happen for a reason and just because we do not know or understand the reason does not make it any more or less applicable. Of course, there must surely be those times when that flat tire put us in the exact place at the exact time to become the victim of a drive-by shooting.
That is why I leave it up to a greater Power than mine to order things and pray only for the wisdom of acceptance.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4666
Joined: May 2005

The majority of posts in the spirituality forum have to do with Christianity. In one thread, a woman asked questions about reincarnation and her concern about meeting her late husband in the next incarnation and one person replied how "all of her answers were in the Gospel"*.
So that is a very big YES in answer to your question RE.

*thankfully the comment was removed

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mariam_11_09
Posts: 693
Joined: Nov 2009

so I have a question. This board is for spirituality, prayer and meditation so where does the religion come in?

One can be religious and not spiritual (ie more culturally based than spiritually)
One can be spiritual and not religious
One can be religious and spiritual

Most spiritual people have some form of prayer and meditation. And each religion has some form of mysticism - the Christians, Muslims, Buddhists etc.

Just curious. As noted above on these boards there is a strong Christian tendency so am curious to know how Christians view this. Or at least the ones on this board.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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To me there is a VERY big difference between religion and spirituality. YOU summed it up very well with your comment:
"One can be religious and not spiritual (ie more culturally based than spiritually)
One can be spiritual and not religious
One can be religious and spiritual"

To me, being raised catholic but now in recovery (as I put it) religion seems to be an organization where others of like belief can get together to discuss it and hopefully practice what is taught there. It also seems to me to be rules of the "what you can do and can not do".

Strong Christian tendency? Ya think so???

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mariam_11_09
Posts: 693
Joined: Nov 2009

It is a way of life governed by some external guidelines that if you follow them it will bring you closer or into the presence of God. As you mentioned a set of rules of what you can and cannot do. For some people this actually works, that is following the guidelines, going about these actions they eventually come to realise God in a deeper way. For others this does not work at all, a different approach is required, to realise God in a deeper way and then the actions start to reflect this. The later is usually more spiritually based from the start and former initially more religiously based eventually to become more spiritually based.

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RE
Posts: 4606
Joined: Feb 2004

Well I am afraid I disagree with you both, the old testament gave us the ten commandments to follow as God’s law, of course being the humans we are we failed. God knew we would, after all he is God. To allow forgiveness he sent his son Jesus to willingly die on the cross (at any time he could have reneged) and the pack was sealed those who choose to freely accept Christ as their personal Lord and Savior have their name written in the book of life those who choose not to do so take a different path upon death. The old testament was about rules, however once the Lord sent Jesus to die for our sins the rules are still there and yes they should be followed however your salvation is not revoked if you falter. As a follower of God we should have a respect for his desires for us and we should strive to behave in a Christ like manner. Now I know that is not always doable because we are human I certainly do not do it as Christ would like me to. It is my belief that someday we will have to stand before God and account for our life; I know this because I was witness to it as my sister did so the last day of her life. We will account for our wrongs and our rights, we will atone and if we have sincerely asked God into our lives we will be forgiven. I have always known there was a God, since childhood I have never not know it is just something that has always been there. I have felt his presence in a most personal soul reaching manner and I have disappointed him in that same soul reaching manner, but the Lord had never nor will he ever erase my name from the book of life as I know he is there and I know he is the creator of all that is or ever will be. He is the Alpha and the Omega of that I have no doubt.

Your Friend,

RE

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4666
Joined: May 2005

I respect your beliefs RE but they look to me that they are based on the belief that God, as understood from the bible, is the one and only being that all spirituality is based upon.

Do you believe that a person can be spiritual without being a believer in the christian God?

BTW: I believe in 7 of the 10 commandments.(that was part of a Steve Martin bit called "what I believe" from years ago)

I actually think they are mostly good common sense guidelines to live one's life. The golden rule is the main way I try to live my life, I know it's not a commandment. But just thinking now at what the 10 commandments are called...Commands. Pretty heavy stuff with dire consequences that are not followed that often it seems in many people's lives with the exception of thou shalt not kill.

RE's picture
RE
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Joined: Feb 2004

Who cannot smile when thinking of this man, he has a talent for putting a smile on ones face and heart. Yes, I agree the Old Testament when the ten commandments were created was a bit of a harsh time, (come to think of it it can be harsh even today.) Your question to me as to if one can be spiritual without being a believer in the Christian God is interesting and I truly am not sure how I feel about it. You are absolutely correct that I believe that God as understood from the Bible is the one and only God, but that does not mean one cannot be spiritual without him, simply not saved. This is a very deep conversation and one I had not intended to delve into online yet here I am. As I said before these are deeply rooted truths for me from as far back as I can recall. I was quite ill as a child and died or was near death on many occasions' before the age of 3. My daddy was a Navy Seal and had traveled the world and as a result has first hand knowledge of many other religions. He and I often had conversations on why I felt God was the only true God, somehow in the end I suppose he was persuaded as he is a believer himself as was my Mom prior to her death. It simply is a truth I know and have always known in my heart Phil, and I truly respect that you respect my beliefs as I respect your desires to expand your knowledge of religion as you know it.

All my best to you,

RE

dasspears
Posts: 233
Joined: Feb 2009

IMHO, spiritual is not the same as religious. Religions seem to be man made. I believe spiritural to mean believing in some sort of higher power as defined by that particular individual. While the Bible may be "dictated" by God, it was written by man, as were the other holy books. But people tend to forget that......

RE's picture
RE
Posts: 4606
Joined: Feb 2004

Hi Dass thanks for chiming in, that is what I love about this board we can all openly express our beliefs with the understanding that we can all learn from each other and/or learn how others see things.

My Best To You,

RE

dasspears
Posts: 233
Joined: Feb 2009

Thank you! Everyone is respectful and open - I really appreciate that. And I just noticed that I spelled spiritual wrong two times in my previous post!

RE's picture
RE
Posts: 4606
Joined: Feb 2004

Well PLEASE do not check my spelling you may faint! If I remember I copy my text and go to http://www.spellchecker.net/spellcheck/ which saves me quite a bit. Truly spelling incorrectly is fine with me so don't worry too much about it! Hope you have a wonderful weekend!

RE

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4666
Joined: May 2005

I like this section of the cancer site. Topics such as religion seem to be more suitable in here than in the middle of a post where someone wants answers to medical questions.
I find I learn new things all of the time here plus it gets me to think more.
-peace
-phil

Hondo's picture
Hondo
Posts: 5712
Joined: Apr 2009

We are all different and we have that freedom to be different, I too agree and I am glad that we can discuss our believe or non believe with out anyone getting angry at someone else, there is nothing worse then caricature assassination by people who think that they are the only one who is right.

Good picture Phil

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4666
Joined: May 2005

There have been some less than pleasant discussions that have broken out in other areas of the board. Here, we all know what we are here to discuss and there are differences of opinion. I think it's great. I certainly do not claim to have the answers at all but it's great to see how we all cope with cancer in our own way.

Glad you like the cartoon, it's a B Kliban one. I like his drawings, they crack me up. One has to laugh or try to find humor in life I feel.

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