Advice Requested
I went in today for another CEA test. My onc. has been watching CEA very closely (monthly tests) as it has been highly correlated with cancer in my case.
Unfortunately my CEA level has climbed from under 1.0 (5/8/14) to 2.0 (6/5/14) to 3.0 (today 7/7/14). My oncologist said this is likely a trend. However, he said that scanning right now would likely not be useful. He suggested that the scans would probably not be sensititive enough to see the cancer. If it had climbed to over 10 he would have recommended immediate scans.
My scans are scheduled for beginning of August. I'm leaning towards leaving as scheduled as that would have been the normal 3 month timeframe anyway.
What do you think? Scan now or beginning of August?
Also, I'm wondering if a diet change (vegan or vegetarian) and exercise are warrented? My family is pushing for this as well.
What are your thoughts?
Phil
Comments
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I think wait on the scan but
I think wait on the scan but follow your heart. Get the scan now if you are more comfortable though. Its hard for me to give good advice since CEA was never an indicator for me. I have steadily exercised and been vegan on and off since I was diagnosed. It cant hurt. Its hard to say if it helped since as you know I have had 3 recurrences although the diet and exercise might have slowed the growth since I had long periods of NED in between (18 months, 48 months, 18 months). Make sure you are at peace at whatever you decide.
I know you are a believer so it doesn't hurt to pray about it and see if a clear answer comes to you.
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Row row row our boat
I'm in the same boat as you, Phil. Monthly CEA to see if mine is going down after my liver ablation. Tomorrow I will find out my latest results.
Anyway, enough about me, to answer your question, I personally would wait. August is only one month away, and I think that wouldn't cause a huge growth if there was a met making an apperance.
As for diet, I would say its a balancing act. Don't deprive yourself of occasional treats (strawberries, cake and cream for me today) but choose healthier meals. As we're all too well aware, life is short, so enjoy your treats, but eating healthy is always a bonus. I've found a ton of wonderful, tasty recipes that don't make me feel at all deprived, and I have a chocolate or ice cream three or four times a week. I think its more about portion control too (Thats my downfall).
Exercise. You can't beat walking out in the fresh air. Just around the block, if you're out of shape. And yoga. Don't laugh! I know men think its for women, but its not. It really is good for the body. I have three Yoga for Cancer patients DVD's. Love them!
I'm more than happy to share my favourite recipe books and the names of the Yoga DVDs if you are interested.
I pray that your CEA is just going through fluctuation.
Blessings!
SUE/TRU
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wait for scan
Phil - Whenever my CEA climbs, the scans never really show anything until closer to 8.0, so I would wait for the scan. In my experience a good diet has slowed progression but never stopped it. That said, I've never gone vegetarian or vegan, but have cut out sugar and processed foods and bought organic whenever possible. Good luck to you, I hope this helps! Traci
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My CEA is also coorelated to
My CEA is also coorelated to the cancer. I always wanted action as soon as possible. If that meant surgery then great. I have changed diet but it is not vegan but does loose all white sugar that I can easily find. Eating smaller portions and trying to not get sugar spikes. I do exercise everyday walking. I hope that all goes well for you and I do know that sometimes CEA rose due to allergies or infection. My belief is that I always have these cells with me and I want to play a long game of whack a mole ( or weeding ) when those areas pop up I want whatever I can get to whack them back. Best always
Chip
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Wait
If your CEA is a good indicator then you should probably wait. Some get the scan to early and it might just not show up. Exercise is always a plus even if you don't have medical issues. It's got to be a scary place to be in. You are in my prayers.
Kim
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Increasing cea and CA 19.9
My trend after the second recurrence and second liver resection surgery done recently - April 2014 is as follows ;
The liver resection was done on 17th April 2014 , two and a half. prior to this report.CEA is
6.5 ( July 2014)
2.9 ( may 2014 post liver resection) ,
6.5 ( March 2014 - pre surgery)
4.7 ( February 2014)
And
CA 19.9 is
18.9 ( July 2014)
11.3 (may 2014 post liver resection) ,.
12.6 ( March 2014 - pre surgery )
9.6 ( February 2014)
should i I also wait another month for the scan or get one done ASAP !
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Thank you all for your input.
I am going to try and cut out sugar. No products with lots of sugar. I'm also going to cut out white bread and stick with whole wheat. And try to minimize this as well. I'm also going to watch portions and buy more organic and fresh, local foods. And I'm going to exercise daily. Yesterday I walked through 9 holes of golf and as humid and hot as it was that was pretty good exercise. I am also going to cut out all carbinated beverages and drink a lot more water. Actually, there are not many drinks free from sugar and artificial sweetners. So, black coffee and water will be my main drinks.
Bless you all today.
Phil
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Sounds like a planPhil64 said:Thank you all for your input.
I am going to try and cut out sugar. No products with lots of sugar. I'm also going to cut out white bread and stick with whole wheat. And try to minimize this as well. I'm also going to watch portions and buy more organic and fresh, local foods. And I'm going to exercise daily. Yesterday I walked through 9 holes of golf and as humid and hot as it was that was pretty good exercise. I am also going to cut out all carbinated beverages and drink a lot more water. Actually, there are not many drinks free from sugar and artificial sweetners. So, black coffee and water will be my main drinks.
Bless you all today.
Phil
I especially think that cutting out the soda is going to be benificial. There are heaps of sugar in sodas, and diet soda is just not good for you. They don't know half of what artificial sugars do to our bodies.
Do you guys have a bread machine? Its so easy to make homemade bread with one, and then you know exaclty what is in the bread.
Good luck with everything. And keep us informed about the CEA.
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Diet and Exercise
Phil,
I would recomend going on the Mediterranian diet. Reduce as much as possible sugar and white flour. Also drink green tea and use Tumeric . Exercise as much as you can. I also take supplements ( aspirin,fish oil, resveratrol,grape seed extract, multivitamin, and Co-Q-10) Avoid stress.This has worked for me. I was Stage 4 and have been NED for over 5 years. Good Luck!
Randy
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good course of actionPhil64 said:Thank you all for your input.
I am going to try and cut out sugar. No products with lots of sugar. I'm also going to cut out white bread and stick with whole wheat. And try to minimize this as well. I'm also going to watch portions and buy more organic and fresh, local foods. And I'm going to exercise daily. Yesterday I walked through 9 holes of golf and as humid and hot as it was that was pretty good exercise. I am also going to cut out all carbinated beverages and drink a lot more water. Actually, there are not many drinks free from sugar and artificial sweetners. So, black coffee and water will be my main drinks.
Bless you all today.
Phil
Phil - This sounds like a good, reasonable and, most important, doable course of action. I wish you luck with the new regimen. The withdrawl from sugar doesn't last too long. I'm still eating natural sugar in the form of fruit so that helps with any sugar cravings. I also stopped all carbonated beverages and don't miss them anymore.
For me, I've been going to different malls to walk, not shop, since they are air conditioned. It's be close to 100 here for the last week, although no humid thankfully!
Good luck! Traci
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I've added many foods fromRandy33 said:Diet and Exercise
Phil,
I would recomend going on the Mediterranian diet. Reduce as much as possible sugar and white flour. Also drink green tea and use Tumeric . Exercise as much as you can. I also take supplements ( aspirin,fish oil, resveratrol,grape seed extract, multivitamin, and Co-Q-10) Avoid stress.This has worked for me. I was Stage 4 and have been NED for over 5 years. Good Luck!
Randy
I've added many foods from the Medditeranian. Basmati rice is amazing and a better replacement when you still want rice. Also love Jasmine rice.
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I would vote wait for the
I would vote wait for the scan because if you do one now, nothing shows up, you have to wait more months for another one. I know diet causes debates on here buy I'm throwing out my opinion anyway based on my latest reading. Don't go vegan or vegetarian go healthy. I didn't give up sugar but I did give up junk. I still eat cookies but now they are Trader Joes Almond and 5 seed cookies and they are delicious! I only eat natural products, no additives or preservatives. 7 grain bread with tuna is da bomb. I'm all organic and my chicken is grain fed. I dob't eat red meat now and I feel lighter. Grain fed chicken tastes so much better! Someone pm'd me that going vegan or veggie is risky because if it wasn't a lifestyle you learned before you were sick, you'll probably get more sick trying now and possibly do more harm than good She didn't want to start an argument on the boards. I agree with her. There is a lot involved. Also I blend, not juice. Blending keeps the fiber which aids in balancing out the natural sugars. (The Bullet is amazing and you just throw in fruits you like, add coconut or almond milk, vanilla extract, organic coconut flakes if you like texture. Delicious!) That's why fruit is better than a cookie. Juicing removes the fiber. I've been reading so much on food websites and blogs. It's harder than it looks. I gave up soda14 years ago but now I've also given up iced tea and Snapple. Go for it Phil! You'll feel more in control . Sadly BBQ is a carcinogen, none of that for me. I did keep one indulgenge. Hot dogs. I eat a nitrate free, 100 percent beef one at parties. I bring my own and boil it. They have grain fed ones in stores like whole foods fairways and trader joes. Read the labels at trader joes, they double talk sometimes. I like Fairway the best. I never buy their prepared foods, it's all junk. I opted not to give up dairy but I did give up milk. I eat organic vanilla yogurt or cottage cheese with grapes. Surprisingly yummy! I always add either coconut milk , coconut water or almond milk to my shakes. I also drink almond milk in place of cows milk. Nature provides delicious foods. You just have to go to the right stores to buy them and spend the extra. Need a junk fix. All of these stores carry chocolate chip cookies made fromm 100% natural products. Also there are 100% fruit frozen pops. Look up top 50 colon fighters, eat them often. Coconut water although it tastes gross to me is a natural hydrant and cancer fighter and better than just plqin water. Also although I respect local grown if theyre not pesticide free, I won't buy it. They should respect my body the same way I respect their family's livelihood. I am not putting anything in my body that can kill me.
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actions
Here, mild exercise intensity. We prefer nutrition as lower carb diet, low starch veggies with fish and white meats, healthier fat/oils (IMO: butter, coconut oil, olive oil) with targetable supplements including fruit extracts when on task.
Plan A, we suppress biomarkers that reflect cancer processes with chemistry. We monitor multiple biomarkers, use immune stimulation, suppress inflammation, carpet target molecular pathways with the mild, cheap things like LEF and others do, and do lite daily oral chemo. We include a variation of the ADAPT strategy (daily oral chemo + celecoxib). Since my wife is CEA and CA19-9 positive, with peaks in serum CA19-9 and has overexpressed CA19-9 tissue stains, she does targeted cimetidine to prevent metastasis.
Plan B, we wait for imaged target(s) and cut/remove as needed. Might make lists and stock pile treatment resources (particular specialists and NCI centers) for different options/sites. $ and insurance usually dictate the rotation and spacing of MRI, CT, PET/CT scans.
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waitetanstaafl said:actions
Here, mild exercise intensity. We prefer nutrition as lower carb diet, low starch veggies with fish and white meats, healthier fat/oils (IMO: butter, coconut oil, olive oil) with targetable supplements including fruit extracts when on task.
Plan A, we suppress biomarkers that reflect cancer processes with chemistry. We monitor multiple biomarkers, use immune stimulation, suppress inflammation, carpet target molecular pathways with the mild, cheap things like LEF and others do, and do lite daily oral chemo. We include a variation of the ADAPT strategy (daily oral chemo + celecoxib). Since my wife is CEA and CA19-9 positive, with peaks in serum CA19-9 and has overexpressed CA19-9 tissue stains, she does targeted cimetidine to prevent metastasis.
Plan B, we wait for imaged target(s) and cut/remove as needed. Might make lists and stock pile treatment resources (particular specialists and NCI centers) for different options/sites. $ and insurance usually dictate the rotation and spacing of MRI, CT, PET/CT scans.
My personal advice is waite. As some of you might remember I refused chemo and radiation , after my left hemi operation, there were free radicals, but I changed my diet and have been NED ever since.
I make my own yoghurt, eat Rye bread which I bake myself, whole milk and real butter. Juice vegetables twice a day and eat, chicken, turkey and Salmon, but cheat at least 1 day during the week.
Drink lots of water and spice up with cinnamon and real cacao ( anti toxins) . Blue berries and apples.
These are the basics ofcourse there is more. My CEA remains around 1.0 and has been a good indicator. I also walk every day, but because of deteriation of spine I cannot walk longer then 20 minutes or stand more then 5 minutes.
Marjan
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Way to go, HelenHelen321 said:I would vote wait for the
I would vote wait for the scan because if you do one now, nothing shows up, you have to wait more months for another one. I know diet causes debates on here buy I'm throwing out my opinion anyway based on my latest reading. Don't go vegan or vegetarian go healthy. I didn't give up sugar but I did give up junk. I still eat cookies but now they are Trader Joes Almond and 5 seed cookies and they are delicious! I only eat natural products, no additives or preservatives. 7 grain bread with tuna is da bomb. I'm all organic and my chicken is grain fed. I dob't eat red meat now and I feel lighter. Grain fed chicken tastes so much better! Someone pm'd me that going vegan or veggie is risky because if it wasn't a lifestyle you learned before you were sick, you'll probably get more sick trying now and possibly do more harm than good She didn't want to start an argument on the boards. I agree with her. There is a lot involved. Also I blend, not juice. Blending keeps the fiber which aids in balancing out the natural sugars. (The Bullet is amazing and you just throw in fruits you like, add coconut or almond milk, vanilla extract, organic coconut flakes if you like texture. Delicious!) That's why fruit is better than a cookie. Juicing removes the fiber. I've been reading so much on food websites and blogs. It's harder than it looks. I gave up soda14 years ago but now I've also given up iced tea and Snapple. Go for it Phil! You'll feel more in control . Sadly BBQ is a carcinogen, none of that for me. I did keep one indulgenge. Hot dogs. I eat a nitrate free, 100 percent beef one at parties. I bring my own and boil it. They have grain fed ones in stores like whole foods fairways and trader joes. Read the labels at trader joes, they double talk sometimes. I like Fairway the best. I never buy their prepared foods, it's all junk. I opted not to give up dairy but I did give up milk. I eat organic vanilla yogurt or cottage cheese with grapes. Surprisingly yummy! I always add either coconut milk , coconut water or almond milk to my shakes. I also drink almond milk in place of cows milk. Nature provides delicious foods. You just have to go to the right stores to buy them and spend the extra. Need a junk fix. All of these stores carry chocolate chip cookies made fromm 100% natural products. Also there are 100% fruit frozen pops. Look up top 50 colon fighters, eat them often. Coconut water although it tastes gross to me is a natural hydrant and cancer fighter and better than just plqin water. Also although I respect local grown if theyre not pesticide free, I won't buy it. They should respect my body the same way I respect their family's livelihood. I am not putting anything in my body that can kill me.
Thats one succinct post. Love every word of it.
Have you tried making your own yogurt? Its a doddle. Use whole organic milk.
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Third recurrence after second liver resectionthingy45 said:waite
My personal advice is waite. As some of you might remember I refused chemo and radiation , after my left hemi operation, there were free radicals, but I changed my diet and have been NED ever since.
I make my own yoghurt, eat Rye bread which I bake myself, whole milk and real butter. Juice vegetables twice a day and eat, chicken, turkey and Salmon, but cheat at least 1 day during the week.
Drink lots of water and spice up with cinnamon and real cacao ( anti toxins) . Blue berries and apples.
These are the basics ofcourse there is more. My CEA remains around 1.0 and has been a good indicator. I also walk every day, but because of deteriation of spine I cannot walk longer then 20 minutes or stand more then 5 minutes.
Marjan
It has been less than three months after my second liver resection and my CEA AND CA19.9 markers were elevated.
i just got a sonography / ultrasound done and - there u go ! A 4 cm lesion in segment 7 - a new one !
the resection was done in segment 4 b earlier and this seems a new one. No chemo was prescribed after the resection by the tumour board.
well, now the doc says that we will do an MRI and then determine what to do next - if the said lesion can be ablated then they would do that - bur if there is more than one lesion than it is back to chemo !
Has as anyone got a third liver reaction done in such a short time ! Of three months from the previous reaection ?
How many resections can one keep on doing ? Any advise
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Third recurrence after second liver resectionthingy45 said:waite
My personal advice is waite. As some of you might remember I refused chemo and radiation , after my left hemi operation, there were free radicals, but I changed my diet and have been NED ever since.
I make my own yoghurt, eat Rye bread which I bake myself, whole milk and real butter. Juice vegetables twice a day and eat, chicken, turkey and Salmon, but cheat at least 1 day during the week.
Drink lots of water and spice up with cinnamon and real cacao ( anti toxins) . Blue berries and apples.
These are the basics ofcourse there is more. My CEA remains around 1.0 and has been a good indicator. I also walk every day, but because of deteriation of spine I cannot walk longer then 20 minutes or stand more then 5 minutes.
Marjan
It has been less than three months after my second liver resection and my CEA AND CA19.9 markers were elevated.
i just got a sonography / ultrasound done and - there u go ! A 4 cm lesion in segment 7 - a new one !
the resection was done in segment 4 b earlier and this seems a new one. No chemo was prescribed after the resection by the tumour board.
well, now the doc says that we will do an MRI and then determine what to do next - if the said lesion can be ablated then they would do that - bur if there is more than one lesion than it is back to chemo !
Has as anyone got a third liver reaction done in such a short time ! Of three months from the previous reaection ?
How many resections can one keep on doing ? Any advise
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New threadsdp said:Third recurrence after second liver resection
It has been less than three months after my second liver resection and my CEA AND CA19.9 markers were elevated.
i just got a sonography / ultrasound done and - there u go ! A 4 cm lesion in segment 7 - a new one !
the resection was done in segment 4 b earlier and this seems a new one. No chemo was prescribed after the resection by the tumour board.
well, now the doc says that we will do an MRI and then determine what to do next - if the said lesion can be ablated then they would do that - bur if there is more than one lesion than it is back to chemo !
Has as anyone got a third liver reaction done in such a short time ! Of three months from the previous reaection ?
How many resections can one keep on doing ? Any advise
sdp, why don't you start a new thread with your news. I know people will respond, and you need the thoughts and prayers of your friends here.
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???sdp said:Third recurrence after second liver resection
It has been less than three months after my second liver resection and my CEA AND CA19.9 markers were elevated.
i just got a sonography / ultrasound done and - there u go ! A 4 cm lesion in segment 7 - a new one !
the resection was done in segment 4 b earlier and this seems a new one. No chemo was prescribed after the resection by the tumour board.
well, now the doc says that we will do an MRI and then determine what to do next - if the said lesion can be ablated then they would do that - bur if there is more than one lesion than it is back to chemo !
Has as anyone got a third liver reaction done in such a short time ! Of three months from the previous reaection ?
How many resections can one keep on doing ? Any advise
Not quite sure what happened here. Sorry!
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Thank you Helen. I reallyHelen321 said:I would vote wait for the
I would vote wait for the scan because if you do one now, nothing shows up, you have to wait more months for another one. I know diet causes debates on here buy I'm throwing out my opinion anyway based on my latest reading. Don't go vegan or vegetarian go healthy. I didn't give up sugar but I did give up junk. I still eat cookies but now they are Trader Joes Almond and 5 seed cookies and they are delicious! I only eat natural products, no additives or preservatives. 7 grain bread with tuna is da bomb. I'm all organic and my chicken is grain fed. I dob't eat red meat now and I feel lighter. Grain fed chicken tastes so much better! Someone pm'd me that going vegan or veggie is risky because if it wasn't a lifestyle you learned before you were sick, you'll probably get more sick trying now and possibly do more harm than good She didn't want to start an argument on the boards. I agree with her. There is a lot involved. Also I blend, not juice. Blending keeps the fiber which aids in balancing out the natural sugars. (The Bullet is amazing and you just throw in fruits you like, add coconut or almond milk, vanilla extract, organic coconut flakes if you like texture. Delicious!) That's why fruit is better than a cookie. Juicing removes the fiber. I've been reading so much on food websites and blogs. It's harder than it looks. I gave up soda14 years ago but now I've also given up iced tea and Snapple. Go for it Phil! You'll feel more in control . Sadly BBQ is a carcinogen, none of that for me. I did keep one indulgenge. Hot dogs. I eat a nitrate free, 100 percent beef one at parties. I bring my own and boil it. They have grain fed ones in stores like whole foods fairways and trader joes. Read the labels at trader joes, they double talk sometimes. I like Fairway the best. I never buy their prepared foods, it's all junk. I opted not to give up dairy but I did give up milk. I eat organic vanilla yogurt or cottage cheese with grapes. Surprisingly yummy! I always add either coconut milk , coconut water or almond milk to my shakes. I also drink almond milk in place of cows milk. Nature provides delicious foods. You just have to go to the right stores to buy them and spend the extra. Need a junk fix. All of these stores carry chocolate chip cookies made fromm 100% natural products. Also there are 100% fruit frozen pops. Look up top 50 colon fighters, eat them often. Coconut water although it tastes gross to me is a natural hydrant and cancer fighter and better than just plqin water. Also although I respect local grown if theyre not pesticide free, I won't buy it. They should respect my body the same way I respect their family's livelihood. I am not putting anything in my body that can kill me.
Thank you Helen. I really appreciate you sharing your analysis and oppinions with me.
I am going "healthy" so far... Read a little about Mediterranean diet. My wife is joining me in this change. We are trying to eliminate processed foods and sugars and white flour products. We are opting for whole grains, organic, more veggies and fish, a little chicken / turkey, a very little red meat. I have also cut out completely soda pop and carbonated beverages. And I have splurged on a glass of red wine on a few occasions. We are also trying to pay more attention to portions and may be joining weight watchers soon as well.
We are also adding in walking everyday (between 1/2 hour to 1 hour) and riding bikes everey week (between 5 to 10 miles). And we are trying to do some calisthenics as well (e.g. pushups, situps, dips, stretches).
So far so good. I'm feeling good about ADJUSTING. And thankful I posted this call for advice as well.
Thank you everyone.
0
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