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Chemo boosts the immune system

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

Yes you read it right, 100mg cyclophosphamide daily in 2 X 50mg doses, one week on one week off.

Depletes T-reg, stimulates NK cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16960692

MTD of cyclophosphamide = 3500mg daily (in children)

John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

Re:
"Therefore, metronomic regimen of cyclophosphamide does not only
affect tumor angiogenesis but also strongly curtails
immunosuppressive regulatory T cells
, favoring a better control
of tumor progression."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16960692

Isn't the answer -no-, chemo does not strengthen the immune system,
it simply stifles the power of the "T regulator" cells?

It should be noted that:
"T cells are a type of white blood cells called lymphocytes. They
make up part of the immune system. T cells help the body fight
diseases or harmful substances."

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003516.htm

And :
"Regulators of the Immune System:
Regulatory T cells (Tregs) are critical to the maintenance of
immune cell homeostasis as evidenced by the catastrophic
consequences of genetic or physical ablation of the Treg
population. Specifically, Treg cells maintain order in the immune
system by enforcing a dominant negative regulation on other
immune cells. Broadly classified into natural or adaptive
(induced) Tregs; natural Tregs are CD4+CD25+ T-cells which
develop, and emigrate from the thymus to perform their key role
in immune homeostasis. Adaptive Tregs are non-regulatory CD4+
T-cells which acquire CD25 (IL-2R alpha) expression outside of
the thymus, and are typically induced by inflammation and disease
processes, such as autoimmunity and cancer.

Precise understanding of the immunosuppressive mechanism of T
regulatory cells remains elusive, although there is increasing
evidence that Tregs manifest their function through a myriad of
mechanisms that include the secretion of immunosuppressive
soluble factors such as IL-9, IL-10 and TGF beta, cell contact
mediated regulation via the high affinity TCR and other
costimulatory molecules such as CTLA-4, GITR, and cytolytic
activity. Understanding the mechanisms by which Treg cells exert
their influence is an area of intense research with broad
implications for the development of therapeutic strategies for
many disease processes including cancer, diabetes, and Immune
mediated diseases."
http://www.ebioscience.com/knowledge-center/cell-type/t-regulatory-cells.htm

Using chemicals to stifle T cells may help chemicals kill cancer tumors
(and other good cells along with it), but it does nothing to "strengthen the
immune system"; it actually does the opposite, by interfering with
the immune system.

In my opinion, stifling any part of the immune system can lead
to problems of a magnitude that might not be possible to resolve.

Better health to all,

John

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

"Surprisingly, this metronomic CTX regimen does not inhibit but on the contrary dramatically enhances T and NK cell functions through its suppressive effect on Treg number and function." I have the full article.

Actually it seems depleting T-reg helps the invisible tumour become visible, so maybe, like AIDS, the immune system needs corrected.

check this one out; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2330026/pdf/1479-5876-6-12.pdf

Take note of patient 14.

BTW it's all chemicals John, we are electro/chemical beings.

ron50's picture
ron50
Posts: 1267
Joined: Nov 2001

You have not convinced me. Cyclophosphamide,cyclosporin and imuran have been hanging over my head for some time. My nephrologist wants to put me on cycclosporin for protein-urea of the kidneys. Because My protein loss will not stay consistently above 3 gramms a day technically he is not allowed to prescribe it. On the other hand he can give me as much cyclophosphamide as he wants. He described the drug as the nuclear waste of the pharmacy world. Cheap ,very nasty,very effective but with more side effects than you can list. These drugs are some of the front line in use for organ transplants. They are used to fight immuno-rejection. I am not going on any of these drugs,a line has to be drawn in the sand at some point. I would rather go slowly with liver failure than to have any of these drugs take out an organ ,throw up some weird and rare form of ca of some equally nasty condition. I recently had my yearly suncancer check. My suncheck doc asked me how I was going with my kidneys ,he has had to remove some nasty micro-nodular basal cell from my face that he believes were brought on by methotrexate use. He told me of one of his patients,a long term heart transplant survivor. He said that when this guy takes off his shirt he looks like frankenstein he has had so many squamous and basal cell sun cancers removed. One of the very reasons I am not willing to take these drugs is that I have done my time with cancer ,I am not going to help it have another shot at me. I have auto immune disease of an undiagnosed nature. Perhaps my own rampant immune system not only attacks a lot of good stuff ,perhaps it is one of the reasons I have remained ca free for nearly fifteen years..... Ron.

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

Not trying to convince anyone, we are all adults.
I found this was really counterintuitive and worth checking.

All drugs have side effects, but this metronomic regime is 70 x less than MTD.

Congrats on 15 clean years...and I'm convinced it is your immune system keeping you clean.

John23
Posts: 1832
Joined: Jan 2007

That's a lot of reading, but one needn't have to go beyond the
opening to decide between "restrict or boost":

"Background:
Cognate immunity against neoplastic cells depends on a balance between effector T cells
and regulatory T (Treg) cells. Treg cells prevent immune attack against normal and neoplastic cells by
directly suppressing the activation of effector CD4+ and CD8+ T cells. We postulated that a recombinant
interleukin 2/diphtheria toxin conjugate (DAB/IL2; Denileukin Diftitox; Ontak) may serve as a useful
strategy to deplete Treg cells and break tolerance against neoplastic tumors in humans."

Using chemicals to interfere with the working of our immune system
does not solve a problem - not for "long term", anyway.

They are attempting to regulate and limit the normal controls and
processes of our immune system. Stifling the T-reg cells that are there
to keep T cells from attacking what it shouldn't be attacking, does not
sound like the best of interests (to me).

Of course, this may be a great break-through, and be a major step
towards curing cancer..... But I think they said the same thing about
Methotrexate and it's use in both Arthritis and cancer....

It's just my idle observation, but it appears (to me), that when they
can't resolve the real problem, they attempt to "adjust" the immune
system instead, by stifling it in one way or the other.

Stifling the immune system to cure a problem has never worked before.
The cash can roll in for this "trial" (Trial registration: NCT00299689 -Clinical Trials.gov Identifier),
and although I wish it well, I seriously doubt the re-uptake of failed direction
will do much of anything, but keep the industry's idle biologists on the payroll.

That is my opinion, anyway... and usually not worth much around here.

("I don't think the glass is half-full, or half-empty, I think the water's polluted!")

Best wishes for you,

John

manwithnoname
Posts: 390
Joined: Jun 2012

Patient 14 was well happy with his result, Im sure.

Maybe TCM has been doing this for millennia without actually realising it; www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/16/10/8343/pdf

Yup, more reading...;-) note the synergy.

"Altogether, our data indicate that CTX, on one hand, induces an immunogenic apoptosis within the tumor mass that acts as priming event for the induction of antitumor immunity through the release of large amounts of antigenic material and soluble factors recruiting and activating DC into the tumor bed, and, on the other hand, RESETS the host immune system, creating an excellent stage for homeostatic expansion of DC pools."

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