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fasting has anyone else tried this ? some new science

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

some of the science here.

http://www.lef.org/newsletter/2012/0210_Fasting-Retards-Tumor-Growth.htm?utm_source=eNewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Help&utm_content=TextLink&utm_campaign=2012Wk6-2

yes, i have and am looking at doing this, just a matter of when and how long.

just finsidhed a little baby two day fast and feel great.

after restarting digestion, normal output after 19 hours from my first meal.

hugs,
pete

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3387
Joined: Apr 2010

Fasting has been done since the beginning of time with the inability of the first peoples to catch food every day. Fasting is still done today in countries with famine and in religious rites.
I have to tell you as a cancer surviving person (so far, so good)that I'm not about to start fasting, nope, not jumping on the band wagon.
Someone asked me if I changed my whole way of eating and living just a couple of days ago. I told them as far as eating, when I was given four to six months, I GUARANTEE you I was enjoying my food to the utmost, chocolate ice cream with double chocolate fudge topping... BRING IT ON, chocolate glazed donut?? HELLO??? No question about it, savored EVERY SINGLE BITE.
Now since I discovered I wasn't going to die, I cut down on those decadent foods, however, I had chocolate ice cream with the before mentioned topping just last week, and a donut with chocolate glaze three days ago.
Fasting?? Um, thanks for the info, but I think I'm going to be busy enjoying a lobster and a side of steak now and then again and I'm just not ready to deny myself the enjoyment of life.
Good luck with it though, I'll be thinking of you tomorrow as I make pancakes, eggs and yep... even a slice of bacon.
I think shocking the body with so much stuff and surprise (such as Hey, you're not getting any food today, but let me load you up on my natural chemicals) can't be a good thing all the time. Just my opinion for my little ole' body.
Love at you,
Winter Marie
PS: Dang it, now I've got a craving for chocolate ice cream with fudge topping and am going to have to give in to the craving, I'll have to do a little extra exercise tomorrow to be sure
PSS: Those that are on chemo or recovery from surgery, PLEASE... DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!! (The ice cream and donuts for fattening purposes; YES, the fasting; NO!!)((Just my thoughts on the matter.))

thingy45's picture
thingy45
Posts: 565
Joined: Apr 2011

Hey Winter Marie, Iam with you all the way.How ever, my graving is more on the harty site, cheese, chips,dips, with occasional choclate. a glas of red wine to top it off.
I feel great and will not deny my body or my spirit the little pleasures of live. I am alive and plan to enjoy everyday I am alive.
I do juicing and watch the red meats. I do not believe in all the chemicals I feel that that is causing a lot of cancers, the chemicals in our food. My opinion.
Supplements for me are antitoxidants and antiinflammatories, at the moment it seems to work for me I do walk and swim and feel better then ever.
Hugs, Marjan.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

I will just dream of fudge and steak.

I have visitors this weekend, making buckwheat pancakes with real maple sauce for break, no bacon alas.

Different strokes, different folks. I have been to some amazing lectures on the science and art of fasting, what intriques me is our bodies ability to self canabise, we eat our tumors so the theory goes.

I will find out more on monday but will keep to myself unless their is some interest here.

I am getting a fair way off mainstream, I guess.

Hugs,
Pete

ps http://cancerdefeatedpublications.com/newsletters/Cancer-Loves-Carbs.html
this sounds reasonable to me, but again as we say whatever rocks our boats.

tommycat's picture
tommycat
Posts: 790
Joined: Aug 2011

Hey Pete--
Off subject, but you saying "whatever rocks your boat" couldn't have come from a more fitting source.(Thinking of how your rescue ended......)
Yow!
Anyway, good luck with the fasting and please report back :)

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

very very clever.
hugs,
pete

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3387
Joined: Apr 2010

I know how you feel about the red meat and the "chemicals", I know all the additives and antibiotics and hormones etc., etc., that they give the cattle nowadays worries me as well. So much has been written on it. When I was a child we ate wild meat that hadn't been "added" too. I wish I could have stayed on that all of my life and not just the beginning and partial middle of it, I personally think that would have made a difference in my having cancer, again my personal belief, I think I'm the only one in my family that when I left home at 17 no longer ate wild meat but instead ate processed from the grocery store, I am the first blood relative (my niece on my SIL's side had colon cancer, my SIL has breast cancer)in my family to ever be diagnosed with cancer and the only one that went about eating the processed meats.
Now I can find "organic" beef but it is soooo expensive. I have been attempting to buy organic chicken lately, but then again, the expense, so the best I have been able to do is talk to my children about feeding their children as much organic as they can.
Go figure that NOT giving the cattle or chickens or whatever additives in their feed and antibiotic shots just to give them antibiotic (the just in case theory they seem to have) shots would cost more??? What the heck? You think it would be cheaper not adding anything. Oh well.
I don't do supplements myself the main reason being is that I can't remember to take pills or powders and they would just sit in the cupboard anyway. But when it came to my favorite dog I would take him to the old veterinarian that was well versed in herbs for his arthritis and it did him well. I always thought I should be getting extra from the vet for my arthritis. I too, prefer a less chemical world especially when it comes to my family.
Having said all that, like you, as you can tell, I'm still going to enjoy my little pleasures of food now and then again (that means once in a while)in life as well.
Winter Marie

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

organic beef is expensive, but i am having it about once a fortnight.
goto cut back the tuna/salmon due to my mercury toxicity.

got a couple of organic chickens today for the family lunch,
luckily here they are not to much more expensive. only a couple of dollars and a little bit smaller.

hugs,
pete

son of hal
Posts: 117
Joined: Mar 2011

Wow Marie, back to your "little ole" self with the demeaning and devisive comments. Thanks for "sharing" your thoughts. If I'm not mistaken Pete asked if anyone had tried fasting, not "what are you doing". Everyone knows how you indulge in anything you want, you made sure in all the responses to Emily, Scouty and Lisa how dumb they were to bother with trying to be healthy. So now that you don't have them to criticize, you've moved on to Pete. You may have learned something in college but did you ever learn, "if you don't have anything nice to say, you shouldn't say anything at all"? Maybe you should prefice your indulgence by pointing out that you are currently on chemo for active cancer growth and you don't seem to care that NO studies have ever shown that an indulgent lifestyle benefits cancer patients in any way. Really, the only reason I even mention this is because you have criticized people right off this forum and I don't want Pete to think no one has his back. I applaud anyone that wants to survive bad enough to look beyond their prognosis and that includes you for making plans for the future when given a bleek outlook. What would you have thought if people constantly criticized you for wasting time going to college when you were not supposed to survive long enough to finish. Most people would think that was a foolish way to spend your last months or even years. But you seem to have persevered.
Anyway, please remember that you don't have to inform everyone that shares their plans or information how you disagree with what they believe or what they do. You can make your own post about how you live your life and how what you do is helping or hurting in your own journey with cancer. I'm only saying this because most of the people that would say something are no longer on here.
Sorry for the hi-jacking (off-topic) Pete.

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3387
Joined: Apr 2010

I was being humorous and at the same time trying to let Pete be aware that it was probably NOT a good thing to be doing over an article that he read.
That's called trying to "have Pete's back" as you put it, why? Because I care about him.
So sorry that you feel the way you do, but I certainly can't change that.
Winter Marie

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

That was unnecessary and divisive. Pete is here, offering his two cents and all are free to respond, especially if it is with humor and personal experience. As you say, this is Pete's thread, and it is his place to take umbrage to a response made to him. It is not ours to interpret ill intent on the behalf of others.

Blake

son of hal
Posts: 117
Joined: Mar 2011

Hey Blake- You know I've responded to you privatly but just for the record, there is a fine line between "humor" and mockery and that is how I interpreted WM's (first)reply. That's my opinion. She has no "personal experience" with fasting against cancer and her reply only seemed to "rub it in" Pete's face that she does whatever she wants and is no worse off than he is. THAT reply, to me, was unnecessary and mocking yet my response gets flagged even though I complimented her for her positive outlook. So Blake, while nothing here involved you, You also felt the need to "take umbrage" with my response to Winter when she had a perfectly good response herself. You guys sure stick together. Also Blake, as you said to me in a PM, "Pete is a big boy and can stand up for himself", well so is Marie and she did a fine job of it without you. Lastly, we all know, intent of written words is difficult to know without knowing the person who wrote them and therefore we MUST interpret them individually. Based on Winter's past criticizm of nutrition based posts her reply seemed mocking of Pete's search for weapons against cancer and like your response to me, I felt like replying to her reply.
There, Winter explained herself, I explained myself and Pete just keeps showing us that big grinn.
Take care all, and again, sorry Pete for the interuption.
CJ

janderson1964
Posts: 1496
Joined: Oct 2011

I took Winter Maries first reply as mockery as well.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

dear blake,

I hope you are getting the best care you can and that your days are great.
Maybe this will bring a small smile.

Has my discussion on fasting ( which is the absense of all nutrition ) actually gone someway
to demonstrating that nutrition ( diet ) has a role in surviving with our crc, and may i suggest even help some of us ultimately overcome our greatest challenge.

I still believe in the value of diet, and still appreciate all the opinions different to mine. i have learnt the most from so many friends here.

hugs,
pete

ps the differences of opinion here are our boards strongest asset, its actually the most we have to offer each other besides care and compassion.

gfpiv
Posts: 47
Joined: Apr 2010

Sounds interesting; had heard of this before, the science kinda makes sense I suppose.

HOWEVER, according to the below link, Dr. Longo, the study co-author, "suspects that the human equivalent of 48–60 hours of mouse fasting is about FIVE DAYS, based on glucose and growth factor concentrations".

So even if I were daring/crazy enough to put up with fasting for two days to test out the theory, there's NO WAY I could conceive of going without food for five days (short of a "cancer-free guarantee")!! Not that any oncologist would agree to it anyway...

http://the-scientist.com/2012/02/08/fasting-heightens-chemotherapy-benefits/

-Chip

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

Its just I did a end/colonoscopy yesterday, so the fast is built around that, it also fits in with digestive enzyme therapy as the absence of food in presence of gi enzymes is in theory suppsed to allow the coat in that cancer cells use to hide get eaten/dissolved.

Hugs,
Pete

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3387
Joined: Apr 2010

Just read the link that Marie (the other Marie) gave you and YIKES Pete, search both sides of the matter okay??? No sense in possibly PROMOTING more tumors from fasting.
And a little hint I learned in college, it is NOT a professional journal or site when they are selling something and LifeExtension that you found this on is SELLING tons of LifeExtension products. Be careful Pete.
And when you actually go to the source of the article (the scientific) they say MAY and have experimented with MICE and used it WITH chemotherapy, here's a quote concerning the mice not men;
"In mouse models of neuroblastoma, fasting cycles plus chemotherapy drugs—but not either treatment alone...."
Winter Marie

Lovekitties's picture
Lovekitties
Posts: 2878
Joined: Jan 2010

Here is what the American Cancer Society has to say on the subject:

http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/TreatmentsandSideEffects/ComplementaryandAlternativeMedicine/DietandNutrition/fasting?sitearea=ETO

Marie who loves kitties

Nana b's picture
Nana b
Posts: 2706
Joined: May 2009

Eat to live, not live to eat.

coloCan
Posts: 1835
Joined: Oct 2009

anything that didn't dsisgust me to get calories into me....I can't imagine deliberately NOT eating. I has read this report a few days ago (the cancers refered to in it didnot include CRC)and reminded myself this is just one study's conclusion. It really does not make sense to me just judging by what i had lived thru.....Plus, if its advisable to exercise , if possible, during TX, how can you do that without nutrition?

Here's some more "New science" some mite find useful:potential vaccine for advanced CRC being developed in Germany,called IMA910 at:

fiercebiotech.com/print/node/297085

and a "New Avenue for treating Colon Cancer" involving gene/protein HNF4A:
http://ucrtoday.edu/2951

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

so firstly just lets bring on our opinions.

i enjoy debate, not arguing, so lets keep to the facts as we see it.

whoever reads the thread can read and make their own choices, thats our responsibility.

As i am not own chemo, i am just doing prelimenary research on fasting. given i had to do 2 days for the colonoscopy anyway. clear both chicken soup counts as fasting to me.

so we all have fasted here, if you had a colonoscopy. this is my third so far. i like the cleaned out feeling to be honest, have had a bit of a nap over the last few afternoons.

now yes turning a 2 day medically ordered fast into a 20 day alternative fast a bit of a jump. but yes i am researching the how, when, how much, what , where. i know people who have done these fasts and beaten their cancers. i have shook their hands and heard them speak. so i have a mix of personal exposure, over 18 months in the natural health circles and now some science.

now as for life extensions bias, well of course, but i find their research intriguing. i use their info and buy on iherb or puritans as i am on a budget. now some supplements they do really well ie mcp and vit E complex. anyway people can do their own homework.

scientific fasting and detoxing is what i am trying to perfect, so having my chelation therapy underway and my liver detox underway and my gut rebuild 50% complete means fasting and german hyperthermia is a little way off. i will let life, the cea, and ctc counts due end of feb determine the course of my treatment. as for conventional doc's well, nothing for me for another 10 weeks when i do another ct scan.

i am focused on having lowered my cea by that point, no harm in having a clear and positive goal. the other goal of course is to be able to do a dolphin and a headstand and a good back ache. these are all yoga based goals.

hey steve, did you see that word again germany, all these great crc breakthoroughs are coming out of europe. by the way when you lost 50 pounds during chemo, did you try aggressive gut rebuilds like progurt and gut rebuild powders. my kids have started making porgurt for me and the family powered up the progurt incubator tonight. cost $1000 for 6 months, just a little bit more then what i was paying and now we make supposedly the best probiotic yogurt ourselves 1 trillion strains. apparently some of the top cneter centers use progurt in their protocols, so really i am getting the benefit of the best products without having to goto these centers. have to research progurt a bit more. i look giving aussie companys with innovative ideas a go.

hoping this helps my gut, a few comments on my blog about progurt. yes i was pushed into this by my intergative gp. given i am buying whatever he recommends, he is not charging my any gap now for consults. i am his most obedient cnacer patient.

anyway back to fasting, i will post here when i get my worhtwhile research and make a decision. i am aware of the risks and don't want to loose of the benefits of the supplements i have been taking.

hugs,
pete

coloCan
Posts: 1835
Joined: Oct 2009

had any appetite at all and when i could eat/drink it was high calorie stuff or whatever i could stomach at that moment. I relied on stuff like Boost/Ensure/CVS brand-plus drinks for the bulk of my "nutrition"....Once i was able to get back into eating,after Tx ended, i'd like to think had i eaten like i do now, i'd probably never had had need for this site in the first place!!!!!

It just doesn't seem right to fast during chemo

As for German research,as another item i'd cited reported, Europe has risen to the forefront in CRC research yet i continually read stuff from everywhere,Asia, Africa,Canada,Australia,everywhere.....All this research, each focusing on one specific factor and still no cure or additional treatments since Avastin!!!!

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

this is a good summary for the positives and i have no plan to fast tomorrow, breakfast as normal. but i am visiting a fasting guru and have heaps to discuss.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/86/1/7.full

this is from the acs site

What is the evidence?
Available scientific evidence does not support fasting as a treatment for cancer. Some studies in animals have suggested that long-term calorie restriction -- that is, consuming less than one's normal amount of calories each day -- may slow the growth of certain tumors, but this is not the same as fasting. In fact, some animal studies have found that actual fasting in which no food is eaten several days could actually promote the growth of some tumors. No human studies on the effects of fasting on cancer have been published in the available medical literature.

SO AS I AM A BIT OF A RAT, I MIGHT WELL DO THE ADF protocol, but not straight away.
so ADF or CR, equally beneficial.

read, enjoy and decide, but relax, i am. No disputes here please friends. sincere thanks for everyones input, i always learn more when i throw out these posts. the warning on the acs link are valid and i accept. the potential from ajcn i can also accept.

hugs,
Pete

ps we play the game of survival our way, its our life after all.

i guess i appreciate everyones input, especially hals and blakes, as i know your not going to well(blake). thanks again everyone for reading/replying. in their own ways they demonstrate caring, which is the number one beneficial thing our board offers us. a caring community. i am so happy to be a part of it.

pps i can see a little irony here, again its nutrition based therapy, just in this case its the absence of nutrition. whatever i do it will be based on some science and hope and a prayer.

son of hal
Posts: 117
Joined: Mar 2011

Best of luck Pete. I'm sure you will find a successfull plan for yourself. You have the most determination of anyone here. Like you, I believe there is a needle in the haystack for beating cancer and you can only find it by looking. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.
CJ

wolfen's picture
wolfen
Posts: 1169
Joined: Apr 2009

You will never be a RAT. But you may be a little FISHY.LOL Just kidding. Enjoy your scuba diving, with or without food.

Luv Ya,

Wolfen

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3915
Joined: Nov 2010

kind words, but i think we all determined to live and love our lives, me no more than anyone one of us. granted i may try a few extra bits and pieces, because i feel blessed to have had these alternatives present themselves to me in ways that tempt me. i may have been a gambler in a past life.

yes, that lovelly NEEDLE, i hope we all find our needle and have peace, joy and love while looking. even hope, health and happiness fit in here as well.

hugs,
Pete

peterz54's picture
peterz54
Posts: 225
Joined: Feb 2012

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815756/

suggestive that keeping glucose down via fasting helps with outcome
http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/11/18/annonc.mdr540.short

more studies which suggest fasting may provide positive benifits for those on chemo
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=fasting+cancer&as_sdt=1%2C10&as_ylo=2000&as_vis=0

Phoebesnow
Posts: 447
Joined: Apr 2011

I never saw the tumour, he said it was on his shoulder. He lived on Oahu, came to Malibu with his wife and child. Divorced, supported his family setting up for trade shows. He lived at the beach. He was small and very thin, a short boarder. He says he starved the tumor, called it his own personal chemo, his name was kimo. He never saw a doctor. He is the most honorable person I know. He said it just made sense. He is still going 20+ years later. I don't think he had any other choice, but even if he did, I think he would have done it the same way,

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