What Is Offensive? we are just sharing in the hopes of helping others.
I told others I was taking the 'TC' combo - was happy with it - and felt it was the best way to go. It does not make me a "quasi-oncologist" when I share what I was told or what I think, nor am I misrepresenting my qualifications.
Of course, treatment is individualized. Everyone will be offered choices.
And each tumor DOES respond differently to the choices made. That is a fact beyond dispute. To say that I know how every single tumor would respond to 'TC' is something even research physicians would never claim to know.
There is absolutely no "one way to go". I was simply encouraging others if they were already offered a choice of doing this combo. When we are enthusiastic about what we are doing, it should make others think about what they are doing too, if they are less than enthusiastic.
There are many choices to be made in breast cancer treatment. I would not criticize someone who does 'TAC' - that is an individual choice to be made. But, I myself
am very happy not to take Adriamycin. To be free of this drug, and to still find
an effective protocol, is my own idea of happiness in terms of taking chemo.
And as chemo patients - we need all the success - tumor reduction - and "pathological complete response" we can muster. And positive attitudes.
Comments
-
Hi Ellen,lynn1950 said:Hello, Ellen. I did not
Hello, Ellen. I did not read your first post. I just want to say welcome and that I am glad that you feel good about your treatment. I wish you the very best. xoxoxox Lynn
I didn't read your
Hi Ellen,
I didn't read your first post either but nothing I read here ever offends me. I feel that knowledge is key and how can we get knowledge if it's only what we already believe in?
If we are so closed minded, we leave no room. All of us are different just as all our cancers are different and I for one, like to hear different opinions.
Hugs,
Wanda0 -
Let me quote from your original post
"Why take 3 drugs in an infusion cycle - when you could be dealing with 2 drugs which
taken together in an infusion cycle are equally effective, thereby avoiding unnecessary side effects?"
With all due respect for your "enthusiasm," some people take 3 drugs in an infusion cycle because their oncologist makes that recommendation. You might believe that "you are simply encouraging others" but you are in fact continuing to insult the intelligence of anyone who might disagree with you on the respective merits of TAC and TC.
If you truly believed there is absolutely no "one way to go," you would do better to spare the readers of this forum your personal opinion and leave them to discuss the matter with their oncologists.0 -
As a long-termer here (Geez! over 5 years...whew!)...
I try to stay away from offering advice on any of the clinical side....
I think a better approach to helping is to share your treatment (heaven knows I have dragged out my laundry list on many occasions, both here and on my other cancer's board), but make no recommendations as to what's better or not in general. It's better for you, but, for instance, I had Adriamycin and considered it to be the thing that turned the tide. Again, tho, I worked with my oncologist with this. Since not all breast cancer (or any cancer, for that matter) is the same, it's best left to the experts to decided what is appropriate or not.
I did not see your original post. And I'm sure you are just being enthusiastic on something that worked for you. That is welcomed here!!! We all love to dance with good news!!! But judging other people's treatment options goes a bit too over the line. I NEVER do!!! Even one gal on our colorectal board who eliminated her stage III with surgery and juicing, turning down the recommended chemo....she is one of my best friends!
So, that is my 2 cents worth....we are all different, with different treatments. We are here to offer support, but should avoid clinical discussions....just look what's happening with Avastin, for goodness sakes, and the experts are still fighting about it...
Hugs, Kathi0 -
"I am convinced this is the best way to go."Aortus said:Let me quote from your original post
"Why take 3 drugs in an infusion cycle - when you could be dealing with 2 drugs which
taken together in an infusion cycle are equally effective, thereby avoiding unnecessary side effects?"
With all due respect for your "enthusiasm," some people take 3 drugs in an infusion cycle because their oncologist makes that recommendation. You might believe that "you are simply encouraging others" but you are in fact continuing to insult the intelligence of anyone who might disagree with you on the respective merits of TAC and TC.
If you truly believed there is absolutely no "one way to go," you would do better to spare the readers of this forum your personal opinion and leave them to discuss the matter with their oncologists.
Well, I was in the process of quoting from your original post, Ellen, when I had to pause (thanks, Eefy). When I went back, here was my husband, quoting you. Are we married or what?? I have only the above quotation from your original post to add to his.
As for any damage the "A" in TAC may cause, my heart is strong and steady. The times when it may have faltered, our sisters here lent their strength and comfort and even love. So don't worry about any of us getting a different chemo from you. As long as our hearts are in the right place, we are good.0 -
It's how you said it
I didn't see your OP either but from the 2 quotes from it that are posted here, it would seem that it went a lot further than just stating what your treatments had been. Most/Many of us do indeed post what protocol was used with us and there is nothing wrong with that. BUT to advise on TX is another story.
OH, by the by, I'm IBC and was 63 when I did A/C a bit over a year ago, my heart has no problems at all. I'm riding NED.
Susan0 -
What hit me wrong . . .
Ellen,
I think what hit me wrong was the way you phrased your question (paraphrased), "Why [do this] when [it is unnecessary and will cause problems]? I'm sure you didn't mean this, but it comes across as if you are suggesting that those of us who made that very choice are kind of stupid for making that choice.
One thing that can really help when we are talking about treatments and offering tips or information is to use phrases like, "What worked for me" or "In my situation, we . . ." or simply, "My doctor and I decided . . . because the doctor believes . . ."
I was also disturbed about the claim that adriamycin is "unnecessary." That research is not complete, so we really cannot know that yet.
Hang in there, Ellen. Your best quality is your positive attitude, and your enthusiasm for your treatment choices is wonderful--just remember to share it in terms of "This is what I chose for these reasons" and offer those reasons in a "this is what my doctor said or this is what I read" kind of spirit.
Sandy0 -
That's nicely phrased, Lady Parvati,LadyParvati said:What hit me wrong . . .
Ellen,
I think what hit me wrong was the way you phrased your question (paraphrased), "Why [do this] when [it is unnecessary and will cause problems]? I'm sure you didn't mean this, but it comes across as if you are suggesting that those of us who made that very choice are kind of stupid for making that choice.
One thing that can really help when we are talking about treatments and offering tips or information is to use phrases like, "What worked for me" or "In my situation, we . . ." or simply, "My doctor and I decided . . . because the doctor believes . . ."
I was also disturbed about the claim that adriamycin is "unnecessary." That research is not complete, so we really cannot know that yet.
Hang in there, Ellen. Your best quality is your positive attitude, and your enthusiasm for your treatment choices is wonderful--just remember to share it in terms of "This is what I chose for these reasons" and offer those reasons in a "this is what my doctor said or this is what I read" kind of spirit.
Sandy
I'm gonna try to remember how you did that when I'm talking to family and friends.
xoxo
Victoria0 -
Didn't Read Your Original Post Either...
But nothing you said offends me. To me, it seems like you were just "thinking out loud" and asking questions. I get that. So...don't worry Ellen. Because of the nature of these boards and the fact that you can't talk face to face with people, I believe things get taken in ways they were never intended.
All I wanna say is always give benefit of the doubt that people have only good intentions.
As for those of you who feel "offended"...I'll probably offend you right know as I say "lighten up people"
Should I be ready for an onslaught of responses? :O
Blessings to ALL,
Sally0 -
for those who have not read ellen's original post here it is
"TC protocol for Treatment of TNBC
From what I've been told, the best treatment for TNBC is:
6 cycles Taxotere and Cytoxan (on a tri-weekly/every 3 week basis)
(as a form of "preoperative chemotherapy"/aka "neoadjuvant chemotherapy")
The reason for this is to avoid the unnecessary addition of the 'A" (adriamycin) to the
treatment protocol. Top research scientists have found it the protocol 'TC' is
equally as effective in treating TNBC as with the 'TAC' protocol - and this is good news!
Why take 3 drugs in an infusion cycle - when you could be dealing with 2 drugs which
taken together in an infusion cycle are equally effective, thereby avoiding
unnecessary side effects?
If you would like, I can provide the sources of my information. I am following this
protocol myself, have read comments from other b.c. patients who are doing same.
I am convinced this is the best way to go."
that was her post in full. i was offended by it, TC did not do me any good, in fact my cancer spread while taking that chemo combo. i was then subjected to another 12 weeks of chemo, TAC this time, which shrunk the cancer enough so i could have my mastectomy.
ellen's post wasn't the kind i am used to seeing on here, i felt it was judgmental and if we weren't doing the right chemo we are doomed. that is not what we are about here on this board. we offer what we know about what is right for OUR situation, and wish others luck with theirs. so glad she is convinced that is the best way to go, my team of doctors totally disagreed with her.
and what is her purpose in bringing it up again. her self-righteousness is what really bothers me.0 -
Heidisal314 said:Didn't Read Your Original Post Either...
But nothing you said offends me. To me, it seems like you were just "thinking out loud" and asking questions. I get that. So...don't worry Ellen. Because of the nature of these boards and the fact that you can't talk face to face with people, I believe things get taken in ways they were never intended.
All I wanna say is always give benefit of the doubt that people have only good intentions.
As for those of you who feel "offended"...I'll probably offend you right know as I say "lighten up people"
Should I be ready for an onslaught of responses? :O
Blessings to ALL,
Sally
I am ashamed and embarrassed that you had to see this thread. The one should have ended it. Cancer strikes the kind and compassionate as well as the vain and the shallow. Some become better human beings, and some worse, and some remain as flawed as they ever were.
Sally whoever you are, do not tell me or Heidi or anyone to "lighten up." And do not address us as "people." You may not trivialize my or anyone's treatment choices. And Ellen, if indeed there is an Ellen--I am wondering if this is a troll--leave it be. You've made your point; others have made theirs.
Heidi, you are magnificent. No one has more spirit or dignity or sense of right than you. Joe has probably already told you that in an historic church in Poland, a candle is burning for you tonight. But you know what? There's no lack of fire in you.
Blessing on us all, indeed.0 -
I love the visual of aheidijez said:for those who have not read ellen's original post here it is
"TC protocol for Treatment of TNBC
From what I've been told, the best treatment for TNBC is:
6 cycles Taxotere and Cytoxan (on a tri-weekly/every 3 week basis)
(as a form of "preoperative chemotherapy"/aka "neoadjuvant chemotherapy")
The reason for this is to avoid the unnecessary addition of the 'A" (adriamycin) to the
treatment protocol. Top research scientists have found it the protocol 'TC' is
equally as effective in treating TNBC as with the 'TAC' protocol - and this is good news!
Why take 3 drugs in an infusion cycle - when you could be dealing with 2 drugs which
taken together in an infusion cycle are equally effective, thereby avoiding
unnecessary side effects?
If you would like, I can provide the sources of my information. I am following this
protocol myself, have read comments from other b.c. patients who are doing same.
I am convinced this is the best way to go."
that was her post in full. i was offended by it, TC did not do me any good, in fact my cancer spread while taking that chemo combo. i was then subjected to another 12 weeks of chemo, TAC this time, which shrunk the cancer enough so i could have my mastectomy.
ellen's post wasn't the kind i am used to seeing on here, i felt it was judgmental and if we weren't doing the right chemo we are doomed. that is not what we are about here on this board. we offer what we know about what is right for OUR situation, and wish others luck with theirs. so glad she is convinced that is the best way to go, my team of doctors totally disagreed with her.
and what is her purpose in bringing it up again. her self-righteousness is what really bothers me.
I love the visual of a candle burning in Poland for you Heidi! This is such a special thing!0 -
Being tiredcarkris said:I love the visual of a
I love the visual of a candle burning in Poland for you Heidi! This is such a special thing!
Being tired sometimes is beneficial just have missed the fire.0 -
I love what you wrote Moopy!Moopy23 said:"I am convinced this is the best way to go."
Well, I was in the process of quoting from your original post, Ellen, when I had to pause (thanks, Eefy). When I went back, here was my husband, quoting you. Are we married or what?? I have only the above quotation from your original post to add to his.
As for any damage the "A" in TAC may cause, my heart is strong and steady. The times when it may have faltered, our sisters here lent their strength and comfort and even love. So don't worry about any of us getting a different chemo from you. As long as our hearts are in the right place, we are good.
I love what you wrote Moopy!0 -
Whomever I am???...Moopy23 said:Heidi
I am ashamed and embarrassed that you had to see this thread. The one should have ended it. Cancer strikes the kind and compassionate as well as the vain and the shallow. Some become better human beings, and some worse, and some remain as flawed as they ever were.
Sally whoever you are, do not tell me or Heidi or anyone to "lighten up." And do not address us as "people." You may not trivialize my or anyone's treatment choices. And Ellen, if indeed there is an Ellen--I am wondering if this is a troll--leave it be. You've made your point; others have made theirs.
Heidi, you are magnificent. No one has more spirit or dignity or sense of right than you. Joe has probably already told you that in an historic church in Poland, a candle is burning for you tonight. But you know what? There's no lack of fire in you.
Blessing on us all, indeed.
Um, that was nice. And how am I suppose to address both men and women other than "people". Ok...sorry, to all of you "ladies and gentleman"...does that suit you?
I can not control what people think. Just as you can't. You have no clue who I am, as I haven't a clue "who you are"...but I'm not here to judge anyone. And what I do think, if it's not "positive", I'll respectively keep to myself.
Blessings,
Sally0 -
I Didn't Find It Offensiveheidijez said:for those who have not read ellen's original post here it is
"TC protocol for Treatment of TNBC
From what I've been told, the best treatment for TNBC is:
6 cycles Taxotere and Cytoxan (on a tri-weekly/every 3 week basis)
(as a form of "preoperative chemotherapy"/aka "neoadjuvant chemotherapy")
The reason for this is to avoid the unnecessary addition of the 'A" (adriamycin) to the
treatment protocol. Top research scientists have found it the protocol 'TC' is
equally as effective in treating TNBC as with the 'TAC' protocol - and this is good news!
Why take 3 drugs in an infusion cycle - when you could be dealing with 2 drugs which
taken together in an infusion cycle are equally effective, thereby avoiding
unnecessary side effects?
If you would like, I can provide the sources of my information. I am following this
protocol myself, have read comments from other b.c. patients who are doing same.
I am convinced this is the best way to go."
that was her post in full. i was offended by it, TC did not do me any good, in fact my cancer spread while taking that chemo combo. i was then subjected to another 12 weeks of chemo, TAC this time, which shrunk the cancer enough so i could have my mastectomy.
ellen's post wasn't the kind i am used to seeing on here, i felt it was judgmental and if we weren't doing the right chemo we are doomed. that is not what we are about here on this board. we offer what we know about what is right for OUR situation, and wish others luck with theirs. so glad she is convinced that is the best way to go, my team of doctors totally disagreed with her.
and what is her purpose in bringing it up again. her self-righteousness is what really bothers me.
Once again, I just can't seem to find anything "offensive" in her post. In my opinion it just seems she's reposting information that she read and maybe trying to thoroughly convince herself that this is the choice she should make for HER. I don't think she is telling anyone else how or what to do for treatment. Everyone is different. Some drugs work wonders for some and don't do a thing for others. One should talk to their doctor about what treatment options would work best for them.
As for her "bringing it up again" I think she feels misunderstood and didn't intend to hurt anyone and wants to make that clear.
Peace & Blessings to All,
Sally0 -
What you said in your original postsal314 said:Whomever I am???...
Um, that was nice. And how am I suppose to address both men and women other than "people". Ok...sorry, to all of you "ladies and gentleman"...does that suit you?
I can not control what people think. Just as you can't. You have no clue who I am, as I haven't a clue "who you are"...but I'm not here to judge anyone. And what I do think, if it's not "positive", I'll respectively keep to myself.
Blessings,
Sally
"I'll probably offend you right know as I say "lighten up people""
You told individuals who were upset by someone else's flippant and amateurish dismissal of the TAC chemotherapy regimen to "lighten up." With a hypocritical smiley face tossed in at the end.
So much for keeping negative thoughts "respectively" to yourself.
No, I don't have a clue who you are. But your defense of someone who tries to bolster her self-confidence at the expense of others by saying "Why take 3 drugs in an infusion cycle - when you could be dealing with 2 drugs which taken together in an infusion cycle are equally effective, thereby avoiding unnecessary side effects?"... that tells anybody who can read all they need to know about you.0 -
Ellen
I don't think I ever saw your first post. I'm not offended by much that's posted here. I feel that we are all free to express what we've gone through and to share our experiences. I don't pretend to have any medical knowledge or to tell someone what might be best. I have received much helpful advice and encouragement on this site. I was not given a choice by my onc. He looked at my medical records and said this is what I need to take. I had my 6th and final round of Taxotere/Cytoxan last week. I have a couple of weeks off and will be starting radiation in January for 5 weeks. I had a bilateral mastectomy in June and my surgeon didn't think I would need chemo or rads but oncologists said I did. So, I'm doing whatever is necessary so I don't have a recurrence. BTW my sister who is a 8 year survivor has the same onc and 8 years ago she did get TAC. So, every one of us is different!
Char0 -
I'm sorry but I am notcahjah75 said:Ellen
I don't think I ever saw your first post. I'm not offended by much that's posted here. I feel that we are all free to express what we've gone through and to share our experiences. I don't pretend to have any medical knowledge or to tell someone what might be best. I have received much helpful advice and encouragement on this site. I was not given a choice by my onc. He looked at my medical records and said this is what I need to take. I had my 6th and final round of Taxotere/Cytoxan last week. I have a couple of weeks off and will be starting radiation in January for 5 weeks. I had a bilateral mastectomy in June and my surgeon didn't think I would need chemo or rads but oncologists said I did. So, I'm doing whatever is necessary so I don't have a recurrence. BTW my sister who is a 8 year survivor has the same onc and 8 years ago she did get TAC. So, every one of us is different!
Char
I'm sorry but I am not offended by the original post either and agree with Sally that she was trying to defend herself.
I think it's a shame that someone can't post something without being attacked.
This site is my safe haven for all my emotions, good or bad and I think some people are making way too much of this.0
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